[09:29] <ochosi> micahg: do you think it makes sense to ask tedg (or someone else) for some support porting the indicator-messages back to gtk2 (i'm not talking about coding or anything, just answering questions)
[09:31] <mr_pouit> ochosi: hey there (porting indicator-messages means basically reimplementing/copypasting 2 or 3 gtk3-only functions in gtk2, so I doubt tedg will answer)
[09:35] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah i know. the main blocker for bluesabre atm are the gtk-actions and gtk-action-groups
[09:35] <ochosi> (tbh even though they also exist in gtk2 i can't wrap my head around how to re-implement them)
[10:12] <mr_pouit> ochosi: also, usb-disk-creator showing in settings manager is due to its desktop file (Category=Settings, but there's no settings in this app, it's wrong)
[10:34] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, so i'll re-assign the bugreport
[11:31] <mr_pouit> ochosi: bluesabre already filed one :P
[11:31] <ochosi> mr_pouit: darn... :)
[13:15] <pnarciso> hello
[13:16] <ochosi> hi
[13:16] <smartboyhw> hi
[13:16] <pnarciso> hey, ochosi, with the beta coming out this week, do we have any hope to see panel gtk indicators fixed?
[13:17] <ochosi> pnarciso: probably not for beta1, but we're working on it
[13:18] <ochosi> pnarciso: keep your hopes low for indicator-messages, that's the hardest to fix, the others we can hopefully get in for 12.10
[13:18] <ochosi> (i.e. -sound and -application)
[13:19] <pnarciso> I haven't encountered much bugs
[13:19] <smartboyhw> Oh
[13:19] <pnarciso> power manager config manager sometimes refuse to run
[13:20] <ochosi> pnarciso: oh, that's bad to hear. i've encountered these problems also with xfce4.10 in 12.04
[13:20] <ochosi> if the config-manager refuses to start, that means powerman doesn't run or has crashed
[13:20] <pnarciso> Also, why we have two monitor power configurations? one in screensaver and the other in power manager
[13:21] <ochosi> that's because both provide it
[13:21] <ochosi> they're not related at all though and might use different functions, i'm not sure
[13:21] <pnarciso> but what's the prevailing
[13:21] <ochosi> we wanted to replace xscreensaver with something else, but didn't have enough time to make lightdm a screenlocker
[13:21] <ochosi> so both will prevail
[13:22] <ochosi> oh
[13:22] <ochosi> well, i mean both will stay installed, in this sense "prevail" :)
[13:22] <ochosi> i don't know which of the two has priority
[13:22] <ochosi> ideally you'd only set that in one of the two apps
[13:22] <pnarciso> that's my doubt
[13:22] <pnarciso> power manager in x screensaver is not working
[13:23] <pnarciso> at least in my rig
[13:23] <pnarciso> if you could test it, would be nice
[13:23] <ochosi> what specifically doesn't work?
[13:23] <pnarciso> monitor standby
[13:24] <ochosi> ok, i'll give it a try
[13:24] <pnarciso> xfce power manager sometimes works
[13:25] <pnarciso> alsa, I experienced come hard system freeze, while just in desktop
[13:25] <pnarciso> also, I experienced come hard system freeze, while just in desktop
[13:25] <pnarciso> also, I experienced some hard system freeze, while just in desktop
[13:26] <pnarciso> with the latest 3.5 kernel
[13:26] <pnarciso> I'm now testing 3.6 rc4 to see if it's more stable
[13:28] <ochosi> hmyeah, seems like xscreensaver isn't working in this respect
[13:28] <ochosi> (monitor standby)
[13:28] <pnarciso> that's what I thought
[13:29] <ochosi> i haven't extensively tested this though yet
[13:30] <pnarciso> well, in my rig, when I disable power management in xfce and enable it in x screensaver, monitor doesnt enter standby.
[13:30] <ochosi> yeah, that's what i just tried
[13:31] <ochosi> but i didn't restart anything after setting this option in xscreensaver
[13:31] <ochosi> e.g.
[13:31] <pnarciso> Only when I set in xfce power it works, but with power manager crashing all the time, it's not very good
[13:31] <ochosi> yeah, agreed
[13:31] <ochosi> could you file a bug about the power-manager on launchpad?
