[11:54] <rick_h_> morning
[12:13] <rick_h_> and all the iLovers cry that things are over blown and there's nothing to fear so long as they have their apple protective blanket. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/04/hackers-release-1-million-ios-device-udids-obtained-from-fbi-laptop/
[12:14] <rick_h_> http://corte.si/posts/security/udid-leak.html ouch
[12:31] <snap-l> good morning
[12:44] <jrwren> hrm, that is scary.
[12:45] <rick_h_> yea, fail of the udid, at least people saw it coming and they were forcing apps to stop using it I think
[12:48] <jrwren> lol @ fbi butthurt
[13:12] <rick_h_> lol, love this thrashing of 'growth hacker' stuff that's been going around http://goo.gl/0uU66
[13:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: Oh FFS
[13:15] <snap-l> like brogramming, this needs to DIAF
[13:17] <brousch> The boy just started Kindergarten today. This will be fun
[13:17] <snap-l> yay
[13:19] <rick_h_> brousch: congrats!
[13:20] <rick_h_> so vote on which codemash talk I should submit. 1) Makefile from MUG but fleshed out a bit probably
[13:20] <rick_h_> 2) Lessons learned from Bookie which will almost be 2yrs old by Jan
[13:23] <brousch> What are the lessons?
[13:23] <snap-l> They're both good
[13:23] <rick_h_> that's the talk brousch :P
[13:23] <brousch> I can't vote without some idea of the lessons
[13:24] <shakes808> Good morning all. How was everyone's holiday weekend?
[13:26] <rick_h_> brousch: it'd probably be something like: Code quality, setting expectations, finding the time, and project diversity: Lessons learned from two years hacking on an open source application.
[13:31] <snap-l> lesson 1: users are whiny bitches
[13:35] <shakes808> snap-l + 1
[13:39] <brousch> I vote for "Abusing Makefiles for Fun and Profit"
[13:41] <rick_h_> brousch: cool vote stored
[13:46] <rick_h_> hmm, only 68 view of my pyohio talk, wonder if I should submit it to reddit r/python
[13:48] <rick_h_> upvotes please! http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/zc2ne/pyohio_2012_starting_your_python_project_right/
[14:07] <shakes808> http://lifehacker.com/5940197/1-million-apple-device-ids-leaked-12-million-total-stolen
[14:08] <rick_h_> shakes808: yea, I've got a serious case of the Nelson's today
[14:09] <snap-l> rick_h_: Upvoted
[14:09] <rick_h_> snap-l: ty much
[14:11] <brousch> the Nelson's?
[14:11] <snap-l> har har
[14:11]  * rick_h_ points finger and shouts "HAA! HAA!"
[14:21] <rick_h_> doh, no jcastro
[14:23] <snap-l> Yeah, he's not fully settled in
[14:24] <snap-l> Iron Maiden, Rush, Metallical
[14:24] <snap-l> Iron Maiden, Rush, Metallica
[14:24] <snap-l> Iron Maiden, Rush, Metallica
[14:24] <snap-l> Iron Maiden, Rush, Metallica
[14:24] <snap-l> hmm
[14:24] <brousch> Calm down d00d
[14:24] <snap-l> Thought that would bring jcastro in here
[14:25] <brousch> Damnit. I cannot add a link to my blog post on further instructions to the YouTube video
[14:25] <brousch> Fuck spammers
[14:26] <rick_h_> +1
[14:34] <shakes808> rick_h_: the Nelsons? What is that?
[14:34] <rick_h_> shakes808: simpsons
[14:34] <shakes808> lol alright. That is the Nelson's that I was thinking about.
[14:34] <shakes808> lol
[14:35] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78
[14:35] <rick_h_> just picture me doing that at the apple/fbi stories coming out today
[14:35] <shakes808> Youtube is blocked here. But I can imagine that it is him doing hit "HA HA" and pointing at Apple and FBI lol
[15:02] <jcastro> man, been here two days and it's already raining
[15:02] <rick_h_> hah, thankfully
[15:02] <rick_h_> rain == less lawn watering I need to do
[15:02] <rick_h_> and clean my car from the travel back from up noth
[15:03] <rick_h_> jcastro: did you see the markdown chrome app? Has preview and such.
