[06:51] <christel> rawr
[07:31] <diplo> Morning all
[07:31] <christel> lo diplo
[07:34] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:48] <diplo> Morning christel / brobostigon : Good weekends ?
[07:50] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Who wants to rate my rack? http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/
[08:03] <popey> morning
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[08:06] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer and popey
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> how's it going brobostigon?
[08:07] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not so hot. and you?
[08:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm good thanks. Had a great - and very hot - weekend (West Dean Chilli Fiesta).
[08:08] <brobostigon> :)
[08:09] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:09] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
[08:13] <popey> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/blackberry-playbook-tablet-pc-64-gb-129-currys-1294090 cheap tab...
[08:19] <Oli> popey: Yeah I'm trying to weigh it up against a nexus 7
[08:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Think the Playbook is a dead duck imho
[08:21] <brobostigon> qnx is as smooth as a baby bottom though. and quite stable.
[08:22] <popey> so would android be with zero apps
[08:23] <Oli> The thing swaying me towards a N7 is that I have an Android phone with a couple of dozen paid apps that would benefit from being run on a tablet.
[08:23] <Oli> But if I only wanted something to wheel around a ton of media, the Playbook would win hands down.
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a customer that bought into the Playbook and regretted it ever since.
[08:25] <Oli> Well you would if you paid full price before BB went postal on it.
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah quite.
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Same with the HP TP.
[08:25] <Oli> Same with the HP WebOS stu.... beat me to it :)
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:25]  * TheOpenSourcerer has a TP
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> But it only cost £100
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> WebOS is actually quite nice to use but as popey said with no apps it's not terribly useful.
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> I got a free Galaxy Tab 10.1 with my S3 and that is used all the time now.
[08:27] <diplo> Blimey, a free tablet with a phone.. not a bad deal
[08:27] <diplo> :)
[08:27] <Oli> Yeah, I had a N900. I'm familiar with the Good-OS—Awful-Support model.
[08:28] <Oli> *have. I have a N900. Not used for anything more than an in-car iPod these days.
[08:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: It was a great deal. the first 1000 customers with CPW for the S3 when it launched.
[08:28] <Oli> How much did you end up paying for the S3 though?
[08:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> £36/m
[08:29] <Oli> I'll give you a free datacenter if you pay me a few billion pounds for a laptop.
[08:29] <mattt> i'd like one of the 7" tabs
[08:29]  * popey hugs ipad
[08:29] <diplo> mattt: The Nexus 7 ?
[08:29] <Oli> popey: Get that filth out of here.
[08:30] <popey> :)
[08:30] <mattt> diplo: no, samsung :)
[08:30] <mattt> i'd happily take the nexus too tho
[08:31] <diplo> I was going to ask in here later when it got busy what tabs people had
[08:31] <Oli> I don't really understand the allure of the SGTs. They're ancient, expensive and don't use the same screen tech as the phones do.
[08:31] <diplo> I don't have a lot of money and the Nexus 7 is really tempting, but don't know anyone who has one yet
[08:32]  * brobostigon hugs his nexus7.
[08:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Plenty of peeps on Twitter.
[08:33]  * AlanBell wonders how well the playbook plays with Ubuntu for music transfer stuff
[08:33] <oimon> i've already seen more nexus 7s than i've seen ipads
[08:34] <diplo> yeah just people I feel I 'know' a bit better i guess
[08:34] <mattt> diplo: same
[08:34] <mattt> diplo: only thing i'm concerned with is ending up with something inferior (and useless) like a netbook
[08:34] <oimon> maybe the price made it an impulse purcahse for many
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> any piece of "gadget" tech will be obsolete in a couple of years.
[08:36] <oimon> or quicker if lots of people on here have it (eee pc, joggler, rasp pi )
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
[08:37] <diplo> As long as it works well I'm fine, then it's the decision of 8/16GB :)
[08:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's just a question of "preparing" yourself for the short lifespan of your shiny new toy.
[08:39] <popey> yay, sophie has no ballet on saturday so i can go camping earlier in the day
[08:40]  * TheOpenSourcerer is off to Swansea for a golf and drinking weekend on Fri :-)
[08:40] <popey> i may go to swanage
[08:42] <christel>    
[08:42] <christel> hi
[08:42] <czajkowski> popey: find a place to go camping with the kids
[08:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> There is a very nice camp site not too far away - stayed there a few years ago... http://www.theinsidepark.co.uk/
[08:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Near Blandford
[08:43] <christel>   
[08:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:48] <popey> czajkowski, i am
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> gunzip
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> ooops
[08:52]  * popey decompresses all over the channel
[08:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> ewww.
