| stochastic | smartboyhw, you were trying to grab my attention a little while ago, what's up? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| ailo | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes | 00:41 |
| knome | uh | 00:42 |
| ailo | knome: relax. I'm not suggesting we change to Gnome | 00:44 |
| ailo | ;) | 00:44 |
| knome | i'm not worried about that ;) | 00:44 |
| knome | it's just i think there are enough remixes already | 00:45 |
| knome | or whatever their names | 00:45 |
| ailo | Would be strange not to have a gnome derivative? | 00:48 |
| ailo | Which I assume this is to be | 00:48 |
| knome | hmm, no... :P | 00:48 |
| knome | going to bed now | 01:03 |
| knome | good night! | 01:03 |
| ailo | Good night | 01:09 |
| ailo | I actually just woke up | 01:09 |
| ailo | But a bit too early to say good morning | 01:09 |
| len-1210 | hmm, our ISO installs again. nautilus goes by its own name and has a menu bar again. | 03:19 |
| ailo | len-1210: Yea, they decided to go back to the older version for now | 03:21 |
| ailo | Of nautilus | 03:21 |
| holstein | yeah, i think we should think about bailing on it | 03:21 |
| holstein | going with thunar or whatever | 03:22 |
| holstein | for me, keeping nautilus was a way to be more "gnome2" like | 03:22 |
| ailo | Might be smart to skip any non-xfce apps all together | 03:22 |
| holstein | the xubuntu one is nice | 03:23 |
| holstein | thunar, right? | 03:23 |
| ailo | It's the xfce file manager | 03:23 |
| holstein | yeah... thats what i meant | 03:23 |
| ailo | Practically the same thing | 03:23 |
| ailo | I mean, as nautilus | 03:23 |
| holstein | there are some things that are missing, but nautilus is removing those features | 03:24 |
| len-1210 | The problem with double icons for removable devices is only in the live session | 03:24 |
| ailo | len-1210: Did you add the gnome-system-monitor already? | 03:24 |
| ailo | holstein: Like what? | 03:24 |
| len-1210 | yes | 03:24 |
| holstein | ailo: i forget.. someone in xubuntu was complaining and i looked it up | 03:24 |
| holstein | that "join network" menu was one | 03:25 |
| len-1210 | thunar is missing two things I need: search and sftp: | 03:25 |
| holstein | something else key though... something with the view i though | 03:25 |
| holstein | maybe it was search | 03:25 |
| ailo | holstein: They dropped paned view | 03:25 |
| holstein | whatever it was, it was valid | 03:25 |
| ailo | holstein: But, don't think there was anything else. You meant "connect to network" | 03:26 |
| ailo | The biggest change is just putting the whole menu inside one button | 03:26 |
| holstein | ailo: yeah, i really missed that "connect to network" thing | 03:26 |
| len-1210 | Nautilus allows using directories on other systems | 03:27 |
| len-1210 | It is really nice for backup | 03:27 |
| ailo | "connect to server", was what I meant | 03:27 |
| holstein | len-1210: i think these are things that xubuntu would be interested in having | 03:27 |
| holstein | ailo: whatever its called.. i think its slick | 03:28 |
| len-1210 | thunar can do the sftp with outside help | 03:28 |
| holstein | len-1210: gigolo? | 03:28 |
| len-1210 | search was a separate app | 03:28 |
| ailo | holstein: Nautilus was not dropping the "connect to server" feautre. AFAIK, only paned view | 03:28 |
| ailo | The rest is just cosmetics | 03:28 |
| holstein | ailo: yeah, it was folks missing that in thunar | 03:28 |
| len-1210 | holstein, yes, but with some extra package we don't have | 03:29 |
| holstein | someone wanting nautilus running in xubuntu | 03:29 |
| ailo | They can always install it if they want | 03:29 |
| holstein | len-1210: i was wondering if its something that would be appreciated upstream | 03:29 |
| len-1210 | I have had some problems with thunar dying on me | 03:29 |
| ailo | Also, there are other applications for mounting filesystems. I usually use sshfs using the terminal | 03:29 |
