pleia2LVM and RAID are the reason I use the alt, but 95% of the people I recommend it to use it because the graphical one won't load00:01
knomemicahg, if having cryptsetup means the user will be able to enrypt anything, then i suppose very slim. i've been in favor of dropping alt's too, but pleia2, Unit193 and others have raised concerns; based on those and my limited knowledge of all the use cases alt could have, i haven't made a final decision yet, but decided to leave it as it is00:01
pleia2will server still have an alt? Not sure how you'd do an install over ssh with ubiquity00:02
micahgyeah, I think so00:02
micahgbut server might not be i38600:02
micahgthere's always netboot00:02
knomeand mini00:02
knomewhich i have been proposing for the alternative for alternate00:03
knomethis would also mean less effort needed for testing.00:03
pleia2I'm also a grumpy old debian sysadmin so I <3 the d-i00:04
knomepleia2, your marketing target audience didn't specify an age group00:04
knomepleia2, how often do you recommend the alt to people since the graphical installer isn't loading?00:06
* micahg would suggest testing early and often to get the GUI installer working00:07
knomeyes; alternate images are partly dragging the testing too00:08
pleia2I don't have metrics to give a useful answer to that, and I admit that I don't do any debugging when it "doesn't work" since recommending the alt is usually the right answer00:08
pleia2at least, it's the much easier one with a non-technical user00:08
knomesince we don't have non-PAE support in 12.10-> either, doesn't that already rule out some of the oldest machines, which are probably the ones that will not run the graphical installer?00:08
knomeand actually pointing people to rather use the mini installer and just do "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" isn't *too* hard00:09
pleia2well, if mini will keep the alternate installer, I guess your solution to tell them to use tat and install xubuntu-desktop is ok00:09
knomethere is no alt/desktop for mini00:09
knomemini is... mini.00:09
pleia2ok, if mini will keep the debian installer... :)00:10
knomewhy wouldn't it?00:10
knomeit doesn't come with X packages00:10
ubottuThe Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD00:10
pleia2I don't know, people do crazy things00:10
knomeUbuntu 12.04 "Precise Pangolin" Minimal CD 27MB*00:10
pleia2they could put ubiquity on the cd and just not install the shiny bits00:11
knomeas if...00:11
pleia2I don't actually know how big ubiquity+dependencies are :)00:11
pleia2maybe it's secretly small00:11
knomeif we drop the alt, and cryptsetup/LVM/RAID doesn't work for 12.10, how much do we lose?00:12
knomeit's the release after LTS, this is the place to do things like this00:13
knomethey will probably get it fixed by next LRS00:13
* knome knocks wood00:13
pleia2loss of LVM would be :(00:13
pleia2I use it a lot00:13
micahgLVM supposedly works, why not try it now00:13
knomeLVM should work00:13
GridCubeI think that the big topic here is what do WE want, do we want to be a distribution aimed to old specs hardware, or we aim to be a full equiped alternative, standard paradigmatic, distribution aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"00:19
GridCubealternate disks are fine, but i've found using them on newer machines is useless00:19
Unit193I have a 500MHz, 512M, 10G comp that has support for PAE, it doesn't count out all ones that don't take Ubiquity as well.00:20
knomesupporting older hardware is fine, but with not having a kernel supporting non-PAE already means we will lose some userbase00:20
knomeUnit193, but does it work with the graphical installer?00:20
GridCubeknome, yes, thats where the decision has to come00:20
pleia2closer to the latter according to our strategy document (but I don't agree we're "aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"")00:21
knomeso, even if we had the alternate disks, there's no way to support those machins with no PAE00:21
GridCubeMy semi-modern netbook wont recognize the wireless network card on alternate, but it does on desktop iso's00:21
knomeyes, i wrote an article about it too: http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/19/xubuntu-is-not-a-refugee-camp/00:21
Unit193Well, if we drop alternate, we have to test mini and install xubuntu-desktop to see if we get the same things.00:22
pleia2we dropped our "aimed to old specs hardware" thing a couple years ago ;) I point people to lubuntu00:22
knomeUnit193, of course, but that's a lot easier than testing two alt images of about 700MB00:22
pleia2and alt keeps breaking so then micahg^Wsomeone has to fix it :\00:23
knomeyeah, will probably keep breaking more after ubuntu drops support00:23
pleia2yeah, that's my fear00:23
knomeunless you meant exactly that00:23
pleia2pretty sure it's broken at the moment00:23
