[00:00] <pnarciso> ok
[00:00] <pnarciso> we are entering the bug fix period for now then
[00:00] <pleia2> yep
[00:00] <SkippersBoss> When does the rewrite need to be done for
[00:01] <pleia2> "soon"
[00:01] <pleia2> we need to give time to editors to review, and then the docbook folks to convert
[00:01] <SkippersBoss> /dev/soon/
[00:01] <pleia2> and we have 3 weeks to do it all
[00:02] <SkippersBoss> yhans
[00:02] <pleia2> (docs freeze is sept 20)
[00:02] <pnarciso> right now there's the plugin indicators bug and it seems xorg is messing with the themes
[00:02] <SkippersBoss> Oooooh
[00:03] <SkippersBoss> so i can spent some time wioth my folks then this weekend
[00:03] <pleia2> well docs freeze is when we have to have it all edited and checked into docbook
[00:03] <knome> Book_em_Dano, i'll probably need to be overseeing the docbook stuff this cycle, and pass it on to somebody else later... i think it would be ideal if we could sit down and look how the current docbook stuff works, and how you'd suggest for us to edit the docbook markup
[00:03] <pleia2> so we need the actual stuff written well before tha t:)
[00:04] <SkippersBoss> pleia2, pressure hmm
[00:04] <knome> pleia2, if i get my head around the docbook syntax (which i will make sure i will), one week will be enough.
[00:04] <SkippersBoss> i have xfburn doc to write as well
[00:04] <knome> three weeks is pressure? nah, three hours is
[00:04] <pleia2> knome: great \o/
[00:05] <knome> pleia2, so two weeks for rewriting, but i'd like to have about a week for final checking out and making sure our "syntax" is the same everywhere
[00:05] <knome> i'm already thinking
[00:05] <SkippersBoss> knome. pleia2 said "well before"
[00:05] <knome> "press" versus "click"
[00:05] <knome> and how should we mark menu paths and buttons
[00:05] <SkippersBoss> EUH ?
[00:06] <knome> SkippersBoss, what i say overrides what pleia2 says ;)
[00:06] <pleia2> lol
[00:06] <pleia2> knome is the boss
[00:06] <SkippersBoss> All hail to knome
[00:06] <knome> i do agree with her though, but i think one week is good for the docbook conversion
[00:06] <knome> so that's well enough
[00:07] <pleia2> knome: were you counting editing time in rewrite time?
[00:07] <SkippersBoss> Like i said my folks are here till monday. After that I should have plenty time left to....
[00:07] <knome> pleia2, yes
[00:07] <pleia2> ok, gotcha
[00:08] <knome> pleia2, so maybe 1 week for rewriting, then freeze "new stuff", 1 week for editing and overseeing everything is in place, and 1 week for to convert to docbook
[00:08] <pleia2> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
[00:08] <knome> SkippersBoss, to give you an idea of "pressure", i started the documentation look redesign 6 hours before the UI freeze ;)
[00:08] <SkippersBoss> Ueberboss lol
[00:09] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/doclooks-update.png
[00:09] <knome> that's how it'll look
[00:09] <knome> i'd say that's a slight improvement to the 11.10 style ;)
[00:10] <knome> only a slight, but that's better than nothing
[00:10] <knome> O:)
[00:10] <SkippersBoss> sleek
[00:11] <SkippersBoss> Simple but effective
[00:11] <knome> i hope that gives the documentation writers some motivation
[00:12] <knome> SkippersBoss, conscience judging, feel free to add yourself as a contributor in the "credits and license" page
[00:12] <knome> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Credits%20and%20License
[00:12] <knome> that
[00:13] <knome> pleia2, do you think we've missed somebody else?
[00:14] <jjfrv8> knome, can you let use know if you do settle on a standard "syntax" so we can make a final pass through before rewrite ends?
[00:14] <knome> pleia2, (asking since you've been watching the commit notifications..)
[00:14] <knome> jjfrv8, sure. we should settle on that soonish, and that's what we should do in a week or so :)
[00:15] <knome> jjfrv8, i'll create a page on the wiki for the syntax later
[00:15] <jjfrv8> OK
[00:15] <knome> jjfrv8, if you have recommendations, we could look at that now..
[00:16] <pleia2> HowardChan
[00:16] <jjfrv8> Not really.  I was kicking it around in my head but not enough to come up with a recommendation.
[00:16] <pleia2> RichDennis
[00:25] <knome> jjfrv8, http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/StandardSyntax
[00:26] <jjfrv8> knome, Duly noted.
[00:27] <knome> jjfrv8, that's just a proposal
[00:27] <knome> jjfrv8, i believe that syntax is quite widely used already though
[00:28] <jjfrv8> knome, Gotcha. And if I have any suggestions, I'll pass them along.
[00:28] <knome> yup!
[00:28] <knome> thanks
[00:35] <SkippersBoss> guys I m going to try a horizontal position
[00:35] <SkippersBoss> have a good evening
[00:38] <knome> good night
[01:50] <amerigena> the links, on the offline documentation, the ones that say Create New Page - are those works in progress that someone else is doing, or do they need work?
[01:54] <pleia2> amerigena: like what?
