[00:09] <pleia2> knome: once we finish edits, I think I'll close down account creation, you and everyone who has worked on it will still be able to log in, but not new people
[00:09] <pleia2> getting like 6 spam accounts created per hour, it's meh and moin doesn't have good controls for this
[00:09] <pleia2> (their response is "It's a wiki!")
[00:09] <knome> yeah
[00:10] <knome> can you moderate account creation?
[00:10] <pleia2> not without code changes
[00:10] <pleia2> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/DisableUserCreation outlines how to do it
[00:10] <knome> fss
[00:11] <knome> i mean moderation as in somebody needs to click a button
[00:11] <knome> :P
[00:11] <pleia2> I was hoping for that, alas...
[09:57] <knome> ooh! our doc wiki is down!
[10:20] <knome> mr_pouit, what's your schedule today?
[10:32] <mr_pouit> knome: not available, it's a good schedule :P
[10:32] <mr_pouit> I can upload any last minute change before UIF
[10:34] <knome> mr_pouit, what about the doc looks stuff?
[10:34] <knome> mr_pouit, do you think it's possible to review that quickly and push?
[10:35] <knome> mr_pouit, it's not perfect, but at least it's much better than what we've had before
[10:36] <knome> mr_pouit, if you know at what time you would get to that, i can try to make it better before
[10:37] <mr_pouit> I can't upload before 19 my local time anyway
[10:37] <mr_pouit> 17 UTC I guess
[10:37] <knome> ok
[10:37] <knome> i'll try to get fixes in by that then
[17:18] <knome> mr_pouit, bug #1043957
[17:23] <knome> bbl, about 19UTC
[17:24] <mr_pouit> okay
[17:33] <bluesabre> knome, I tried.  It's at least a little better organized.  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Troubleshooting
[17:50] <mr_pouit> ochosi: abiword patch is in
[17:51] <bluesabre> :'-) <-- Tears of happiness
[17:54] <bluesabre> uh oh, lightdm is in this apt-get update
[17:54] <bluesabre> (Don't break anything) :)
[19:03] <knome> micahg, what's the status with the indicators?
[19:13] <micahg> knome: removed for beta 1
[19:14] <knome> micahg, when are you expecting to get to reupload the gtk2 versions?
[19:14] <knome> is beta 2 realistic?
[19:14] <micahg> knome: mr_pouit is handling that, you're CCd on the E-Mail thread, so you should know as much as me at this point :)
[19:14] <micahg> yeah, should be
[19:15] <knome> ok, good enough for me. thanks! :)
[19:15] <bluesabre> :(
[19:15] <bluesabre> I miss the indicators already
[19:15] <knome> bluesabre, don't be sad... :)
[19:15] <knome> bluesabre, btw, the messaging indicator is probably not going to make it in Q
[19:16] <bluesabre> knome: And you say don't be sad?
[19:16] <knome> bluesabre, unless you wish to work on it...
[19:16] <bluesabre> D:
[19:16] <bluesabre> That's tempting
[19:16] <knome> well, i can't help it, so i'll try not to be sad. that's just how it is
[19:16] <bluesabre> Because I really like the messaging menu
[19:16] <knome> :)
[19:16] <knome> ask micahg and mr_pouit for details!
[19:16] <bluesabre> So, what's the deadline for that?
[19:17] <knome> or probably just mr_pouit :D
[19:17] <knome> bluesabre, deadline? feature freeze...
[19:17] <knome> bluesabre, but it'd be good to get them to beta 2 with FFe's
[19:17] <bluesabre> ok
[19:17] <bluesabre> mr_pouit: Do we have indicator-messages in a branch somewhere?
[19:25] <knome> anybody in the team who has got something new uploaded after alpha 3, please update http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1413&action=edit
[19:26] <knome> xubuntu-team members should be able to login with ubuntu sso at http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/
[19:26] <knome> if you have problems, be in touch with me
[19:26]  * knome will now release the edit lock
[19:28] <bluesabre> holy crap, you can integrate wordpress with ubuntu sso!
[19:28] <knome> yes, that's a canonical-provided feature
[19:29] <knome> i heard you can integrate apache with ubuntu sso...
[19:31] <bluesabre> I don't suppose app updates should be included?  (catfish/parole)
[19:32] <knome> well, if they are completely different than in a3, then include them
[19:32] <bluesabre> Cool
[19:32] <knome> we can always drop them from the final notes, if we have too much of them, but i don't think we will :)
[19:36] <knome> bluesabre, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png (updated a min ago, so take a look if you saw that url before)
[19:37] <bluesabre> Woohoo, we've made it to the future!
