[05:27] <jrgns> morning all
[05:43] <magespawn> good morning jrgns
[05:43] <magespawn> morning y'all lurkers
[05:43] <jrgns> you good?
[05:44] <magespawn> yes and you?
[05:44] <magespawn> i had coffee this morning
[05:44] <magespawn> so am very good
[05:45] <magespawn> Maaz: coffee for everyone
[05:45] <Maaz> magespawn: What?
[05:45] <magespawn> Maaz: coffee for all
[05:45] <Maaz> Come on ya buncha geeks. Rock up with your mugs with the correct amount of sugar added already
[06:04] <Kilos> hi magespawn and others
[06:04] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[06:11] <Kilos> hi psydroid 
[06:11] <magespawn> brb
[06:12] <psydroid> hi Kilos and magespawn
[06:21] <zeref_campus> :YaaawwwN:
[06:21] <zeref_campus> morning
[06:21] <Kilos> hi zeref 
[06:21] <zeref_campus> hi Kilos 
[06:26] <jrgns> magespawn: good, thnx
[06:34] <Kilos> hi jrgns 
[06:37] <superfly> morning sleepy heads!
[06:42] <magespawn> i am sorry, i have been at work for an hour already, sleepy heads, hah!
[06:42] <Kilos> hi superfly lol
[06:42] <Kilos> what time were you here
[06:45] <superfly> well, I just got to work, but that means I've been up for at least 2 hours
[06:49] <magespawn> how long is the travel?
[06:56] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday 
[06:56] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[06:56] <superfly> magespawn: 45 minutes
[06:56] <superfly> hi maiatoday 
[06:56] <maiatoday> hi superfly
[06:58] <magespawn> mine is about 10 minutes, and that includes dropping the kids at school, the wonders of small town life
[06:59] <magespawn> still have to get up at 05:30 though
[07:02] <magespawn> if i was in a city i would probable be up at 04:30, family life
[07:05] <magespawn> superfly you still taking the train?
[07:13] <jrgns> hey Kilos
[07:15] <superfly> magespawn: yup
[08:10] <Kilos> yo Banlam bakuman 
[08:12] <charlvn> good morning
[08:12] <Kilos> hi charlvn 
[08:12] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on !
[08:12]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[08:12] <charlvn> hi Kilos 
[08:12] <charlvn> how's it going this morning
[08:12] <bakuman> lies!
[08:12] <bakuman> Maaz coffee please
[08:12] <Maaz> bakuman: Righto
[08:12] <Kilos> better than yesterday ty and you?
[08:12] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[08:12] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[08:13] <Kilos> bakuman, you feeling guilty about something
[08:13] <Kilos> ?
[08:13] <bakuman> nope :D
[08:13] <Kilos> loli was waiting for the it wasnt me addon to lies
[08:16] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn, bakuman and Kilos!
[08:16] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[08:16] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[08:29] <Kilos> Trixar_za, do you ever have spare time to play around
[08:30] <Kilos> i need someone to take 12.04's network-manager and unhide the "enable broadband" button and make it permanently enabled
[08:31] <Kilos> same as the "enable networking" one
[08:32] <Kilos> so the disable function will be by choice
[08:33] <Kilos> personal choice that is
[08:51] <zeref_campus> Kilos: you could code\
[08:51] <Kilos> zeref, i have no idea how
[08:52] <Kilos> thats why i asked
[08:52] <Kilos> im a mechanic and farmer 
[08:52] <zeref_campus> there is network manager called Wicd
[08:55] <Kilos> i see it in synaptic ty , will try it
[08:56] <Kilos> but the ubuntu one still needs fixing. always worked before
[09:05] <Kilos> hi DigiGram 
[09:05] <DigiGram> hi Kilos
[09:10] <DigiGram> one thing about Free software I do not understand...
[09:11] <DigiGram> there is an distinction between free as in free beer and free as in free speach... now that I do understand
[09:11] <DigiGram> but where on earth do you get free beer
[09:11] <bakuman> *speech
[09:11] <DigiGram> ????
[09:11] <bakuman> :D
[09:11] <DigiGram> *speach in my bubble ;)
[09:11] <DigiGram> mmm, wonder why my spell checker is on holiday?
