[00:03] smartboyhw, you were trying to grab my attention a little while ago, what's up? [00:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes [00:42] uh [00:44] knome: relax. I'm not suggesting we change to Gnome [00:44] ;) [00:44] i'm not worried about that ;) [00:45] it's just i think there are enough remixes already [00:45] or whatever their names [00:48] Would be strange not to have a gnome derivative? [00:48] Which I assume this is to be [00:48] hmm, no... :P [01:03] going to bed now [01:03] good night! [01:09] Good night [01:09] I actually just woke up [01:09] But a bit too early to say good morning [03:19] hmm, our ISO installs again. nautilus goes by its own name and has a menu bar again. [03:21] len-1210: Yea, they decided to go back to the older version for now [03:21] Of nautilus [03:21] yeah, i think we should think about bailing on it [03:22] going with thunar or whatever [03:22] for me, keeping nautilus was a way to be more "gnome2" like [03:22] Might be smart to skip any non-xfce apps all together [03:23] the xubuntu one is nice [03:23] thunar, right? [03:23] It's the xfce file manager [03:23] yeah... thats what i meant [03:23] Practically the same thing [03:23] I mean, as nautilus [03:24] there are some things that are missing, but nautilus is removing those features [03:24] The problem with double icons for removable devices is only in the live session [03:24] len-1210: Did you add the gnome-system-monitor already? [03:24] holstein: Like what? [03:24] yes [03:24] ailo: i forget.. someone in xubuntu was complaining and i looked it up [03:25] that "join network" menu was one [03:25] thunar is missing two things I need: search and sftp: [03:25] something else key though... something with the view i though [03:25] maybe it was search [03:25] holstein: They dropped paned view [03:25] whatever it was, it was valid [03:26] holstein: But, don't think there was anything else. You meant "connect to network" [03:26] The biggest change is just putting the whole menu inside one button [03:26] ailo: yeah, i really missed that "connect to network" thing [03:27] Nautilus allows using directories on other systems [03:27] It is really nice for backup [03:27] "connect to server", was what I meant [03:27] len-1210: i think these are things that xubuntu would be interested in having [03:28] ailo: whatever its called.. i think its slick [03:28] thunar can do the sftp with outside help [03:28] len-1210: gigolo? [03:28] search was a separate app [03:28] holstein: Nautilus was not dropping the "connect to server" feautre. AFAIK, only paned view [03:28] The rest is just cosmetics [03:28] ailo: yeah, it was folks missing that in thunar [03:29] holstein, yes, but with some extra package we don't have [03:29] someone wanting nautilus running in xubuntu [03:29] They can always install it if they want [03:29] len-1210: i was wondering if its something that would be appreciated upstream [03:29] I have had some problems with thunar dying on me [03:29] Also, there are other applications for mounting filesystems. I usually use sshfs using the terminal [03:30] im using thunar 1.0.2 [03:30] ailo: sshfs is what gigolo would be doing right? [03:30] kind of a gui for that and other things? [03:30] Ya [03:31] after i found gigolo, i didnt "need" nautilus anymore [03:31] that was the last thing i just didnt understand how to replace with my skill level [03:32] So far Gnome hasn't dropped any features, other than cosmetic, AFAIK. Only been adding them [03:32] Some gui controls are changing, becoming more minimalistixc [03:32] nothing wrong with that [03:33] im suprised the ubuntu-gnome edition isnt bigger already [03:33] ailo: http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/home-1 [03:33] the one thing missing was an about box.... so I could find out what the program was called [03:33] i thought you might want to get in on that [03:33] I think it's a general misconception of Gnome3, since it's not as easy to customize at first glance [03:34] holstein: Ubuntu is getting a Gnome derivative soon [03:34] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes [03:34] Based on Gnome 3.6 [03:34] i thought that was it [03:35] i saw "them" asking about how to set up an irc channel [03:35] i just thought it would have been right when the switch to unity happened [03:35] Ah, didn't read more closely [03:36] there have been changes to the theme too [03:36] Gnome3 would have needed more developers working on customization. The initial config is a bit crude [03:36] the window with focus now has a blue top bar [03:36] and most other highlights are blue too [03:37] well, the initial unity at that time was on par i thought [03:37] i think now its too little too late [03:38] folks have either