[09:01] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Up in Mumbles?
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Huh daubers
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> ?
[09:01] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: The golfing thing :)
[09:01] <daubers> The only golf course near swansea I know of is on the Gower
[09:02] <daubers> (very nice area the Gower, and Mumbles. Swansea itself is a bit of a concrete disaster)
[09:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh - Dunno. Hang on. Checking email from aorganiser
[09:02] <diplo> daubers: Was there myself a few weeks ago
[09:02] <diplo> Very nice
[09:02] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: If you end up in Mumbles, go to Verdi's for ice cream. Best. Ice. Cream. Ever.
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pennard GC, Gower G.C, Langland Bay GC
[09:04] <daubers> Yep, all on the Gower :)
[09:05] <daubers> Langland Bay is really nice. Normally full of surfers and kite surfers
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
[09:06]  * daubers spent many days he should have been in lectures on the various beaches around the Gower
[09:15] <AlanBell> I have been to the gower. Worst holiday evar.
[09:16] <AlanBell> not the fault of the place as such (apart from the dire mobile reception)
[09:16] <daubers> heh, they didn't really have mobiles in the 70's you know
[09:17] <BigRedS> Anyone know of a cloudy™ service that'll slave MySQL as a sort of backup/dr thingy? So I'd set up mysql rep to it and they'd take regular dumps or do whatever's necessary to give the illusion of a robust backup?
[09:17] <AlanBell> verdi's is certainly the place for ice cream
[09:17] <BigRedS> Obvious solution is a VPS with MySQL on it, but I'm wondering how little of this can be my problem :)
[09:18] <diplo> BigRedS: I'd say the same thing about VPS, with our customer sites I rsync data nad mysqldump out mysql to a local work server daily
[09:18] <diplo> But haven't set up replication of any sort yet
[09:20] <AlanBell> BigRedS: I think mysql replication is pull replication, which means they have to be able to connect to the master, not the other way round
[09:20] <BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah
[09:20] <BigRedS> but that'd be work-roundable.
[09:21] <AlanBell> I looked at it a while back, but ended up throwing mysql dump files outbound rather than have an inbound connection
[09:21]  * BigRedS ponders starting a cloudy mysql backup service based on replicating other people's dbs for them
[09:21]  * AlanBell ponders same. With Galcier as a back end
[09:22] <BigRedS> Haha, is that any good?
[09:22] <BigRedS> I did a bunch of stuff with EC2 about a year ago and the thing that made me leave was the atrocious I/O
[09:22] <AlanBell> Glacier, Amazon's new store stuff forever service.
[09:22] <BigRedS> Oh, yeah, that one
[09:22] <BigRedS> I was thinking about the new fast-I/O thing
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-to-drop-alternate-installer-1676906.html
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Could be interesting. The Alternate is often very useful when trying to install on systems with dodgy graphics or other non-standard h/w that the standard installer fails to recognise correctly.
[09:46] <brobostigon> interesting move, yes.
[09:47] <BigRedS> what? That's a dumb idea
[09:50] <jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: but the netboot has the same properties, no ?
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> dunno jussi - not used that one. I find the Alternate very useful. Never needed netboot iirc
[09:51] <Oli> I wish they'd just make bigger discs for things. A 60cm diameter, dual-layer BluRay disk would store 1.4TB.
[09:51] <jussi> yeah, I read the thread in question here, and it seems netboot was the way to do it then.
[09:51] <AlanBell> well if there isn't an alternate, then maybe the standard installer will be improved to work on such systems
[09:52] <AlanBell> server CD will also work fine, then install ubuntu-desktop
[09:52] <jussi> true that
[09:52] <jussi> or they could just introduce tasksel on the server cd (if it isnt there already and have the desktop as one of those options)
[09:53] <jussi> like the ubuntu studio cd's used to have.
[09:53] <Oli> It's the offline low-end installs (which I gather are fairly frequent in developing countries) that are going to get hit by something like that.
[09:54] <Oli> They'd need to ship a separate repo-on-cd around with the desktop stuff on. Possible but harder than the current install process.