| holstein | im using thunar 1.0.2 | 03:30 |
| holstein | ailo: sshfs is what gigolo would be doing right? | 03:30 |
| holstein | kind of a gui for that and other things? | 03:30 |
| len-1210 | Ya | 03:30 |
| holstein | after i found gigolo, i didnt "need" nautilus anymore | 03:31 |
| holstein | that was the last thing i just didnt understand how to replace with my skill level | 03:31 |
| ailo | So far Gnome hasn't dropped any features, other than cosmetic, AFAIK. Only been adding them | 03:32 |
| ailo | Some gui controls are changing, becoming more minimalistixc | 03:32 |
| holstein | nothing wrong with that | 03:32 |
| holstein | im suprised the ubuntu-gnome edition isnt bigger already | 03:33 |
| holstein | ailo: http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/home-1 | 03:33 |
| len-1210 | the one thing missing was an about box.... so I could find out what the program was called | 03:33 |
| holstein | i thought you might want to get in on that | 03:33 |
| ailo | I think it's a general misconception of Gnome3, since it's not as easy to customize at first glance | 03:33 |
| ailo | holstein: Ubuntu is getting a Gnome derivative soon | 03:34 |
| ailo | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes | 03:34 |
| ailo | Based on Gnome 3.6 | 03:34 |
| holstein | i thought that was it | 03:34 |
| holstein | i saw "them" asking about how to set up an irc channel | 03:35 |
| holstein | i just thought it would have been right when the switch to unity happened | 03:35 |
| ailo | Ah, didn't read more closely | 03:35 |
| len-1210 | there have been changes to the theme too | 03:36 |
| ailo | Gnome3 would have needed more developers working on customization. The initial config is a bit crude | 03:36 |
| len-1210 | the window with focus now has a blue top bar | 03:36 |
| len-1210 | and most other highlights are blue too | 03:36 |
| holstein | well, the initial unity at that time was on par i thought | 03:37 |
| holstein | i think now its too little too late | 03:37 |
| holstein | folks have either jumped to mint, or like unity | 03:38 |
| holstein | not that i dont want to try it out, and support it | 03:38 |
| ailo | Don't think it matters. If Gnome3, or rather Gnome4, which is not that far away, will rock a bit more, I think it will automatically create interest | 03:38 |
| ailo | Problem is all the veteran nix people, who don't like to leave the 90's | 03:39 |
| holstein | i think for some more tech-y folk | 03:39 |
| holstein | i was thinking the ubuntu community though.. they are likely using unity now, and the newcomers as well | 03:39 |
| holstein | we'll see.. i dont think gnome3 is bad either | 03:39 |
| holstein | i like it and unity just fine now that they have "had time to bake" | 03:39 |
| holstein | the time was unfortunate i think... and neither one are really anything im interested in running on my desktop full time i dont think | 03:40 |
| len-1210 | I guess I am one of the old guys ;) | 03:40 |
| holstein | len-1210: hehe! | 03:40 |
| len-1210 | I was looking at fvwm again and thinking how nice it was | 03:41 |
| ailo | I've been running Gnome3 for the past 6 months, and have no complaints | 03:41 |
| ailo | But I can see why people don't see the benefits | 03:41 |
| ailo | It does take a few moments to get into new features too | 03:41 |
| len-1210 | I have two problems with unity... both speed things | 03:42 |
| len-1210 | it takes a long time to change desktops (1 to 3 or what ever) | 03:42 |
| len-1210 | it takes a long time to start any app not on the left bar | 03:43 |
| ailo | I felt Unity was slow too | 03:43 |
| holstein | it was... its faster now.. still pokey in a couple spots | 03:43 |
| len-1210 | these are not a problem for many people | 03:43 |
| holstein | its the general layout of both that i just dont need | 03:44 |
| len-1210 | I was talking as of 12.04 | 03:44 |
