[08:08] <ochosi> micahg: i'm pessimistic about "soonish", but we'll see..
[08:16] <ochosi> bbl
[10:25] <mr_pouit> knome: I supposed someone had been working on that blueprint and could give me .desktop files =]
[10:26] <mr_pouit>  indicator-application-gtk2 : Depends: indicator-application (= 0.5.0-0ubuntu1) but 12.10.0-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[10:26] <mr_pouit>  indicator-sound-gtk2 : Depends: indicator-sound (= 12.10.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:26] <mr_pouit> micahg: ^ dailies fail to build, I guess that's why gilir dropped the indicators
[11:06] <ochosi> knome: i see you finished the testcase yesterday. well done
[11:51] <knome> Unit193, can you send mr_pouit the .desktop files? :]
[13:17] <knome> got a reply from the guy running the linux-classes with xubuntu. he says they're excited about xubuntu and will happily cooperate
[13:17] <knome> pleia2, ^
[13:18] <knome> bluesabre, hey!
[13:18] <bluesabre> Hiya knome!
[13:19] <knome> bluesabre, PM ok? :)
[13:19] <smartboyhw> knome: Eventually, is there only you to test the upgrade?:)
[13:19] <smartboyhw> I mean 12.04.1
[13:19] <bluesabre> PM..?
[13:19] <knome> smartboyhw, yes, i did all the tests, and there was one test done by somebody else
[13:19] <bluesabre> (private message?)
[13:19] <knome> bluesabre, private message, /q
[13:20] <smartboyhw> :)
[13:32] <smartboyhw> o/ genii-around
[13:33] <knome> bluesabre, motion carried :)
[13:33] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008382.html
[13:33]  * genii-around makes more coffee
[13:33] <smartboyhw> knome: :)
[13:33] <bluesabre> Yay!
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Congrats bluesabre:)
[13:33] <knome> mr_pouit, next thing is to get him some push rights to the xubuntu-set... :)
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Just got the e-mail:)
[13:34] <GridCube> Congrats bluesabre :D
[13:37] <knome> bluesabre, i'm suggesting you'll apply for a ubuntu membership :)
[13:37] <knome> err, suggesting you to
[13:37] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: Yay, give me your wiki and I'm write a testimonial for you:)
[13:37] <knome> bluesabre, that should be a trivial task now...
[13:38] <bluesabre> knome: How do I apply for ubuntu membership?
[13:38] <knome> bluesabre, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[13:38] <bluesabre> Cool
[13:38] <bluesabre> I'll do that now :)
[13:38] <knome> bluesabre, basically, you write a wiki page of what you've done, ask for a few testimonials and go to a membership board meeting
[13:39] <knome> bluesabre, if they approve you, you get a ubuntu member IRC cloak as well as a "lpnick@ubuntu.com" email address
[13:39] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: You do have a wiki page?
[13:39] <bluesabre> Doesn't sound too painful.
[13:39] <knome> bluesabre, and, well, +1 for applying for sponsorship for UDS and all that stuff... :)
[13:39] <bluesabre> I don't have a wiki page yet.
[13:39] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: I'm not a member, and I do have one:)
[13:39] <bluesabre> Or if I do, I didn't make it :)
[13:40] <knome> bluesabre, lol :)
[13:43] <GridCube> i dont have an ubuntu membership :(
[13:43] <knome> GridCube, go get one tiger.
[13:43] <knome> :)
[13:43] <smartboyhw> GridCube: Get one:)
[13:43] <smartboyhw> I'll wait till Dec to get one, I'm new:)
[13:45] <GridCube> :P but i havent done much to ubuntu besides bother people on -devel channels
[13:45] <knome> GridCube, giving user support counts too
[13:45] <GridCube> :D that i do do
[13:46] <smartboyhw> GridCube: :D
[13:46] <knome> GridCube, and testing.
[13:46] <knome> GridCube, and bug triage-related stuff
[13:46] <knome> GridCube, and creating a FAQ
[13:47] <smartboyhw> GridCube, and documentation
[13:47] <GridCube> :P
[13:47] <GridCube> no, i didnt do documentation
[13:47] <smartboyhw> GridCube: That's enough to gain you a membership:)
[13:47] <GridCube> :D awesome
[13:47] <smartboyhw> :D
[13:47] <knome> GridCube, you can now, we're rewriting ;)
[13:47] <GridCube> i already have a wiki page tho :P
[13:47] <smartboyhw> knome: Can I have your wiki page?
[13:48] <knome> "have my wiki page" ?:P
[13:48] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/
[13:48] <knome> and my page for running for the XPL https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL
[13:49] <smartboyhw> What's XPL?