[09:54] <jussi> Oli: yeah, thats true enough
[09:55] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, er, no alternate installer means no net install means no more ubuntu in the office
[09:58] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:58] <jussi> davmor2: !
[09:59] <jussi> davmor2: I see you were credited twice in the Diaspora thankyou list :D
[09:59] <jussi> (I assume it is you and you dont have a double...)
[09:59] <czajkowski> one of davmor2 is more than enough
[10:00] <directhex> huh, kubuntu etc will still offer D-I
[10:00] <jussi> hehe
[10:00] <arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
[10:00] <davmor2> jussi: I'm not even on it
[10:00] <jussi> oh LOL
[10:01] <jussi> lemme find the email - PM your email addy :D
[10:01] <arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
[10:01] <popey> directhex, net installer isn't being ditched
[10:01] <popey> the 'mini' iso
[10:02] <davmor2> jussi: I made a post on g+ thanking everyone who makes oggcamp rock even though I wasn't there, that might of been passed on by members of dis
[10:02] <directhex> popey, so pxeboot with d-i will still be offered?
[10:03] <popey> we d-i isnt going away
[10:03] <popey> just the big fat alternate cd
[10:04] <arsen> eugh silly irssi.
[10:04] <arsen> having a problem with NIS/NFS, when trying to chown an existing file on NFS(v4) share to a NIS user:group, it instead changes it to nobody:nobody :/ anyone seen this?
[10:06] <dwatkins> arsen: does the user and group exist with the same IDs on both systems?
[10:06] <BigRedS> diplo: exactly.
[10:08] <arsen> well it does via NFS, dwatkins
[10:08] <arsen> er, NIS, sorry.
[10:09] <dwatkins> arsen: and both systems allow local files to have ownership set like this?
[10:09] <dwatkins> i.e. they identify correctly
[10:10] <arsen> yeah
[10:11] <arsen> just tested
[10:13] <dwatkins> hmm, non-matching UID/GID are the only thing I can think of in this situation, arsen - unless you have options set on the filesystem in /etc/exports on the server to specify UID/GID explicitly.
[10:13] <arsen> hm thats what i was thinking about unmatched uid/gid, but as they're both authing successfully through NIS id of assumed that works
[10:13] <davmor2> directhex: the mini.iso isn't going away
[10:16] <dwatkins> arsen: I assume you're checking the files with 'ls -n'
[10:16] <dwatkins> i.e. to show numerical UID/GID
[10:19] <arsen> when yuo say checking, im reading them from locally and remote via nfs - both share the same numerical id's yeah.
[10:21] <arsen> but the uid matches nobody:nobody on the nfs server
[10:26] <dwatkins> so the NFS server isn't respecting the UID you're setting. I'd check its options in /etc/exports and the daemon options too.
[10:27] <arsen> yeah strange (it works for 20+ other clients)
[10:27] <dwatkins> What's different about this one, then?
[10:27] <arsen> :)
[10:28] <dwatkins> is it definitely joined to NIS properly, for one thing?
[10:28] <arsen> yeah, logged in successfuly with a NIS user, nis works fine on local stuff
[10:29] <arsen> typically when nis isnt configured i find it will list lal files as nobody:nobody, until you set NIS a higher priority in nsswitch.conf
[10:29] <arsen> so following that being fixed, it pulls permissions correctly, its now just a problem when trying to apply permissions
[10:29] <dwatkins> it shows the correct NIS master as well, I assume.
[10:30] <arsen> yeha.
[10:32] <dwatkins> I'm stumped. Have you asked on #ubuntu?
[10:32] <arsen> not yet, i will do shortly
[10:32] <arsen> a cup of tea might solve this.
[10:32] <dwatkins> tea++
[10:32] <dwatkins> Did you switch it off then on again? ;)
[10:33] <arsen> yeah a few times :<
[10:33] <dwatkins> yeah, that's not really a solution to most of my problems either
[10:33] <arsen> i even sporadically restarted random services
[10:40]  * daubers hates writing documentation
[12:03] <oimon> i enjoy it daubers, but only on fridays
[12:23] <oimon> i need a live iso with KDE4.9 on it - anyone suggest anything?
[15:13] <Mez> Signup for Coventry Global Jam is up ... http://ugj-cov.eventbrite.co.uk/
[16:10] <popey> gord, did you pay for sublime?
[16:10] <popey> also, do you have it in your launcher etc?