[15:03] <rick_h_> http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/27/3271095/textdown-chrome-markdown-web-app
[15:04] <snap-l> jcastro: wb
[15:04] <snap-l> I take credit for my incantations. ;)
[15:04] <snap-l> Iron Maiden, Rush, Metallica
[15:05] <snap-l> Also, my Squeezebox article is in the latest Linux Journal (Sept. issue)
[15:07] <brousch> Nice
[15:08] <brousch> Damn. I got some bad PDFs. I forgot how much RAM I need to fix these things
[15:09] <brousch> I hit 4GB of swap before the process killed
[15:26] <rick_h_> snap-l: congrats on the article
[15:27] <rick_h_> ugh, I hear all this tearing and ripping as the flooring guy tears up the carpet
[15:27] <rick_h_> it makes me cringe down here
[15:28] <brousch> I fail as a father. I forgot to send lunch money
[15:28] <brousch> Luckily they have me covered for the first 2 days
[15:28] <snap-l> rick_h_: Thank you. :)
[15:29] <rick_h_> brousch: hah, need to get that checklist
[15:30] <brousch> His backpack this morning was so heavy he couldn't carry it
[15:31] <rick_h_> awesome
[15:31] <brousch> Ah, they have a website where I can top-up his lunch funds. This is nice
[15:34] <brousch> ONly $2 for lunch. I'm going to eat there
[15:36] <rick_h_> brousch: how old is your guy?
[15:36] <jrwren> rick_h_: a downvote??? wtf, who would downvote that?
[15:36] <rick_h_> jrwren: haters gonna hate :P
[15:37] <jrwren> TextDown is rather silly IMO... pagedown lets anyone write that. https://code.google.com/p/pagedown/wiki/PageDown
[15:37] <rick_h_> yea, the drag/drop and such for the local files is cool though which would be challenging I think iwth a web app
[15:38] <brousch> rick_h_: 4 now. 5 in November. 5 in December is our Kindergarten cutoff
[15:38] <rick_h_> brousch: ok, looking at my school system they've got kindergarten and then 'early 5's kindergarten'
[15:39] <rick_h_> so was wondering if you kid was 5 or 6
[15:39] <brousch> Yeah, each district has different things. Ours just has full day K at that cutoff
[15:39] <rick_h_> ugh, my son's Dec 28th birthday means he'll basically be the oldest kid in class
[15:39] <jrwren> so yours did first day of K?
[15:39] <brousch> yeah
[15:39] <rick_h_> their early 5 program has a dec 1st cutoff
[15:39] <jrwren> congrats, mine too
[15:39] <rick_h_> man, jrwren is the 4th person I know with a kid in K today
[15:40] <brousch> Heh. 2007 was a good year. Top of the bubble, hopes soaring for everyone
[15:40] <rick_h_> hah
[15:41] <jrwren> yeah, lots of friend have kids in K today.
[15:41] <rick_h_> jealous!
[15:41] <shakes808> snap-l: That is awesome. I will look for it  :D
[15:41] <jrwren> brousch: speak for yourself. 2006 was a shit year, where i got drunk for forgot to wear a rubber, which lead to a 2007 year of wtf am I getting myself into.
[15:42] <brousch> jrwren: I thought you had like 5 kids
[15:42] <rick_h_> lmao, ok didn't see that coming
[15:42] <jrwren> brousch: lol, no.
[15:42] <jrwren> brousch: i don't make the same mistake twice.
[15:42] <jrwren> one and only one child.
[15:43] <brousch> I wonder how I got that impression
[15:43] <jrwren> maybe I use her as my excuse to not participate in things often?
[15:45] <brousch> I don't know
[15:47] <brousch> Woohoo, lunch deposit approved and logged. George will have lunch today
[15:47] <snap-l> We are living in the future.
[15:48] <brousch> indeed
[15:48] <snap-l> and the company that brought it to us: AT&T.
[15:48] <snap-l> (*snicker*)
[15:49] <jrwren> school lunch?
[15:49] <jrwren> you are letting your child eat that poison?
[15:49] <brousch> Yep
[15:50] <brousch> I think the website logs what they ate too
[16:01] <jrwren> really???
[16:02] <jrwren> that is facinating.
[16:04] <brousch> To be precise, I expect it logs what they chose, not what they ate. They can swap food, throw it away, etc
[16:05] <snap-l> every bit of food is RFID encoded
[16:05] <brousch> Nice, then I can track it as it's pooped out too
[16:12] <greg-g> seriously? they track what you eat now?
