[00:12] <bkerensa> yay
[00:12] <bkerensa> about page update
[01:46] <c_smith> bkerensa, which page update?
[01:46] <c_smith> :P
[01:47] <c_smith> also, E17 is nice.
[05:13] <cy1> anyone know of a program that can visualize a graph with both directed and undirected edges?
[16:53] <bkerensa> nathwill: so I guess Debian beering isactually today
[16:58]  * nathwill nods
[17:23] <bkerensa> nathwill: you going still?
[17:49] <nathwill> lolz
[18:15] <bkerensa_> nathwill: so I guess I will be going tonight
[18:15] <nathwill> :)
[18:16] <nathwill> good!
[18:17] <bkerensa_> TRAVISg: you coming tonight?
[18:17] <bkerensa_> :D
[18:17] <bkerensa_> I think it was actually znc being slow ;p
[21:37] <bkerensa_> sbeattie / bdmurray: You guys coming to beer tonight?
[21:37] <bkerensa_> or Ginger Ale :)
[21:37] <bdmurray> bkerensa_: not I
[21:38] <sbeattie> me either.
[21:38] <bkerensa> kk
[21:52] <c_smith> how's it going?
[21:53] <c_smith> anyone here mind giving me their take on my choice of replacement PC's (that will run Ubuntu)?
[21:57] <tgm4883> c_smith, only if you post it
[21:57] <c_smith> alright, let me get the links.
[21:57] <c_smith> it's a tie between http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246328
[21:57] <c_smith> and   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246219
[21:57] <c_smith> would like input on that.
[22:04] <bkerensa> c_smith: I thought you just got a new computer? :)
[22:04] <c_smith> nope, been working on it, though.
[22:05] <c_smith> bkerensa, hopefully I can work something out for that.
[22:05] <c_smith> still working on my beat up old laptop.
[22:10] <tgm4883> I'm always a fan of more ram, and I don't know the difference between the two processors
[22:10] <c_smith> alright.
[22:10] <tgm4883> Might want to try and find out the wireless chipset and such
[22:10] <tgm4883> other than that, slightly more expensive laptop is slightly better
[22:11] <c_smith> ok
[22:13] <c_smith> tgm4883, if the driver is listed as Broadcom, would it be safe to say it's one of those?
[22:16] <tgm4883> c_smith, I usually like to do a google search for "ubuntu <laptop>"
[22:16] <c_smith> alright.
[22:16] <tgm4883> then read recent stuff like http://thecomputersarewinning.com/post/Ubuntu-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U400/
[22:16] <tgm4883> and http://www.lagserv.net/wp/2011/12/wireless-and-ubuntu-linux-on-the-lenovo-ideapad-u400/
[22:17] <tgm4883> the Z575 seems to have more people with issues
[22:18] <c_smith> alright.
[22:18] <MaskilPDX> I have been only upgrading my kernel when it's released by Ubuntu.  I see that 3.5.2 is out. I am running 3.2.0-29-generic-pae
[22:19] <MaskilPDX> Should I manually upgrade, or just wait
[22:19] <tgm4883> MaskilPDX, do you need 3.5.2?
[22:20] <MaskilPDX> That's the question, is it something I need?
[22:21] <bkerensa> tgm4883: u coming to debian beering tonight? :)
[22:21] <tgm4883> bkerensa, nope
[22:21] <bkerensa> if u left now u could make it
[22:21] <tgm4883> MaskilPDX, nope
[22:21] <MaskilPDX> Cool
[22:21] <MaskilPDX> Thanks tgm4883
[22:22] <tgm4883> MaskilPDX, I mean, I can't 100% answer that for you, but you are going to get security updates with 3.2.x
[22:22] <tgm4883> eventually 3.5.2 will make it into precise, but that would probably just get new features/hardware support
[22:23] <nathwill> c_smith, i've heard some awkward things about the ideapads
[22:23] <MaskilPDX> ok, as to not break anything, I will wait.
[22:23] <bkerensa> I hope we see some backporting in 12.10
[22:23] <bkerensa> nathwill: I think slangasek has one...
[22:23] <tgm4883> bkerensa, backporting in 12.10, or from 12.10?
[22:23] <bkerensa> he has some kind of lenovo
[22:23] <MaskilPDX> I am cool with adding/removing apps, but messing with the kernal makes me nervious
[22:24] <bkerensa> tgm4883: from 13.04 to to 12.10
[22:24] <bkerensa> ^ he just messed with the kernel
[22:24] <bkerensa> :)
[22:24] <bkerensa> c_smith: Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZPgMeF4YZM
[22:24] <tgm4883> bkerensa, ah
[22:25] <tgm4883> bkerensa, IDK if they are going to do that for non-LTS releases
[22:25] <bkerensa> yeah
[22:25] <bkerensa> =/
[22:25] <bkerensa> well Kernels are going rolling I hear
[22:25] <bkerensa> :)
[22:25] <tgm4883> it seems like there is a LOT more effort to make running LTS only feasible
[22:27] <bkerensa> nathwill: Acct Mgr job is gone :P
[22:27] <nathwill> hrm
[22:28] <nathwill> there was another job i saw there that i thought you might be interested in
[22:28] <nathwill> lemme see if i can find it
[22:28] <bkerensa> nathwill: I would do the Cus Care III
[22:28] <bkerensa> :)
[22:30] <bkerensa> nathwill: well I will see you at Lucky Lab... I need to start getting ready to head out that way :)
[22:30] <nathwill> the DAM job looks good too
[22:30] <nathwill> alrighty
[22:32] <nathwill> tgm4883, how is running lts more effort?