[09:11]  * DigiGram going to look for his spell chacker quickly
[09:12]  * bakuman was making the point that it is free but not uncencored and uncorr3ected :D
[09:12] <DigiGram> lol
[09:13] <charlvn> DigiGram: very good question... i have always wondered that myself too
[09:15]  * DigiGram will write code for beer....
[09:17] <charlvn> DigiGram: for provisioning of beer: http://beeroverip.org/
[09:19] <DigiGram> lol thanx charlvn 
[09:32] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee time
[09:32] <Maaz> It is always coffee time!
[09:32] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[09:32]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[09:32] <Kilos> just had someone from belgium hack into my gmail account
[09:33] <Kilos> grrr
[09:33] <DigiGram> Maaz, coffee please
[09:33] <Maaz> DigiGram: Okay
[09:33] <DigiGram> time to enable two-stef verification then?
[09:33] <Kilos> oh my
[09:34] <DigiGram> *step
[09:34] <Kilos> big enough job to change passwords
[09:36] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and DigiGram!
[09:36] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[09:36] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[09:39] <Kilos> zeref_campus, that wicd isnt for mobile broadband as well. wired and wireless info only i see
[09:41] <DigiGram> Maaz, ty
[09:41] <Maaz> You are welcome DigiGram
[09:54] <DigiGram> why oh why don't I like DLink wifi cards...???
[09:59] <Kilos> hi tonberryE352 
[10:47] <maiatoday> who does the twitter stream for ubuntu-za again, Kilos? charlvn?
[10:47] <maiatoday> I am trying to set up the hash tag on loco.ubuntu.com for us
[10:47] <Kilos> me maiatoday 
[10:47] <maiatoday> I know we use #ubuntu-za but I think that isn't a valid hash tag because it truncates after the -
[10:48] <maiatoday> so we should probably use something like #ubuntuza 
[10:48] <Kilos> on twitter we are ubuntuza
[10:48] <charlvn> Kilos: how the heck did that happen?
[10:48] <Kilos> what charlvn ?
[10:48] <charlvn> Kilos: the hacking?
[10:49] <Kilos> i dunno, just got a message that someone from belgium had signed in to my account
[10:49] <Kilos> and i have a mean password
[10:49] <charlvn> Kilos: very weird, do you reuse the same password for other things?
[10:49] <Kilos> ya facebook 
[10:50] <Kilos> but i never go there
[10:50] <charlvn> ah, but facebook should be pretty secure as well
[10:50] <charlvn> very suspicious
[10:51] <charlvn> maiatoday: good idea (re hashtag)
[10:51] <charlvn> bbl
[10:54] <maiatoday> also we can add picasa or flickr group album to the loco page maybe we can set one up to keep all the pics. It will feed to loco.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-za automatically
[11:01] <magespawn> that is a good idea maiatoday 
[11:09] <magespawn> i am off for awhile bbl
[12:01] <DigiGram> oh it hurts so bad... just went to a computer store to pick up some ram and harddrives... so bad sitting with a 2TB hdd in hand, knowing it will never be filled more than 1%.... ai tog
[12:01] <DigiGram> wish it was mine rather
[12:02] <Kilos> lol
[12:03] <DigiGram> the server will do incremental backups of a system that generates about 100MB per month...
[12:03] <Kilos> hi Carma 
[12:03] <Kilos> DigiGram, what do they cost?
[12:03] <Carma> hi all
[12:03] <DigiGram> the 2TB?
[12:03] <Kilos> yeah
[12:04] <DigiGram> R1095 incl.
[12:04] <DigiGram> Western Digital 64MB cache
[12:04] <DigiGram> oh, I see it is part of the Caviar Green range
[12:05] <DigiGram> you can get for cheaper I'm sure, but the university is very peculiar on where they will buy
[12:05] <Kilos> Carma, youre new here methinks
[12:06] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[12:06] <Kilos> ok bye
[12:06] <DigiGram> lol
[12:07] <DigiGram> okay, paying R1095 for this drive: http://www.takealot.com/electronics/pc-components-1111/western-digital-caviar-green-2tb-sata-6gb-s-64-mb-cache,9765877 maybe isn't as bad
[12:08] <Kilos> not if you think, about 4 or 5 years ago when i was even more doff i spent R250 on a 4g drive and was so happy with this big drive
[12:08] <Kilos> only had 500m drives before
[12:09] <DigiGram> hehe
[12:09] <Kilos> and it was second hand
[12:10] <Kilos> they saw me coming
[12:10] <Kilos> must be the way i comb my hair
[12:10] <DigiGram> for me it was 8 years ago that I bought a 13GB from my friend, not knowing what I'll do with all of that space
[12:11] <Kilos> lol
[12:17] <jrgns> yeah, i payed R350 for a 512MB usb drive
[12:17] <jrgns> that was about 10 years ago?