[13:49] <knome> xubuntu project lead
[13:49] <smartboyhw> Ah.
[13:50] <smartboyhw> Ow man, when will Ubuntu 11.10 finish install/
[13:52] <smartboyhw> knome: How long did astraljava did testing and QA for Xubuntu? Just want to know:)
[13:56] <knome> smartboyhw, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008242.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008247.html officially, but he was active before that, and that's why he was made the QA lead
[13:57] <smartboyhw> Wow.
[13:57] <knome> wow what
[13:57] <smartboyhw> knome: Wow on astraljava and your work:)
[13:58] <knome> thanks
[14:04] <bluesabre> Here's my wiki page now.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis
[14:05] <smartboyhw> That's quick:)
[14:05] <knome> i'll take the first lock.
[14:06] <smartboyhw> knome: You mean look?
[14:06] <knome> no, lock.
[14:06] <knome> i'm editing the page, and you can't. that's a lock.
[14:06] <smartboyhw> Oh
[14:06] <smartboyhw> BTW, added a testimonial already:)
[14:07] <bluesabre> Thanks smartboyhw
[14:14] <knome> smartboyhw, did you know that testimonials for these kind of things are usually given by senior community members to the junior members, or those applying to be one?
[14:14] <smartboyhw> :)
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Kidding: Someone write ME a testimonial:)
[14:15] <knome> smartboyhw, continue contributing to testing as you've done now, and i will some day.
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Thanks
[14:32] <elfy> anyone know what the state of the docs is at the moment - don't want to start duplicating effort
[14:32] <knome> state? :)
[14:32] <smartboyhw> Status.
[14:32] <knome> smartboyhw, i know
[14:32] <knome> elfy, in what sense?
[14:33] <knome> elfy, i believe people working with it are constantly sending their updates to the wiki, so it should be as it looks like :)
[14:33] <elfy> knome: :) in the - which one's are in need of work - has there been any sort of record kept about what's been done 
[14:33] <knome> the wiki serves us that
[14:33] <elfy> ok - so it's still - look and fix as you see things 
[14:33] <knome> yes, it will be that until we convert to docbook
[14:33] <elfy> okey doke
[14:34] <knome> and we will let you know once we do
[14:34] <knome> (not planned yet)
[14:34] <elfy> I don't want to start doing things someone else is half way through basically
[14:34] <knome> if you know about the internet stuff (how to connect/troubleshoot different ways), that would be good to get in shape
[14:35] <knome> eg. the "Internet and Networks" section under "Quick guide to default applications"
[14:35] <knome> (which is a bit weird place, but we can fix that later)
[14:35] <elfy> yea - I am not good at that stuff - I've never really had a need - but I will look at existing and see what I can do then
[14:35] <knome> ah, in that case probably look at something else
[14:35] <knome> this needs to be correct, since this documentation might be everything somebody has, because he can't connect to internet
[14:36] <knome> even i am not confident enough to go poking, yet
[14:36] <elfy> ok - 2 minutes and I will have a look at the new wiki stuff and come back 
[14:36] <knome> sure
[14:39] <elfy> knome - I'll take section 8, check section 11 and make a start on section 12 
[14:40] <knome> elfy, awesome
[14:40] <elfy> now - suspending/hibernating for instance - hibernate is disabled - so do we assume that the manual should ONLY deal with default setup 
[14:40] <knome> elfy, if you want, you can add a short notification at the start of those pages
[14:40] <elfy> yea - that makes sense 
[14:41] <knome> elfy, yeah. and i just looked at that page too; i don't know if it makes sense to basically say "if you have problems, file a bug or restart the computer"
[14:41] <elfy> lol
[14:42] <knome> so consider dropping that.. :P
[14:42] <elfy> :)
[14:43] <elfy> ok - so I have my little list of jobs then ... I assume that waht you are aiming at is not so much information someone would just think - what? I'm new - what does that mean? and enough to get them working and able to dig further elsewhere if they want 
[14:43] <knome> yes
[14:43] <elfy> excellent 
[14:43] <knome> we should link to applications' own docs as much as possible
[14:44] <knome> no reason to duplicate information and make our maintaining burden bigger
[14:44] <elfy> yep
[14:45] <knome> i'm hoping it is realistically possible to update the docs every release after this rewrite
[14:46] <elfy> yea - I would suggest that if that is the plan - then a doc somewhere with the index - so people can put name against things 
[14:46] <knome> well
[14:46] <knome> updating the docs every release after the rewrite should be such an easy thing that one person is able to do that
[14:46] <elfy> knome: if this set of docs is well written then 6 month release should be a piece of cake
[14:47] <elfy> yea - just got there :)
[14:47] <knome> exactly
[14:47] <knome> being relatively short helps too
[14:47] <elfy> yep
[14:47] <knome> doesn't look too big task either
[14:47] <smartboyhw> unless you got a big change:)
[14:48] <knome> smartboyhw, yes, but even then there isn't much to rewrite.