knomewell that goes without saying00:23
pleia2it was yesterday anyway00:24
GridCubepleia2, exactly my point, i've been pointing people to lubuntu and even to tinycore if i think it deserves it00:25
knomeyes, it's not a competition really00:25
GridCubeI think we should make a point and say, well people, we need to move on.00:25
GridCubemoving on is not neglecting people with older hardware, there are many other distros pointed to them00:26
Unit193knome: Technically, I'm pretty sure mine could get ubiquity to work, but I wouldn't personally bother.00:26
knomein the theoretical case that we decided to keep alt...00:26
knome1) alt would break more often, or as much as now, but we would be fixing it ourself00:27
knome2) we would still need to continue testing alt; if we dropped, we could even add tests for mini and those would be easier to run anyway00:27
Unit193What are Kubuntu, Lubuntu, and whatever else?00:28
knomeno idea00:28
knomekubuntu probably drops it, if they haven't already00:28
knomelubuntu might stick to it00:28
knomeand i hope they will00:28
knome(and not just because that's one more reason to be able to drop alt from xubuntu900:28
knomestgraber raised some concerns over LTSP installability with no alt; does anybody think that's essential for xubuntu? :P00:32
knomehey sean00:32
knomebluesabre, ?  :)00:38
micahgalternate is currently broke due to the mismatching indicator gtk2 stack00:39
micahgmr_pouit said he'd upload the replacement stack at some point00:40
* micahg can't get to it this week00:40
knomeyes, i talked with him; he asked for help from the lubuntu team too00:40
bluesabreknome, what's up?00:45
knomebluesabre, as a very possible future xubuntu developer, what do you think of dropping/keeping alternate images? see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html00:47
bluesabreAren't one big benefit of the alternate images that you can install with significantly less ram?  Which kinda benefits xubuntu and lubuntu installation scenarios I would imagine00:48
knomeprobably, but would the system be usable with eg. 256 ram anyway?00:50
knomewell, anyway; there is always the minimal iso00:51
knomeinstall that + run "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"00:51
Unit193Though alternates permit you to have no internet connection.00:51
knomeexcept when downloading, but i can see your point00:52
knomehow common do you think that is?00:52
bluesabreI think if we had a page somewhere on the website that showed how to use the minimal iso, it wouldn't be too bad00:52
knomebluesabre, we can do that. it's really simple anyway00:52
bluesabreAnd not having the minimal isos would make less work and less testing, so theoretically a better product00:53
knomeyou mean alt00:53
knome? :)00:53
knomeyes, i agree with that00:54
GridCubeknome, but there is apt-offline00:55
Unit193Another reason to add it. :P00:56
knomethere's a mention of "aptoncd" on our docs, how useful is that?00:56
GridCubepeople who have to download the iso can download a minimal and the offline for xubuntu-desktop00:56
GridCubei know is a pita but...00:56
GridCubethere are better options for old hw than xubuntu00:56
knomenot that bad if we have a easy-to-follow tutorial though00:56
knomewell, not having an internet connection doesn't mean you have bad hardware00:56
knomeyou might be just really isolated00:57
knomecentral africa.00:57
GridCubesure, but if they get an iso they can get a smaller one and some offline apts00:57
knomeGridCube, though we can't suggest anything else than the whole xubuntu-desktop00:57
knomeGridCube, unless we create a xubuntu-minimal metapackage, which doesn't depend on the applications00:58
knomeeg. will leave abiword, gnumeric, ff, tb, gmb out00:58
GridCubeagain, I think that the point is if we want to *really* adress those people, who have old hardware or not00:59
GridCubeif they are isolated but they can use the desktop image they will01:00
knomeright, that's true01:00
knomeunless they have one of the newer machines that won't support desktop01:00
knomebut that should be "fixed" by testing ubiquity more01:00
GridCubesure, they can also have quantum microprocesors and whatnot, :P we cant make everyone happy, nor we should try to. We should try to make the most consistent product possible, knowing who we target and what we want to achieve01:02
GridCubei think that our Strategy Document was clear on that01:02
Unit193Bummer if we do drop it. Synaptic and alternate in the same release. :/01:03
knomeUnit193, apt-get... :)01:03
GridCubesynaptic is leaving?! jockey-gtk is leaving?! D:01:06
Unit193Ah, all three in one, thanks GridCube.01:06
GridCubeits not my fault :(01:07
GridCubei like those apps01:07
bluesabrequick, let's port them and rebase them on libmate!01:08
bluesabregnome2 forever01:08