[13:33] <ochosi> i'll check first whether there's a report upsteram
[13:33] <ochosi> upstream
[13:33] <pnarciso> there's already one bug filed in that manner : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/973778
[13:35] <ochosi> quite a few comments there
[13:35] <pnarciso> well, gotta go to work, see ya soon
[13:35] <pnarciso> bye
[13:35] <ochosi> yup, bye
[19:51] <pnarciso> hello
[19:51] <cc_INC> howdy
[19:55] <pnarciso> hey guys, if you use openoffice in quantal, the latest updates broke the menus
[19:57] <amerigena> pnarciso : you try installing dropbox on Quantal yet?
[19:58] <pnarciso> no, I usually run virtual machines in Windows through Vmware
[19:59] <amerigena> OK.
[19:59] <pnarciso> ok, forget it, I was thinking in virtualbox
[20:00] <pnarciso> No, I never tried that service, no need
[20:01] <amerigena> I'm installing Libreoffice right now to see what happens/
[20:14] <pnarciso> are you on xubuntu 12.10?
[20:33] <amerigena> Yeah, I'm working with 12.10. And you are correct, no menus in LO after updates.
[20:35] <ochosi> hm, could be that ubuntu is patching them away for their global menu
[20:36] <knome> hey ochosi 
[20:38] <ochosi> hi
[20:41] <amerigena> K.
[20:44] <pnarciso> ochosi, could be but it seems they haven't tested the changes properly
[20:44] <pnarciso> release is not that far away, and ubuntu is a bit of a mess right now, especially compiz
[20:53] <ochosi> pnarciso: so have you tested unity as well?
[20:53] <pnarciso> I'm testing both ubuntu and xubuntu
[20:53] <pnarciso> the menus are working in unity
[20:54] <ochosi> are they still attached to the window or are they in the panel (=global-menu)?
[20:54] <pnarciso> global menu
[20:55] <ochosi> hm, that explains it i guess
[20:56] <ochosi> if they don't fix that for ppl without global menus, that will be a fantastic release
[20:56] <pnarciso> lol
[20:56] <pnarciso> they usually fix one thing and break another
[20:57] <pnarciso> but there's still time until release
[20:57] <ochosi> and usually they don't care if they break things just for others
[20:57] <ochosi> but please report a bug about this
[20:57] <ochosi> hopefully somebody will take notice
[20:57] <pnarciso> there's already a bug about it
[20:58] <ochosi> link?
[20:59] <pnarciso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1044657
[21:01] <pnarciso> and about xubuntu 12.10, have you decided what's is the deafult package manager?
[21:02] <ochosi> yeah, USC will stay, synaptic will go
[21:02] <pnarciso> :(
[21:02] <pnarciso> not a very good decision
[21:02] <pnarciso> USC is slow and buggy
[21:02] <ochosi> there were no good/real alternatives
[21:02] <pnarciso> and sometimes have issues installing external debs
[21:03] <ochosi> installing external debs with synaptic never really worked for me
[21:03] <ochosi> so...
[21:03] <pnarciso> I use gdebi
[21:03] <ochosi> anyway, i (and i think i can speak for many here) don't like USC and know how crappy it is
[21:03] <ochosi> but there are certain things you can't do without it
[21:04] <pnarciso> well, let's see if canonical improve it a little more \
[21:04]  * ochosi isn't keeping his hopes too high
[21:05] <ochosi> seriously, i looked for alternatives, but there weren't any
[21:05] <pnarciso> anyway, synaptic will be installed as soon as I install the distro
[21:05] <ochosi> there is lubuntu-software-center, but that's still a bit half-baked
[21:05] <pnarciso> yes, between the two I prefer USC
[21:07] <pnarciso> but you have to change the icons because USC and synaptic have now the same icons
[21:07] <ochosi> we won't be able to do that for 12.10
[21:07] <ochosi> UI freeze is over
[21:08] <pnarciso> but a ppa could be done for that, or not?