[19:37] <knome> yeah
[19:38] <bluesabre> Looks really good
[19:38] <knome> now we only need to update the content...
[19:38] <knome> thanks :)
[19:38]  * knome worked about 2h with it today
[19:38] <bluesabre> Impressive
[19:38] <bluesabre> Maybe we should call you knome-shell?
[19:38] <knome> hah :P
[19:39]  * holstein would totally run knome-shell!
[19:40] <knome> ha
[19:40] <bluesabre> How much work is it to take the wiki-formatted docs and convert back to our offline docs?
[19:40] <knome> i don't know docbook, but i believe it takes a few days
[19:41] <knome> should look at the syntax quickly someday
[19:41] <knome> we have about three weeks to update the doc strings, so now that the doc look is updated, we have again some breathing space with it
[19:41] <bluesabre> Cool
[19:42] <knome> after that, there's two weeks time to translate the docs
[19:42] <bluesabre> I tried to work on the Network Troubleshooting section, but only managed to clean it up a little bit and reorganize
[19:42] <knome> it's a good start
[19:43] <knome> ifconfig? isn't nm able to give connection info too
[19:43] <knome> right-click -> connection info
[19:46] <bluesabre> Ah
[19:46] <bluesabre> So it seems
[19:46] <bluesabre> That's a lot more user-friendly!
[19:47]  * bluesabre will return to editing
[20:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: it seems we'd also have to update our icon-theme for the messaging-menu... http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/ubuntu-add-new-message-indicator-icons
[20:37] <bluesabre> I saw that
[20:37] <ochosi> btw, the icons look horrible imo
[20:37] <bluesabre> I agree
[20:37] <bluesabre> We can do better
[20:37] <bluesabre> :D
[20:37] <ochosi> exactly :)
[20:38] <ochosi> at least if someone gets it to work
[20:38] <bluesabre> If we have a branch somewhere, I can have a look at it
[20:38] <ochosi> i don't think we do yet
[20:39] <ochosi> i'm wondering how mr_pouit works on code, maybe he just pulls it locally and then pushes it when he's done with it
[20:39] <ochosi> feel free to create at least a private branch in lp
[20:40] <bluesabre> I'm not even sure where to start.  Is it indicator-messages-gtk2 I'm assuming?
[20:40] <mr_pouit> re (quickly)
[20:41] <ochosi> i guess you'd have to look at the changes in the gtk3-version first
[20:41] <ochosi> oh, there is the man!
[20:41] <mr_pouit> bluesabre: you need to take lp:indicator-messages from bzr, the latest branch
[20:41] <mr_pouit> they changed the protocol, it's now libmessaging-menu, which uses some gtk3-only functions
[20:42] <bluesabre> So do we need to fork that too or something?
[20:42] <mr_pouit> you can try to port it to gtk2 ;>
[20:43] <bluesabre> I might play with that a bit then
[20:44] <ochosi> mr_pouit: so both would have to be ported to gtk2, indicator-messages and the lib?
[20:44] <mr_pouit> knome: I'll try to take care of indicator-application and indicator-sound this week-end
[20:44] <mr_pouit> ochosi: it's in the same source
[20:44] <ochosi> oh ok
[20:44] <mr_pouit> lubuntu only uses indicator-application by default, so basically they don't care with the rest
[20:45] <ochosi> hm, i see
[20:45] <ochosi> so no support from gilir then...
[20:46] <mr_pouit> ochosi: I usually push branches as soon as possible, unless I did some horrible and unclean and dirty and horrible again hacks ;>
[20:46] <ochosi> hehe, ok :)
[20:47] <ochosi> darn, seems i should fix another bug in albatross-gtk2 :/
[20:47] <bluesabre> I'm starting to consider buying that ultra-widescreen laptop
[20:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: which one?
[20:47] <mr_pouit> (I put my hacks at https://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/indicators-gtk2/ until i've cleaned that in a branch :P)
[20:47] <bluesabre> I forgot who makes it
[20:47] <bluesabre> But it has a 21:10 ratio I believe
[20:47] <ochosi> mr_pouit: uu, untrusted connection! should i trust it?? (:
[20:48] <mr_pouit> remove the 's' :P
[20:48] <pnarciso> hello all
[20:48] <ochosi> oh right, 's' as in untruSted
[20:48] <ochosi> ciao pnarciso 
[20:49] <pnarciso> italiano :)
[20:49] <ochosi> you seem to be quite quick from my last bugreport comment in lp to here :)
[20:49] <pnarciso> well, I'm digging testing xubuntu
[20:50] <ochosi> :)
[20:50] <pnarciso> great work 
[20:50] <ochosi> nice
[20:50] <ochosi> thanks, user-interface freeze kept us busy the last few days
[20:50] <ochosi> but since that deadline has passed we can go back to ignoring bugs and bugreports ;)
[20:51] <pnarciso> can you upload that background for the panel
[20:51] <pnarciso> I would like to test it
[20:51] <ochosi> you mean the one from the screenshot?