knomeGridCube, synaptic is going simply because it isn't maintained actively01:08
Unit193knome: I understand, just still think it is the best UI, even though it might be better to get rid since it is GTK2 as well.01:09
knomeUnit193, well yeah, you are of course free to install it, as goes with other apps; i believe many want to use chrome, evolve/claws, other music players ...01:10
Unit193Yep, sure am.01:11
knomeagain, quantal is LTS+101:11
knometime to drop old stuff and get along01:11
micahgwe're stuck with GTK2 until xfce is fully ported01:14
knomeyeah, that's true01:14
knomebut that doesn't make synaptic maintained :]01:14
micahgmvo keeps updating it :)01:14
knomebut hasn't he promised not to for a few times? :D01:14
Sysihow much RAM is needed to really run ubiquity? in the early days of ubiquity I had to add swap to not have it dying because of too little memory, instalation was awfully slow but still worked06:43
SysiI know many people use alternate because they trust it more than ubiquity, so it would be kinda better to not have crippled alt available06:46
Sysiwhen ubiquity gets proper LVM support, doesn't that give RAID functionality? though as mentioned in that email it's quite easy to setup dmraid after installation06:51
pleia2it gives you the ability to pool disks like raid0, but it's not the same06:52
pleia2and it's much easier to set up raid in the installer06:55
Sysiso it is question of having some functionality (and memory usage)07:05
Sysiwith 256MB livecd doesn't seem to boot, with 512MB and 64MB graphics memory installs just fine (current daily, now loading language package)07:41
Sysiwell, it did boot but stuck after loading panels07:42
elfyhi mips1911 07:46
mips1911hi elfy07:46
knomehey elfy. you happen to know anything about docbook?07:46
elfyfraid not knome - or I'd have answered your mail :(07:47
knomeheh, np07:47
knomedo you know anything about the conventions of ubuntu docs then?07:47
knomefor example, what does it mean that ~xubuntu-docs is a subteam of ~ubuntu-docs - what does that give us07:47
elfyI think that is possibly just the way that LP sets things up 07:48
elfyforum membership team is a subteam of ubuntu members as another example07:48
knomeyeah, but i'm wondering if that gives us some permissions07:49
elfyI would think it would allow you to do what you need to do 07:49
knomei am sure there are some technical implications07:49
knomeyes, but what *is* that? :D07:49
knomeonly documentation contributors can push, i think07:50
elfyI'd suggest the place to hang about waiting for a real answer would be #ubuntu-doc 07:50
knomewell yeah, i've asked there and waited, and we've asked the ML07:50
knomeseriously, it seems that if you want to get something done relatively quickly, you need to know somebody from a team07:51
elfythey are ever so good at communication ... 07:51
knomeas anybody07:52
elfyI think if you can get hold of mdke you might get somewhere - sorry I can't be of more help07:53
smartboyhwknome: I want to ask: Do you opt for removing the alternate images?08:45
knomesmartboyhw, if you'd follow our mailing list, you would know it's discussed08:48
smartboyhwI know. I would opt for NOT having a alternate one, I will then do less testing:)08:50
knomenobody is expected to do desktop+alt even currently, it should be a community effort08:51
Sysiknome: did main-buntu already decide to drop it or is it still in discussion?08:53
smartboyhwSysi: Main Ubuntu decided to drop it at Beta 1.08:53
knomeSysi, it is not official yet i think, but i'm sure they will take that motion08:53
smartboyhwI actually got PM with balloons about that, and he sure said that no alternate08:54
Sysiminimal seems to work well for "advanced installation" even if it takes quite a while of downloading08:55
knomeSysi, the 27MB? ;)08:56
smartboyhwknome: I think he meant the need to download packages when installing08:57
Sysiknome: xubuntu-desktop mostly08:57
knomesmartboyhw, yes, i know. i was only kidding.08:57
smartboyhwknome: :)08:58
knomeSysi, i believe it doesn't take much more than downloading the ISO08:58
SysiI'd guess so08:59
mips1911I only use the alternate images, i never download the desktop ones. WOuld be sad if it's dropped.09:03
Sysimips1911: any reason for that?09:04
smartboyhwWell, I think that the alternate images install faster. I don't know why...09:04
knomemips1911, yeah, arguments09:04
knomesmartboyhw, probably because it doesn't need to run the graphical installer and thus more resources can be used to installing09:04
smartboyhwAh. Then I want the alternate images to stay now:)09:05
Sysiquantal daily installed very fast for me09:05
knomeof course there is less and less difference with faster hardware09:06
smartboyhwMaybe I'm a bit inaccurate, I do it on VMs, though the same software:)09:06