[21:08] <ochosi> yeah, or if you wanna fix it for yourself simply delete a few of the icons
[21:09] <pnarciso> with some changes that could not enter the final stage
[21:09] <ochosi> yeah, that's always possible i guess
[21:09] <ochosi> but how many ppl will we really reach with such a ppa
[21:10] <ochosi> also: ideally ppl will only have one package manager installed :)
[21:10] <pnarciso> yes, ideally, but I do not think USC is a good alternative to synaptic
[21:11] <pnarciso> Also, Xubuntu 12.04 had both
[21:11] <ochosi> yes, but our iso files are oversized for 12.10
[21:11] <ochosi> we have a real lack of space
[21:11] <knome> that doesn't mean there should be both in the new releases too
[21:12] <knome> and really, 1) people can still install synaptic 2) those who want advanced package management can probably live with apt-get too, if they don't want to install synaptic
[21:12] <pnarciso> I get that
[21:13] <knome> we aren't leaving anybody with USC only..
[21:13] <pnarciso> you have to cut on something, and synaptic had to go
[21:13] <ochosi> pnarciso: i still like synaptic, but it seems it's not very much maintained/developed anymore
[21:13] <knome> it's not only the space issue
[21:13] <knome> also what ochosi said (not maintained)
[21:14] <knome> i'm personally prefer synaptic over USC too, but i think that USC is better for many many users
[21:14] <knome> and i notice i'm using apt-get anyway, so even if i like synaptic, i'm not using it much
[21:15] <ochosi> pnarciso: but anyway, it'd be good if you attend meetings in the next cycle and add your voice
[21:15] <knome> ++ for that
[21:15] <ochosi> we always try to invite people to those meetings, but there are rarely "newcomers" that really show up
[21:16] <pnarciso> I'll do
[21:16] <knome> if you want to affect the development, attending the meetings especially on the roadmap building phase is meaningful
[21:16] <pnarciso> I'm a linux newbie
[21:16] <satya164> ochosi: what I install in synaptic as dependency, is also marked as manually installed
[21:16] <knome> that's the time when we decide what to work on for the next release
[21:16] <pnarciso> but I'm into beta testing
[21:16] <ochosi> satya164: yeah, there are a couple of issues with synaptic...
[21:16] <satya164> ochosi: it makes it harder to remove packages that were automatically installed
[21:18] <pnarciso> A problem with USC is that it doesn't remove all the programs you install, it only removes a specific package, leaving a lot of others behind
[21:18] <pnarciso> I also use apt-get to uninstall programs, and not USC or synaptic
[21:18] <knome> that sounds exactly what satya164 said about synaptic
[21:19] <pnarciso> I like synaptic to look at chancelogs and versions
[21:20] <ochosi> well yeah, USC is really not for the power-user
[21:20] <ochosi> you can use aptitude instead
[21:20] <pnarciso> satya is one of the guys who designed the xubuntu style, isnt it?
[21:21] <pnarciso> is aptitude more powerfull than synpatic 
[21:21] <ochosi> yup, he did most of the gtk3 stuff this cycle
[21:21] <pnarciso> good work :)
[21:21] <knome> depends what "xubuntu style" means ;]
[21:21] <pnarciso> artwork?
[21:21] <satya164> pnarciso: thanks
[21:21] <satya164> knome: :p
[21:22] <knome> the artwork was done by me, satya164 ported the greybird theme to gtk3
[21:22] <knome> and ochosi hanged around a bit :d
[21:22] <pnarciso> congatulions to all of you then
[21:22] <pnarciso> congatulations to all of you then
[21:22] <knome> thanks. glad that you like it
[21:22] <pnarciso> I like the white more than the brown
[21:22] <satya164> thanks
[21:23] <pnarciso> it's more readable
[21:23] <satya164> yeah. agree with you. but still, people have different tastes
[21:23] <pnarciso> one thing that you missed was a nice background for the dock bar
[21:24] <satya164> pnarciso: as knome and ochosi said, I did most of the GTK3 work only
[21:25] <pnarciso> The bug in xorg is preventing the window borders, for now
[21:26] <ochosi> pnarciso: i'm adding it to the idea-bucket here now: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-appearance
[21:26] <pnarciso> Do you think xorg 1.13 will make it to 12.10 in time
[21:27] <ochosi> no clue
[21:27] <knome> pnarciso, does that fix the bug?
