[04:59] <Squirm> lo
[05:10] <Kilos> morning all
[05:31] <Squirm> hello Kilos 
[05:33] <magespawn> morning all
[05:33] <Kilos> hey Squirm 
[05:33] <Squirm> hi magespawn 
[05:33] <magespawn> whats up Squirm?
[05:33]  * Squirm noms his toast
[05:34] <Squirm> I'm late :/
[05:34] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[05:35] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[05:40] <Squirm> be back in a few. going to work.
[05:58] <jrgns> morning all
[05:59]  * Squirm yawns
[05:59] <Squirm> hello jrgns 
[05:59] <magespawn> hi jrgns
[05:59] <magespawn> you at work already Squirm?
[05:59] <jrgns> has anyone here registered a co.za domain manually?
[06:00] <jrgns> hi megaspawn, Squirm
[06:00] <magespawn> how do you mean manually?
[06:00] <magespawn> tab complete
[06:00] <Kilos> hi jrgns 
[06:00] <Squirm> jrgns: you fill in the form and email it off
[06:01] <Squirm> didn't know there was an autonomous way
[06:01] <Squirm> magespawn: yep, I live on the premises :P
[06:01] <magespawn> lol
[06:01] <magespawn> if you do it through an isp they do it for you
[06:02] <Squirm> ok
[06:02] <Squirm> jrgns: http://co.za/coza_reg.txt
[06:03] <Squirm> and in the big block
[06:03] <Squirm>      |Please Email the completed form once the domain is ready to:     |
[06:03] <Squirm>      |             coza-admin@co.za
[06:26]  * Squirm eyes jrgns 
[06:29] <jrgns> Squirm thnx
[06:29] <jrgns> ja, I got that part
[06:29] <jrgns> my issue is with the DNS
[06:29] <jrgns> co.za requires the DNS to be setup before you can register it
[06:30] <jrgns> but my DNS provider (namecheap) requires the domain to be registered before you can setup the DNS
[06:30] <jrgns> chicken <-> egg situation
[06:31] <jrgns> at the moment I'm contemplating setting up my own DNS server just for the initial registration, and then moving the DNS to nc
[06:31] <jrgns> I was wondering if there are any other solutions
[06:32] <jrgns> megaspawn: I've gone the isp route before, want to try out doing it myself
[06:32] <jrgns> and hey Kilos
[06:32]  * jrgns thinks he's caught up on all the messages now
[06:34] <Symmetria> dammit, my dog is getting very upset that I wont play with her 
[06:34] <Symmetria> she's barking at me
[06:35] <Kerbero> send her back to the spca so that they can play with her
[06:35] <Kerbero> :|
[06:35] <Symmetria> lol the other day she stole my wireless mouse off my desk
[06:40] <Kilos> morning superfly Kerbero Symmetria 
[06:41] <superfly> morning Kilos
[06:41] <sakhi_> morning
[06:43] <Kilos> hi sakhi psydroid 
[06:44] <psydroid> namaste Kilos
[06:45] <charlvn> good morning
[06:45] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on
[06:45]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[06:45] <psydroid> goedenmorgen charlvn
[06:45] <psydroid> hi sakhi
[06:45] <Kilos> hi charlvn 
[06:45] <charlvn> hoi psydroid :)
[06:45] <charlvn> hi Kilos 
[06:46] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[06:46] <Maaz> Kilos: Alrighty
[06:49] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn and Kilos!
[06:49] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[06:49] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[06:57] <charlvn> Maaz: thanks
[06:57] <Maaz> charlvn: Sure
[07:12] <Squirm> jrgns: sorry, was out
[07:12] <Squirm> jrgns: try everydns
[07:12] <Squirm> free
[07:13] <Squirm> nevermind
[07:13] <Squirm> just saw now that its dead
[07:13] <Squirm> :/
[07:13] <jrgns> Squirm: urgh, ok
[07:13] <Squirm> I used it for ages. but havent in about 2 years
[07:14] <Squirm> jrgns: http://zoneedit.com/
[07:15] <Squirm> the other one I used. not as good, but it should do in the interim
[07:15] <jrgns> tried them, but you need to pay 1$ per zone
[07:15] <superfly> afraid.org I think
[07:15] <Squirm> :O
[07:15] <jrgns> superfly: tried them as well, but they also need the domain registered before you can add the zone (i think)
[07:16] <Squirm> jrgns: I can set up one for you. it'll point to my site for now, but if it's just for registration...
[07:16] <superfly> ah
[07:16] <jrgns> Squirm: thanx, but I want to be able to automate it a bit
[07:16] <jrgns> easiest will probably be to set it up on my server then
[07:16] <Squirm> you'll have control, I'll just provide the nameservers
[07:16] <jrgns> kewl, control through? API?
[07:17] <Squirm> wait. how does your host expect you to have registered the domain, if you have nothing to register it with
[07:18] <Squirm> if you just carry on through those steps, where you want to hos your site
[07:18] <Squirm> enter in the domain name you want(don't have yet)
[07:18] <Squirm> doesn't it let you go through?
[07:18] <jrgns> I'm self hosting, and used to register through a service provider
[07:18] <jrgns> now I want to self register as well
[07:19] <jrgns> it looks like co.za assumes that if you have the expertise to register, you can also setup a name server
[07:19] <Squirm> so why can't you set up the domain on your hosting side, before you register?
[07:19] <Squirm> ah, I see
[07:19] <Squirm> yes, you'll either have to set up a NS, or find one
[07:19] <jrgns> that's what i'll be doing - setup a dns server on my hosting box, and use it just to do the initial registration
[07:20] <jrgns> yup
[07:20] <Squirm> once it's registered, what are you going to do with it?
