[05:42] <davecheney> hello
[05:42] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1038296/comments/5
[05:42] <davecheney> ^ tricky one to chase down
[05:57] <fwereade_> davecheney, heyhey
[05:58] <fwereade_> davecheney, ahh, well caught
[05:59] <davecheney> fixing it might be harder
[05:59] <davecheney> i've just proposed a small patch that adds the changes to the test to get that debugging
[06:00] <davecheney> this will have to be fixed sharpish, because while it happens infreqently in dummy
[06:00] <davecheney> the race will happen almost 100% of the time on ec2
[06:03] <mramm> ouch!
[06:04] <davecheney> actually I shold test that before throwing off wild assertions
[06:04] <TheMue> morning
[06:04] <davecheney> fscking launchpad, why can't I add a bug from the milestone screen !!
[06:06] <TheMue> davecheney: *lol* e'body loves this tool
[06:06] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1042066
[06:06] <davecheney> ^ thoughts
[06:11] <TheMue> davecheney: sounds reasonable. but i would like it configurable
[06:11] <TheMue> davecheney: one mode workes like today, to test functionality
[06:12] <TheMue> davecheney: and the other one more randomly to behave like in the wild
[06:12] <davecheney> TheMue: sure, we can do that
[06:15] <davecheney> shit, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1038296/comments/6
[06:15] <davecheney> turns out, our recovery logic works, but this isn't awesome
[06:44] <mramm> Well, it's almost 3am here, so I'm going to crash for a bit, see you all in the morning
[06:46] <TheMue> cu, and have a good night
[08:12] <davecheney> right - that is enough bugs logged for tonight
[08:12] <davecheney> gotta get some sleep so I can fix 'em tomorrowq
[08:13] <TheMue> davecheney: enjoy your evening
[12:44] <niemeyer> Hello all
[12:58] <TheMue> niemeyer: hiya
[13:01] <niemeyer> TheMue: Yo
[13:08] <niemeyer> fwereade_: ping
[13:08] <fwereade_> niemeyer, pong
[13:08] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yo
[13:09] <fwereade_> niemeyer, sorry I missed you on friday
[13:09] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Oh, n[p
[13:29] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Heya
[13:29] <rogpeppe> yo!
[13:29] <rogpeppe> public holiday today BTW, i'm not here :-)
[13:29] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Just reviewed the test refactoring branch.. nice stuff!
[13:30] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Ah, cool :-)
[13:30] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: cool, thanks
[13:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: did you think of a neater way to do what i was trying to do with gocheck?
[13:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i think the reassurance it gives is very useful - it's so easy to break things in subtle ways.
[13:32] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Agreed re. reassurance, and no I haven't looked yet
[13:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: np
[13:46] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Is it a holiday for you as well?
[13:46] <niemeyer> mramm: Morning
[13:56] <mramm> niemeyer: Morning
[14:28] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: am spending the afternoon putting all our wedding photos online, and wondering about using juju to host it, for the crack - do you know of any decent open source photo website s/w?
[14:30] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Neat!
[14:30] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I used to use Gallery for that
[14:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: http://gallery.menalto.com/
[14:32] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: cheers! not entirely sure whether using juju is a good idea, as no storage management yet... we'll see.
[14:32] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It's somewhat easy to workaround that
[14:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It's actually neat as it forces you to think through, rather than just forgetting the data in a machine somewhere
[14:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: what i don't want to do is spend hours uploading GB of photos and then lose 'em...
[14:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Right
[14:37] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: FWIW, we use EBS for the disk on all instances, so this shouldn't happen in generla
[14:37] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Then, I'd suggest using S3 as a back-and-forth media for quick re-deployments
[14:38] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, makes sense.
[14:38] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: so have a big tar file in S3 and suck that down when starting a new unit.
[14:38] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Yeah
[14:39] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: and via config you can easily send it back
[14:39] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: interesting. how would that work?
[14:39] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: set a config attr saying "please archive now" ?
[14:39] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Once we have the Go port nailed down, the stop hook should work too
[14:40] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yeah, *that* would be good.
[14:40] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Yeah, you can use a named config value
[14:40] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Whenever it changes, save it again
[14:41] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: a bit of a hack, but yeah, that'd work ok.
[14:42] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Doesn't feel like a hack to me.. it's a straightforward convention with named backups
[14:44] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, if you don't overwrite backups, yeah.