[01:55] <pleia2> the ones that are crossed off we aren't doing
[01:55] <pleia2> I didn't think any of the links were still pointing to "create new page" but if they are they do need to be written
[01:55] <amerigena> I see one called The Desktop - never mind. Crossed out. My bad. Forget I said anything.
[01:55] <pleia2> no worries :)
[01:56] <smartboyhw> :)
[01:56] <pleia2> so the bold ones are "done"
[01:56] <pleia2> the rest need attention
[01:56] <pleia2> (the rest that aren't crossed out)
[01:56] <amerigena> I'm just trying to find one to work on. I was working on Troubleshooting, but somebody improved it, big time.
[01:56] <pleia2> yeah
[01:57] <pleia2> maybe some under "keeping your computer safe"?
[01:58] <amerigena> Fair enough. I'll work on some of them.
[01:58] <pleia2> thanks!
[01:58]  * pleia2 cleans up wiki spam
[02:11] <amerigena> Tried working on one. Get a message that there was an edit conflict.
[02:12] <pleia2> doh, that's one smartboyhw was working on
[02:14] <pleia2> it should show warnings when there are two editors
[09:20] <knome> pleia2, that's why i also proposed etherpad for working :)
[09:20] <knome> pleia2, == editing is visible
[09:21] <knome> mr_pouit, ochosi: did the new panel config get uploaded?
[09:49] <ochosi> knome: i dunno :)
[09:49] <knome> heh
[09:50] <knome> i'll chek
[09:50] <knome> but what should i?
[09:50] <ochosi> ?
[09:50] <knome> if it's uploaded, what should i see?
[09:51] <ochosi> no trash plugin, but catfish
[09:51] <knome> k
[09:51] <knome> let's see
[09:51] <knome> i'll boot up quantal and delete .config
[09:51] <ochosi> didn't you read the spec? :>
[09:51] <knome> i did, but i'm in middle of three things
[09:52] <knome> yup, it's in
[09:53] <ochosi> good
[09:53] <smartboyhw> knome: So what will happen to the edit conflict in the documentation http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keep%20your%20software%20up%20to%20date
[09:54] <knome> somebody needs to manually solve it
[09:55] <knome> i prefer the topmost version of those
[09:55] <knome> because i intend to copy them to one long page
[09:55] <knome> that is, http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keeping%20your%20computer%20safe
[09:55] <smartboyhw> Sure, the top one is my version I think...
[09:55] <knome> yeah, regardless of who did it ;)
[09:56] <knome> i can resolve...
[09:56] <smartboyhw> ;)
[09:56] <smartboyhw> Thanks knome
[09:56] <ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether the "warning" icon is really better than the "info" icon you used before
[09:56] <knome> ochosi, for what?
[09:56] <knome> ochosi, those are for two different use cases
[09:57] <ochosi> e.g. here for "While it is possible.." http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Keeping%20your%20computer%20safe
[09:57] <ochosi> i can see that you're using them for different messages
[09:58] <knome> ochosi, well, warning means "don't do this if unsure"
[09:58] <ochosi> just not sure the yellow warning icon would visually be less discomforting :)
[09:58] <knome> the note talks about not setting autologin
[09:58] <knome> oh, you mean that
[09:58] <knome> mmwell
[09:58] <knome> we can have like 5 or 6 different icons
[09:58] <smartboyhw> I think warning is better.
[09:58] <knome> that's how docbook currently works ;)
[09:58] <ochosi> ok, it's fine
[09:58] <ochosi> just wanted to mention it
[09:59] <knome> ochosi, we should look at that in a week, when everything is written, and make sure we're using them consistently anyway
[09:59] <ochosi> yeah, sounds good
[10:00] <knome> "The update process may take a while if many updates need to be installed."
[10:00] <knome> of course it might take a while...
[10:00] <knome> removing
[10:00] <elfy> knome: do you know if there's to be a beta today 
[10:01] <knome> elfy, unfortunately no, i'm not on top of that thing
[10:01] <elfy> k
[10:01] <smartboyhw> Build errors....
[10:01] <knome> elfy, actually, i think the beta images are going to be up on monday
[10:01] <knome> now that i think it more than 2 milliseconds
[10:01] <elfy> oh - ok - will check it then :)
[10:03] <knome> smartboyhw, resolved
[10:03] <smartboyhw> knome: Yay
[10:04] <smartboyhw> knome: You mean the documentation or the build errors?
[10:04] <knome> the documentation edit conflict
[10:05] <smartboyhw> Ah. How about ISO build errors?:)
[10:05] <knome> i'm not able to resolve those.
[10:06] <smartboyhw> Uh oh
[10:08] <smartboyhw> knome: Sorry for asking, then who is able to resolve it?:)
[10:12] <elfy> knome: not sure that Keryx should be on http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Installing%20packages%20without%20an%20Internet%20connection?action=edit&line=1 - well out of date it seems
[10:12] <elfy> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Installing%20packages%20without%20an%20Internet%20connection
[10:12] <elfy> I mean 
[10:17] <smartboyhw> Also a strange bit: Who can add their names in http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Credits%20and%20License ?