[20:51] <pnarciso> Yes, and more if you have
[20:51] <ochosi> i contacted the author a few times, but he never responded and it was entirely unclear under what license he had published it
[20:51] <ochosi> (somewhere on deviantart i think)
[20:51] <ochosi> but someone suggested a new one
[20:52] <ochosi> i can put it up somewhere for you to test
[20:52] <pnarciso> ok
[20:52] <ochosi> for private use i can also send you the other one
[20:52] <pnarciso> offcourse
[20:52] <ochosi> but we won't be able to use that in xubuntu i guess
[20:53] <pnarciso> It was a good idea to disable compositor by deafult, it causes more issues than advantages
[20:53] <ochosi> pnarciso: http://imagebin.org/226489
[20:53] <ochosi> mr_pouit: did we really disable the compositor by default?
[20:53] <bluesabre> personal branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/indicator-messages/indicator-messages-gtk2
[20:53] <bluesabre> I'll hack on it tonight (possibly) and tomorrow
[20:54] <ochosi> sounds great!
[20:54] <mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-default-settings/quantal/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml#L9
[20:54] <mr_pouit> ochosi: nope, it's still enabled
[20:54] <ochosi> that's what i thought
[20:54] <mr_pouit> (unless something changed in xfwm4)
[20:55] <ochosi> pnarciso: ^
[20:55] <Sysi> for some reason indicator-messages fix reminds me about guy who thought about making irc bot with Qt
[20:55] <mr_pouit> but the bottom dock-like panel would look ugly with compositing anyway
[20:55] <pnarciso> I'm talking about the decision in one of your meetings
[20:55] <pnarciso> at least for the live cd
[20:55] <ochosi> pnarciso: afair there was only a discussion, then astraljava should've investigated switching off the compositor just for the live-session
[20:56] <ochosi> but since that never went down (i guess because RL got in the way) it's still enabled everywhere
[20:56] <ochosi> mr_pouit: not if it had a background-image or something
[20:56] <mr_pouit> yeah
[20:56] <ochosi> but yeah, as long as xfwm4's borders are broken, i'm happy we have some shadow behind windows...
[20:57] <mr_pouit> hehe
[20:57] <mr_pouit> bbl, maybe
[20:57] <ochosi> ok, ttyl
[20:58] <pnarciso> I've just put that background image and it looks gooood
[20:58] <ochosi> screenshot?
[21:01] <pnarciso> http://imagebin.org/226492
[21:02] <ochosi> yeah, doesn't look bad
[21:02] <ochosi> there's a bug though with it
[21:02] <ochosi> not sure why
[21:02] <ochosi> look at the trash-icon
[21:02] <ochosi> the lines break before and after
[21:02] <bluesabre> mr_pouit: Just to make sure I'm in the right direction, does (gtk_widget_insert_action_group) ring a bell?
[21:02] <ochosi> (i guess because it's not a launcher but a plugin)
[21:03] <ochosi> bluesabre: he left at 22:57
[21:03] <ochosi> (oops, that's in my TZ)
[21:03] <bluesabre> I see that now
[21:03] <ochosi> :)
[21:03] <bluesabre> But I think that's right
[21:03] <ochosi> maybe it's worth talking to indicator-devs
[21:03] <ochosi> not sure they'll be helpful
[21:03] <bluesabre> I'm curious to see how far I get
[21:03] <bluesabre> :D
[21:03] <ochosi> but we could try to make them feel bad :p
[21:04] <ochosi> hehe, ok
[21:07] <pnarciso> another fix that landed today was for abiword, rullers aren't black anymore
[21:08] <ochosi> yes i read
[21:08] <ochosi> i just fired up my vbox just to test that
[21:09] <ochosi> but i guess i have to change repos to the main server
[21:09] <ochosi> fix hasnt landed on my mirror yet
[21:11] <pnarciso> the problem right now is the flashing when scrolling the pages with mouse wheel or scroll bars
[21:11] <ochosi> pnarciso: btw, do you have a hardware install or are you using virtualisation to test quantal?