knomesmartboyhw, it sounds like you haven't thought the issue thorough. please do that before commenting.09:07
smartboyhwknome: Why?09:07
Sysibecause otherly your opinion doesn't really have much value09:08
smartboyhwBTW, I don't understand why there is not LTSP when there's no alternate image. Does LTSP mean a LTS point release?09:08
knomesmartboyhw, why would i think your opinion is worth listening if you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about?09:08
mips1911I prefer to do a custom cli install as the desktop image has to much stuff in it I don't need. Once I've done a cli install I copy all the packages from the cd/image over to my /var/cache/apt and continue installing what I need. Should I ever have an emergency where I quickly have to do a full install I can also use the alternate image (I install in in a VM anyway to compare my install vs the full xubuntu one as well).  I could use the minimal install 09:08
mips1911image but I have slow internet and it takes to long that way and should I ever need a full install in a emergency I'm screwed.09:08
knomesmartboyhw, feel free to google too: http://www.ltsp.org/09:09
mips1911I've also had issues in the past where the desktop images refuse to boot on my pc.09:09
Sysimips1911: you can have desktop image for emergencies09:09
smartboyhwAh OK.09:09
knomemips1911, well, that's one of the things we need to do. get more testing for the desktop images and fix ubiquity for more people09:10
mips1911Sysi, I'm also bandwidth limited so downloading another iso image is not cool for me.09:10
Sysiif mainline drops support for alternate, it will go sooner or later..09:11
knomeanother thing to consider is that since ubuntu drops alternate, maybe creating your own remastered disks will become easier09:11
SysiI wonder what's main-ubuntu's take on LTSP09:13
mips1911Do you guys know if/when we will ever see delta deb support in ubuntu. This will help a lot for those with slow connections & limited bandwidth. I know there are some technical issues wrt to this but I'm seriously considering switching to fedora on the next release because they do delta rpms. i don't really want to but I might have to.09:13
smartboyhwknome: Then why on 12.04.1 will people do less testing on the alternate images? I did it in the last moment. You said to get more testing for the desktop images, but I think both need more testing:)09:14
knomeSysi, that's one of the reasons why i don't think it's official until b109:14
mips1911I don't think the alternate images need more testing as they have never failed me where the desktop images have.09:14
knomesmartboyhw, i don't understand.09:15
Unit193I've had an alternate fail.09:15
smartboyhwUnit193: Uh oh.09:15
Sysiknome: though when building something like ltsp-server, using minimal and building from it shouldn't be a problem09:15
knomemips1911, to be honest, the alternates break wayyy more often than desktops while developing. it's quite often that you will have a build from one or more days ago09:16
smartboyhwAlso, a weird question: Other flavors of Ubuntu can build on 27th or 28th, but then why can't Xubuntu? It is stuck in 22nd. Ubuntu Studio is even worse, stuck in 21st:(09:16
knomeSysi, yeah, but what if you want to repeat that for, say, 50 pc's?09:16
mips1911knome, then I've been lucky09:16
knomesmartboyhw, that's because the alternate images have been failing to build.09:16
mips1911Sysi, does the server image not pull in stuff by default desktop users don't need?09:17
knomemips1911, you can select what you want in the server installation.09:17
mips1911still even if i used the server image I would not be able to do a quick xubuntu desktop install.09:17
knomemips1911, and if you want ltsp... it's probably not too much of a problem09:17
Sysimips1911: minimal sure doesn't09:17
mips1911Sysi, I don;t use minimal09:18
mips1911or I should rather say have not use minimal09:18
Sysiknome: why would you install 50 LTSP servers09:18
knomeSysi, if you need to? :]09:18
knomeSysi, ask stgraber... :P09:19
Sysiknome: I guess you could make local mirror and netinstall would be fast09:19
mips1911How hard would it be to implement a minimal installer for as part of the desktop installer image?09:19
Sysiknome: at my highschool we had fat-clients, they were installed and updated with netinstall and FAI, fully automatic install or something09:20
mips1911If you could do both from one cd that kill two birds with one stone but that still leaves out stuff like LVM09:20
knomemips1911, not pursueable by xubuntu team with these resources09:21
knomeSysi, looks like there are options for the LTSP, read the follow-up messages to steves09:21
knomeSysi, eg. click on "next message" at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html09:22
knomemore insight on other issues too09:22
Sysiknome: I think your last link wasn't "by thread", I'm reading that now09:25