[10:19] <knome> elfy, keryx is mentioned in the ubuntu docs, so i added it there
[10:19] <elfy> ok - perhaps it shouldn't be there either though :)
[10:19] <smartboyhw> This one: http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Getting%20to%20know%20your%20desktop%20environment It is a bit too short.
[10:19] <elfy> knome: you want me to fill in some detail for it ?
[10:20] <knome> elfy, try starting with what's on help.ubuntu.com and see if needs updating
[10:20] <elfy> ok
[10:22] <smartboyhw> Actually I want to say that just now I added the lines from help.ubuntu.com and saved it (keryx), hopefully elfy won't kill me
[11:21] <mr_pouit> knome: of course. You order, I upload :P
[11:23] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
[11:24] <mr_pouit> hey!
[11:24] <ochosi> i think i asked about this before, but do you have any clue what would be needed for gtk-greeter to support compositing/transparency?
[11:24] <mr_pouit> a window manager probably :>
[11:24] <ochosi> hmm
[11:25] <ochosi> would it be an option to use xfwm4 there?
[11:29] <knome> mr_pouit, hehe :)
[12:53] <knome> bbl
[12:53] <smartboyhw> ?
[12:54] <holstein> bbl = be back later
[12:54] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:03] <pleia2> smartboyhw: please don't create a HowardChan page on this wiki, it's really only for xubuntu edits (and when you create such a page it sends up a flag in my spam system)
[15:03] <pleia2> (I'm deleting the page, caught it before I deleted your account)
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Ok.
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Sorry mate
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Never do it again:) Don't delete my account
[15:04] <smartboyhw> pleia2: PLEASE
[15:05] <pleia2> I said I didn't
[15:09] <smartboyhw> :)
[15:09] <smartboyhw> Thanks pleia2
[15:21] <bluesabre> This line in the documentation sounds fibby.  "The Swfdec and Gnash players are not proprietary and so are supported. You may also find them to be more stable (cause fewer problems) than the official player."
[15:22] <ochosi> i'm also uncertain whether it's true (cause fewer problems)
[15:22] <ochosi> i think they just provide you with a different set of problems...
[15:23] <bluesabre> Yeah
[15:23] <pleia2> also makes us sound like we hate open source "not proprietary? we only use awesome proprietary stuff!"
[15:24] <pleia2> but yeah, all wrong
[15:31] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, what would've been really nice is finding out whether USC's back/forward icons can be separately themed
[15:31] <ochosi> bluesabre: our current icons don't work that well there..
[15:32] <bluesabre> You don't think so?
[15:32] <bluesabre> I don't think they look bad
[15:32] <ochosi> ?
[15:32] <ochosi> oh ok
[15:32] <ochosi> hmm
[15:32] <ochosi> dunno, for one, they're scaled...
[15:33] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/226604
[15:33] <bluesabre> ?
[15:33] <ochosi> yes, the arrows are kinda blurry
[15:33] <bluesabre> A little bit
[15:33] <bluesabre> That was the first time I noticed
[15:34] <ochosi> not blurry: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08312012-053355pm.php
[15:34] <ochosi> yippie! i noticed something bluesabre didn't notice! :)
[15:34] <bluesabre> lol
[15:34] <bluesabre> You're the graphic designer, after all
[15:34] <bluesabre> :D
[15:34] <ochosi> i guess now you're really part of the team, the blindness starts ;)
[15:35] <ochosi> another slap in the face of all real graphic designers :p
[15:35] <bluesabre> lol
[15:35] <bluesabre> Hey, all the "real" graphic designers just make things look like Mac
[15:36] <ochosi> haha
[15:36] <ochosi> nice one
[17:37] <bluesabre> I wonder if we should really have information about how to rip DVDs in http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Movies%2C%20DVDs%20and%20Videos
[17:38] <Unit193> s/rip/backup/ and it's a real reason.  DVDs can easily get messed up, and more people have larger HDDs.
[17:39] <bluesabre> Yeah
[17:40] <bluesabre> At least I removed the part about ripping to ogg making the videos royalty and patent free
[17:40] <Unit193> But I'm just giving input, not any sort of end word. :P
[17:44] <Sysi> we should maybe add "How to start application in specific workspace" to FAQ or docs
[17:45] <Unit193> GridCube: Idea ----^
[17:46] <Sysi> it seems to be somewhat commonly wanted feature
[17:47] <bluesabre> That might be a good idea :)
[17:47] <GridCube> :) good, adding it to my 12.10-faq.txt
[17:48] <bluesabre> Anybody want to replace F-Spot in our documentation with Shotwell?
[17:48] <bluesabre> Since Shotwell seems to have largely killed it off
[17:49] <GridCube> arent we using gThumb?
[17:49] <Unit193> By default.
[17:49] <bluesabre> Oh yeah
[17:49] <bluesabre> Anybody want to replace F-Spot in our documentation with gThumb?
[17:50] <bluesabre> :D
[17:51] <bluesabre> gThumb doesn't like SVGs btw
[17:51] <bluesabre> Makes me sad
[17:51] <Sysi> GridCube: maybe both possibilities, wmctrl and devilspie since they give some different functionality