[21:12] <ochosi> meh, i can confirm the flickering with vbox :(
[21:12] <pnarciso> I have both
[21:12] <ochosi> also: i'm not sure i like the grey background of the rulers
[21:12] <ochosi> i'd have preferred if they had used the base-color, not the bg-color
[21:13] <pnarciso> well, that's a thing that must be changed in the theme I guess
[21:13] <ochosi> not sure it can be changed
[21:14] <ochosi> abiword uses a very very custom widget for the rulers
[21:15] <ochosi> wow, this time ubuntu's community wallpapers are better than ever before
[21:18] <bluesabre> Yeah, WAYYYYY better than 12.04's wps
[21:18] <bluesabre> btw, the indicator-devs are jerks... using functions that are introduced in gtk 3.6
[21:19] <bluesabre> It will make this a funnnnnnn project
[21:19] <ochosi> yeah, well in short they don't care about us
[21:20] <bluesabre> I think I'm just going to try to drop the new "essential" stuff into the code for gtk2
[21:20] <bluesabre> and wrestle with it
[21:22] <ochosi> hmm
[21:23] <ochosi> what do the new functions do?
[21:24] <bluesabre> They use things that weren't available in gtk2
[21:24] <bluesabre> Like using a menu model
[21:25] <GridCube> thats like using new stuff to do new stuff, how they dare!
[21:25] <bluesabre> not exactly
[21:25] <bluesabre> the menu model existed in gtk2
[21:25] <bluesabre> but it appears like you couldn't actually use it for a menu
[21:25] <bluesabre> or at least, I haven't figured it out yet
[21:28] <pnarciso> can we expect new changes regarding how menu is displayed? Is this what you are working on?
[21:28] <ochosi> pnarciso: what do you mean with "how menu is displayed"? what menu?
[21:28] <knome> bluesabre, thanks for picking it up :)
[21:28] <ochosi> ahoi mighty XPL
[21:28] <bluesabre> knome, no promises
[21:28] <knome> hey ochosi 
[21:29] <bluesabre> I'm going to try
[21:29] <bluesabre> really hard
[21:29] <knome> bluesabre, at least you're trying... and seriously man, you have three weeks
[21:29] <bluesabre> but can't guarantee anything
[21:29] <knome> ;)
[21:29] <bluesabre> lol
[21:29] <pnarciso> the subject that bluesabre is talking
[21:29] <ochosi> pnarciso: we lost the indicators from the panel in 12.10 for now
[21:29] <ochosi> pnarciso: bluesabre and mr_pouit are working to get them back
[21:29] <bluesabre> My goal is to get them back in at least their previous form
[21:30] <ochosi> yeah, that would be enough imo
[21:30] <ochosi> for 13.04 we need an entirely new plan
[21:30] <ochosi> (prolly involving a gtk3 panel)
[21:30] <bluesabre> Does the panel depend on a lot of xf-stuff, or is it largely gtk2 only?
[21:31] <ochosi> not sure
[21:31] <ochosi> i think the main problem are all the plugins and goodies...
[21:32] <pnarciso> Ok, I get it, that why I can't see the mail indicator or gmusic browser
[21:32] <ochosi> exactly
[21:33] <pnarciso> is this because xfce still haven't migrated to gtk3?
[21:34] <ochosi> yes
[21:34] <ochosi> basically
[21:34] <pnarciso> have you tried to contact xfce devs for a workaround
[21:35] <ochosi> indicators have nothing to do with xfce, they're done by ubuntu
[21:35] <bluesabre> heading out, bbl
[21:35] <ochosi> we can only hope that the panel will get ported in time for 13.04
[21:35] <bluesabre> seeya guys
[21:35] <knome> whatsoever, yes, we are in constant communication with the xfce devs
[21:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: k, seeya later
[21:35] <knome> see you bluesabre 
[21:38] <pnarciso> with xfce now the default DE in debian, let's hope more ppl join xfce team, it's a great DE but it's lagging behind
[21:38] <ochosi> well, it has been a very small team pretty much always
[21:39] <knome> ubuntu looks like keeping alternate at least for beta 1, so probably we should too.
[21:42] <pnarciso> in the past week alternate install was the only way to install daily build
[21:42] <knome> i installed with desktop
[21:42] <pnarciso> don't know if those problem were fixed by now
[21:43] <knome> it wasn't today, maybe 2 days ago
[21:44] <pnarciso> xorg 1.13 really messed up
[21:44] <knome> only by one pixel, so not a lot..
[21:44] <knome> ;)
[21:46] <knome> re: alternate, looks like ubuntu is dropping it anyway. stgraber just wants to fix ltsp on alternate before they drop it ;)
[21:46] <pnarciso> and firefox crashed with xorg 1.13
[21:46] <knome> firefox crashes even without xorg :)
[21:47] <pnarciso> about multimedia support for ubuntu, do you have any improvements in mind for parole, or even thinking changing to another video player?