| len-1210 | My wife has it and it is fine fore her, she uses three app | 03:44 |
| len-1210 | one at a time | 03:45 |
| ailo | Both Unity and Gnome3 are trying to integrate the web into the desktop, but so far, I think both are not doing the best job at it | 03:45 |
| len-1210 | our ISO is still missing two metas | 03:45 |
| ailo | Need to get moving. Taking a bus to a neighbour city today. Will probably start a "network technician" education there shortly | 03:46 |
| ailo | Later guys | 03:46 |
| len-1210 | G'luck | 03:46 |
| holstein | ailo: o/ | 03:47 |
| len-dt | micahg, no need to answer just now. I am wondering if the new metas will make it for this cycle or should I put the apps back into the graphics meta for now? And if so, would it hurt to leave the apps in both places... | 04:15 |
| len-dt | micahg, I forgot to add. ubuntustudio-default-settings has two bug fixes (again) There is a third to do, but I am waiting for information. | 04:22 |
| micahg | len-dt: ok, unless the fixes are critical for beta 1, I'll upload after that, as for the metas, just ask cjwatson if he can do it after beta 1, I seem to be missing something WRT the metas somehow | 04:23 |
| len-dt | micahg, not critical | 04:23 |
| len-dt | Our ISO seems to install. | 04:24 |
| len-dt | ailo, beta 1 fails. It does not install. Did we set device auto mounting on purpose or can we deselect it? | 07:01 |
| len-dt | or can we set it up different in live from install? | 07:06 |
| smartboyhw | Hello all | 08:12 |
| smartboyhw | ailo, len-dt: What are your comments on Ubuntu GNOME remix? Also I didn't test the build, my download speed is bad:( | 08:17 |
| smartboyhw | I mean the Beta 1:) | 08:19 |
| smartboyhw | ailo: do you know if there is a Quantal lowlatency kernel git like in your email? | 12:31 |
| len-dt | smartboyhw, beta 1 does not install right. As soon as partman formats the partition our de mounts it then ubiquity gets upset and says it won't install to a mounted partition. | 13:32 |
| len-dt | I was able to work around that though | 13:33 |
| smartboyhw | OK, I can't test it, strangely cdimage has a very poor internet connection | 13:33 |
| scott-work | hi len-dt, did you have have a good camping trip? | 13:38 |
| len-dt | Aye | 13:38 |
| len-dt | scott-work, how are you? | 13:39 |
| scott-work | ailo: maybe your email (and leanne's poke) might help move andy forward on the procedures | 13:39 |
| scott-work | len-dt: i believe i'm doing okay | 13:39 |
| smartboyhw | Hi scott-work | 13:39 |
| len-dt | scott-work, our ISO doesn't install without fidling | 13:39 |
| scott-work | hello smartboyhw | 13:39 |
| scott-work | "fidling"? hmmmm, that's a little concerning, no? | 13:40 |
| len-dt | Very. | 13:40 |
| smartboyhw | scott-work: I wonder: Can I be mod of the Ubuntu Studio section of Ubuntu Forums? | 13:40 |
| len-dt | if doing the "use whole disk" install it fails | 13:40 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: i don't have control of that, i'm not actually sure who does really. sto.chastic is a mod though, you might ping him | 13:40 |
| smartboyhw | Oh OK, since jussi is not helping out now, and he (or she) told me to ask you | 13:41 |
| scott-work | len-dt: is that something vanilla is experiencing as well or just localized to ubuntu studio | 13:41 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: there is also a "ubuntu forums council", i believe, that might have the authority to set mods | 13:42 |
| len-dt | The DE auto mounts the newly created partition and ubiquity won't install on it | 13:42 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: but you can always google search how to be a mod in ubuntu forums | 13:42 |
| smartboyhw | Sure, but then I think I need your approval | 13:42 |
| len-dt | So if we set no auto mount it should fix it. | 13:42 |
