[15:02] <ailo> holstein: I'm a little curious why you always seem to want to make a point to new users that they might not need low latency capability.
[15:02] <ailo> I'd say it's only a small amount of musicians who'd not need it
[15:02] <smartboyhw> ailo: Maybe that he just likes the generic one:)
[15:03] <ailo> smartboyhw: Please. I wasn't asking you. And that's not why.
[15:03] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:04] <ailo> holstein: At least at some point, you need it
[15:06] <ailo> holstein: We can't help that that problem is as complicated as it is.
[15:06] <ailo> holstein: The easy answer to people is always, install Ubuntu Studio, right?
[15:07] <ailo> holstein: even at jack default settings, you might get xruns, if you're not running jack in realtime mode
[15:08] <ailo> I mean, qjackctl default settings
[15:08] <ailo> Which is almost the same thing
[15:09] <len-dt> ailo, remember he also suggests jack is not always needed either.
[15:09] <ailo> I don't believe that to be true for musicians, who will be using software that depend on jack
[15:09] <len-dt> Yes.
[15:10] <smartboyhw> len-dt: The main problems in the Ubuntu Studio section in Ubuntu Forums mainly involve Jack, that shows people using Ubuntu Studio do need Jack.
[15:11] <len-dt> He has spent a lot of time helping people though and I think has found people who want to record some stereo sounds and think they need something really special rather than pulse and audacity.
[15:13] <len-dt> I see that when he is talking to people on the forum who have trouble, he is trying to find out what they are trying to do. If they are doing something that requires special SW.
[15:14] <len-dt> Trying to find the right tools to use match.
[15:14] <len-dt> look at what he uses personally... it is low lat or RT.
[15:16] <ailo> It's a little hard to double guess what people are after. If you don't ask them about it first.
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Actually, then, a question: Is it possible for me NOW to install the generic kernel?
[15:16] <len-dt> yup
[15:16] <ailo> But, if someone says "full music production", you kind of anticipate that this person will be using jack software, and requires a reliable platform
[15:17] <len-dt> yes to that too
[15:17] <smartboyhw> Hmm, let me go and install a generic kernel and see if there's any diff:)
[15:18] <ailo> holstein: I think you've done an awesome effort helping people out in general. I've just seen this tendency from you lately, that I guess is because of what len said - that often people are looking to only do one thing, which they don't need jack for
[15:19] <len-dt> however, if the person's understanding of production is that they have never done any... having to learn ardour and jack and all the stuff that goes with it be fore they record _anything_ is probably not the best starting point.
[15:20] <ailo> Good point
[15:20] <len-dt> maybe recording the bands live gigs is a better start.... pulse and audacity
[15:20] <len-dt> stereo off the board.
[15:21] <ailo> I would still recommend for someone to learn the tools they are going to use, nevertheless
[15:21] <ailo> If you need multitrack recording/mixing, you need to learn how to use a DAW
[15:21] <len-dt> yes
[15:21] <ailo> jack is a separate issue though
[15:21] <ailo> You can use Ardour with alsa
[15:22] <ailo> But turning jack on is not that complicated after all
[15:22] <ailo> You can even let Ardour do it
[15:22] <smartboyhw> ailo: I do agree, strangely those guys in Ubuntu Forums seemed perplexed...
[15:22] <ailo> smartboyhw: I don't think turning jack on is the big problem
[15:23] <smartboyhw> ailo: I said I don't think it is an problem, I said those guys in Ubuntu Forums has...
[15:23] <len-dt> ailo, routing seems to be an issue for some though.
[15:24] <ailo> len-dt: To Ardour channels, or in general?
[15:24] <len-dt> For those of use who have played with recording to tape, jack is wonderful
[15:25] <ailo> len-dt: I mean, if you're using routing with jack for other things, then there's no reason not to learn how that works
[15:25] <len-dt> lots of people just getting into audio now are from the it just works set.