[21:49] <ochosi> pnarciso: bluesabre and me improved parole quite a bit
[21:50] <ochosi> pnarciso: have you tried it in 12.10?
[21:50] <pnarciso> I have tried parole and I think it's very weak
[21:50] <pnarciso> bluesabre haven't tried yet
[21:50] <pnarciso> I usually use smplayer, for me the best
[21:53] <pnarciso> forgeat about the bluesabre part, I read wrong :)
[21:53] <ochosi> :)
[21:53] <pnarciso> parole lacks option to choose what renderer to use
[21:53] <ochosi> renderer?
[21:53] <pnarciso> gl, vdapu, vv
[21:53] <pnarciso> xv
[21:54] <ochosi> not a very basic feature tbh
[21:54] <pnarciso> without this options i'm stuck with video tearing
[21:54] <ochosi> depends, i dunno what gstreamer uses by default
[21:55] <pnarciso> I think is XV
[21:55] <pnarciso> dunno
[21:55] <ochosi> not sure, we're using a newer version of playbin now
[21:55] <ochosi> (i mean since parole 0.3.0)
[21:55] <pnarciso> 0.3.0.3
[21:55] <pnarciso> is the latest version in repo
[21:56] <ochosi> yeah, it's our latest release
[21:57] <pnarciso> using mplayer would be a better option
[21:58] <pnarciso> more versatile and it support a lot of video renderers
[21:58] <pnarciso> I have nvidia and I can use vdpau
[21:59] <ochosi> mhm
[21:59] <ochosi> i'm off for tonight, talk to you soon
[22:00] <pnarciso> see ya
[23:16] <amerigena> so, does the Network Troubleshooting section of the wiki need edits or not?
[23:17] <pleia2> amerigena: what name are you using on the wiki?
[23:17] <pleia2> looks like a JackFromm is actively editing that page
[23:17] <knome> pleia2, bluesabre was on it too :)
[23:18] <knome> but generally, if you think you can improve it..
[23:18] <knome> pleia2, would you like to go through some sections and see if they'd be ready to publish?
[23:18] <knome> pleia2, if yes, make the "checked out" sections with bold
[23:18] <pleia2> knome: can't right now :(
[23:18] <pleia2> still working, then have an appointment, then more work, then packing!
[23:19] <knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png
[23:19] <knome> pleia2, you didn't see that yet!
[23:19] <pleia2> pretty :)
[23:19] <knome> pleia2, yeah, and you know what? it's uploaded
[23:19] <pleia2> :D
[23:20] <knome> so more breathing space before docstringfreeze.. .)
[23:20] <knome> + another eye
[23:22] <knome> but yeah, ok if you can't
[23:22] <knome> i'll see if i have time for some tomorrow
[23:44] <pnarciso> hey guys
[23:45] <amerigena> RichDennis
[23:45] <pleia2> amerigena: ok, JackFromm's last edit was 5 minutes ago so it looks like he's actively editing that page and it doesn't need attention at this very moment
[23:45] <amerigena> that's the name I'm using on the wiki
[23:46] <amerigena> OK. Are there any pages that do need editing?
[23:46] <amerigena> Or is it all done?
[23:46] <pleia2> knome: ^^
[23:46] <pleia2> (I don't know :))
[23:48] <knome> uh
[23:48] <knome> there's something to do yeah
[23:53] <pnarciso> the panel indicators are behaving weird, I just lost my x-chat panel indicator :)
[23:54] <pnarciso> have xubuntu 12.10 entered feature freeze by now ?
[23:55] <pleia2> yeah, everything did today
[23:55] <pleia2> you can still submit bugs though, fixes can get in :)
[23:56] <pnarciso> I would like to make a sugestion regarding a keyboard shorcut to enable/disable compositor on the fly
[23:56] <pleia2> ah, that sort of thing would be better as a suggestion for the next cycle
[23:56] <Book_em_Dano>  does anyone need help w/ DocBook editing for the overhaul of the Xubuntu offline documentation?
[23:56] <pnarciso> ahh ok
[23:57] <pnarciso> I come up with a really nice script to do that
[23:57] <pleia2> Book_em_Dano: we absolutely do! but I think we're not quite ready yet (still have folks working on the rewrite)
[23:57] <pnarciso> and it's very useful
[23:57] <pleia2> Book_em_Dano: so please stick around, we'll need you :)
[23:57] <pnarciso> if someone need portuguese translations I can help
[23:58] <pleia2> pnarciso: great, so each cycle we create a planning document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[23:58] <pleia2> when we're creating that, there are posts on the xubuntu-devel mailing list, so I'd suggest signing up for that if you haven't already