[07:20] <jrgns> namecheap, probably.
[07:20] <jrgns> my international domains are with them, currently, and they have an api
[07:20] <jrgns> and they're quite cheap
[07:20] <charlvn> http://dns.he.net/ is probably one of the best i have used
[07:20] <Squirm> then why do you have to register it before you use them>
[07:20] <Squirm> ?
[07:21] <jrgns> don't think they do co.za domains, do they?
[07:21] <superfly> Squirm: what do you mean? You need to first set up the domain name on a name server, then you register it and the registrar looks at the DNS servers you provide.
[07:22] <Squirm> superfly: I get that. but once it's registered, he says he'll move it to namecheap
[07:22] <Squirm> which will then undergo the same process
[07:22] <charlvn> if you want to register a co.za, get a primary dns server and a secondary dns server and put in the application yourself
[07:23] <charlvn> if you register it via another company, make sure you have the ownership and not them
[07:23] <superfly> If you don't provide valid DNS servers for your domain name, the registrar will reject your registration
[07:23] <charlvn> some companies register the domain under their name and then they are technically the owners
[07:23] <jrgns> charlvn: that's what I want to do, the problem is the dns servers
[07:23] <charlvn> so if you want to move it away they can hold you for ransom
[07:23] <jrgns> I can't get any (free) ones that allow setting up the DNS *before* the registration
[07:23] <charlvn> jrgns: have you checked dns.he.net?
[07:23] <charlvn> they of course allow this
[07:23] <charlvn> or used to, anyway
[07:23] <jrgns> soz, not yet, bouncing around
[07:23] <jrgns> hold on
[07:23] <charlvn> and the servers support ipv6 nicely
[07:24] <Squirm> jrgns: that's the thing. you have to be able to set up dns *before* registering a domain. so I'm sure all those servics do offer it
[07:25] <jrgns> Namecheap doesn't
[07:25] <jrgns> you need to confirm the domain first, either through an email
[07:25] <jrgns> or through the domain's nameservers pointing to them
[07:25] <jrgns> so for a new domain you can't do it
[07:26] <jrgns> i'm checking out dns.he.net now
[07:26] <Squirm> ok
[07:26] <Squirm> well
[07:26] <jrgns> zoneedit isn't free
[07:26] <Squirm> off to work I go
[07:26] <Squirm> and it used to be free :/
[07:29] <jrgns> yeah, schweet. dns.he.net is free, and allows adding zones for unregistered domains
[07:29] <jrgns> thnx charlvn!
[07:29] <charlvn> np
[07:33] <jrgns> some more options, for those who are interested http://www.quietaffiliate.com/3-new-free-dns-hosting-providers-including-failover-hosting
[07:34]  * tumbleweed uses dns.he.net very happily (as a secondary, to the primary I run on my server)
[07:52] <charlvn> tumbleweed: which dns daemon do you use?
[07:52] <charlvn> i used to use bind but i got a bit careful of all the security holes
[07:53] <tumbleweed> charlvn: powerdns
[07:53] <tumbleweed> but with the bind zone-file backend, because text files are more convenient for editing than DBs
[07:53] <charlvn> sounds good
[07:53] <tumbleweed> yeah, I'm also scared of BIND
[07:54] <charlvn> wb psydroid 
[07:55] <sakhi> hi psydroid 
[07:57] <psydroid> ty charlvn
[08:04] <superfly> I want to use PowerDNS the same way I use BIND, as both a local and a forwarding DNS server, but I couldn't make head or tail of the docs I read
[08:05] <tumbleweed> I really like keeping authoritive and recursive DNS servers separate
[08:05] <tumbleweed> (except in small LANs, where dnsmasq can do everything and I love it)
[08:06] <superfly> I don't mind if they're separate, I just want it to work
[08:18] <Kilos> hi morgs 
[08:18] <morgs> Hi Kilos 
[08:18]  * Kilos greets tumbleweed  too
[09:02] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 
[09:02] <Vince-0> hi
[09:53] <Squirm> lo
[09:54] <tumbleweed> morning Kilos
[09:54] <tumbleweed> (eep, only just)
[09:54] <Kilos> lol
[09:54] <tumbleweed> time to start being productive...
[09:55] <smile> hi all :)
[09:55] <Kilos> hi smile 
[09:56] <smile> Kilos: how are you? :)
[09:56] <Kilos> ok ty smile  and you?
[09:57] <smile> Kilos: also fine :)
[09:57]  * smile just wrote an article about systemd on wikipedia
[09:57] <smile> :)
[10:00] <tumbleweed> smile: systemd is available on Debian, but AFAIK it's not actually usable without a lot of effort
[10:00] <tumbleweed> it doesn't support sys-v scripts out the box, does it?
[10:01]  * tumbleweed dosen't think OpenRC is directly comperable, but I suppose it is a modern sys-v init implementation...
[10:03] <inetpro> good morning everyone
[10:03] <smile> tumbleweed: I don't know :) but they were making a conversion script
[10:03] <smile> in both ways
[10:03] <inetpro> Maaz: what's for lunch?
[10:03] <Maaz> inetpro: they say Debonairs Pizza is the leading pizza restaurant in Africa. http://www.debonairs.co.za/
[10:03] <smile> good morning inetpro :p
[10:03] <tumbleweed> smile: it's continuously discussed in Debian, but I'm not convinced it's a solveable problem
[10:04] <tumbleweed> at least, not completely
[10:04] <Kilos> lo inetpro 
[10:05]  * smile gaat eten
[10:05] <smile> tumbleweed: it's solveable, but not in near future
[10:05] <smile> :p
[10:05] <Symmetria> god I love this amplifier
[10:05] <Symmetria> kilos was just browsing around my amp at home via a web interface :P
[10:05] <Kilos> you gonna end up deaf
[10:06] <Symmetria> haha kilos I gotta reenable the firewalling/security on that thing
[10:06] <Kilos> no wonder your dog is mad
[10:06] <Symmetria> because technically with the access you had there right then
[10:06] <Symmetria> you can change my music, my volume, the input anything
[10:06] <Symmetria> :p
[10:06] <Kilos> ok ty for sharing
[10:06] <Symmetria> plz dont :p
[10:06] <Symmetria> haha
[10:06] <inetpro> Kilos: what's the address?
