[00:12] yay [00:12] about page update [01:46] bkerensa, which page update? [01:46] :P [01:47] also, E17 is nice. === zenlinux_ is now known as zenlinux [05:13] anyone know of a program that can visualize a graph with both directed and undirected edges? [16:53] nathwill: so I guess Debian beering isactually today [16:58] * nathwill nods [17:23] nathwill: you going still? [17:49] lolz [18:15] nathwill: so I guess I will be going tonight [18:15] :) [18:16] good! [18:17] TRAVISg: you coming tonight? [18:17] :D [18:17] I think it was actually znc being slow ;p === zenlinux_ is now known as zenlinux === Odenthaa is now known as Odysimus [21:37] sbeattie / bdmurray: You guys coming to beer tonight? [21:37] or Ginger Ale :) [21:37] bkerensa_: not I === bkerensa_ is now known as bkerensa [21:38] me either. [21:38] kk [21:52] how's it going? [21:53] anyone here mind giving me their take on my choice of replacement PC's (that will run Ubuntu)? [21:57] c_smith, only if you post it [21:57] alright, let me get the links. [21:57] it's a tie between http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246328 [21:57] and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246219 [21:57] would like input on that. [22:04] c_smith: I thought you just got a new computer? :) [22:04] nope, been working on it, though. [22:05] bkerensa, hopefully I can work something out for that. [22:05] still working on my beat up old laptop. [22:10] I'm always a fan of more ram, and I don't know the difference between the two processors [22:10] alright. [22:10] Might want to try and find out the wireless chipset and such [22:10] other than that, slightly more expensive laptop is slightly better [22:11] ok [22:13] tgm4883, if the driver is listed as Broadcom, would it be safe to say it's one of those? [22:16] c_smith, I usually like to do a google search for "ubuntu " [22:16] alright. [22:16] then read recent stuff like http://thecomputersarewinning.com/post/Ubuntu-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U400/ [22:16] and http://www.lagserv.net/wp/2011/12/wireless-and-ubuntu-linux-on-the-lenovo-ideapad-u400/ [22:17] the Z575 seems to have more people with issues [22:18] alright. [22:18] I have been only upgrading my kernel when it's released by Ubuntu. I see that 3.5.2 is out. I am running 3.2.0-29-generic-pae [22:19] Should I manually upgrade, or just wait [22:19] MaskilPDX, do you need 3.5.2? [22:20] That's the question, is it something I need? [22:21] tgm4883: u coming to debian beering tonight? :) [22:21] bkerensa, nope [22:21] if u left now u could make it [22:21] MaskilPDX, nope [22:21] Cool [22:21] Thanks tgm4883 [22:22] MaskilPDX, I mean, I can't 100% answer that for you, but you are going to get security updates with 3.2.x [22:22] eventually 3.5.2 will make it into precise, but that would probably just get new features/hardware support [22:23] c_smith, i've heard some awkward things about the ideapads [22:23] ok, as to not break anything, I will wait. [22:23] I hope we see some backporting in 12.10 [22:23] nathwill: I think slangasek has one... [22:23] bkerensa, backporting in 12.10, or from 12.10? [22:23] he has some kind of lenovo [22:23] I am cool with adding/removing apps, but messing with the kernal makes me nervious [22:24] tgm4883: from 13.04 to to 12.10 [22:24] ^ he just messed with the kernel [22:24] :) [22:24] c_smith: Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZPgMeF4YZM [22:24] bkerensa, ah [22:25] bkerensa, IDK if they are going to do that for non-LTS releases [22:25] yeah [22:25] =/ [22:25] well Kernels are going rolling I hear [22:25] :) [22:25] it seems like there is a LOT more effort to make running LTS only feasible [22:27] nathwill: Acct Mgr job is gone :P [22:27] hrm [22:28] there was another job i saw there that i thought you might be interested in [22:28] lemme see if i can find it [22:28] nathwill: I would do the Cus Care III [22:28] :) [22:30] nathwill: well I will see you at Lucky Lab... I need to start getting ready to head out that way :) [22:30] the DAM job looks good too [22:30] alrighty [22:32] tgm4883, how is running lts more effort? [22:34] if I can't find a single issue on google about a particular laptop, would that be a good thing or a bad thing? [22:34] about a particular laptop and ubuntu, that is. [22:34] c_smith: neutral! [22:34] alright. [22:34] bkerensa: an ideapad? God