[12:18] <DigiGram> 2005, R400 for a 1GB usb, bought a couple to resell as this was a BARGAIN hehe
[12:20] <Kilos> hehe
[12:21] <Kilos> pc things seem to be the only thing that actually gets cheaper
[12:21] <Kilos> cheeper
[12:21] <Kilos> whew
[12:21] <Kilos> that thing
[12:23] <DigiGram> like ram...paid R255 for 4GB DDR-1333 now, paid R400 for 512MB DDR400's years ago
[12:33] <DigiGram> lol for those following the Apple/Samsung; Apple/Google; Apple/World patent suits, enjoy this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120829.gif
[13:24] <jrgns> DigiGram: nice
[14:01] <Kilos> yo nlsthzn wb
[14:01] <Kilos> hi drussell 
[14:02] <nlsthzn> uncle Kilos ... alo :)
[14:22] <magespawn> hey kilos
[14:27] <Kilos> yo magespawn 
[14:27] <Kilos> wb
[14:30] <magespawn> lok like a quite day
[14:31] <magespawn> looks 
[14:31] <Kilos> yeah
[14:31] <Kilos> didd you go to ubuntu-classroom last night
[14:32] <Kilos> i couldnt keep up when 7 lines at a time flash by
[14:32] <magespawn> no if i am going to attend a class i will do it in the shop
[14:32] <Kilos> dunno if them guys type so fast or prepair and copy paste
[14:37] <Kerbero> prepare
[14:37] <Kerbero> stefano told us once
[14:37] <Kilos> that too
[14:37] <Symmetria> *HRM*
[14:38] <Kilos> ty Kerbero 
[14:38]  * Symmetria ponders the advantage/disadvantage of running dynamic routing down to servers
[14:38] <Kilos> wassup Symmetria 
[14:38] <Symmetria> heh trying to decide if I should add more specific v6 static routes to a server
[14:38] <Symmetria> or just go screw it and install ospf3
[14:38] <Symmetria> :p
[14:38] <Kerbero> ospf3
[14:38] <Kilos> Kerbero, kinda difficult preparing for random questions like that hey?
[14:45] <magespawn> outa here again layer all
[14:47] <Kilos> toods magespawn 
[15:08] <tumbleweed> ubuntu developer week juts started, again
[15:10] <Kilos> drussell,  you there #ubuntu-classroom
[15:10] <drussell> Kilos: hiya, no, not currently... /me is on a conference call
[15:11] <Kilos> ah
[15:15] <Symmetria> how interesting
[15:15] <Symmetria> ipv6 akamai content
[15:15] <Symmetria> is now coming from mweb
[15:15] <Symmetria>  9  vic-p-1.mweb.co.za (::ffff:197.80.0.1)  14.513 ms  12.036 ms  12.009 ms
[15:15] <Symmetria> 10  tengig0-1-0-0.vic-up-1.mweb.co.za (::ffff:197.80.4.125)  13.988 ms  11.312 ms  13.188 ms
[15:15] <Symmetria> 11  2c0f:ff40:30:130::1 (2c0f:ff40:30:130::1)  15.404 ms  15.391 ms  15.385 ms
[15:15] <Symmetria> 12  2c0f:ff40:30:130::c550:8208 (2c0f:ff40:30:130::c550:8208)  10.789 ms  10.777 ms  10.974 ms
[15:15] <Symmetria> ^^^ traceroute to www.akamai.com from ufs
[16:18] <Symmetria> heh
[16:18] <Symmetria> did anyone see that bizarro article 
[16:18] <Symmetria> by that guy who said he was resigning his citizenship
[16:18] <Symmetria> :P I'll be curious to see if they publish my open response to that
[16:49] <zeref> ummm, the default time and date program in the top panel, whats the name of it?
[17:17] <superfly> zeref: what top panel? I only have my plasma bar at the bottom.
