[00:04] <widox> rick_h_: 1st para under Complications "the celery tas3k"
[00:07] <rick_h_> widox: ty
[11:33] <rick_h_> morning
[11:35] <brousch> yes
[11:37] <rick_h_> bah, I hate saying 'ummm, no' in pull requests.
[11:37] <rick_h_> it's nice to get some, but ugh
[11:41] <brousch> What's wrong with it?
[11:41] <rick_h_> well the one is done the way I'd like and his response is 'well it's better than what's there' and I don't want to do the work unless we do it right
[11:42] <rick_h_> the second one is just going to require a lot of clean up. It's done hte hackiest way possible and I'll have to refactor it a bunch for a use case I don't case about, but he does
[11:43] <rick_h_> don't care about that is
[11:45] <brousch> ug
[11:55] <brousch> rick_h_: What's the brilliant idea?
[11:56] <brousch> Or is it in stealth mode?
[11:56] <rick_h_> brousch: for a work thing. s/undisclosed/protected
[11:56] <rick_h_> I'm demo'ing my ui mockup work to my team this morning
[11:57] <brousch> Cool
[12:33] <snap-l> good morning
[12:33] <brousch> yes
[12:34] <rick_h_> maybe
[12:40] <snap-l> fiddlesticks
[13:03] <rick_h_> anyone want to come out for lunch? 12-2:30?
[13:03] <rick_h_> please
[13:03] <jrwren> rick_h_: i did not get anywhere with watchdog, still need to spend some time with it.
[13:04] <rick_h_> jrwren: ok cool, just curious. Was doing some hacking this weekend
[13:05] <brousch> I want to, but I can't
[13:09] <jrwren> hacking at that part?
[13:10] <rick_h_> jrwren: was merging a pull request in the makefile and saw it (not directly related)
[13:12] <rick_h_> man I hate listening to TWiT when they have apple fans on ugh
[13:12] <PainBank> I hate listening to TWiT for 2 hours, but the 20 mins of good parts are worth the hassle.
[13:13] <rick_h_> yea, it's background stuff
[13:14] <PainBank> I haven't found a decent tech podcast as an alternative though.
[13:14] <PainBank> got any suggestions?
[13:14] <rick_h_> skip podcasts :P
[13:14] <PainBank> haha, true.
[13:14] <rick_h_> I've cut way back
[13:14] <PainBank> Cast of Dads is fun.  short and not too often.
[13:14] <PainBank> but not tech focused.
[13:17] <shakes808> good morning all
[13:18] <jrwren> which twit? i wan to listen to the apple fans :)
[13:19] <jrwren> i've got a list of developer podcasts, but not general tech
[13:20] <rick_h_> this last week's one
[13:20] <jrwren> Developing Perspective, Giant Robots Smashing into other giant robots, Hanselminutes, In Beta, Radio Free Python, Ruby5, The Talk Show With John Gruber
[13:20] <jrwren> i'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnEhDOKoxA
[13:20] <jrwren> then I'll tune into the last twit
[13:22] <PainBank> jrwren: thanks.  I'll check em out.
[13:29] <brousch> I like The Linux Action Show, but it has fallen off a bit due to one of the hosts leaving
[13:31] <jrwren> there is some other python podcast that is IMO just terrible. It is a guy rambling about whatever. I listened to 2 or 3 episodes and got zero value out of it.
[13:33] <brousch> jrwren: Python 411
[13:33] <jrwren> that might be it.
[13:33] <brousch> I want to punch that guy in the head whenever I listen
[13:33] <jrwren> now i'm pretty sure that is i.
[13:33] <brousch> He is done though
[13:33] <jrwren> i wish him well.
[13:34] <brousch> I swear he was eating during the podcast
[13:34] <brousch> Could hear his lips smacking
[13:35] <jrwren> maybe
[13:36] <brousch> Radio Free Python is good. The host seems a little arrogant, but the content is good
[13:38] <PainBank> what is the Python podcast with the metal head host?
[13:38] <PainBank> too bad that one doesn't produce many podcasts...
[13:38] <jrwren> hosts are often like that.