[16:16] <gord> popey, nope and don't use it. tried to get in to it but i always go back to vim
[16:16] <gord> more to do with my lazyness than a comment on the software really
[16:19] <Monotoko> evenin' all
[16:19] <Lorra> hi
[16:22] <popey> heh
[16:58] <extrasolar> How do you like your toast in the morning?
[17:10] <`Cat`> burnt beyond recognition
[17:11] <extrasolar> I like mine with a hug
[17:12] <extrasolar> Dark or light the worlds alright as long as I get my hug
[17:13] <`Cat`> =)
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> Burned?
[17:14] <extrasolar> lol burned
[17:14] <extrasolar> is that a word now?
[17:19]  * davmor2 is currently enjoying placebos rendition of running up that hill (Kate Bush classic)
[17:21] <extrasolar> I like pure morning, good song
[17:21] <popey> oooooookay
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> evening popey
[17:23] <popey> pip pip
[17:23] <davmor2> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo it's nice
[17:24] <davmor2> popey: it's kinda eerie and a bit edgy and yet mellow at the same time
[17:25] <popey> she scares me
[17:25] <davmor2> popey: Kate Bush or Placebo
[17:25] <davmor2> popey: or czajkowski or christel
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: if you really want to be scared, http://www.youtube.com/user/wzr0713
[17:29] <christel> davmor2: are you saying i am scary? :o
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> christel: is he wrong?
[17:33] <christel> yes :(
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> But how can we be sure?
[17:34] <christel> spend a night with me in a haunted house and you'll see!
[17:34]  * christel nods
[17:35]  * MartijnVdS imagines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA
[18:04] <davmor2> christel: you were one of the only She's that I knew could take a joke that was in hte channel to be honest :)  I think your a harmless little kitty cat myself and not at all scary :D  But then I've had years of beatings off czajkowski so I would :)
[18:05]  * christel purrs sweetly
[18:09]  * davmor2 remembers getting blagged by a cat like this before with claw marks most of the way down my arms :D
[18:10]  * christel smirks
[18:11] <Dave2> :o
[19:02]  * TheOpenS1 is on IRC direct from Thunderbird 15 :-)
[19:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - seems to chop my username a bit ;-)
[19:10] <davmor2> yeah but who needs usernames right
[19:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, not sure about Thunderbird's implementation. Not enough tweaking options... I want the timeline the other way round... I want to see all the tweet and not a truncated version of it (why is it doing that anyway?)
[19:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Makes me realise just how cool Hotot really is.
[19:14] <christel> i parsed Hotot as "Hotornot"
[19:15] <TheOpenS1> The IRC layout in TB is much better than for Twitter.
[19:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then I guess it being written in XUL anyone can make a new theme for it... Interesting idea. Not sure how I like having all my conversation stuff in one app yet. Could be good or it be a PITA.
[19:49] <davmor2> Okay I couldn't stay away you cheer me up to much now bring on the funny
[19:53] <SuperEngineer> davmor2: for funny [& sense] - tune into the Ubuntu UK Podcast
[19:55] <davmor2> Nah I'm on my phone here there is a limit to what I can do
[19:55] <SuperEngineer> davmor2: :(
[20:12] <christel> ah but you only need one hand to type!
[20:22] <davmor2> Yeah the other is obviously holding the phone
[20:22]  * christel nods
[20:23] <AlanBell> any more people coming for a beer in Farnham? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1906/detail/
[20:27] <davmor2> Anyway people I'm off this works well :)
[20:28] <christel> you scared him away!
[20:28] <AlanBell> yes, I am very scary :(
[20:29] <christel> yes, i know :(
[20:31] <christel> i want icecream
[20:31]  * bigcalm pounces
[20:33] <AlanBell> like an Essex tiger
[20:33] <bigcalm> Tiger?
[20:33] <AlanBell> no, that was a lion wasn't it
[20:33] <jacobw> lion
[20:33] <bigcalm> So I hear
[20:33] <AlanBell> tiggers pounce
[20:33] <bigcalm> Well, they bounce
[20:33] <bigcalm> This much we know
[20:33] <AlanBell> the wonderful thing about tiggers is tiggers are wonderful things
[20:34] <christel> BIGCLAM
[20:34] <AlanBell> They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy Fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!
[20:34] <bigcalm> tee eye double guh uh
[20:34] <bigcalm> christel!!!!!!!!one
[20:35] <christel> but the most wonderful thing about tiggers is i am the only one! :P
[20:35] <AlanBell> "They're loaded with vim and with vigor" not emacs !!!