| len-dt | however, we had automount set last rel and no problem | 13:43 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: i think jussi.'s default answer these days is "see Scott" for everything. even the things i don't do or know about :P | 13:43 |
| smartboyhw | ;P | 13:43 |
| smartboyhw | So then how? I don't even seee stochastic on the forums these days | 13:43 |
| scott-work | len-dt: i wonder if something changed elsewhere that might be affecting this | 13:43 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: you can send sto.chastic an email from his launchpad account | 13:43 |
| smartboyhw | I'm answering a few questions at least | 13:43 |
| scott-work | len-dt: meaning, it worked last release, vanilla made a change but also changed the automount setting, and now we are having issues | 13:44 |
| len-dt | xfce4.10/thunar may be more agressive about looking for new partitions to mount or ubiquity may not be fast enough grabbing it. | 13:44 |
| scott-work | len-dt: perhaps asking colin might shed some light or at least get a point of contact for who might know about it | 13:44 |
| len-dt | I will be talking to him anyway so I will ask. does he hang out on an irc channel ? which one should I look at? | 13:45 |
| len-dt | scott-work, I need to help my wife out the door to school back in a bit. | 13:46 |
| smartboyhw | Oh ok | 13:46 |
| scott-work | len-dt: i would say #ubuntu-devel is the most active that i have seen | 13:46 |
| stochastic | hi smartboyhw | 13:49 |
| smartboyhw | Hi stochastic | 13:49 |
| smartboyhw | I wanna be mod at the Ubuntu Studio section of Ubuntu Forums, | 13:49 |
| falktx | smartboyhw: afaik you need to be very active within that forum section first | 13:50 |
| smartboyhw | Sure, I'm getting to it:) | 13:50 |
| * falktx says 'hi all'! | 13:50 | |
| smartboyhw | I did make some post | 13:50 |
| smartboyhw | Oh sure here comes falktx who wants to topple scott-work's throne:( | 13:50 |
| stochastic | yes, that's certainly true, very active. I think I was at around 2000+ posts before I was given moderator status there | 13:51 |
| smartboyhw | Wow, ok | 13:51 |
| stochastic | the Ubuntu Studio section is the only section (or was at the time) where there was other moderators than the standard forum moderators | 13:51 |
| smartboyhw | Not now | 13:51 |
| stochastic | and it's a process that requires the Ubuntuforums staff's approval, not really the Ubuntu Studio team's approval | 13:52 |
| stochastic | jussi was also a moderator there, not sure if he's still very active there - I know my work there has died off significantly | 13:52 |
| smartboyhw | Garoff | 13:53 |
| stochastic | is there any particular reason why you need moderator status in that forum? | 13:54 |
| smartboyhw | Since you guys have not been active there, and I wanna help:) | 13:54 |
| smartboyhw | Er, do I get a reply? | 13:58 |
| smartboyhw | ...stochastic, len-dt, scott-work: Then will tmr's image have a clean build? | 14:00 |
| len-dt | clean? | 14:01 |
| smartboyhw | I mean no bugs | 14:01 |
| len-dt | We will have bugs till after beta one. we are missing most of the photo and publishing applications | 14:02 |
| smartboyhw | Yep, but then can we ensure we can actually install? | 14:03 |
| len-dt | A bit early to tell | 14:03 |
| smartboyhw | Well, two days remaining | 14:03 |
| len-dt | Scool starts today for one of my sons... I have other things to do too | 14:04 |
| jussi | no bugs is an unattainable attribute... (the cake is a lie) | 14:05 |
| len-dt | being able to install is pretty big | 14:06 |
| smartboyhw | HAHAHA | 14:07 |
| smartboyhw | Well I think being able to install is the prerequisite | 14:08 |
| len-dt | scott-work, I have in the past had thunar try to mount fresh partitions too. It seems to be a race thing where it depends on how fast ubiquity mounts the partition. | 14:15 |
| len-dt | Most of the time it was ok. I suspect changes in ubiquity have made it a bit slower at mounting things. | 14:15 |