[22:34] <c_smith> if I can't find a single issue on google about a particular laptop, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?
[22:34] <c_smith> about a particular laptop and ubuntu, that is.
[22:34] <nathwill> c_smith: neutral!
[22:34] <c_smith> alright.
[22:34] <slangasek> bkerensa: an ideapad?  God forbid
[22:34] <c_smith> right now I'm looking at an Acer Aspire
[22:41] <c_smith> in case anyone is curious, this is the Acer Aspire i'm talking about: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215411
[22:41] <bkerensa> nathwill: I am bringing some gadgets to giveaway :) a minipc and a arduino kit :)
[22:43] <nathwill> rofl
[22:43] <nathwill> no helicopter?
[22:48] <c_smith> think he's gone.
[23:01] <bkerensa> nathwill: you are going to hit so much traffic :P
[23:02] <nathwill> bkerensa, yes, i will
[23:02] <nathwill> but i don't get off until 6, so..
[23:02] <bkerensa> :)
[23:02] <bkerensa> oh
[23:02] <bkerensa> lol
[23:03] <bkerensa> nathwill: I dont know if you will make it at all then :)
[23:03] <bkerensa> lol
[23:03] <bkerensa> usually only lasts a hour or so
[23:03] <bkerensa> :)
[23:04] <nathwill> oh
[23:04] <nathwill> well
[23:04] <bkerensa> nathwill: I'm just jiving you :)
[23:04] <bkerensa> spreading a little FUD ;p
[23:04] <nathwill> boo
[23:10] <bkerensa> Looks like I wont be able to make it
[23:10] <bkerensa> >.<
[23:13] <bkerensa> great success :) found what I needed
[23:25] <nathwill> noticed we were missing a calagator event, so added: http://calagator.org/events/1250462771
[23:25] <nathwill> cloned from the last one
[23:28] <tgm4883> nathwill, if you buy hardware that isn't supported in the LTS
[23:28] <tgm4883> nathwill, if you want to upgrade an application and get new features in an LTS
[23:31] <nathwill> tgm4883, backports don't cover both of those?
[23:31] <tgm4883> nathwill, I don't think backports covers new hardware
[23:32] <nathwill> tgm4883, hardware enablement is explicitly blessed motive for SRU's...
[23:32] <nathwill> so that should be coming back
[23:32] <tgm4883> nathwill, new kernels are being backported to LTS releases. That is a new thing
[23:33] <tgm4883> backports also isn't enabled by default I think
[23:34] <nathwill> i just don't see where it's a lot more effort. (granted i'm generally running the alpha/beta because i'm twitchy like that)
[23:35] <nathwill> but from my understanding, those shouldn't be big issues in an lts
[23:37] <nathwill> the new software thing i think we talked about yesterday
[23:37] <nathwill> new apps rather, to be more specific
[23:40] <tgm4883> nathwill, compare 12.04 to 10.04
[23:40] <tgm4883> 10.04 was much harder to do that stuff in for an average user
[23:42] <tgm4883> nathwill, the next thing that needs to go is specifying which release you are targeting
[23:42] <tgm4883> I shouldn't need to build a source package 4 times just to support 12.04, 11.10, 11.04 and 10.04
[23:43] <tgm4883> nathwill, so what canonical has done is made it a lot easier for a user to run an LTS (with the advantages they have in 12.04 over what was available in 10.04), but they still have work to do to make it easier for a developer to get software into old versions
[23:44] <nathwill> tgm4883 i think you'd need statically linked libraries to avoid i
[23:44] <nathwill> t
[23:44] <tgm4883> nathwill, I don't think so, it would still build binaries for each distro release
[23:44] <tgm4883> but the source package shouldn't need to change much
[23:45] <tgm4883> of course it would require developers to actually know what they are doing
[23:46] <tgm4883> you just handle everything though dependencies. Instead of depending on packageX, you depend on packageX-VERSION (or better yet, >> packageX-VERSION)
[23:47] <tgm4883> then push it to build servers, and build servers figure out what distro releases have those packages and build for all
[23:47] <nathwill> :/ we're stepping out of my comfort zone, but i suspect that if it was as easy as you make it sound (just procedural issues), we wouldn't be where we are
[23:47] <tgm4883> nathwill, IDK about that, there is stuff in the debian spec that isn't even supported yet in debian
[23:48] <tgm4883> eg. specifying multiple distro releases in a debian/changelog file for building
[23:49] <tgm4883> slangasek could probably correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems that either A) you are right and this is much harder than it should be (which is possible, I could be missing something) or B) nobody has gone though the effort to actually do it yet
[23:49] <tgm4883> B is the case for the multi release spec
[23:51] <tgm4883> in any case, there is need to keep building stuff for 12.04 after 12.10 is released, but I don't think developers are going to bother doing that
[23:51] <nathwill> i think the variety of software available for multiple releases says otherwise :/
[23:54] <tgm4883> nathwill, is there much application development going on for 10.04 or 11.10 still?
[23:56] <nathwill> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-updates/firefox
[23:56] <tgm4883> nathwill, firefox doesn't count
[23:56] <nathwill> orly?
[23:57] <tgm4883> nathwill, anything with a MRE doesn't count
[23:57] <tgm4883> Anything that the security team backports security fixes for doesn't count
[23:58] <tgm4883> we're talking regular programs with new features
[23:58] <tgm4883> ala. libre office