[17:18] <zeref> hmmm, ok, the program which shows the time at the bottom, what is it called?
[17:19] <superfly> it's just a plasmoid
[17:20] <Kilos> hi simeon 
[17:23] <superfly> zeref: how about telling us which desktop shell or environment you are using, instead of presuming we all use what you're using
[17:23] <Kilos> Trixar_za, have you been to #ubuntu-classroom
[17:23] <Kilos> the weed talking now
[17:25] <Symmetria> there are worse things that weed that could be talking :P
[17:25] <Trixar_za> No and what is he talking about?
[17:25] <Trixar_za> Ah, so he's talking about weed in general
[17:25] <Trixar_za> :P
[17:25] <Kilos> packaging and patches etc
[17:26] <Trixar_za> Not exactly useful to me
[17:26] <Trixar_za> ;P
[17:27] <Symmetria> hrm
[17:27] <Symmetria> I wonder exactly what the motivation for setting default rp_filter is 
[17:27] <Symmetria> in the linux kernel
[17:27] <Trixar_za> I have build receipt and commit access to SliTaz's packages build server and buildbot
[17:27] <Symmetria> I mean, I can kinda see the point, at the same time, the amount of crap I have seen that break is whack
[17:27] <Trixar_za> So I already know how to do it with regards to SliTaz
[17:27] <Trixar_za> ... I just rarely do so
[17:29] <Trixar_za> :|
[17:30] <Trixar_za> I can't speak in classroom :'(
[17:30] <Kilos> no you gotta ask at #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:30] <Trixar_za> Ah
[17:30] <Kilos> then the bot asks for you
[17:31] <Trixar_za> I was going to point out the exceptions (like non-free binary packages)
[17:31] <Kilos> state it in chat and see what happens
[17:40] <Trixar_za> I left now
[17:40] <Kilos> i saw
[17:40] <Trixar_za> He was stating the stuff I kind of learned the hardway
[17:41] <Trixar_za> hard way*
[17:41] <Kilos> thats why i asked you this morning to fix nm for me
[17:41] <Kilos> experience helps
[17:44] <magespawn> evening all
[17:44] <Trixar_za> Oh right. I don't think they would have allowed me to make that change officially
[17:44] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[17:45] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[17:45] <Kilos> if you can fix it for me i will give it to the weed to add in their discussions
[17:46] <Kilos> Trixar_za,  im sure if one can permanently enable mobile broadband the thing will work
[17:47] <Kilos> because if i tick enable broadband it dials automatically
[17:47] <Trixar_za> Would be a multi-level approval layer though. It would first have to go to GNOME people since it's their code base, they'll have to check if it's useful or good code. Then it's the matter of waiting for the fix to be applied downstream within individual distros
[17:48] <Kilos> as long as mine gets fixed it can take long to get through the correct routes
[17:48] <Trixar_za> That's pretty much one of the perks of being a dev on a distro. Fixed I apply WILL get added without review.
[17:49] <Trixar_za> Fixes*
[17:49] <Kilos> ah
[17:49] <Trixar_za> Probably not a good thing, but it gets more things done
[17:49] <Trixar_za> And if you break stuff, you get massive slack for it >.>
[17:49] <Trixar_za> Speaking of which
[17:50]  * Trixar_za tries to fix the damn Buddypress site
[17:50] <Kilos> there are hundreds if not thousands of peeps with nm probs on 12.04 but none of them fixes work for me
[17:51] <Trixar_za> That's kind of the problem for me. I've gotten used to just compiling from source to fix issues I have with packages.
[17:52] <Trixar_za> Some problems can actually be solved by just enabling or disabling the right options at the ./configure stage
[17:52] <Kilos> thats what i need to find out how to do
[17:53] <Kilos> like would i gedit this
[17:53] <Kilos> (VPN settings are in ~/.gconf/system/networking/connections/*/vpn/%gconf.xml)
[17:55] <magespawn> pretty cooll the way they have the bot asking the questions
[17:55] <magespawn> cool even
[17:55] <Kilos> yeah
[17:56] <Kilos> clever and censored beforehand
[17:56] <magespawn> also stops the channel from getting flooded with questions
[17:57] <Kilos> yeah
[18:00] <magespawn> i think i need to learn a lot more before i can participate in those discussions
[18:01] <Kilos> whew
[18:01] <Trixar_za> Personally I wish I would stop finding the hard way of learning things. But then I doubt I'll learn anything. Teach a man to fish right?