[10:06] <Kilos> haha
[10:06] <Symmetria> lol you'll have noticed the volume was set at -45.5dB
[10:07] <Symmetria> if you were to change that to 0dB my neighbors would go deaf
[10:07] <Symmetria> change that to +20dB and my windows will probably break
[10:07] <Symmetria> ;P
[10:07] <Kilos> lol
[10:07] <Symmetria> hehe that amp is linked to almost a thousand watts RMS worth of speakers 
[10:08] <Kilos> ouch
[10:08] <inetpro> Kilos: try to break it while you can, Symmetria loves fixing things again
[10:08] <Symmetria> kilos its kinda cool that you can browse my pc with it :p
[10:08] <Symmetria> for mp3s
[10:08] <Kilos> luckily they still use volume controls
[10:08] <Kilos> yeah
[10:08] <Symmetria> and that internet radio classified by genre is hardcore as well
[10:09] <Kilos> you will be able to have a 2 week long party and not need to change music
[10:09] <Symmetria> kilos haha I can do that off my mp3/flac collection already
[10:09] <Symmetria> :p
[10:10] <Kilos> you'll be old and gray before you listen to it all
[10:10] <Kilos> your mom must walk around with ear plugs in
[10:10] <Symmetria> Total Tracks Found: 98741
[10:10] <Symmetria> ;p
[10:10] <Kilos> wow
[10:11] <Symmetria> scary thing is that I actually OWN 80% of that as originals :p
[10:11] <Kilos> oh well you gotta use your money for something
[10:11] <Kilos> dont wanna lose too much when banks crash
[10:12] <Symmetria> hehe most of the stuff I dont own is bootlegs
[10:12] <Symmetria> because you cant own those :p
[10:12] <Kilos> keep some under the mattress as well
[10:12] <Symmetria> thats 14 years of collecting music
[10:12] <Symmetria> :)
[10:13] <Kilos> whew
[10:13] <Symmetria> though now days most of the music I collect is really rare stuff, I have enough normal stuff, now I go looking for stuff thats extremely hard to find/very rare 
[10:13] <Kilos> im sure your mom sighs with relief when you go away for a week or two
[10:14] <Kilos> hehe
[10:14]  * Symmetria managed to get hold of an original cd of sisters of mercy - some BOYS wander by mistake
[10:14] <Symmetria> heh, that cd cost me almost 1500 bux :p
[10:14] <Kilos> ow
[10:14] <Symmetria> because they only created like, 500 of it 
[10:16] <Kilos> you better have a kid to inherit from you
[10:30] <Symmetria> kilos
[10:31] <Symmetria> what browser were you using
[10:31] <Symmetria> when you accessed that thing
[10:31] <Kilos> opera Symmetria 
[10:31] <Symmetria> cause inetpro is getting odd errors on chrome and firefox under linux
[10:31] <Symmetria> but it works fine on my chrome 
[10:31] <Symmetria> and my firefox 
[10:32] <Kilos> lemme try again
[10:32] <Kilos> im back in again
[10:33] <Symmetria> hrm
[10:33] <Symmetria> it might be that his squid proxies dont luv it :p
[10:35]  * inetpro should upgrade that squid anyway, but I somehow suspect that it's something else
[10:36] <Kilos> inetpro, dont you ever use opera
[10:36] <inetpro> Kilos: no, it's not in the standard repositories
[10:37] <Kilos> ah, 
[10:37] <inetpro> I used to like Opera many years ago
[10:37] <inetpro> then came Firefox 1
[10:38] <inetpro> and I have not looked back after that
[10:38] <inetpro> Firefox with all it's extensions is a very powerful and feature complete browser
[10:41] <Kilos> i think i got opera because it is the browser on my nokia and somewhere it said get it for pc
[10:41] <Kilos> light weight they said
[10:41] <Kilos> works ok for me and doesnt update every 2 weekas
[10:41] <Kilos> weeks either
[10:44] <inetpro> opera is very strong on old mobile hardware like nokia, but I don't think they are as competitive as Firefox and Chromium/Chrome these days
[10:44] <inetpro> but I could be wrong
[10:47] <inetpro> but I see their latest release is Opera 12.00 released on 2012-08-02
[10:47] <inetpro> Kilos: I guess the reason that you're not seeing frequent updates is exactly because it's not in the repositories
[10:47] <inetpro> a dangerous road to go
[10:51] <inetpro> Kilos: Opera Changelogs for UNIX http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unix/
[10:57] <Kilos> ah they udpated some
[10:57] <Kilos> dunno which one i got
[10:57] <Kilos> must be 12.00
[10:58] <Kilos> the turbo tool works ok when nets are slow
[10:58] <Kilos> dunno how it does that but anyway
[11:29] <magespawn> hey all
[11:29] <magespawn> Symmetria you showing off again
[11:31] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday magespawn 
[11:31] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[11:31] <magespawn> whats up?
[11:35] <Kilos> not much
[12:23] <magespawn> saw you and symmetria were playing nicely
[12:24] <Kilos> hehe
[12:24] <Kilos> he has some nice toys
[12:24] <magespawn> that he does
[12:25] <magespawn> did he just pass you a ip address? to get in, or did he give you a password and signon as well?