forbid [22:34] right now I'm looking at an Acer Aspire [22:41] in case anyone is curious, this is the Acer Aspire i'm talking about: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215411 [22:41] nathwill: I am bringing some gadgets to giveaway :) a minipc and a arduino kit :) [22:43] rofl [22:43] no helicopter? [22:48] think he's gone. [23:01] nathwill: you are going to hit so much traffic :P [23:02] bkerensa, yes, i will [23:02] but i don't get off until 6, so.. [23:02] :) [23:02] oh [23:02] lol [23:03] nathwill: I dont know if you will make it at all then :) [23:03] lol [23:03] usually only lasts a hour or so [23:03] :) [23:04] oh [23:04] well [23:04] nathwill: I'm just jiving you :) [23:04] spreading a little FUD ;p [23:04] boo [23:10] Looks like I wont be able to make it [23:10] >.< [23:13] great success :) found what I needed [23:25] noticed we were missing a calagator event, so added: http://calagator.org/events/1250462771 [23:25] cloned from the last one [23:28] nathwill, if you buy hardware that isn't supported in the LTS [23:28] nathwill, if you want to upgrade an application and get new features in an LTS [23:31] tgm4883, backports don't cover both of those? [23:31] nathwill, I don't think backports covers new hardware [23:32] tgm4883, hardware enablement is explicitly blessed motive for SRU's... [23:32] so that should be coming back [23:32] nathwill, new kernels are being backported to LTS releases. That is a new thing [23:33] backports also isn't enabled by default I think [23:34] i just don't see where it's a lot more effort. (granted i'm generally running the alpha/beta because i'm twitchy like that) [23:35] but from my understanding, those shouldn't be big issues in an lts [23:37] the new software thing i think we talked about yesterday [23:37] new apps rather, to be more specific [23:40] nathwill, compare 12.04 to 10.04 [23:40] 10.04 was much harder to do that stuff in for an average user [23:42] nathwill, the next thing that needs to go is specifying which release you are targeting [23:42] I shouldn't need to build a source package 4 times just to support 12.04, 11.10, 11.04 and 10.04 [23:43] nathwill, so what canonical has done is made it a lot easier for a user to run an LTS (with the advantages they have in 12.04 over what was available in 10.04), but they still have work to do to make it easier for a developer to get software into old versions [23:44] tgm4883 i think you'd need statically linked libraries to avoid i [23:44] t [23:44] nathwill, I don't think so, it would still build binaries for each distro release [23:44] but the source package shouldn't need to change much [23:45] of course it would require developers to actually know what they are doing [23:46] you just handle everything though dependencies. Instead of depending on packageX, you depend on packageX-VERSION (or better yet, >> packageX-VERSION) [23:47] then push it to build servers, and build servers figure out what distro releases have those packages and build for all [23:47] :/ we're stepping out of my comfort zone, but i suspect that if it was as easy as you make it sound (just procedural issues), we wouldn't be where we are [23:47] nathwill, IDK about that, there is stuff in the debian spec that isn't even supported yet in debian [23:48] eg. specifying multiple distro releases in a debian/changelog file for building [23:49] slangasek could probably correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems that either A) you are right and this is much harder than it should be (which is possible, I could be missing something) or B) nobody has gone though the effort to actually do it yet [23:49] B is the case for the multi release spec [23:51] in any case, there is need to keep building stuff for 12.04 after 12.10 is released, but I don't think developers are going to bother doing that [23:51] i think the variety of software available for multiple releases says otherwise :/ [23:54] nathwill, is there much application development going on for 10.04 or 11.10 still? [23:56] http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-updates/firefox [23:56] nathwill, firefox doesn't count [23:56] orly? [23:57] nathwill, anything with a MRE doesn't count [23:57] Anything that the security team backports security fixes for doesn't count [23:58] we're talking regular programs with new features [23:58] ala. libre office