[15:27] <niemeyer> TheMue: go-mstate-life-file reviewed
[15:46] <niemeyer> TheMue: ping
[15:57] <TheMue> niemeyer: seen it, cheers
[16:00] <TheMue> niemeyer: just tested google two step authentication and got troubles with all those apps who need an individual pw
[16:05]  * TheMue has an LGTM overflow ;)
[16:22] <niemeyer> TheMue: Good stuff indeed
[16:22] <TheMue> niemeyer: thx
[16:22] <TheMue> niemeyer: and mstate is real fun
[16:23] <niemeyer> I'm mostly out of things to review, which would be a feat were not for the fact that the pending one is a massive 1k+ branch
[16:23] <niemeyer> I'll head to lunch now, though
[16:23] <niemeyer> TheMue: Glad to hear it
[16:23] <TheMue> niemeyer: enjoy your lunch, i'll go to archery now ;)
[17:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_: it-lives has final review!
[17:26] <niemeyer> a final
[18:28] <niemeyer> Back in ~30mins
[18:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i wonder if you could do me a favour and check that the goamz live tests work ok for you. i get SignatureDoesNotMatch errors and i'm not sure if it because i've just mucked up my aws account or because there's actually something wrong.
[18:50] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: hmm, you're probably done for the day, of course!
[19:38] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ping
[19:58] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Hi
[19:59] <niemeyer> Doc appointment took a bit longer than expected
[21:08]  * niemeyer feels sorry for mramm
[21:23] <fwereade_> niemeyer, tyvm for reviews :)
[21:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: My pleasure
[21:24] <fwereade_> niemeyer, the ErrDying thing has caused rogpeppe's dislike for ErrorContextf to click, though, by ErrorContextf-ing the modes I can't (easily) actually return ErrDying, and *that* was what I was having a problem with
[21:25] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'll figure something out, though :)
[21:25] <fwereade_> niemeyer, `x.tomb.Kill(nil); x.tomb.Kill(ErrDying)` still gives Error() of nil, right?
[21:25] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Aha, that makes more sense, thanks
[21:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yeah
[21:27] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ok, I'll come up with something clean, but maybe tomorrow
[21:27] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Of course, thanks a lot
[21:27] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cheers, gn
[21:27] <fwereade_> davecheney, gm and gn :)
[21:27] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Have a good night
[21:31] <fwereade_> niemeyer, oh, just one question on the other review -- part of me wants to say that rather than "dropping good information on the floor" I should maybe actually explicitly require nil when setting charm state to Deployed
[21:31] <niemeyer> fwereade_: What's wrong with preserving the URL?
[21:31] <fwereade_> niemeyer, it's not so much that the information is *bad* but it is a not a canonical source of truth
[21:31] <niemeyer> fwereade_: There is an actual URL, right?
[21:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Sure, but it still feels like we know what we've last put there
[21:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: THat's what the info tells
[21:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, there's deployedURL, which is definitely correct, and then there's this; if we have and trust this, then we don;t need the one inside the charm dir, do we?
[21:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: While this isn't a big deal, I don't see a reason to not have it either
[21:33] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Makes sense, or am I missing something?
[21:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, either this, or the .juju-charm file, seems to be redundant
[21:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I would be comfortable with either as the single source of truth
[21:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, having both just makes me nervous ;)
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: It's not about having a single source of truth in this case.. they have different meanings
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We're not trusting on both
[21:34] <fwereade_> niemeyer, hmm, true
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We know they mean different things and may be different
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: and we know why
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We're also not even exposing that info ATM
[21:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'm suggesting that mainly because it enables us to change our minds
[21:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ha, yeah, fair enough :)
[21:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ok, sgtm
[21:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cheers
[21:35] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Cheers
[21:36] <fwereade_> niemeyer, oh, and JujuConnSuite.Reset is so that I can write the uniter tests as a table, in which each starts from pristine state -- am I missing some obvious better way to do that?
[21:36] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Hmm, interesting
[21:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I guess it sounds reasonable..
[21:38] <fwereade_> niemeyer, it's wanting to do stuff like this that underlies my half-belief that Fixture is a useful concept that usefully encompasses Suite and Test... but sadly *doesn't* handle both Suiteness and Testness at the same time, so the idea clearly needs more thought
[21:41] <fwereade_> niemeyer, oh, and I'm not sure I explicitly thanked you: I forget which review it was where you suggested replacing table comments with summary fields and embracing zero values, but it really made table-driven testing click -- ie it now seems *better*, not just different, IYSWIM
[21:41] <niemeyer> fwereade_: That's awesome!
[21:42] <fwereade_> niemeyer, it's one of those things that now seems ridiculously obvious, it takes a bit of effort to remember the previous perspective :)
[21:43] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yeah, I totally know what you mean.. quite a few things take a while to click
[21:45]  * fwereade_ threatens himself with a hammer, and reluctantly slinks off to bed; nn all :)
[21:48] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Have a good night man :)