| len-dt | Is the automount setting a big thing? it may be best to just turn it off by default. | 14:16 |
| len-dt | one could argue that having something mount itself in the middle of audio work is not something we want anyway. | 14:17 |
| len-dt | Or... can we have it turned off in live and on after install? | 14:17 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: On the last question, I think we should give full potential and features of the OS to the guys who just wanna try it. | 14:30 |
| scott-work | hi falktx :) | 14:55 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt is not answering:( | 14:55 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: i believe we (len really) is still triaging the problem | 14:56 |
| smartboyhw | scott-work: Len is our golden boy isn't he?:) | 14:56 |
| scott-work | to the image (or clean build) | 14:56 |
| scott-work | len-dt: are we including thunar still on the image? i seem to recall that we were moving completely to nautilus, is that still the goal? | 14:57 |
| scott-work | smartboyhw: "On the last question, I think we should give full potential and features of the OS to the guys who just wanna try it." i'm not i understand what point you are trying to make | 14:58 |
| smartboyhw | Well I mean that we should not just omit a feature in live and enable it after install | 14:59 |
| len-dt | scott-work, smartboyhw it would not omit it, just change the setting, however the ubiquity devs want to fix ubiquity. So I will let them. It seems thunar keeps moving where its config is kept from release to release. | 15:03 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: OK YEAH! | 15:03 |
| shnatsel | ubiquity talk? | 15:03 |
| shnatsel | !logs | 15:03 |
| ubottu | Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ | 15:03 |
| len-dt | cj watson would like to have things so that if any flavour decides to enable automount it will still install. | 15:05 |
| smartboyhw | Looking at it now | 15:05 |
| shnatsel | AFAIK it can be disabled in one of Ubiquity's functions | 15:05 |
| smartboyhw | OK | 15:06 |
| shnatsel | there's a dedicated setting for locking the desktop during installation - disabling user switching, etc etc | 15:06 |
| shnatsel | but I'm not entirely sure when the function is called | 15:06 |
| shnatsel | you can disable the automount in ubiquity_dm binary but it's not clear how to bring it back | 15:06 |
| shnatsel | at least I haven't figured out how to revert a similar change when it's done from ubiquity_dm | 15:07 |
| shnatsel | if you do, please tell me | 15:07 |
| shnatsel | the locking funtion I've been talking about is lockdown_environment(self) in ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py | 15:09 |
| holstein | smartboyhw: o/ | 15:10 |
| smartboyhw | \o holstein | 15:11 |
| smartboyhw | !ubuntustudio-dev is <alias> ubuntustudio-devel | 15:38 |
| scott-work | len-dt: would you be able to compile a loose list of things changed recently that we can ask testers to confirm? | 16:41 |
| scott-work | len-dt: what i am thinking is basing this off of the completed items in the blueprints and noting either in email or in the release notes (started by skaet) for the milestone images | 16:42 |
| scott-work | this would also afford us a list for the final release notes when released | 16:42 |
| scott-work | and by the way len-dt, thank you VERY MUCH for your efforts in this cycle in particular, we certainly would not have made nearly the same progress without your efforts | 16:43 |
| len-dt | scott-work, sorry zoned out a bit. watching -release to see if ubiquity is going to get fixed or I should make a change to -settings so we can at least install... | 16:49 |
| len-dt | scott-work, -default-settings has been changed to no automounting of removable storage devices. | 17:17 |
| len-dt | This will allow our ISO to install. The user can set auto mount from settings once they install. | 17:17 |