[16:15] <brousch> I think so
[16:16] <brousch> And the teachers are supposed to update some other website with what they did every day
[16:16] <greg-g> wow, sounds annoying for the teachers
[16:16] <greg-g> so much for parents having to talk with their kids
[16:16] <greg-g> oh, and get off my lawn
[16:17] <brousch> Yeah, seems crazy to me
[16:18] <rick_h_> greg-g: heh, more ammunition to catch things early
[16:18] <greg-g> the quantified child
[16:18] <rick_h_> I know with my brother he'd be weeks behind in homework not turned in before a warning slip would go out to my aunt
[16:18] <rick_h_> I guess I can see both ways, I'm all for more info available and do what you will with it
[16:21] <greg-g> as though I should talk, my main job right now is making educational resources more like linked data
[16:22] <greg-g> Na·zi [ˈnɑːtsɪ] n. 1. Someone who works on something for free for all to share, but doesn't do as i say. 2. National-Socialist
[16:22] <greg-g> https://twitter.com/hbons/status/243017973240053760
[16:40] <brousch> greg-g++ "the quantified child" I like that
[16:40] <brousch> The helicopter parents are driving this insanity
[16:45] <greg-g> yeppers
[16:50] <snap-l> I'd like to thank my generation for fucking things up.
[16:55] <rick_h_> hah
[16:55] <jrwren> i blame the boomers.
[17:00]  * greg-g nods
[17:00] <greg-g> the boomers did so much wrong with raising their kids
[17:00] <greg-g> Dr. Spock wasn't right, ya'll. It was a major departure from everything we've been doing until then.
[17:00] <rick_h_> I thought letting the schools do the raising was the problem :P
[17:00] <greg-g> that too
[17:00] <greg-g> :)
[17:01] <rick_h_> sorry, but after playing part time dad to my (now 21yr old) brother and coming up on 3 of my own...if there's a magic book out there let me know because this stuff doesn't seem to be standard issue
[17:03] <jrwren> its the parents that practice attachment parenting's fault
[17:03]  * rick_h_ relates too close to the helicoptoer stuff I guess
[17:03] <jrwren> 3 of your own???
[17:03] <jrwren> you have 2?!?!?
[17:03] <jrwren> and a 3rd on way???
[17:03] <rick_h_> huh?
[17:04] <rick_h_> own kid is coming up on 3yr old :P
[17:04] <jrwren> ah.
[17:04] <jrwren> right.
[17:04] <brousch> See, this is how I get the wrong information :P
[17:05] <greg-g> heh
[17:06] <jrwren> i couldn't help myself greg-g :)
[17:07] <greg-g> jrwren: I figured :P
[17:07]  * greg-g is an unashamed AP practitioner
[17:08] <brousch> What's that?
[17:08] <rick_h_> heh, don't know much on that side tbh, but my wife did tell me about an awesome 4yr breast feeding AP experience she ran into that gave me the shudders
[17:09] <brousch> "there are no conclusive empirical efficacy studies on Sears attachment parenting."
[17:11] <greg-g> nor any other
[17:11] <greg-g> but whatever moving on :)
[17:11] <rick_h_> religion, politics, and parenting :)
[17:11] <greg-g> yeppers :)
[17:11] <greg-g> personal choices are personal
[17:12] <rick_h_> widox: hey, keyboard report. How's it going?
[17:15] <brousch> Oh man, I skipped the NMRA show this year and missed this http://www.flickr.com/photos/decojim/
[17:15] <jrwren> now see... i'm anti-AP (not strongly) and yet i'm very pro long term breast feeding.
[17:16] <jrwren> I don't see why cow milk is OK, but human milk is somehow strange or gross.
[17:16] <widox> rick_h_: good. used the blues last week; started using the browns today
[17:16] <rick_h_> jrwren: for me it's more the size/teeth and such that causes the shudder
[17:16] <rick_h_> jrwren: my son can't tickle gently and the idea of the other thing just has me crossing my arms to protect myself :P
[17:17] <rick_h_> widox: cool
[17:18] <widox> rick_h_: wife was not excited about the noise from the blues :)
[17:18] <rick_h_> widox: yea, I figured might be the case. If I didn't have my own office I bet I'd have a backup wife-friendly keyboard
[17:18] <brousch> Here ya go http://www.michlug.org/
[17:19] <rick_h_> brousch: ok, that's awesome
[17:19] <widox> rick_h_: yeah... curious if that new guy will bring in his Filco tomorrow
[17:19] <rick_h_> shakes808: make sure your co-workers comes back to CHC with his filco please :)
[17:20] <rick_h_> poor guy, comes to one meeting and we're all "bring us your hardware!"