[14:48] <elfy> yea - big pile makes it easier to think - tomorrow perhaps, don't have the time now
[14:48] <elfy> talking of which - at some point one of the xubuntu.org pages could do with a little fiddle - who's best person to talk to about that?
[14:49] <knome> smartboyhw, think about rewriting one page of the changed feature versus rewriting 10 pages of the changed feature
[14:49] <knome> elfy, tell me which page
[14:49] <knome> elfy, i am, or pleia2 
[14:49] <elfy> http://xubuntu.org/help/
[14:49] <smartboyhw> knome: :)
[14:49] <knome> elfy, yeah, do you mean just to include the offline docs, or something else too?
[14:50] <elfy> online forums etc the forum bit knome - at the moment says "mention in your post that you are using Xubuntu." can be amended 
[14:50] <elfy> tell them to use the Tag system - there are xfce and Xubuntu tags available 
[14:51] <knome> elfy, would you be willing to do the rewrite part? if yes, just send me email with the new text and i'll update
[14:51] <elfy> ok - I will do that and e-maill you it 
[14:52] <elfy> right - I shall get on with something now then 
[14:52] <knome> e thanks :)
[14:52] <knome> +lfy,
[14:52] <elfy> welcome k
[14:52] <elfy> nome
[14:52] <knome> ;)
[14:52] <elfy> :)
[14:53] <knome> meh, i promised my wife to get out of the house today
[14:53] <elfy> best get a move on then lol 
[14:53] <knome> haha
[14:54] <knome> soon...
[14:54] <knome> she's at work, so no schedule :P just promised to go out... ;)
[14:54] <elfy> :) I have just delivered little one to her mum - have whole weekend of peace 
[14:54] <knome> could take the garbage out and go for a walk
[14:54] <knome> congrats
[14:55]  * knome slept almost until 15
[14:55] <knome> have been awake for about three hours now :P
[14:55] <elfy> blimey - I've had a mad couple of days tbh - not sure where I was at all
[14:55] <knome> haha
[15:13] <smartboyhw> knome: Is astraljava on holiday these days?
[15:14] <knome> smartboyhw, no, i'm sure he's working like a mad
[15:14] <smartboyhw> knome: OK, wanted to ask him about a upgrade testcase in 12.10 for Ubuntu Studio:)
[15:14] <knome> good luck in getting a hold of him
[15:14] <smartboyhw> knome: Am I wrong, or are you a Testcase Admin?
[15:14] <knome> i am
[15:15] <smartboyhw> I am just two days ago:)
[15:19] <knome> bluesabre, you probably want to mention menulibre and any postponed projects for Q too in your wiki page
[15:21] <sj> Hi, I just joined the xubuntu-devel mailing list and had a quick look through the launchpad bug list, I was wondering if there's a wiki page to get started fixing bugs
[15:22] <sj> Or if anyone would like to mentor me
[15:22] <smartboyhw> You mean http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/?
[15:22] <knome> sj, you might want to hang around at this channel for a while to get a grasp how the community works :)
[15:23] <knome> sj, there's no specific list of bugs the xubuntu team works on, but any package with xubuntu or xfce in their name are a good start
[15:23] <sj> knome yeah certainly. smartboyhw, I've read all the related pages from there.
[15:23] <sj> knome: ok, thanks
[15:23] <smartboyhw> knome: Been looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders I thought of one thing: Isn't elfy the doc lead?
[15:24] <knome> smartboyhw, nope, the page is current
[15:24] <smartboyhw> But there's no doc lead there...
[15:24] <knome> smartboyhw, that's true
[15:25] <smartboyhw> Now I'm confused??
[15:25] <knome> the whole community just takes care of that
[15:26] <bluesabre> knome, Yeah, I'm going to add MenuLibre and the other things :)
[15:26] <smartboyhw> Oh
[15:27] <knome> bluesabre, is the music on the menulibre video yours?