[12:31] <Kilos> address
[12:32] <Kilos> he must know i wouldnt turn the volume up
[12:33] <Kilos> not naughty like you guys
[12:44] <Kilos> cooler today hey magespawn ?
[12:45] <Kilos> still waiting for the sun to shine for more than 10 minutes
[13:04] <magespawn> a little cooler today, still working with aricon and a fan
[13:04] <magespawn> aircon 
[13:04] <magespawn> is that the one you posted in your channel?
[13:05] <Kilos> ya
[13:05] <magespawn> did he allow anyone to connect?
[13:06] <magespawn> Symmetria you still around?
[13:07] <Kilos> how come you showed online all night and this morning magespawn 
[13:07] <Kilos> pc stayed connected?
[13:08] <magespawn> i am connected through a quasselcore in my shop
[13:08] <magespawn> how are you connecting, what program?
[13:08] <Kilos> oh and that stays connected?
[13:08] <Kilos> xchat
[13:08] <magespawn> yes the core stays on line as long as the server does
[13:09] <Kilos> thats no good man then how must we know when to say wb
[13:17] <tonberryE352> so say i have a bunch of programs piping things into each other and a program somewhere in the middle is a huge bottleneck, is there any way to get the latency on this chain reasonable?
[13:18] <tonberryE352> because at the moment I'm at 700ms from one side to the other and I suspect it is caused by the pipe's buffering like crazy
[13:18] <tonberryE352> pipes*
[13:41] <Kilos> tonberryE352, cant you bypass some them pipes past the bottleneck
[13:42] <Kilos> or is the bottlenecked program an important one there in the middle
[13:45] <jrgns> cheers all, have a good evening
[13:46] <tonberryE352> bottleneck is the part that talks to hardware
[13:46] <Kilos> or duplicate that program and run it in parralel alongside its clone to share the load
[13:46] <tonberryE352> so very important
[13:46] <tonberryE352> its not a load problem
[13:47] <tonberryE352> cpu can handle far higher speeds
[13:56] <Symmetria> lol
[13:57] <Symmetria> magespawn I trust kilos
[13:57] <Symmetria> :p
[14:37] <magespawn> I was wondering if I could ask you a favour. I will understand if you say no symmetria
[14:37] <magespawn> Kilos does xchat show you when the ppl are marked as away?
[14:37] <Kilos> yes
[14:38] <Kilos> they go gray
[14:38] <magespawn> i try to mark my self as away, but sometimes i get disconnected before i can
[14:38] <Kilos> and if you right click on the nick you can read away messages etc
[14:39] <Kilos> lol\
[14:39] <Kilos> thats in settings you mark away
[14:40] <Kilos> preferences under general
[14:40] <magespawn> yup you can just use /away "reason"
[14:40] <magespawn> like so 
[14:40] <magespawn> see no I am away
[14:40] <magespawn> now
[14:41] <Symmetria> magespawn
[14:41] <Symmetria> see message
[14:41] <Symmetria> :p
[14:43] <Symmetria> heh
[14:43] <Kilos> no man you not gray
[14:44] <magespawn> was hold on
[14:44] <Kilos> there something i think the fly called a bouncer to login from 2 p0laces
[14:45] <Kilos> places
[14:45] <Kilos> irc bouncer?
[14:45] <Kilos> tell him superfly 
[14:45] <Kilos> head too sore to think
[14:45] <Kilos> ah there you go magespawn 
[14:45] <Kilos> you gray now
[14:46] <Symmetria> hehe I still think its so cool you can use a webbrowser to browse to my amplifier and chose what you listening to
[14:49] <Kilos> very clever that
[14:49] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos, magespawn and Symmetria
[14:50] <Kilos> hi Trixar_za 
[14:50] <Symmetria> heh we're trialing something at the moment on a university campus
[14:50] <Symmetria> to "extend the campus" 
[14:50] <Symmetria> so that a lecturer can get a block of ip space 
[14:50] <Symmetria> plug in a device on his side
[14:50] <Symmetria> and his house will vpn (encrypted, heavily) and route the space back to him
[14:50] <tonberryE352> nice
[14:51] <tonberryE352> but how is that different from a normal vpn?
[14:51] <Symmetria> tonberryE352 normal vpn's give a single ip address and nat everything
[14:51] <Symmetria> this is fully routed 
[14:51] <tonberryE352> ah
[14:51] <Symmetria> and this isnt a software client
[14:51] <tonberryE352> oh
[14:51] <Symmetria> basically they get a router, they put in their dsl auth details from their provider
[14:51] <tonberryE352> nice
[14:52] <Symmetria> and the router is pre-configured with the ip block theyg ot
[14:52] <Symmetria> so when they plug it in at home, they are suddenly on the campus
[14:52] <Symmetria> though we're looking for a cheaper router than what we're currently testing with, I suspect we'll end up with the srx 110's
[14:52] <Symmetria> we're using the srx 210's for testing and they arent practical price wise
[14:52] <Symmetria> (the dsl router Im using at home costs 10 grand) 
[14:53] <Symmetria> but heh, not really suprising when you consider its encrypting all the traffic in hardware
[14:53] <Symmetria> so no performance hit
[14:54] <tonberryE352> yeah vpn encryption at high bandwidth hurts
[14:54] <Symmetria> (technically you could establish this vpn on a linux box as well in the same way as we are using the dsl router, but the dsl router is kinda nice)
[14:54] <Symmetria> the other end of the vpn is a fortigate
[14:54] <magespawn> later all
[14:55] <tonberryE352> openwrt box if you really need to do it cheap?