[15:25] <smartboyhw> Hmm, a LOL thing: When I look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialPrecise it's still not yet filled in. Real weird since it's already 12.04.1:)
[15:26] <ailo> I lied about ardour starting jack
[15:26] <ailo> Maybe A3. Some software will do it
[15:26] <ailo> smartboyhw: Maybe you can do it?
[15:26] <ailo> smartboyhw: How's your documentation work coming along?
[15:27] <smartboyhw> ailo: What? I am not reponsible for artwork. On the documentation, I'm better free after coming Wednesday, and I will hand it in around Sat or Sun:)
[15:27] <len-dt> Of the linux music I have heard probably 75% of it is totally electronic... all synth. Many people seem to be looking for something more like LMMS
[15:28] <ailo> smartboyhw: Ḯ'm just making a point that this team is not big, and LOLing at unfinished work is not going to help finish it
[15:28] <smartboyhw> Uh oh.
[15:28] <ailo> smartboyhw: So, if you feel something needs to be done, and no one's doing it, you can always pick it up yourself
[15:28] <smartboyhw> ailo: But where do I find the artwork?
[15:28] <ailo> smartboyhw: Don't ask me. I don't care about that page
[15:28] <knome> smartboyhw, if there is no artwork in the wiki, there is no artwork at all
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Uh oh.
[15:29] <knome> feel free to contribute, as ailo said.
[15:29] <ailo> smartboyhw: Also, I'm reorganizing the wiki later this fall
[15:29] <smartboyhw> ailo: Really? How?
[15:30] <ailo> smartboyhw: It's in the blueprints
[15:30] <smartboyhw> Uh oh, give me the blueprint link again:)
[15:30] <knome> smartboyhw, can you find something yourself?
[15:30] <ailo> smartboyhw: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-quantal-flavor-ubuntustudio
[15:30] <smartboyhw> knome: Sorry.
[15:31] <knome> smartboyhw, it's not helpful to ask others to fetch you everything and waste their time
[15:32] <smartboyhw> knome: Again, I'm sorry. ailo: OK, I read the blueprint about documentation, but then there's really a lot of TODOs...
[15:33] <len-dt> smartboyhw, yes
[15:33] <knome> smartboyhw, that's how things are when somebody hasn't seriously started working on them.
[15:33] <len-dt> pick one with no name beside it that interests you and go for it
[15:34] <ailo> He's already working on one thing
[15:34] <smartboyhw> len-dt: Almost all items has names:)
[15:34] <smartboyhw> Let me write back my publishing documentation down:)
[15:37] <len-dt> smartboyhw, in your testing of 12.10 ISOs have you noticed scroll bars on the install slideshow?
[15:37] <smartboyhw> len-dt: Yep, new thing in ubiquity, I think
[15:38] <len-dt> they showed up in 12.04, but I personally have not seen scroll bars on any test install I have done.
[15:39] <smartboyhw> Uh oh.
[15:39] <len-dt> ^^^  for about a month or two
[15:39] <knome> len-dt, i saw them when i installed xubuntu on my laptop
[15:39] <knome> len-dt, i'm going to tweak the xubuntu slideshow for Q though
[15:39] <len-dt> this is a good thingg
[15:39] <knome> len-dt, but still don't know what causes that...
[15:39] <smartboyhw> I saw them in Ubuntu Desktop too.
[15:40] <knome> len-dt, maybe cut the images to exact sizes, but i'm not sure how that relates, because xubuntu had them too even if the images were cut
[15:40] <len-dt> I was thinking that upstream had fixed it because I haven't seen it for a while.
[15:40] <len-dt> even testing 12.04.1, but I do get it on the original 12.04
[15:41] <len-dt> when installing from live... looking at the main menu made them vanish
[15:42] <ailo> I removed myself from some of the tasks. Don't even remember putting myself on them
[15:42] <len-dt> knome, when was the last date you installed a xubuntu ISO
[15:43] <knome> len-dt, it's not too long ago
[15:43] <knome> len-dt, but the last time i saw them was when installing my laptop, start of this month
[15:43] <ailo> smartboyhw: I would recommend you subscribe to the blueprints that you are interested in
[15:43] <len-dt> 12.10 or 12.04?