jumped to mint, or like unity [03:38] not that i dont want to try it out, and support it [03:38] Don't think it matters. If Gnome3, or rather Gnome4, which is not that far away, will rock a bit more, I think it will automatically create interest [03:39] Problem is all the veteran nix people, who don't like to leave the 90's [03:39] i think for some more tech-y folk [03:39] i was thinking the ubuntu community though.. they are likely using unity now, and the newcomers as well [03:39] we'll see.. i dont think gnome3 is bad either [03:39] i like it and unity just fine now that they have "had time to bake" [03:40] the time was unfortunate i think... and neither one are really anything im interested in running on my desktop full time i dont think [03:40] I guess I am one of the old guys ;) [03:40] len-1210: hehe! [03:41] I was looking at fvwm again and thinking how nice it was [03:41] I've been running Gnome3 for the past 6 months, and have no complaints [03:41] But I can see why people don't see the benefits [03:41] It does take a few moments to get into new features too [03:42] I have two problems with unity... both speed things [03:42] it takes a long time to change desktops (1 to 3 or what ever) [03:43] it takes a long time to start any app not on the left bar [03:43] I felt Unity was slow too [03:43] it was... its faster now.. still pokey in a couple spots [03:43] these are not a problem for many people [03:44] its the general layout of both that i just dont need [03:44] I was talking as of 12.04 [03:44] My wife has it and it is fine fore her, she uses three app [03:45] one at a time [03:45] Both Unity and Gnome3 are trying to integrate the web into the desktop, but so far, I think both are not doing the best job at it [03:45] our ISO is still missing two metas [03:46] Need to get moving. Taking a bus to a neighbour city today. Will probably start a "network technician" education there shortly [03:46] Later guys [03:46] G'luck [03:47] ailo: o/ [04:15] micahg, no need to answer just now. I am wondering if the new metas will make it for this cycle or should I put the apps back into the graphics meta for now? And if so, would it hurt to leave the apps in both places... [04:22] micahg, I forgot to add. ubuntustudio-default-settings has two bug fixes (again) There is a third to do, but I am waiting for information. [04:23] len-dt: ok, unless the fixes are critical for beta 1, I'll upload after that, as for the metas, just ask cjwatson if he can do it after beta 1, I seem to be missing something WRT the metas somehow [04:23] micahg, not critical [04:24] Our ISO seems to install. [07:01] ailo, beta 1 fails. It does not install. Did we set device auto mounting on purpose or can we deselect it? [07:06] or can we set it up different in live from install? [08:12] Hello all [08:17] ailo, len-dt: What are your comments on Ubuntu GNOME remix? Also I didn't test the build, my download speed is bad:( [08:19] I mean the Beta 1:) [12:31] ailo: do you know if there is a Quantal lowlatency kernel git like in your email? [13:32] smartboyhw, beta 1 does not install right. As soon as partman formats the partition our de mounts it then ubiquity gets upset and says it won't install to a mounted partition. [13:33] I was able to work around that though [13:33] OK, I can't test it, strangely cdimage has a very poor internet connection [13:38] hi len-dt, did you have have a good camping trip? [13:38] Aye [13:39] scott-work, how are you? [13:39] ailo: maybe your email (and leanne's poke) might help move andy forward on the procedures [13:39] len-dt: i believe i'm doing okay [13:39] Hi scott-work [13:39] scott-work, our ISO doesn't install without fidling [13:39] hello smartboyhw [13:40] "fidling"? hmmmm, that's a little concerning, no? [13:40] Very. [13:40] scott-work: I wonder: Can I be mod of the Ubuntu Studio section of Ubuntu Forums? [13:40] if doing the "use whole disk" install it fails [13:40] smartboyhw: i don't have control of that, i'm not actually sure who does really. sto.chastic is a mod though, you might ping him [13:41] Oh OK, since jussi is not helping out now, and he (or she) told me to ask you [13:41] len-dt: is that something vanilla is experiencing as well or just localized to ubuntu studio [13:42] smartboyhw: there is also a "ubuntu forums council", i believe, that might have the authority to set mods [13:42] The DE auto mounts the newly created partition and ubiquity won't install on it [13:42] smartboyhw: but you can always google search how to be a mod in ubuntu forums [13:42] Sure, but then I think I need your approval [13:42] So if we set no auto mount it should fix it. [13:43] however, we had automount set last rel and no problem [13:43] smartboyhw: i think jussi.'s