knomeSysi, mm09:26
mr_pouitxubuntu-core = xfce4 I guess (there's already this minimal metapackage)09:28
ochosihey mr_pouit 09:28
knomemr_pouit, and default-settings?09:28
Unit193Default settings, shimmer-themes.09:29
knomedefault settings would imply shimmer-themes, yeah09:29
Sysidoes xfce4 depend on xorg? it doesn't include DM, how minimal are we talking about..09:30
knomeSysi, i'm 99.999999% certain it does. :)09:30
=== smartboyhw_ is now known as smartboyhw
Sysidoes dropping jockey finally make installing nvidia drivers with apt-get work?09:35
knomeSysi, jockey should now be integrated with software-properties-gtk. i don't know how, though09:36
Unit193Didn't work half as well for me.09:36
knomeoki, new wallpaper folks09:36
ochosii like that it's still called "simons-size" :}09:37
knomeand slideshow remake:09:37
knomeochosi, that could be it's name for the shimmer package :P09:37
Unit193Slideshow is nice, wallpaper is slightly bland, but people change that to whatever they want I'm sure.09:37
knomeit's very simple for a change, and no theme in it really09:38
Unit193Too late this cycle, but "community wallpapers" going for another round?09:38
knomewe simply have no space, so yeah09:38
knomelet's see what the situation is with R09:38
knomeor if we can get non-oversized for Q either :P09:38
Unit193Additional wallpapers/themes or other additions in the repo?09:39
knomeUnit193, mmh, well, when we are planning R, can you add that item to the roadmap proposals so we don't forget it?09:39
knomeUnit193, i don't have any reasons not to pursue that, but this cycle was too frantic for that09:40
knomei will need some new screenshots for the slideshow09:40
knomei'll ping you people when i know what09:40
mips1911It looks like in future I would have to download both the minimal & desktop images, do a minimal install and copy the packages from the desktop image over to my minimal image in order to do what I currently do with the alternate image. I'll just have to figure out how to extract the packages from the squashfs09:40
Unit1937zip liked those, iirc.  Also, apt-offline?09:42
mips1911knome, can aptoncd access live images to extract packages?09:42
knomemips1911, i have no idea about that, but i believe you can create a cd with packages with that.09:43
knomemips1911, what you are doing is simply trying to avoid to try and fix ubiquity09:44
Sysiwould it makse any sense to add minimal-installation option to ubiquity?09:44
mips1911knome, yes but it has to download them via the repos as far as i know. I'm trying to avoid that and I would no know all the packages I need.09:44
SysiI've used that feature of alt-cd couple times as well09:45
Unit193Think http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/ is broken.09:45
mips1911knome, i'm not a dev and don't have a clue so I would leave that up to you guys that know what you are doing09:46
knomeSysi, you should take that to ubuntu, again xubuntu doesn't have the manpower to maintain09:46
knomei don't think it's going to happen, but there might be a very slim chance of it happening09:47
knomebut why would they add it to desktop if it's failing on alt?09:47
mips1911Grr, skip my previous idea. I just realised the desktop image does not contain and .deb files10:00
Unit193http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/preview/xubuntu/slides/index.html Anyway to get that to pull from another bzr branch?10:02
knomei haven't pushed the new slideshow yet, though10:05
Unit193Yeah, was under the impression that page was pulling info directly, or something weird.10:06
knomei've no idea10:07
knomeprobably not10:07
knomeat least from my pc... >:)10:07
mr_pouitmicahg: (for the record, check #u-devel a few mins ago) it seems we'll have to port indicator-messages back to gtk2, since the old gtk2 version won't work anymore10:34
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
Sysiknome: about new wallpaper, what if circles of bottom right were a bit bigger and maybe higher?11:04
knomeSysi, possible11:04
Sysiit interferes with focusing to bottom panel a bit now11:06
knomeyeah, we'll need to fix that11:06
Sysiwell, it works with default panel layout or panel on top but I think having panel on bottom is quite popular too11:07
Sysi(and it just might look better, maybe give it a shot)11:08
=== red_ is now known as amerigena
amerigenaEmail said to join #xubuntu-devel and post if I wanted to contribute to the Docbook effort.11:22
elfyI'd get ready for knome to snatch your hand off then :)11:23
Unit193You know docbooks?11:24
amerigenaNo. But the email stipulated that experience wasn't strictly necessary.11:25
amerigenaIt's OK if you don't know anything11:26
amerigenaabout Docbook. Just come hang around and we'll see what we can do. 11:26
Unit193Sure, was just asking until knome shows up and says something.11:27