[13:40] <rick_h_> yep :)
[13:40] <PainBank> I do like The Command Line
[13:45] <jrwren> on second thought, I think i'll skip twit
[13:56] <snap-l> I can't stand the Linux Action Show
[13:56] <snap-l> or the Linux Link Tech Show (What little I've heard)
[13:57] <brousch> Too exciting for you?
[13:57] <snap-l> No, I don't care enough to hear a rundown of the latest news that's already a week old
[13:57] <PainBank> you all seen this yet: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102594989/Samsung-Apple-Oct-5-2010-Licensing
[13:58] <snap-l> No, I'm done with Apple. :)
[13:58] <PainBank> haha, well, they are not done with you. :D
[13:58] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/08/26/apple-vs-samsung-and-the-no-derivatives-clause/
[14:02] <snap-l> PainBank: So, the allegation is Apple v. Samsung is a license deal gone south?
[14:07] <PainBank> yup
[14:08] <PainBank> that is what it looks like to me.  or at least, Apple gave them the chance to start off with...
[14:09] <nullspace> oh man another kernel update... it's gotten to the point I don't bother reading the updates
[14:10] <nullspace> more than likely it doesn't add or improve anything I would notice or know about anyway
[14:57] <jrwren> fixed a bug in some driver for some hardware you don't have.
[15:05] <snap-l> That Tulip Ethernet card is going to perform awesome with that Kernel upgrade. ;)
[15:11] <jrwren> lol, those are old cards, but I gues if you aren't gigabit, they work great.
[15:28] <snap-l> rick_h_: That bad, eh? (was re: tweet)
[15:28] <rick_h_> yea, having fun today...is it over yet?
[15:29] <snap-l> Not yet
[15:46] <shakes808> snap-l: rick_h_: Can you try going to www.nunit.org please? It won't load up on my computer for some reason. Want to know if it is their site or if my work blocked it. Thank you
[15:46] <rick_h_> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.nunit.org shakes808
[15:47] <shakes808> thank you rick_h_. That is an interesting site. I am guessing it is a way around firewalls and proxys
[15:48] <rick_h_> well it's checking from different servers out there
[15:48] <rick_h_> so if it can't access it via any of it's connections, it's going to say it's not just you
[15:48] <shakes808> That is pretty slick like rick ;)
[15:49] <snap-l> Um, it reports that google.com is down
[15:49] <snap-l> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com
[15:49] <snap-l> at least it did for me initially.
[15:50] <snap-l> I'd take that site with a small grain of salt.
[15:50] <shakes808> I plan on making an appearance at CHC this Wednesday. A coworker might join me as well. He likes the idea of CHC ;)
[15:50] <snap-l> That said, nunit.org seems down.
[15:50] <shakes808> haha
[15:54] <jrwren> poor nunit!
[15:58] <shakes808> jrwren: You are the C# person, correct?
[16:01] <jrwren> yes
[16:01] <jrwren> what do you need?
[16:01] <shakes808> just wanted you opinion about unit testing, what do you use?
[16:01] <jrwren> nunit
[16:01] <jrwren> mostly because I like the runner
[16:02] <shakes808> as of right now there isn't any unit testing set in place and was wondering if that is a good way to go or another avenue would be better
[16:02] <jrwren> i'd go nunit.
[16:02] <jrwren> gotta run, bbl
[16:02] <shakes808> coworker said that he knows and likes rhinomocks
[16:02] <shakes808> alright
[16:02] <shakes808> take care
[16:02] <shakes808> thank you for the quick answer ;)
[16:03] <Blazeix> shakes808: there are two different parts to testing, one is a test runner, like nunit or xunit; the second is the mocking library.
[16:03] <Blazeix> you could use both nunit and rhinomocks together
[16:04] <shakes808> interesting
[16:04] <shakes808> The little bit of unit testing that I have been exposed to is the short time working with Pyramid around CHC
[16:05] <Blazeix> so you could use nunit to set up test methods and classes, and rhinomocks to set up your test data objects.
[16:06] <shakes808> interesting. I will have to look more deeply into this
[16:10] <Blazeix> i'm personally a fan of the moq library in C#. i use that with mstest.