[15:27] <bluesabre> knome, no, it's using YouTube's audio swap with CC-A music I believe
[15:28] <knome> bluesabre, mmhmm :) nice choice though
[15:28] <bluesabre> Usually I find CC-SA music on my own and add it, but I was lazy that day :D
[15:28] <bluesabre> Thanks
[15:41] <elfy> smartboyhw: I am nothing to do with xubuntu - other than hanging about and helping where and when I can 
[15:41] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:52] <knome> jjfrv8, read your comments on the strategy document yesterday and most of them are applied as is to strategydoc.knome.fi
[15:52] <knome> jjfrv8, they were really helpful, thanks!
[15:53] <jjfrv8> Great.  Glad I could contribute something.  Thanks.
[15:54] <knome> of course. looking forward to your contributions to the docs if you are still up to it :)
[15:54] <jjfrv8> Yup.  I'm still plugging away as we speak.
[15:55] <knome> great
[15:58] <micahg> mr_pouit: re dailies, yeah, lubuntu had the same issue, seems to me that those dependencies should be >= rather than = or something's fishy there
[16:12] <micahg> \o/ alternates not oversized and desktop images down to 717/733
[16:12] <knome> yay
[16:12] <knome> but they are wondering if it's a bug :P
[18:41] <Unit193> knome: Sure I could, anything other than the plain Xfce tag?  I haven't seen categories in the settings manager. >_>
[18:41] <Unit193> Oh, and I'm going to be "social" this evening, so won't be on.
[18:50] <knome> Unit193, can you elaborate with mr_pouit? he'll let you know what he needs, if anything. :)
[18:51] <Unit193> He's scary. :3  But alrighty.  When is that needed in at the latest?
[18:55] <knome> UIF
[19:11] <knome> wait, ubuntu is going to drop alternative?
[19:12] <holstein> interesting...
[19:12] <knome> or alternate
[19:12] <knome> :P
[19:12] <knome> yeah.
[19:17] <Unit193> What? Well that's not good.
[19:22] <holstein> seems like there would be community support for one.. maybe just one minimal "netinstall" kind of alternate iso
[19:24] <knome> well there is the minimal cd already!
[19:24] <knome> !minimal
[19:48]  * pleia2 frowns at the wiki
[19:48] <pleia2> no worky
[19:48] <knome> meh
[19:48] <knome> how's the about page?
[19:49] <pleia2> http://princessleia.com/temp/about-xubuntu.txt
[19:50] <pleia2> that's what I would have put in the wiki ;)
[19:50] <pleia2> it merges the three, I think I got all the main points
[19:50] <knome> why wiki?
[19:50] <knome> why not the website
[19:50] <knome> and remove the wikipage
[19:50] <knome> wasn't that our idea anyway
[19:50] <knome> silly girl
[19:50] <pleia2> I am putting it on the wiki for review and edits
[19:50] <pleia2> eventually the canonical one will be xubuntu.org/about
[19:50] <pleia2> still drafting though :)
[19:51] <knome> oh, the *canonical* one
[19:51]  * knome giggles
[19:51] <pleia2> littlt c
[19:51] <pleia2> little too
[19:51] <knome> i didn't know they were writing their own version too
[19:51] <knome> yeah yeah
[19:51] <knome> :P
[19:53] <knome> i'm a bit against listing the application "categories"
[19:53] <pleia2> where?
[19:53] <knome> "...desktop offering that includes a variety of useful applications for every day use."
[19:53] <knome> last paragraph, second sentence
[19:53] <pleia2> ah
[19:54] <pleia2> ok, can refresh
[19:54] <knome> another one i'm thinking is if we want to mention Unity
[19:54] <pleia2> also need to sort out pronouns, I think sometimes it's written as if we-the-project-members are writing it, and sometimes it's a bit more removed
[19:55] <pleia2> "Xubuntu is" "We provide"
[19:55] <pleia2> I'm leaning toward "Xubuntu is" "Xubuntu provides"
[19:55] <knome> "...operating system. Xubuntu uses the Xfce DE and comes with a defaul set of..."
[19:55] <knome> -typos
[19:56] <knome> meh
[19:56] <knome> http://www.typewith.me/p/x_about
[19:56] <pleia2> :)
[19:57] <knome> marking links with _link text_ for better readability
[19:57] <pleia2> k
[19:58] <knome> are we repeating ourselves?
[19:58] <pleia2> in the last paragraph?
[19:58] <knome> see the blue dots
[19:59] <pleia2> there
[19:59] <knome> yeah bot
[19:59] <knome> but
[19:59] <pleia2> oh that
[19:59] <knome> read the first <p>
[19:59] <pleia2> yeah
[20:04] <knome> familiar/conservative?
[20:04] <pleia2> familiar is too vague (familar to what?)