[15:43] <smartboyhw> Wait, I will subscribe them now:
[15:43] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:43] <knome> len-dt, 12.04
[15:44] <knome> len-dt, maybe it's fixed. i don't know. haven't done too many 12.10 tests yet
[15:45] <len-dt> Ya, it was a problem there. I was just wondering because there is a blueprint item for that I was hoping to make DONE
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Wait, I do see a fix scroll bar in ubiquity slide show item in the liveDVD blueprint
[15:45] <len-dt> Yes smartboyhw 
[15:45] <smartboyhw> len-dt: Sorry, I pressed enter a second after you
[15:46] <len-dt> There have been a few things to fix that got fixed upstream.
[15:47] <len-dt> As I said I haven't seen them for a while, so they may have been fixed. It is something all our alpha/beta tests should look for.
[15:48] <smartboyhw> OK.
[15:53] <smartboyhw> BTW, I think I will write a testcase soon for upgrading Ubuntu Studio, astraljava disabled it due to DE change, I think we can re-enable it for 12.10/
[16:02] <smartboyhw> len-dt: I think I'll wait for a new build of Ubuntu Studio Quantal to test to see if scrollbars exist. Seems like there's build errors these days:(
[16:03] <len-dt> Yes. 
[16:04] <smartboyhw> Excuse me, big bug: How come when I click "Help" in Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 Firefox says it can't find it? I am reporting this:(
[16:05] <len-dt> It may be because we don't include ubuntu-docs.
[16:05] <smartboyhw> True. Then what should we do? I'll report the bug now.
[16:06] <len-dt> It is fixed in 12.10
[16:06] <smartboyhw> Wait, what is this package named? I mean the help one.
[16:07] <len-dt> smartboyhw, I think you mean the help icon on the main menu?
[16:07] <smartboyhw> Yes
[16:07] <len-dt> That is a different issue, it is fixed in 12.10 already
[16:07] <smartboyhw> I know, then should I still report it?
[16:09] <len-dt> No,  I don't think so. I did do a patch of the file involved forr 12.04, but interest in including it was not there
[16:10] <len-dt> It seemed that fixing it in 12.10 was acceptale.
[16:11] <len-dt> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio.precise
[16:20] <smartboyhw> len-dt: I'm seriously wondering: Maybe you didn't use an Launchpad account to do the patch?
[16:20] <smartboyhw> Because I looked at the revisions part, and it sounds like you're not using an Launchpad account to upload the patch.
[16:21] <knome> smartboyhw, seriously, that's the least of the worries. he HAD to use a launchpad account to be able to upload the branch.
[16:21] <smartboyhw> Hmm, weird.
[16:22] <knome> len-dt, 'bzr launchpad-login len-ovenwerks'
[16:22] <smartboyhw> But why I can't even click on his link to his Launchpad profile in the Revisions part?
[16:23] <knome> smartboyhw, because the launchpad integration isn't working perfectly.
[16:23] <smartboyhw> len-dt: Use 'bzr launchpad-login' first to check if you are using launchpad.
[16:23] <smartboyhw> knome: Uh oh, that's why
[16:23] <knome> smartboyhw, but please, stop wasting peoples' time. he was able to push, so what if his nick isn't linked?
[16:23] <smartboyhw> Oh.
[16:24] <knome> thanks for understanding
[16:24] <smartboyhw> Sorry again knome. :(
[23:14] <holstein> ailo: i dont know that you do need lowlatency
[23:14] <holstein> sometimes i do sand sometimes i dont
[23:15] <holstein> i feel like its a waste of time for me to show someone, and for someone to care about how to get lowlatency for 90% of what we all do
[23:15] <holstein> its really just live soft synths and live effects that need "realtime" ish latency
[23:15] <holstein> other than than, its a non-issue
[23:17] <holstein> ailo: i feel like the out-of-the-box config is something we all have thought long and hard about, and its good for most tasks