[14:55] <Symmetria> hrm, I dont know if openwrt can do this
[14:55] <inetpro> Symmetria: and how do you prevent abuse of corporate resources?
[14:55] <Symmetria> inetpro the fortinet can do a TON of interesting things
[14:56] <Symmetria> you can restrict *EXACTLY* what they can do
[14:56] <Symmetria> and how much bandwidth they can use
[14:56] <Symmetria> at the moment in testing I havent been applying any of those policies yet, but the functionality is there
[14:56] <tonberryE352> ssh like thing on a random port?
[14:57] <Symmetria> generally, we apply a default deny on outbound other than permitted
[14:58] <Symmetria> and there is a load of authentication etc for a lot of things
[14:58] <inetpro> interesting
[14:58]  * inetpro wbb
[14:58] <Symmetria> right now Im tryign to get v6 back to myself over this
[14:58] <Symmetria> haha
[14:58] <Symmetria> its not proving easy
[15:11] <Squirm> hello
[15:12] <Kilos> hi Squirm 
[15:43] <Kilos> tumbleweed, is this for clever peeps only or will the mails help me too
[15:43] <Kilos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity
[15:44] <Kilos> hi acherv 
[15:44] <Kilos> didnt see you here
[15:44] <tumbleweed> Kilos: is *what* for clever peeps only? that's just a wiki page about unity...
[15:44] <Kilos> oh its a link in customizing unity
[15:44] <Kilos> i get more info
[15:45] <Kilos> By joining the Unity design mailing list, Roscoe can get first-hand, up-to-date information of
[15:45] <Kilos> new developments in Unity, as well as being part of a se
[15:45] <Kilos> must i change my nick to roscoe first
[15:45] <Kilos> hehe
[15:45] <Kilos> Maaz, unity customize
[15:45] <Maaz> http://ubuntuone.com/4hBTr1gcwxorEcCRd2cgnW
[15:46] <Kilos> thats what i am reading through
[15:48] <Kilos> Have your email address added to the Unity design mailing list6.
[15:48] <Kilos> dunno if i should add mine
[15:50] <tumbleweed> Kilos: myyunity is fairly safe. As are most settings in cssm. But you can still totally break your desktop with ccsm if you aren't careful
[15:51] <Kilos> yeah read that, i wont touch it
[15:51] <Kilos> i thought that list might give some infoe now and again on improvements
[15:52] <Kilos> mails i can work through in my own time
[15:52] <Kilos> and speed
[15:53] <charlvn> good afternoon all
[15:55] <Kilos> lo charlvn 
[16:00] <charlvn> hi Kilos 
[16:04] <Symmetria> sup charl
[16:09] <sakhi> hey charlvn 
[16:10] <Symmetria> lo sakhi
[16:10] <Symmetria> sakhi, what is UWC doing about ipv6
[16:12] <sakhi> Nothing at the moment, I was talking about it but seems like the guys fear ipv6
[16:13] <Symmetria> heh
[16:13] <Symmetria> sakhi, so do what UFS did
[16:13] <Symmetria> bring me in, and I'll do it for you :)
[16:13] <Kerbero> "[16:57] <Symmetria> generally, we apply a default deny on outbound other than permitted" <- i hate those rules
[16:13] <sakhi> I will need to speak to the networking team again
[16:13] <Symmetria> did you see the article on UFS's v6 rollout?
[16:13] <Symmetria> the other thing you need to ask them, how long before you guys get rid of NAT :P 
[16:14] <sakhi> I haven't seen the article yet.
[16:14] <Symmetria> if you're wanting IP space to do that, you need to do it fast, the space is runing out and at the rate Im using it for other institutions it will be gone soon :P
[16:14] <Symmetria> Ive already got /15s for UFS and NWU :P
[16:14] <Symmetria> and busy processing for a /14 for someone else
[16:14] <Symmetria> sakhi heh lemme find it
[16:15] <Symmetria> http://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/56241-shocking-ipv6-revelation-in-south-africa.html
[16:15] <Symmetria> sakhi heh read that
[16:15] <Symmetria> I think it hammers home the point :)
[16:15] <sakhi> ta
[16:15] <Symmetria> heh they speaked at 126mbit of v6 today
[16:15] <Symmetria> :p
[16:16] <Symmetria> and run pretty consistantly at 100
[16:21] <sakhi> I will need to bring this up again in a management meeting or bring it up as a risk (which it is) UFS is doing well.
[16:23] <Symmetria> heh sakhi that UFS project was... challenging hehe
[16:23] <Symmetria> but we got it done
[16:23] <Symmetria> Louis and I spent 3 weeks rearchitecturing their network 
[16:23] <Symmetria> with new v4 and v6 space
[16:23] <Symmetria> but did it with zero downtime
[16:23] <Symmetria> *hrm* I can actually send you the details of exactly what we did if you want
[16:24] <Symmetria> whats your email addy
[16:25] <sakhi> I would realy like to be hands on when we do it and do more work on that. email: sakhi7@gmail.com
[16:27] <Symmetria> go take a look at that email :)
[16:27] <Symmetria> heh sakhi, there is no way I would do work like that on campus without a team from the campus very much hands on when its done
[16:27] <Symmetria> because they have to support it at the end of the day
[16:27] <Kerbero> Symmetria: is that very confidential info? as i would like to know more too
[16:28] <Symmetria> Kerbero no, there is a fair amount of public info that we put out there
[16:28] <Symmetria> email addy?
[16:28] <Kerbero> :)
[16:29] <Symmetria> hehe sakhi/kerbero lemme know thoughts once you've read that
[16:35] <inetpro> Symmetria: thanks for the info
[16:35] <inetpro> please bear with me if I ask newby questions... 