[20:05] <knome> heh
[20:05] <knome> conservative isn't without problems either
[20:05] <pleia2> yeah
[20:06] <pleia2> I think what we're trying to communicate easy, not hard to learn
[20:06] <knome> eh, tautology
[20:06] <knome> "immediately ready to use"
[20:07] <knome> wait, what?
[20:07] <knome> :D
[20:07] <pleia2> ready to use
[20:07] <pleia2> that's good
[20:07] <knome> that's meh
[20:07] <knome> :D
[20:07] <knome> we use that in the sentence before
[20:07] <pleia2> wait, we say ready to use just before that
[20:07] <knome> yeah
[20:07] <knome> we said "immediately ready to use"
[20:07] <knome> :P
[20:07] <pleia2> there
[20:08] <knome> i'd say elegant, but
[20:08] <knome> ;)
[20:08] <pleia2> hehe
[20:08] <knome> what about simple/straightforward?
[20:08] <pleia2> oh right, what do we say in strat doc
[20:08] <pleia2> yeah, straightforward
[20:08] <knome> we need to change that too
[20:08] <Sysi> put intuitive somewhere so we can start telling people how we're not copying os x because of unity
[20:08] <knome> :P
[20:09] <knome> i'm not sure if that belongs to the about page :P
[20:09] <pleia2> i hate inuitive
[20:09] <pleia2> if you read the unity list, you quickly learn that it means nothing :)
[20:10] <pleia2> (also, don't read the unity list if you have better things to do, like watching tv)
[20:11] <GridCube> or picking your nose
[20:11] <knome> pleia2, ha! it just struck me
[20:11] <knome> pleia2, read the mission statement and the target page at strategy document
[20:12] <knome> whenever you hit "elegant", think "straightforward"
[20:12] <pleia2> straightforward and ease of use are very similar
[20:12] <knome> yes
[20:13] <knome> but by straightforward, i mean: keeps out of the way
[20:13] <pleia2> I think by elegant we were meaning we think it's pretty
[20:13] <pleia2> or similarly nice
[20:13] <knome> that too, partly
[20:13] <knome> but polished is there too
[20:13] <pleia2> yeah
[20:13] <knome> i'll fix that
[20:13] <pleia2> like, we're saying it's easy and not yucky to look at
[20:14] <pleia2> (not 2nd choice for refugees :))
[20:14] <knome> " This is why Xubuntu should be easy to use and have an elegant appearance that doesn't get in the way. "
[20:14] <knome> in that, just remove 'elegant'
[20:14] <knome> works?
[20:15] <pleia2> I dunno, I'm in the "I like elegant" camp :)
[20:15] <pleia2> I think it communicates what I want it to say
[20:15] <knome> that's under " Focus 1: Usability "
[20:15] <knome> maybe we can remove it there
[20:15] <pleia2> fair enough
[20:15] <knome> i like elegance too
[20:16] <knome> the several nuances its telling are the reason why i picked it
[20:16] <pleia2> yeah
[20:18] <knome> http://strategydoc.knome.fi/target/
[20:19] <pleia2> good
[20:19] <knome> " It is important for us to provide a polished and unified product that is ready for our users. "
[20:19] <knome> does that sentence suck a bit?
[20:19] <pleia2> nah
[20:19] <knome> ok.
[20:20] <knome> ...ready for end-users ?
[20:20] <knome> dunno.
[20:20] <knome> we say so in the mission statement
[20:20] <knome> Xubuntu delivers a polished and unified product ready for end-users.
[20:20] <knome> ^MS
[20:20] <pleia2> sure
[20:21] <knome> with these changes, i'm ready to go public.
[20:21] <pleia2> \o/
[20:38] <mr_pouit> Unit193: xfce4-settings-manager 4.10 has categories
[20:39] <mr_pouit> Personal/Hw/System, like you wrote on the wiki page
[20:40] <mr_pouit> Unit193: just add the .desktop filename for each item, that's good enough for me :P
[20:42] <mr_pouit> knome: anyway, that's related to the topic "do we want to drop the submenu and put everything in xfce4-settings-manager?" :)
[20:42] <knome> :)
[20:43] <Unit193> mr_pouit: I'll remove the compiz one and add all the ones I have in info, sound cool?  (I don't have compiz, or a couple others as they were ideas, but I may find them)
[20:44] <knome> mr_pouit, the new SD is public ;)
[20:44] <mr_pouit> yep, thanks (I only need the filename to add it to the settings manager, e.g. users.desktop :>)
[20:44] <mr_pouit> knome: SD, as in Steve Dodier? :P
[20:44]  * mr_pouit runs
[20:44] <knome> haha
[20:45] <knome> i wish i could make new steves
[20:45] <knome> ;)