knomeamerigena, do you know docbook already?11:28
Unit193knome: Missed the period, and scrollback. ;)11:29
knomeamerigena, familiar with bzr?11:29
knomeokay, get a copy of our docs: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/xubuntu-docs11:30
knome'bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xubuntu-docs' that is11:31
knomei don't know docbook myself, so i don't know where to start11:31
knomei do know something though11:31
knomeyou will need docbook, docbook-utils and gnome-doc-utils to be able to build the documentation.11:33
knomeat least.11:33
knomewe don't plan to change the template much (only stylesheets) this release, so what we would need is somebody who is familiar enough with the docs to be able to, simply (or not), drop in new text11:34
knomei believe that is rather trivial, but i really don't have time myself to look at it, at least not now11:34
knomethe doc string freeze is on Sep 20, so things need do happen before that11:35
knomeif you hang around this channel, you will get guidance and pointers on what we need11:35
amerigenaI got a copy of the documentation, and will look at it this afternoon.11:35
knomeand finally, don't feel obliged to do more than you can. if you feel you've had, or start having enough, just tell us11:35
knomewe will try to help as much as we can11:36
knomebut we simply lack hands to do everything :)11:36
amerigenaUnderstood. Looking forward to (hopefully) being one of those helping hands.11:40
knomesomebody has Q installed?11:41
Unit193Kind of.11:42
knomewhat does that mean?11:42
knomesmartboyhw, i don't need the information you don't11:42
=== tech_ is now known as amerigena
micahgmr_pouit: ted told me that they weren't going to break it :(12:54
ochosiyeah, sucks pretty bad imo12:55
ochosiespecially when there's so little time to think about good alternatives12:55
mr_pouittbh I think they'll drop gtk2 support of libindicat* in R12:57
mr_pouitand xfce will still be gtk212:57
micahgmr_pouit: has there been any progress in porting the panel to gtk3 upstream?12:58
GridCubethere seems to be a huge bunch of problems comming on :/13:10
GridCubewith mainbuntu choosing to move on to gtk3 and all that13:11
GridCubeI think that the decision to drop alternate should be made soon, it will save lots of time on people who actually know how to do stuff13:12
knomeGridCube, we will make it before beta1, aka thursday13:12
GridCubeI'll send a mail to the respect now13:13
Sysido 4.10 action buttons need xscreensaver for user-switching? (is dropping xscreensaver discussion done?)13:19
knomeSysi, we won't drop it now13:19
elfyanyone know if I should expect to see nvidia drivers in the additional drivers software-centre tab? 16:40
holsteinelfy: usually a seperate popup16:41
bluesabreelfy, I didn't see them in there in 12.1016:41
elfyholstein: not in 12.10 holstein 16:41
bluesabreI don't think they build right now16:41
holsteinif you search nvidia, you'll see it, but that doesnt mean you need it.. i usually refer to the wiki16:41
elfybluesabre: aah ok - they went walkabout a while ago :)16:41
elfyholstein: I know I can find it - was thinking about others expecting to find it in add drivers - cos they will :)16:42
bluesabreknome: Do we still support/recommend exaile?  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Music19:15
knomebluesabre, no. gmb is the one for that19:19
bluesabreI thought so19:20
bluesabreCleanup time :D19:20
bluesabreI just thought it was odd that we still mention it in our offline doc19:20
knomeyeah, it's not updated yet19:20
knome(the section)19:21
bluesabreI'll work on it for a bit19:21
knomethanks, every bit counts19:22
micahgmr_pouit: I'm going to temporarily drop xfce4-indicator and the gtk2 indicator stuff from the seeds until we get this sorted unless you have a better idea (might not happen until tomorrow)20:00
knomehey micahg 20:08
micahghi knome20:09
knomeUIF prepping is looking surprisingly good20:09
knomeSysi, ?20:15
knomehmm, there some weird movement of mouse in quantal virtualbxo install20:34
=== red__ is now known as amerigena
pleia2hey amerigena 22:48
pleia2we do still need folks pitching in on rewrites on the wiki :)22:48
amerigenaOK. So how do I do it? Bzr was over my head.22:49
pleia2the instructions here are a good start: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008343.html22:49
pleia2for now we're just editing pages on http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12/1022:50
pleia2https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008392.html explains exactly where we are, and what strikethrough, bold and such mean22:50
* pleia2 heads off to an appointment22:57
mr_pouitmicahg: yes, please, it won't be ready at least until UIF anyway :/23:14

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