[18:01]  * smile hugs Kilos
[18:01] <smile> :)
[18:01] <Kilos> lol
[18:01] <smile> ^^
[18:01] <Kilos> ty smile 
[18:01] <smile> yw :)
[18:02] <magespawn> Trixar_za: learning the hard way you remember it the best
[18:02] <Kilos> smile, did you go to the classroom
[18:02] <Symmetria> hrm
[18:02] <Symmetria> there is no mrouted package in ubuntu :(
[18:02]  * Symmetria cries
[18:03] <smile> Kilos: het is nog vakantie :p
[18:03] <Kilos> ek is nog op vakansie
[18:03] <Kilos> the ubuntu-classroom man
[18:04] <Kilos> #ubuntu-classroom
[18:05] <Trixar_za> magespawn: True. I seem to have a trouble learning it any other way. I do have a trouble reading technical books - more they bore me to death.
[18:06] <Trixar_za> -a *
[18:06] <Trixar_za> I guess I'm just a practical learner. I learn by doing.
[18:06] <magespawn> thats the best way
[18:07] <magespawn> tech books are always so thick
[18:07] <magespawn> they seem to belabour the point they are trying to make
[18:08] <smile> Kilos: why? :D
[18:08] <smile> ^^
[18:09] <Kilos> they are teaching peeps to become devs
[18:11] <smile> okay :)
[18:11] <smile> I will get there one day :) without teaching
[18:11] <smile> I learned almost everything about pc's without teaching
[18:12] <Trixar_za> Necessity if the mother of invention (and learning) :P
[18:12] <Trixar_za> is*
[18:12] <Kilos> then fix 12.04 network manager so mobile broadband is permanently enabled
[18:13] <zeref> whoah ubuntu-classroom is awesome :D
[18:14] <Trixar_za> Pimp my Bookcart. The stuff people invent.
[18:18] <Kilos> Trixar_za, theres nothing in here
[18:18] <Kilos> ~/.gconf/system/networking/connections/*/vpn/%gconf.xml
[18:19] <Trixar_za> The file really is named %gconf.xml?
[18:20] <Kilos> thats what i found when googling how to edit the nm .conf file
[18:22] <smile> Kilos: sorry ;)
[18:22] <smile> Mobile broadband <- whoa, out of here! :D
[18:22] <Kilos> for what smile ?
[18:22] <Kilos> lol
[18:22] <smile> for the thing under it ;)
[18:23] <Kilos> ?
[18:24] <Kilos> mobile broadband isnt the prob. network-manager is
[18:28] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight
[18:31] <smile> bye :)
[18:31]  * smile is leaving
[18:35] <magespawn> anybody know some good open source hotspot software?
[18:39] <Trixar_za> In what way? Controlling or finding them?
[18:43] <magespawn> controlling them
[18:43] <magespawn> i am looking at this at the moment http://www.coova.org/CoovaAP
[18:44] <magespawn> based on openwrt
[18:46] <inetpro> hmm....
[18:52] <Squirm> finally
[18:52] <Squirm> electricity in our office has been down since 3pm yesterday
[18:52] <Squirm> that means no internets :P
[18:55] <magespawn> going cold turkey there?