[21:28] <pnarciso> hey ochosi, you can also add a keyboard shortcut to enable and disable compositor. I use that now through a script, and it works very nice
[21:29] <ochosi> pnarciso: i hope by "script" you mean xfconf-query?
[21:29] <pnarciso> ochosi, yes
[21:29] <ochosi> pnarciso: we can add it to an idea list, but this one is for "appearance", kb shortcuts aren't really in that category imo
[21:30] <pnarciso> kome, it better fix, because without it, people with nvidia or ppl who use vbox don't have window borders
[21:30] <pnarciso> ochosi, ok
[21:31] <pnarciso> ochosi, I also have seen a mockup for thunar that organise the devices by category
[21:31] <pnarciso> but I guess it didn't make it
[21:31] <knome> pnarciso, we will fix the bug somehow anyway
[21:31] <ochosi> pnarciso: you mean this one? http://wiki.xfce.org/design/thunar/shortcuts-pane
[21:32] <pnarciso> yes that page
[21:32] <ochosi> yeah, well i worked on that with jannis
[21:33] <ochosi> but he couldn't fix the DND
[21:33] <ochosi> and then he got a job and relocated to .uk
[21:33] <pnarciso> dnd?
[21:33] <ochosi> so i don't see this happening any time soon
[21:33] <ochosi> drag and drop
[21:35] <pnarciso> ok, i get it, but i was a nice idea
[21:35] <ochosi> well hopefully someone will pick it all up
[21:35] <ochosi> it would've had much more features than the other filemanagers' sidebars
[21:35] <ochosi> being able to hide and reorganize stuff there
[21:35] <ochosi> but those features ultimately also broke its neck
[21:36] <pnarciso> by the way, current xubuntu 12.10 have a bug where mount drives appear twice in the desktop
[21:37] <ochosi> ah interesting
[21:37] <pnarciso> when I check the option to show mounted drives in desktop
[21:37] <ochosi> i have heard about this bug from len-dt yesterday
[21:38] <pnarciso> but it's a bug introduced post alpha 3
[21:38] <ochosi> since i'm using a vbox without usb support i can't test it much
[21:38] <pnarciso> I'm testing with a real install
[21:39] <pnarciso> and by the way, kernel 3.6 seems more stable on my rig.
[21:39] <pnarciso> 3.5 like to freeze my pc once in a while
[21:40] <pnarciso> 12.04 also had the same issue
[21:41] <ochosi> yeah, we can't do anything about the kernel unfortunately
[21:41] <ochosi> ubuntu decides all that
[21:41] <knome> well, we *could*...
[21:42] <pnarciso> are you guys being supported by canonical, or just use their distro to make your own
[21:42] <knome> financially, nope
[21:42] <knome> we are getting the infrastructure though
[21:43] <pnarciso> but are limited by their releases
[21:43] <pnarciso> not like mint for ex
[21:44] <knome> well, kind of
[21:44] <knome> i suppose we could decide not to release 12.10...
[21:44] <knome> but yes, we do release at the same time as ubuntu
[21:44] <ochosi> if wayland and gtk3 really come upon us in due time, we might have to skip a release or two
[21:45] <pnarciso> wayland for now is a mirage
[21:45] <pnarciso> until nvidia and amd start to support it
[21:45] <ochosi> not sure
[21:46] <ochosi> open drivers support it already
[21:46] <pnarciso> well, but open driver are really crappy for amd and nvidia
[21:46] <ochosi> and ubuntu is known for pushing things at times
[21:46] <pnarciso> only intel is investing
[21:46] <ochosi> depends, i mostly miss the power-management in the open driver
[21:46] <ochosi> i miss kms in the nvidia blob e.g.
[21:46] <satya164> ochosi: yeah, I have the 2 drives bug as well
[21:47] <pnarciso> well, nouveau is very unstable with my gtx680
[21:47] <ochosi> satya164: weird, someone also reported that on unity...
[21:48] <ochosi> pnarciso: if you want to know when the xorg-bug is fixed, i guess you have to monitor/subscribe this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54168
[21:48] <satya164> ochosi: didn't test on Unity, but have that bug with xfce