[16:12] <shakes808> is there an all-in-one?
[16:16] <Blazeix> not that i know of, though i haven't done much research. they're sort of two separate concerns.
[16:16] <Blazeix> you might try reading: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163904.aspx
[16:16] <Blazeix> that will give you a decent intro to what mocking is
[16:17] <Blazeix> maybe some of the python peeps like rick_h_ or snap-l can relate them to the pyramid testing you've done
[16:28] <snap-l> Unit Testing is for bedwetters, not real coders. (j/k)
[16:29] <Blazeix> real programmers simply use the haskell type system to prove their program is correct.
[16:29] <rick_h_> there you go
[16:29] <rick_h_> less tests more types ftw
[16:30] <rick_h_> tests are for lazy devs :P
[16:30] <snap-l> Haskell? ADA.
[16:30] <snap-l> Throw an exception if your flaoting point types don't match. ;)
[16:34] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/yva4m/i_finally_got_my_tiling_window_manager_configured/
[16:35] <Blazeix> pshaw, if it doesn't use vim-like commands it isn't worth using :)
[16:36] <Blazeix> actually, i'd like to extend that to most software.
[16:36] <rick_h_> +1
[16:56] <jrwren> shakes808: rhinomocks works great with nunit.
[16:57] <jrwren> +2
[17:04] <shakes808> jrwren: Thank you. I was just looking into that :D
[18:10] <rick_h_> so who wants to come over and help me move these into the house? http://ubuntuone.com/4eVf4CRSXMDXwzGprFfapH
[18:12] <devinheitmueller> I would help, but the commute is a bit far for me.
[18:12] <rick_h_> oh come on, what's a plane flight between friends?
[18:14] <devinheitmueller> I actually did fly to Detroit once to help a friend drive a car back to New Jersey.
[18:14] <brousch> That's a lot of flooring
[18:14] <devinheitmueller> But hey, if you're willing to cover the cost of the flight, I would be happy to help.
[18:25] <rick_h_> brousch: 650sq ft + 10% I guess
[18:25] <rick_h_> 24/box * 28 boxes = 672sq ft
[18:40] <jrwren> real hardwood?
[18:42] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, hickory
[18:43] <rick_h_> dream floor going down, not moving for a looong while now
[18:43] <jrwren> nice.
[18:43] <rick_h_> die carpet die!
[18:44] <brousch> Rugs 4 life!
[18:45] <rick_h_> oh I'll have to pick up a couple of area rugs, a hallway runner
[18:45] <rick_h_> but nothing I can't take out back and beat
[18:45] <rick_h_> next year I'll try out some of that fancy cork stuff in my office maybe, but wood ftw!
[18:56] <widox> rick_h_: cork is nice, had it in my kitchen
[18:57] <rick_h_> widox: cool, yea it seems like a good floor for the basement office
[19:11] <brousch> So when it floods you can walk on it like a raft?
[19:17] <shakes808> Back, sorry meetings and such. Just found out VS / MS already has a unit testing library. How is that one? .... Or is that the reason NUnit came along, is because it wasn't that great?
[19:21] <Blazeix> yeah, that's mstest, the one i use.
[19:22] <Blazeix> i like it, good visual studio integration.
[19:22] <Blazeix> i think it might be a PITA to get it automatically running in continuous integration environments
[19:22] <Blazeix> which is where nunit shines, because it was The One True Testrunner for a while.
[19:27] <shakes808> gotcha
[19:27] <shakes808> Thank you
[19:27] <jrwren> shakes808: i really hate the VS/MS "MSTEST" :)
[19:28] <jrwren> its not extensible in places it should be, typical idiotic MS stuff like sealed classes for no reason, sealed methds for no reason.
[19:28] <jrwren> and what Blazeix said about getting a build server up and running... you have to install an expensive VS on the build server
[19:33] <snap-l> Also, there's a pragmatic programmer book on C# and NUnit, and apparently a coupon code for 40% off: randy_lives_63077563
[19:33] <snap-l> (good for a few hours)
[19:48] <Blazeix> shakes808: i wouldn't stress out too much about picking a testing framework. go ahead with nunit, and if you ever do need to switch for some reason, it's not a big deal.