[19:02]  * Symmetria gets himself into trouble on news24
[19:04] <Symmetria> lol
[19:04] <Symmetria> http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Notice-of-Resignation-from-RSA-20120828 <[19:05] <Symmetria>  http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Resignation-from-RSA-A-response-20120829 <[19:05] <zeref> news24 s the ultimate troll site :D
[19:05] <Symmetria> zeref lol, did you read the original or my response? I actually believe what I wrote in the response
[19:06] <zeref> epspecially the user opion section
[19:06] <zeref> gona read it now
[19:06] <Symmetria> but lol, the response... is a little contraversial
[19:07] <Symmetria> lol, I had one 2 americans ask me wtf I meant by that george bush comment
[19:07] <zeref> LOL
[19:12] <Symmetria> lol
[19:12] <Symmetria> what did you make of my response
[19:14] <zeref> legit
[19:14] <zeref> running away from a 'problem' does not solve the 'problem'
[19:15] <Symmetria> I call running away cowardice 
[19:15] <Symmetria> and I stand by that
[19:15] <Symmetria> :P and I had the same thing to say to my own brother when he left
[19:15] <Symmetria> (he didnt talk to me for a week)
[19:15] <Symmetria> lol
[19:16] <zeref> lol
[19:16] <zeref> every country has problems, the thing is you only ses those problems when you get there
[19:17] <zeref> *see
[19:17] <Symmetria> heh Ive been all over the world as I said
[19:17] <Symmetria> and I can tell you, there are places in this world far worse than anything Ive found here
[19:17] <zeref> news channels paint a very diiferent picture of what is really happeneing
[19:17] <zeref> hence, i dont watch news
[19:17] <Symmetria> lol, walk down the road in rio and see what happens 
[19:17] <Symmetria> particularly on coca cubana
[19:18] <Symmetria> which is meant to be tourist heaven
[19:18] <zeref> lol
[19:18] <Symmetria> wander into east LA, just watch the bullets from the crypts and the bloods fighting it out
[19:18] <zeref> true
[19:18] <Symmetria> oh, and not to mention just how damn dangerous washington DC is
[19:18] <Symmetria> or the bronx, or conney island 
[19:19] <zeref> went to england and was like, whoah!!
[19:19] <Symmetria> and while you're at it, wander through downtown frankfurt, just be careful of the millions of dirty heroin needles lying all over the ground 
[19:19] <Symmetria> and then of course, there is milan, you're ok in milan so long as you dont mention football for the wrong team, you'll probably end up dead if you do that
[19:19] <zeref> lol
[19:20] <zeref> so where is markis going to?
[19:20] <Symmetria> but hell, if you want saftey, you can go to singapore, where they CANE YOU if they catch you chewing gum!!!!
[19:20] <Symmetria> he didnt say :P 
[19:20] <Symmetria> lol, he's in for a very big suprise though
[19:20] <zeref> "So until the day that true democracy exists in every province, city and home in South Africa; until every man, woman and child, of every race, religion and sex is truly free; when discrimination, government hopelessness and state stupidity are vanquished, I will seek a new beginning in another land. "
[19:20] <zeref> yeah right
[19:21] <zeref> practically, that will never happen
[19:21] <charlvn> well comparing to some of the worst brothels in the world isn't exactly any way to say there are no problems in south africa
[19:21] <charlvn> you can always go worse if you want to make yourself feel better :)
[19:22] <charlvn> it's kind-of like saying "i might be a rapist but at least i'm not a child molester"
[19:22] <Symmetria> charlvn heh, Ive been to 85 countries in the last 6 years or so
[19:22] <Symmetria> and spent significant amount of time in those countries
[19:23] <Symmetria> every single one of them had problems, some of those problems were just very different to what we face
[19:23] <charlvn> that's obviously true, but that still doesn't say anything
[19:23] <charlvn> i have also done a significant amount of traveling and every country has its own problems
[19:23] <charlvn> but in every country you also have better and worse places
[19:24] <charlvn> at the end of the day, it's much more about where you live in the country than which country you live in
[19:24] <charlvn> for example, after you've visited bangladesh, you could say south africa is a very wealthy country
[19:24] <zeref> RSA has potential, just needs the right people in power
[19:24] <charlvn> but then, after you've visited japan, south africa looks like a cr*phole
[19:24] <charlvn> it's all relative
[19:25] <charlvn> zeref: it's not about the people who are in power, it's about the culture of the people who put those few in power