[17:20] <widox> lego people amaze me
[17:39] <snap-l> I have a big problem with parents relying on schools for everything for their kids
[17:39] <snap-l> Also, corporal punishment is A+
[17:39] <snap-l> Not abuse, but letting the child know who is in charge
[17:40] <brousch> I have never had to strike my child. Putting him in the corner is as devastating to him as a waterboarding
[17:40] <snap-l> And each child is different
[17:40] <brousch> But I suspect he is atypical
[17:41] <snap-l> That's the major thing
[18:05] <jrwren> i gave up on corporal punishment, there may be times it works, but it certainly wasn't working.
[18:05] <jrwren> it really does hurt me more than it hurts her.
[18:07] <rick_h_> die zope...and stupid OOP based html form generation
[18:08] <brousch> How should forms be generated?
[18:09] <rick_h_> via html, maybe a single function that does some template-fu
[18:09] <rick_h_> I'm all for creating widgets, but it doesn't need to be this pita
[18:10] <rick_h_> and stacked 50 layers deep
[18:10] <brousch> Is there a form module that does it that way?
[18:12] <rick_h_> well there's a widget library
[18:12] <rick_h_> and then widgets are tied into View objects and there's a ton of interaction/setup with it all that just makes it a ton more compliated than it feels like it needs to be
[18:13] <rick_h_> but that's zope, why keep it simple when you can bring 10 interfaces to bear on the problem
[18:18] <snap-l> zope on a rope
[18:20] <rick_h_> hah
[18:20] <Blazeix> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1901
[18:27] <rick_h_> man youtube comments are stupid as can be
[18:27] <rick_h_> "Error: please try again"
[18:28] <rick_h_> oh, doesn't like the url, fine. Remove the url, "Post"
[18:28] <rick_h_> "Error: please try again"
[18:28] <rick_h_> hmmm, wtf...let me change the content I guess it doesn't like something.
[18:28] <jrwren> snap-l: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5QmcM5YhU
[18:28] <rick_h_> "Error: please try again"
[18:28] <rick_h_> finally reload the page and see "Comment removed: author name withheld"
[18:28] <rick_h_> well then why can't it just say that ugh
[18:33] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I need to get some more Battlecross
[18:40] <jrwren> snap-l: a guy at work here linked me to that. he says they are his son and/or his sons friends.
[18:48] <greg-g> jrwren: http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/album/pretty-eight-machine
[18:54] <jrwren> greg-g: yeah, i snagged it. its is only OK.
[18:54] <jrwren> definitely fun at first, but some of the covers are pretty bad.
[18:54] <jrwren> when listening in my car, i found myself wanting to turn it off.
[18:56] <greg-g> I bet in the car, yeah
[19:27] <snap-l> jrwren: Very cool. They've been making a real splash in the metal world
[19:28] <rick_h_> well, the tearing out of the carpet seems to be done becuase the saw is kicking on now, wheee
[19:32] <greg-g> rick_h_: not a work from coffeeshop day?
[19:34] <greg-g> jrwren: I have to admit, I'm listening to it all and liking it for work background music
[19:39] <rick_h_> greg-g: no, I don't like having people in my house without me here
[19:39] <greg-g> fair 'nough
[20:22] <brousch> "School was great!"
[20:24] <rick_h_> awesome!
[20:26] <jrwren> i can't wait to go home and hear all about it.
[20:27] <rick_h_> sigh, you can't judge by the tools a person uses right?
[20:28] <brousch> Wrong
[20:29] <brousch> Judge all you want based on whatever you want. This is still America!
[20:33] <greg-g> brousch: then how is he wrong if he doesn't?
[20:36] <brousch> I am judging him for his non-judgmental attitude
[20:38] <greg-g> luckily, judging is non-translative
[20:38] <greg-g> (or whatever that mathematical property is)
[20:45] <jrwren> trasitive?
[20:45] <jrwren> judgy mc judgement pants can go judge a fastest slug contest
[20:46] <jrwren> i'll snap my finger while yelling "You don't know me!"
[20:46] <greg-g> transitive, yep
[20:53] <rick_h_> speaking of legos today http://goo.gl/4r77H
[21:01] <jrwren> wow, chrome is only 4yo.
[21:02] <jrwren> that is AMAZING!