[16:35]  * inetpro is always a newby
[16:35] <inetpro> what are SP style protocols?
[16:35]  * Kerbero also wants to know
[16:35] <Kerbero> oSPf?
[16:36] <Symmetria> IS-IS/BGP
[16:36] <Symmetria> OSPF is also used in SP's but its still more an enterprise protocol
[16:37] <Symmetria> I have a definately preference for IS-IS but we couldnt roll it at UFS because of hardware limitations
[16:37] <inetpro> ok
[16:37] <Symmetria> definate I mean
[16:39]  * Kerbero has read halfway
[16:39] <Kerbero> i like what you did with the port flapping on the switches
[16:39] <Kerbero> do they have the same brand of switches everywhere, or mixed?
[16:43] <Symmetria> its HP
[16:43] <Symmetria> horrible stuff
[16:43] <Symmetria> we wanna replace it all but its all about finding budget
[16:43] <Kerbero> lol
[16:43] <Kerbero> o
[16:43] <Kerbero> stellenbosch is replacing everything with HP's
[16:43] <Kerbero> :P
[16:44] <Symmetria> there are 19.5k switch ports 
[16:44] <Symmetria> on that network
[16:44] <Symmetria> heh, they are gonna regret that decision
[16:44] <Symmetria> the HP stuff is expensive compared to juniper kit
[16:44] <Kerbero> what is better than HP though?
[16:44] <Kerbero> o ok
[16:44] <Symmetria> and the juniper kit is a thousand times better
[16:44] <Kerbero> hmm
[16:44] <Kerbero> interesting
[16:44] <sakhi> agreed
[16:44] <Symmetria> its a thousand times more powerful as well
[16:44] <Kerbero> ok
[16:45] <Symmetria> its also actually not that pricey
[16:45] <Kerbero> any idea on the price of a 24port gigabit juniper?
[16:45] <Symmetria> depends which one you want and what functionality you want outta it
[16:45] <Symmetria> and what volume you buy in
[16:45] <Kerbero> yes of coarse
[16:45] <Symmetria> if you buy a base 24 port edge switch with basic routing on it with 24 gigE POE ports its well under 20 grand
[16:46] <Kerbero> ok
[16:46] <Kerbero> that is a good price
[16:46] <Kerbero> i think we were quoted 33k for an HP one
[16:46] <Symmetria> put it this way, 19 and a half thousand ports (gigE POE+ ports) + 11 40 port 10gig/1gig aggregation switches + 11 distribution routers capable of 80gigabit/second per router
[16:46] <Symmetria> = 8.1 million
[16:46] <Kerbero> but i think it might have been 48 ports
[16:46] <Symmetria> thats way more than the junipers bought at volume
[16:47] <Symmetria> lemme check something quick
[16:47] <inetpro> Symmetria: very interesting
[16:48] <inetpro> any idea when you will be able to drop IPv4?
[16:49] <Symmetria> inetpro technically we could drop v4 internally other than on the proxies in a matter of a month or 2
[16:49] <inetpro> cool
[16:49] <inetpro> but I guess in reality that is not gonna happen for some time?
[16:50] <Kerbero> but that will force you to use the proxies for all ipv4 services
[16:51] <Kerbero> which is not nice for stuff like ssh/pop/imap
[16:51] <Symmetria> kerbero well, we could translate as well
[16:51] <Symmetria> from v6 to v4
[16:51] <Symmetria> but I'd rather not do that
[16:51] <Symmetria> hrm, kerbero
[16:51] <Symmetria> those 48 ports for 33 grand
[16:51] <Symmetria> were they PoE or not?
[16:51] <Kerbero> hmm
[16:52] <Symmetria> because that makes a fair difference in price
[16:52] <Kerbero> now that i think about it it may be yes
[16:52] <Kerbero> "for voip phones"
[16:52] <Symmetria> ok
[16:52] <Symmetria> well, bought in bulk...
[16:53] <Symmetria> the 48 port PoE 2200s
[16:53] <Symmetria> are around 16 grand each
[16:53] <Symmetria> :p
[16:53] <Kerbero> juniper would still have been cheaper?
[16:53] <Symmetria> and the non-PoE would have been around 10 grand each :p
[16:53] <Symmetria> and those are 48 port
[16:54] <Symmetria> :p
[16:54] <Kerbero> wow
[16:54] <Kerbero> but yes, bulk...
[16:54] <Symmetria> bulk doesnt mean INSANE quantities either
[16:54] <Symmetria> lemem check something
[16:54]  * Kerbero is regretting his decision to buy a "Tenda" 24 port gigabit switch for R1.5k
[16:54] <Kerbero> :P
[16:54] <Kerbero> cheaps switches are cheap
[16:54] <Kerbero> and crap
[16:55] <Kerbero> i would've loved an juniper
[16:55] <Symmetria> heh you're looking at buying around 30 to get that price :p
[16:55] <Symmetria> lol
[16:55] <Symmetria> but even if you buy ONE 
[16:55] <Symmetria> its not that much more
[16:55]  * Symmetria checks
[16:55] <Symmetria> goes to about 13 grand for the non-poe version
[16:56] <Symmetria> around 20 grand for the poe version
[16:56] <Kerbero> and that's 48 port
[16:56] <Symmetria> of course if you want one that supports stacking, virtualization, and every routing protocol under the sun, it goes up a fair bit, but that will do just fine as a good edge switch
[16:56] <Symmetria> yeah
[16:56] <inetpro> Symmetria: I don't get why you needed so much more IPv4 space, you say you were granted a /15 chunk?
[16:56] <inetpro> that is like 131,070 hosts
[16:56] <Kerbero> replacing the NAT's
[16:57] <Symmetria> inetpro, we had to renumber an entire network of 19 and a half thousand wired ports + 200 buildings worth of wireless ap's
[16:57] <inetpro> all those addresses on a public network?