[19:25] <charlvn> zeref: if you have educated, informed voters, they are capable of making better decisions
[19:25] <zeref> was just bout to clear that statement
[19:25] <Symmetria> I argue that the only way to fix this country is about education
[19:26] <Symmetria> and you cannot educate, or build, if you have run away
[19:26] <zeref> true
[19:26] <charlvn> zeref: but if they keep voting for the same party out of a misplaced sense of loyalty, nothing will improve
[19:26] <charlvn> Symmetria: i agree with you completely
[19:26] <charlvn> that is the start of the solution
[19:26] <Symmetria> charlvn they vote for the same party because of lack of education, and the fact is, the middle class blacks are turning against the ANC
[19:26] <charlvn> that's very true
[19:26] <zeref> yah
[19:26] <charlvn> the problem is though, it's an evil circle
[19:26] <Symmetria> why do you think they almost lost nelson mandela metro in the last election and lost ground in johannesburg and got their asses kicked in the western cape again
[19:27] <Symmetria> their support *IS* eroding
[19:27] <charlvn> to get educated, you need to have the government to invest in education
[19:27] <Symmetria> and the more the education spreads, the more it will erode
[19:27] <charlvn> to get the government to invest in education, you need a good government
[19:27] <charlvn> to get a good government, you need educated people
[19:27] <charlvn> it's not in the current government's best interest to have an educated population
[19:27] <charlvn> quite to the contrary because then the masses don't fall for the government's FUD
[19:27] <Symmetria> charlvn heh, the universities in this country are actually growing student wise, and that student population will end up being the death of the anc 
[19:28] <charlvn> well perhaps
[19:28] <charlvn> but the number of people who get to university is still very small
[19:28] <charlvn> but maybe it will change
[19:28] <Symmetria> I dont think people realize just how many university students we have enrolled in this country
[19:28] <charlvn> yeah but how many of them complete their course
[19:28] <charlvn> my mom used to work at a university for 10 years
[19:28] <charlvn> only about 10% of the first year students make it to the final year of their bachelors
[19:28] <zeref> there are still student who think ANC is the key
[19:28] <Symmetria> north west university, student reg. count: 68 thousand, uct: 24 thousand, ufs: 38 thousand,  UP: 70 odd thousand, etc etc
[19:29] <charlvn> yeah there definitely are
[19:29] <Symmetria> zeref yes, but the numbers show, that that number is declining
[19:29] <Symmetria> *shrug8 I am not saying we can fix this overnight
[19:29] <Symmetria> nor am I saying we dont have problems
[19:29] <Symmetria> Im saying we *CANT* fix it if we run away
[19:29] <charlvn> that's nice but take that and compare it to the number of kids that don't make it to university
[19:29] <charlvn> but it's true, it doesn't fix itself overnight
[19:29] <zeref> yep
[19:29] <Symmetria> and anyone who knows me knows I've had the chance to leave if I wanted to
[19:29] <Symmetria> I have the means, and the resources to get up and go tomorrow, I just dont se any reason to do so
[19:30] <Symmetria> there is sooooo much opportunity in this country, for blacks and whites alike
[19:31] <Symmetria> but *shrug* people want it handed to them, rather than to make those opportunities reality
[19:31] <magespawn> see you all later
[19:31] <charlvn> well your skin colour is irrelevant (or should be in any case)
[19:31] <charlvn> but it seems like certain population groups feel certain other population groups "owe" them
[19:31] <charlvn> and that culture won't help at all
[19:32] <zeref> culture is the biggest problem.
[19:32] <charlvn> if people stop worrying about skin colour and start working hard things will get a big boost
[19:32] <zeref> i've seem that 1st hand
[19:32] <Symmetria> charlvn yes, that is true, the reverse is true as well, and heh, it kinda saddens me what I saw working at UCT years ago
[19:32] <Symmetria> the people at UCT who grew up and remeber the late 80s/early 90s, have no wish to return to that 
[19:32] <charlvn> it's a really bad culture that is able to persist and it's just another negative cycle that needs to get broken
[19:33] <Symmetria> move forward a few years, and then people who have no memories of that, the whites, cry for the return of apartheid
[19:33] <Symmetria> in the same way, the older generation of blacks, many of them, will say that the youth league is on crack
[19:33] <Symmetria> because they dont want to go back to the violence that happened in those years
[19:33] <charlvn> yeah true