default answer these days is "see Scott" for everything. even the things i don't do or know about :P [13:43] ;P [13:43] So then how? I don't even seee stochastic on the forums these days [13:43] len-dt: i wonder if something changed elsewhere that might be affecting this [13:43] smartboyhw: you can send sto.chastic an email from his launchpad account [13:43] I'm answering a few questions at least [13:44] len-dt: meaning, it worked last release, vanilla made a change but also changed the automount setting, and now we are having issues [13:44] xfce4.10/thunar may be more agressive about looking for new partitions to mount or ubiquity may not be fast enough grabbing it. [13:44] len-dt: perhaps asking colin might shed some light or at least get a point of contact for who might know about it [13:45] I will be talking to him anyway so I will ask. does he hang out on an irc channel ? which one should I look at? [13:46] scott-work, I need to help my wife out the door to school back in a bit. [13:46] Oh ok [13:46] len-dt: i would say #ubuntu-devel is the most active that i have seen [13:49] hi smartboyhw [13:49] Hi stochastic [13:49] I wanna be mod at the Ubuntu Studio section of Ubuntu Forums, [13:50] smartboyhw: afaik you need to be very active within that forum section first [13:50] Sure, I'm getting to it:) [13:50] * falktx says 'hi all'! [13:50] I did make some post [13:50] Oh sure here comes falktx who wants to topple scott-work's throne:( [13:51] yes, that's certainly true, very active. I think I was at around 2000+ posts before I was given moderator status there [13:51] Wow, ok [13:51] the Ubuntu Studio section is the only section (or was at the time) where there was other moderators than the standard forum moderators [13:51] Not now [13:52] and it's a process that requires the Ubuntuforums staff's approval, not really the Ubuntu Studio team's approval [13:52] jussi was also a moderator there, not sure if he's still very active there - I know my work there has died off significantly [13:53] Garoff [13:54] is there any particular reason why you need moderator status in that forum? [13:54] Since you guys have not been active there, and I wanna help:) [13:58] Er, do I get a reply? [14:00] ...stochastic, len-dt, scott-work: Then will tmr's image have a clean build? [14:01] clean? [14:01] I mean no bugs [14:02] We will have bugs till after beta one. we are missing most of the photo and publishing applications [14:03] Yep, but then can we ensure we can actually install? [14:03] A bit early to tell [14:03] Well, two days remaining [14:04] Scool starts today for one of my sons... I have other things to do too [14:05] no bugs is an unattainable attribute... (the cake is a lie) [14:06] being able to install is pretty big [14:07] HAHAHA [14:08] Well I think being able to install is the prerequisite [14:15] scott-work, I have in the past had thunar try to mount fresh partitions too. It seems to be a race thing where it depends on how fast ubiquity mounts the partition. [14:15] Most of the time it was ok. I suspect changes in ubiquity have made it a bit slower at mounting things. [14:16] Is the automount setting a big thing? it may be best to just turn it off by default. [14:17] one could argue that having something mount itself in the middle of audio work is not something we want anyway. [14:17] Or... can we have it turned off in live and on after install? [14:30] len-dt: On the last question, I think we should give full potential and features of the OS to the guys who just wanna try it. [14:55] hi falktx :) [14:55] len-dt is not answering:( [14:56] smartboyhw: i believe we (len really) is still triaging the problem [14:56] scott-work: Len is our golden boy isn't he?:) [14:56] to the image (or clean build) [14:57] len-dt: are we including thunar still on the image? i seem to recall that we were moving completely to nautilus, is that still the goal? [14:58] smartboyhw: "On the last question, I think we should give full potential and features of the OS to the guys who just wanna try it." i'm not i understand what point you are trying to make [14:59] Well I mean that we should not just omit a feature in live and enable it after install [15:03] scott-work, smartboyhw it would not omit it, just change the setting, however the ubiquity devs want to fix ubiquity. So I will let them. It seems thunar keeps moving where its config is kept from release to release. [15:03] len-dt: OK YEAH! [15:03] ubiquity talk? [15:03] !logs [15:03] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [15:05] cj watson would like to have things so that if any flavour decides to enable automount it will still install. [15:05] Looking at it now [15:05] AFAIK it can be disabled in one of Ubiquity's functions [15:06] OK [15:06] there's a dedicated setting for locking the desktop during installation - disabling user switching, etc etc [15:06] but I'm not entirely sure when the function is called [15:06] you can disable the automount in ubiquity_dm binary but it's not clear how to bring it back [15:07] at least I haven't figured out how to revert a similar change when it's done from ubiquity_dm [15:07] if you do, please tell me [15:09] the locking funtion I've been talking about is lockdown_environment(self) in ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py [15:10] smartboyhw: o/ [15:11] \o holstein [15:38] !ubuntustudio-dev is ubuntustudio-devel [16:41] len-dt: would you be able to compile a loose list of things changed recently that we can ask testers to confirm? [16:42] len-dt: what i am thinking is basing this off of the completed items in the blueprints and noting either in email or in the release notes (started by skaet) for the milestone images [16:42] this would also afford us a list for the final release notes when released [16:43] and by the way len-dt, thank you VERY MUCH for your efforts in this cycle in particular, we certainly would not have made nearly the same progress without your efforts [16:49] scott-work, sorry zoned out a bit. watching -release to see if ubiquity is going to get fixed or I should make a change to -settings so we can at least install... [17:17] scott-work, -default-settings has been changed to no automounting of removable storage devices. [17:17] This will allow our ISO to install. The user can set auto mount from settings once they install. [17:18] len-dt: that sounds like a good, prudent plan [17:18] at least we can get testing done currently [17:18] scott-work, I have wondered in the past if it is a good idea to have something automount while recording... [17:19] * len-dt thinks pluggin something in while recording is not smart [17:19] hehe, you are probably right ;) [17:28] Ok, it's in. Looks like it made it before respin. [18:17] len-dt: sweet! who uploaded it for you to the repos? [18:17] oh. i see the bug report, looks like colin did [18:19] len-dt: would the high resolution timer adjustment help ralf with MIDI jitter? [18:30] scott-work, I don't know. I have yet to be able to reproduce any problems I have had. [18:31] I would think Ralph would have tried it though. In any case Ralph does not use USB MIDI ports, he has something more stable either PCI or FW [19:25] scott-work: Yea, seems like the ball is rolling now [19:28] len-dt: I didn't know about the auto mount part. I'm pretty oblivious to what happens during installation, from a non user perspective. [19:32] I really have a nack to make a mess on mail lists [19:32] or, rather, knack for making.. [19:33] ailo, auto mount is now off by default. [19:34] len-dt: The disk can't be mounted while partitioning, right? But, the installer should know this, no? [19:35] I suppose this only happens if installing from desktop, with auto mount on? [19:35] And what if you manually mount the disk, and the install? [19:35] At some point ubiquity will work with automount enabled. But disabled is, in my mind better anyway as it uses thunar and everything else uses nauilus [19:36] Only usb devices are usually auto mounted, from my experience [19:36] If you manually mount, ubiquity will ask to dismount and then it can continue. With auto mount it goes in circles [19:36] Weird [19:37] len-dt: But, then the auto mount is mounting in a different way, right? [19:37] It seems anyting not mounted by default is thought of as removable [19:37] different mountpoint [19:37] xfce4.10 moves the file where thunar keeps it's configs [19:38] this breaks ubiquity [19:38] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/ubuntu/2008-04-12-desktop-automount-pain.html [19:38] ailo, see the link for more info [19:39] I see [19:41] Well, I'm going to bed. Hopefully I passed the test today, and am able to start studying for different certificates soon [19:41] Individual study pace, and freedom of choice what certificates are concerned, paid by the government [19:41] I'm going Linux as much as possible, of course [19:41] The test was a bit funny. The computer part was mostly about msdos [19:42] Like a bad joke [19:42] Anyway, gn === TheMaster is now known as Hypnotoad [23:32] len-dt: Good morning [23:35] aaaalllllrrrrreeeaaadddyyyy????? [23:35] len-dt: Come on it's 7:35 AM. How is the ubiquity going for Beta 1? [23:36] At least in here:) [23:37] If we get a respin it should be okish [23:37] :) [23:37] probably will install from boot ok but not from live session till the respin [23:37] OK [23:38] still missing two metas, but we are waiting till after beta1 to fix that. [23:38] Anyway gotcha go to school now:)