[19:53] <jrwren> agreed.
[19:53] <shakes808> Just doing some research for the company that I am working for now. They don't have anything in place yet and since there are trying to refactor what they have with more of us programmers, just trying to see which way to go.
[19:54] <jrwren> i use nunit and mstest extensively and had #ifdefs to toggle between the two based on build flags
[19:54] <jrwren> go nunit, if you find a reason to change, then change :)
[19:55] <shakes808> Their IT crew went from 1~4 people in the code to 5+ and they are still growing it seems like. They are using SVN for their versioning control
[19:55] <shakes808> 5 is below actual number, but it has grown double in a month lol and continuing
[20:04] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/1sc6b
[20:04] <rick_h_> really nice sqlite/debugging article ^^
[20:17] <rick_h_> this is going to get annoying for users http://goo.gl/TkLIS
[20:20] <snap-l> Honestly, at this point it's rather pointless to make a Twitter client
[20:21] <snap-l> They've stated as much
[20:26] <brousch> rick_h_: You're welcome https://github.com/cwood/vim-django
[20:41] <rick_h_> brousch: :P
[20:42] <brousch> Just trying to make your life easier
[21:35] <greg-g> feeling much better now, killing this todo items
[21:35] <greg-g> s/this/these/
[21:36] <snap-l> greg-g: Man, NC /ND is a shit-stirrer. :)
[21:37] <greg-g> :)
[21:42] <snap-l> Though I would love for the "NC-ND is essentially the same as 'all rights reserved'" crowd to please create a podcast with every single from the Billboard Top 40 chart and tell me they're the same when the RIAA busts down their door.
[21:43] <snap-l> bbl. :)
[21:46] <greg-g> snap-l: as social norms go, it is. See: P2P file sharing, tumblr, youtube, etc etc. Just because it isn't legal doesn't mean it isn't what most think (c) means.
[21:46] <greg-g> also, jerk for baiting and leaving
[21:46] <greg-g> ;)
[21:50] <greg-g> I'd suggest listening to the Surprisingly Free podcast episode on the new prohibition, it was pretty well explained why this researcher thinks they are related (prohibition and modern copyright maximalism)
[21:51] <greg-g> (I linked to it in that thread, too lazy to dig it up now, don't want to look at that thread again, laurel was too gut reactive, not analytical enough for me on a topic that has long term consequences)
[21:56] <greg-g> also, one in a long line of such arguments, they all take a very thing slice view (such is the world of acadmic articles, mostly): http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2129458
[21:57] <greg-g> (I just linked to that one because I just came across it today)
[22:37] <snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm a jerk, but I was at work. :)
[22:38] <snap-l> But yeah, parallels between prohibition and (c) are pretty valid
[23:22] <roivas> ~
[23:25] <greg-g> rm -rf ~
[23:33] <rick_h_> how helpful greg-g
[23:34] <Blazeix> halp i ran that command and i get error
[23:35] <greg-g> I once, accidentally created a folder called " ~" (without the quotes)
[23:35] <greg-g> that was the scariest rm -rf I ever did
[23:36] <rick_h_> lol
[23:36] <brousch> This will get it back: sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
[23:37] <greg-g> WARNING: THESE ARE ALL LEGIT, I MEAN, TOTALLY EFFING BOGUS THINGS TO DO ON YOUR OWN MACHINE
[23:37] <rick_h_> we're so going to get shut down ...
[23:37] <Blazeix> 'dd' means data duplicate, it restores all your data from the automatic backup, right?
[23:37] <brousch> Wait, are we actually helping someone?
[23:37] <greg-g> I sure hope not
[23:38] <brousch> OK, I came in on greg-g's command and didn't know
[23:38] <Blazeix> i, too, randomly post data destroying commands on entering a channel.
[23:39] <greg-g> that's just the kind of clientele #ubuntu-us-mi attracts
[23:42] <roivas> I blame my typo on using a wireless apple keyboard on ubuntu