[16:57] <Symmetria> heh, and each AP needs a fair amount of space to assign outta
[16:57] <Kerbero> Symmetria: can't one not just NAT ipv4 and route ipv6?
[16:57] <Symmetria> inetpro every single one of them
[16:57] <Symmetria> Kerbero no, NAT isnt practical at 10gigabit speeds
[16:57] <Kerbero> hehe ok
[16:57] <Symmetria> and NAT breaks other innovations we are rolling on that campus
[16:58] <Kerbero> but wifi...
[16:58] <Kerbero> o ok
[16:58] <Symmetria> Kerbero multicast through nat? :) I think not
[16:58] <Kerbero> hehe no
[16:58] <Kerbero> our switches block multicast anyway
[16:58] <Kerbero> :(
[16:58] <Symmetria> wtf?!
[16:58] <Symmetria> why on EARTH would they block multicast
[16:59] <Kerbero> we had to get the setting removed on some to get norton ghost to work
[16:59] <Symmetria> heh, dude, if you have to see some of the things we are doing with multicast at UFS 
[16:59] <Symmetria> you would fall over and die 
[16:59] <Symmetria> :p
[16:59] <inetpro> wow
[16:59] <Symmetria> heh, within the next coupla days you are going to be able to open vlc on any pc on the campus
[16:59] <Symmetria> and go "show me a full list of SAP streams from Internet2/GEANT"
[16:59] <Kerbero> and, another thing, the one factory default settings HP we have can't handle multicast correctly so it just broadcasts
[16:59] <Symmetria> and get around 50 video streams you can double click on and watch
[16:59] <Symmetria> :p
[17:00] <Symmetria> Kerbero thats extremely easy to fix, we fixed that at UFS in about 2 minutes
[17:00] <Kerbero> hehe
[17:00] <Kerbero> yeah, as soon as i reset the password :P
[17:01] <Kerbero> and yes, we also have some multicast video streams we test with
[17:01] <Kerbero> DVB-T2 + dvblast
[17:01] <Symmetria> heh Kerbero we arent talking one or 2 here, we're talking about high def stuff coming straight outta internet2 
[17:01] <Kerbero> cool
[17:01] <Symmetria> heh, we're also playing with video on demand technology
[17:02] <Kerbero> working with some of the SA service providers?
[17:02] <Symmetria> and attempting to convince certain providers of certain content to let us POC multicasting their content
[17:02] <Symmetria> heh we're working with a lot of people
[17:02] <Kerbero> ahh
[17:02] <Symmetria> Kerbero the idea that Louis and I are working with is to attempt to try a TON of innovative things
[17:02] <Kerbero> it is anyway only beneficial to them to make students used to their service
[17:02] <Symmetria> and basically take that network to the bleeding edge 
[17:02] <Symmetria> Kerbero we have a better argument for it
[17:03] <Symmetria> full access to VoD and multicasted content like that will result in a reduction of piracy
[17:03] <Kerbero> indeed
[17:04] <Kerbero> but then you need the content asap after it is aired in the states
[17:04] <Symmetria> :) working on that as well
[17:04] <Symmetria> point is, NAT isnt practical 
[17:04] <Symmetria> it breaks tons and tons of crap
[17:05] <Kerbero> but all those services runs on v6
[17:05] <Symmetria> Kerbero heh, I only wish that were totally true
[17:05] <Kerbero> sorry for my bad tenses
[17:05] <Kerbero> ok
[17:05] <Symmetria> inter-as ipv6 multicast is still... a tad broken :)
[17:05] <Kerbero> :(
[17:05] <Symmetria> and virtually entirely unsupported on HP gear 
[17:05] <Symmetria> :p
[17:05] <Kerbero> hahaha
[17:05] <Symmetria> then again, HP gear doesnt support much
[17:06] <Symmetria> their implementation of OSPF and BGP would be a classic example
[17:06] <Symmetria> their BGP implementation leaves out around 50% of whats in the RFC
[17:06] <Kerbero> but their kickback cheques are big :P
[17:06] <Symmetria> and their OSPF implementation doesnt even support authentication of areas 
[17:07] <Symmetria> *shrug* my view on this is there are basically 4 vendors that play in this market that are worth touching
[17:07] <Symmetria> a.) Juniper
[17:07] <Symmetria> b.) Cisco
[17:07] <Symmetria> c.) Brocade 
[17:07] <Symmetria> d.) Huawei
[17:07] <Symmetria> and they all have their pros and cons
[17:07] <Symmetria> cisco is insanely expensive and does nothing more than the junipers do 
[17:08] <Kerbero> ahh, i wanted to ask you about Huawei
[17:08] <Kerbero> are they any good
[17:08] <Symmetria> brocade may not be that pricey, but you are going to struggle to find support for it in .za
[17:08] <Kerbero> nice chinese backdoor for your network
[17:08] <Symmetria> and hauwei, the gear works, but good luck if you ever need any help with it 
[17:08] <Kerbero> ahh ok
[17:08] <Symmetria> you'll get a half trained person who speaks chinglish who refers everything to china where he speaks chinese to them and you get a translation
[17:09] <Symmetria> and if you think Im kidding you should see some of their written documentation :)
[17:09] <Symmetria> basically, hauwei works real well if you speak fluent mandarin :p
[17:10] <Symmetria> oh, there is a 5th vendor
[17:10] <Symmetria> alcatel
[17:10] <Symmetria> make no mistake, their gear works, its extremely stable and it has the features
[17:10] <Symmetria> *IF* you have the patience to deal with the most complex, horrible, god aweful cli you have ever seen in your entire life
[17:10] <Symmetria> :p
[17:10] <Symmetria> they have lost several deals because engineers point blank refuse to deal with that interface
[17:11] <Kerbero> ai
[17:11] <Kerbero> alcatel sound south african
[17:11] <Kerbero> *sounds
[17:11] <Symmetria> *shrug* but cisco/juniper/alcatel I would actually recon are the 3 to look at
[17:11] <Symmetria> alcatel is french
[17:11] <Symmetria> huge company
[17:11] <Kerbero> ok
[17:11] <Symmetria> make very very very good submarine cable gear
[17:11] <Kerbero> i've heard of them before
[17:11] <Kerbero> ahh
[17:11] <Kerbero> yes
[17:11] <Kerbero> seacom
[17:12]  * inetpro wbb
[17:12] <Symmetria> they also make some very good dwdm / telco gear
[17:12] <Kerbero> right?