[19:34] <Symmetria> *shrug* I saw up close and personal the results of apartheid when i was a kid, and lose a coupla friends in the papagalo and a coupla friends in st james 
[19:34] <Symmetria> and that, that was teh result of apartheid 
[19:34] <charlvn> the problem is, people want to go forwards by going back, it's like "the previous evil was less than the current evil"
[19:34] <charlvn> what about just doing it right this time around
[19:35] <Symmetria> heh charl, the people who wanna go back though
[19:35] <Symmetria> werent there during that time
[19:35] <zeref> wat i've seem is at the "clever' black guys dont what anything to do with politics, and they are the one s who can make a diff
[19:35] <charlvn> yeah that's true
[19:35] <charlvn> they just don't realise
[19:35] <Symmetria> because only a fool would want to go back to that 
[19:35] <charlvn> it's like history repeating itself all over
[19:35] <charlvn> just because people don't learn from past mistakes
[19:35] <charlvn> i mean look at when the NP took over from the british colonialists
[19:35] <charlvn> it was supposed to be the "freedom" of south africa until they started with their own oppression
[19:36] <charlvn> then the anc took over, same story all over again
[19:36] <charlvn> if people just start learning from the past then they can build on that and move forward
[19:36] <Symmetria> heh charl this world has a habit of repeating itself in stupidity
[19:36] <Symmetria> the americans elected george bush TWICE 
[19:36] <charlvn> yeah that is extremely sad
[19:36] <charlvn> but true
[19:36] <Symmetria> the south african IT industry is 12 years behind, but heading straight for the same IT bubble which almost killed the industry in 2000
[19:37] <Symmetria> (particularly in the internet sector)
[19:37] <Symmetria> people cry about the islamic extremist violence, in reality, its nothing more than a repeat of the christian crusades all over against 
[19:37] <Symmetria> again
[19:37] <Symmetria> the examples are endless
[19:38] <charlvn> yeah that's a good one
[19:38] <Symmetria> heh the comments on that article of mine are interesting, it seems to be... quite split :)
[19:38] <Symmetria> between those who agree and those who are extremely anti what I said hehe
[19:38]  * Symmetria laughs
[19:40] <charlvn> ok lemme get going, need to do some other stuff
[19:40] <charlvn> evening all!
[19:41] <zeref> Symmetria: go into politics anf fix the internet sector
[19:41]  * zeref :whistles:
[19:42] <Symmetria> heh, zeref been trying the latter for years
[19:42] <Symmetria> :P
[19:42] <Symmetria> and still trying
[19:43] <Symmetria> managed to get a fair way though
[19:43] <zeref> the thing is if you seem more intelligent that the person runing things, they tell you, FUUUUUUUU
[19:44] <Symmetria> lol zeref *shrug* I like to believe that I was at least a tiny bit responsible for some of the changes to the industry :) but obviously, not done on my own, I had amazing people to work with when we did what we did
[19:45] <zeref> yeah, there are those awesome people behind the scence
[20:51] <Squirm> hmmm, I'm looking for libgcrypt11 >=1.5 in debian Squeeze. Squeeze conveniently has 1.4 but Sid on the otherhand has 1.5.1
[20:51] <Squirm> I'm stuck now :/
[21:49] <Symmetria> anyone awake?
[21:49] <Symmetria> I have something really cool to show you guys
[21:49] <Symmetria> :p
[22:13] <Kerbero> o
[22:13] <Kerbero> i'm still sort of awake Symmetria 
[22:13] <Kerbero> but i should go to bed now
[22:25] <Symmetria> heh
[22:25] <Symmetria> Kerbero
[22:25] <Symmetria> try this
[22:25] <Symmetria> http://196.32.210.12:8765/udp/224.4.0.10:1234 
[22:25] <Symmetria> open that in VLC
[22:26] <Symmetria> its a multicast -> http proxy :P
[22:26] <Kerbero> udpxy?
[22:26] <Kerbero> lol
[22:26] <Kerbero> i know
[22:26] <Kerbero> i'm running it too
[22:26] <Symmetria> heh the difference is, that stream is actually coming off internet2 :P
[22:26] <Symmetria> thats a proper live stream via true internet multicast
[22:26] <Symmetria> :)
[22:27] <Kerbero> o
[22:27] <Kerbero> it's the open movie project on TV
[22:28] <Kerbero> i don't like the fact that udpxy runs everything on one tcp port
[22:28] <Kerbero> for stats
[22:29] <Kerbero> as a channel per port gives easier access to viewer counts
[22:29] <Kerbero> and with udpxy everything is on one
[22:29] <Kerbero> so only one total viewer count
[22:30] <Kerbero> interesting that that is only a udp stream
[22:30] <Kerbero> the original one
[22:30] <Kerbero> without rtp headers
[22:30] <Kerbero> but ok, talk again. very interesting stuff
[22:30] <Kerbero> sleep. now. must.
[22:30] <Symmetria> later man :)