| scott-work | len-dt: that sounds like a good, prudent plan | 17:18 |
| scott-work | at least we can get testing done currently | 17:18 |
| len-dt | scott-work, I have wondered in the past if it is a good idea to have something automount while recording... | 17:18 |
| * len-dt thinks pluggin something in while recording is not smart | 17:19 | |
| scott-work | hehe, you are probably right ;) | 17:19 |
| len-dt | Ok, it's in. Looks like it made it before respin. | 17:28 |
| scott-work | len-dt: sweet! who uploaded it for you to the repos? | 18:17 |
| scott-work | oh. i see the bug report, looks like colin did | 18:17 |
| scott-work | len-dt: would the high resolution timer adjustment help ralf with MIDI jitter? | 18:19 |
| len-dt | scott-work, I don't know. I have yet to be able to reproduce any problems I have had. | 18:30 |
| len-dt | I would think Ralph would have tried it though. In any case Ralph does not use USB MIDI ports, he has something more stable either PCI or FW | 18:31 |
| ailo | scott-work: Yea, seems like the ball is rolling now | 19:25 |
| ailo | len-dt: I didn't know about the auto mount part. I'm pretty oblivious to what happens during installation, from a non user perspective. | 19:28 |
| ailo | I really have a nack to make a mess on mail lists | 19:32 |
| ailo | or, rather, knack for making.. | 19:32 |
| len-dt | ailo, auto mount is now off by default. | 19:33 |
| ailo | len-dt: The disk can't be mounted while partitioning, right? But, the installer should know this, no? | 19:34 |
| ailo | I suppose this only happens if installing from desktop, with auto mount on? | 19:35 |
| ailo | And what if you manually mount the disk, and the install? | 19:35 |
| len-dt | At some point ubiquity will work with automount enabled. But disabled is, in my mind better anyway as it uses thunar and everything else uses nauilus | 19:35 |
| ailo | Only usb devices are usually auto mounted, from my experience | 19:36 |
| len-dt | If you manually mount, ubiquity will ask to dismount and then it can continue. With auto mount it goes in circles | 19:36 |
| ailo | Weird | 19:36 |
| ailo | len-dt: But, then the auto mount is mounting in a different way, right? | 19:37 |
| len-dt | It seems anyting not mounted by default is thought of as removable | 19:37 |
| len-dt | different mountpoint | 19:37 |
| len-dt | xfce4.10 moves the file where thunar keeps it's configs | 19:37 |
| len-dt | this breaks ubiquity | 19:38 |
| len-dt | http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/ubuntu/2008-04-12-desktop-automount-pain.html | 19:38 |
| len-dt | ailo, see the link for more info | 19:38 |
| ailo | I see | 19:39 |
| ailo | Well, I'm going to bed. Hopefully I passed the test today, and am able to start studying for different certificates soon | 19:41 |
| ailo | Individual study pace, and freedom of choice what certificates are concerned, paid by the government | 19:41 |
| ailo | I'm going Linux as much as possible, of course | 19:41 |
| ailo | The test was a bit funny. The computer part was mostly about msdos | 19:41 |
| ailo | Like a bad joke | 19:42 |
| ailo | Anyway, gn | 19:42 |
| === TheMaster is now known as Hypnotoad | ||
| smartboyhw | len-dt: Good morning | 23:32 |
| len-dt | aaaalllllrrrrreeeaaadddyyyy????? | 23:35 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: Come on it's 7:35 AM. How is the ubiquity going for Beta 1? | 23:35 |
| smartboyhw | At least in here:) | 23:36 |
| len-dt | If we get a respin it should be okish | 23:37 |
| smartboyhw | :) | 23:37 |
| len-dt | probably will install from boot ok but not from live session till the respin | 23:37 |
| smartboyhw | OK | 23:37 |
| len-dt | still missing two metas, but we are waiting till after beta1 to fix that. | 23:38 |
| smartboyhw | Anyway gotcha go to school now:) | 23:38 |
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