[17:12] <Symmetria> nah, WACS
[17:12] <Kerbero> ok
[17:12] <Symmetria> seacom is a hauwei system
[17:12] <Kerbero> ok
[17:12] <Symmetria> *shrug* if my clients ask me to recommend options to them
[17:12] <Kerbero> so if i learn how to use hauwei's i'll get a job?
[17:12] <Symmetria> and they want multiple options cause they havent made their eq choice
[17:13] <Symmetria> I always recommend looking at cisco, juniper and alcatel as the three top ones
[17:13] <Symmetria> kerbero heh, if you wanna go work up in africa probably, not so much in south africa
[17:13] <Symmetria> I only really know of one company using their stuff in africa
[17:13] <Symmetria> well, southern africa that is
[17:13] <Kerbero> o
[17:13] <Kerbero> well
[17:13] <Kerbero> stb campus core router is hauwei
[17:14] <Symmetria> heh stellenbosch runs hauwei core? seriously?
[17:14] <Symmetria> that I didnt know
[17:14] <Kerbero> i'll post you a traceroute in a while
[17:15] <Kerbero> they changed the hostnames :(
[17:15] <Symmetria> :P why, did it used to say chinese.crackpot.cisco.ripoff.equipment.sun.ac.za?
[17:15] <Symmetria> :p
[17:15] <Kerbero> indeed :P
[17:16] <Kerbero> and you'll laugh when you see this traceroute
[17:16] <Kerbero> the private ranges it is routed through
[17:16] <Symmetria> heh why the hell is stellenbosch natting anything
[17:16] <Symmetria> they have an entire /16
[17:17] <Symmetria> sad :P
[17:17] <Kerbero> i don't think it's nat
[17:17] <Kerbero> just routed through some backbone with that IP range
[17:17] <Symmetria> wtf would they 10, their backbone range
[17:21] <Kilos> wow you guys been busy, ill never get through all of this
[17:23] <Symmetria> hehe
[17:24] <Kerbero> Kilos: dis ok, ek verstaan nie eers alles wat gese^ is nie
[17:24] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[17:25] <Symmetria> haha
[17:25] <Symmetria> :P en ek kan nie a woord van afrikaans praat of verstaan nie, so as jy dit praat, sal almal van ons niks verstaan nie :p
[17:25]  * Symmetria goes for a smoke with that thought
[17:25] <Kerbero> cool sentence Symmetria 
[17:25] <Kilos> hehe
[17:34] <magespawn> strained the brain on that one
[17:36] <sakhi> We had Brocade for our virtual environment it worked well but yes it has some limitations I agree, the Nexus 5K is doing a better job however I would like to introduce Juniper to up the game.
[17:36] <Symmetria> sakhi if you guys want juniper
[17:36] <Symmetria> you need to talk to me
[17:37] <Symmetria> I have deals in place to get the stuff at *HUGE* discounts for the academic sector
[17:37] <magespawn> http://za.pycon.org/ anybody going?
[17:38] <Kerbero> i'm thinking about going
[17:38] <superfly> magespawn: maybe... trying to see if I can get my boss to give a talk
[17:39] <magespawn> mmm the benefits of living in the cape, lucky fish
[17:42] <Symmetria> anyway gonna go watch some tv and take a break from mindbending ipv6 crap
[17:42] <Symmetria> :p
[17:42] <Symmetria> well ipsec v6 crap :)
[17:42] <sakhi> Symmetria: not a bad idea to have juniper on the Internet facing infrastructure that is where I can motivate best otherwise networking falls in the another department which doesn't make sense, 
[17:43] <Symmetria> sakhi heh, well, as I said, we can talk
[17:43] <Symmetria> there are a number of options
[17:43] <Symmetria> if I were you, I'd also look at getting more ip space while there is still some available
[17:43] <Symmetria> as well as getting an ASN and getting some PI v6 space
[17:44] <Symmetria> and if you're interested in working on all of that, let me know and I can quote you on a formal consultation or whatever you can take internally or whatever :)
[18:24] <magespawn> anyone else using a htc android?
[18:27] <magespawn> i just installed Go Launcher Ex, it replaces or rather add the option to use it instead of the HTC Sense
[18:33] <magespawn> it adds a whole load of options, I am using it on a HTC Flyer, very c9ol
[18:33] <magespawn> cool
[18:44] <superfly> magespawn: yeah, I'm using that on my Kindle Fire\
[18:44] <superfly> sometimes it is a little irritating, but most of the time it's very nice
[18:45] <superfly> and the classic theme is the best
[18:50] <magespawn> the sense i found quite limiting
[18:53] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight
[19:13]  * Squirm pops in
[19:17] <magespawn> i am also off tonight, night all
[19:18] <Symmetria> gnight magespawn
[19:21] <Squirm> night magespawn