[20:35] <christel> haha
[20:35] <bigcalm> There's only one christel
[20:35] <bigcalm> Heh
[20:35] <christel> (and they love to leap in your laps!)
[20:36] <bigcalm> Tiggers or christels?
[20:36] <christel> tiggers silly!
[20:36] <bigcalm> I always felt sad for Tigger that he was the only one
[20:37] <christel> christels dont leap :x
[20:37] <bigcalm> Heh
[20:44] <bigcalm> christel: welcome home my dear :)
[20:48] <christel> THANK YOU DARLING THANK YOU
[20:48] <christel> did you miss me? :D
[20:49] <bigcalm> Always do. Who else is to keep the sanity around here?
[20:52] <christel> you're the sweetest
[20:53]  * bigcalm hugs his beer mug
[20:53] <bigcalm> Dare I have a 2nd pint on a school night?
[20:54] <AlanBell> one pint of vodka is probably enough
[20:54] <bigcalm> AlanBell: aww, one for the road guvnor?
[20:55] <AlanBell> oh go on then
[20:55] <bigcalm> Working from home means the morning commute is hell
[21:06] <dwatkins> Watch out for Lego on the floor, bigcalm.
[21:08] <bigcalm> dwatkins: I haven't played with lego for a good 20 years :(
[21:08] <bigcalm> Maybe I should do something about that
[21:08] <dwatkins> bigcalm: ok, plugs then? ;)
[21:08] <dwatkins> I have a Lego phone holder or four.
[21:08] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:08] <dwatkins> I built cases for my Raspberry Pi and Arduino out of Lego, too.
[21:12] <SuperEngineer> me wantte: http://tinyurl.com/ubuntu-preloaded-keyboard
[21:16] <bigcalm> Cute
[21:17] <bigcalm> There's scope for a lot of hardware inside a keyboard case
[21:20] <dwatkins> I think Commodore made a PC inna keyboard.
[21:20] <mgdm> Indeed
[21:22] <ali1234> it's been tried several times before
[21:22] <ali1234> but nobody buys them because you can't fit any decent hardware in that form factor unless you are willing to pay macbook air prices
[21:22] <ali1234> and anyone willing to do that just buys a macbook air
[21:23] <dwatkins> I connected my IBM Model M to my Macbook this evening, it worked well now I have an adapter cable.
[21:23] <dwatkins> It's like driving a tank, though.
[21:23] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... someone seems unaware of possibilities here...
[21:23] <bigcalm> Noisy keys of the world unite!
[21:24] <dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, I was discussing it with a colleague, he has clearly never been in a room with one
[21:24] <dwatkins> possibilities, SuperEngineer?
[21:24] <SuperEngineer> deliberate
[21:24] <bigcalm> dwatkins: I ordered a Modle M clone from Unicomp in the States. Hayley hates it, I love it :D
[21:25] <dwatkins> bigcalm: egg boxes on the walls ;)
[21:25] <bigcalm> Unicomp is actually the company that made the Model M in the 1st place
[21:27] <mgdm> I hate model Ms
[21:28] <mgdm> I seem to be in the minority, here, but I find them horrible to type on, far too noisy, and painful to use
[21:28] <mgdm> Give me a thinkpad keyboard, or at a stretch, a Mac one
[21:33] <SuperEngineer> time for bed, said Zebedee ;)
[21:33] <SuperEngineer> boiiiinnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg
[21:34] <bigcalm> I really should book phpnw and a hotel
[21:35] <bigcalm> I()->love()->chaining()->methods
[21:35] <bigcalm> ()
[21:37] <mgdm> just wait till you get 5.4
[21:37] <bigcalm> Oh?
[21:37] <mgdm> $you->can()->chain()['and']-dereference()->in()[1]; !
[21:39] <bigcalm> Accessing returned arrays directly from the method call?! Yay. Something I miss from Perl
[21:47] <bigcalm> Hazar. My code catches Exceptions sensibly at last
[21:48] <bigcalm> Tomorrow shall be horribly unproductive as I have to write unit and functional tests
[21:49] <bigcalm> Actually, I see the rest of the week being like that
[21:49] <bigcalm> Who thought that testing would be a good idea?
[21:51] <bigcalm> 2 pints of bitter say that I don't do testing now :D