[04:57] <pleia2> so, I have been out of it all weekend, are we set for a beta1? (I haven't tested any of the images lately, need to do that but won't get to it before beta1)
[04:58] <pleia2> should get release notes prepped if we're ready
[05:10] <micahg> it's oversized and I'm not sure how we fix that ATM
[05:12]  * pleia2 nods
[08:29] <mips1911> I did a minimal cli netinstall + xfce4 last night the only issue I have so far is that it shows all my extra hdd/partitions twice on the desktop? Any idea why and how to fix it?
[08:29] <smartboyhw> mips1911: This is a support channel:)
[08:31] <ochosi> knome, mr_pouit, micahg: any idea how we could fix bug #1010487 ?
[08:31] <mips1911> smartboyhw, it's 12.10 which is has not been released yet
[08:31] <smartboyhw> OH OK
[08:57] <knome> ochosi, hmph.
[08:58] <ochosi> knome: we should really try to tackle that...
[08:58] <ochosi> it seems like either greybird or gtk3 isn't working properly there
[08:58] <knome> yup.
[08:58] <knome> or both :P
[08:58] <ochosi> i would've hoped things would be solved with beta1
[08:58] <ochosi> but reportedly not
[08:58] <knome> we should really look on how to start the installer without compositor
[08:58] <ochosi> (mostly because the greybird upload in alpha was still rather buggy)
[08:58] <knome> i believe we'll solve this bug while doing that
[08:59] <ochosi> do you know whom to ask?
[08:59] <knome> no, not really, but i'd start with stgraber and cjwatson probably
[08:59] <ochosi> i mean we also have that problem of the "networks available" popup in the installer, while there is no panel or anything to interact with that message
[08:59] <ochosi> ok, let me know if there's anything i can do (i.e. fixes in greybird)
[09:00] <knome> well, you can ask stgraber and/or cjwatson ;)
[09:00] <ochosi> nope, no time
[09:00] <knome> hah, well, yeah..
[09:01] <ochosi> all i can offer at this point is fixing stuff in greybird
[09:01] <ochosi> (although i don't think it'll be necessary)
[09:01] <knome> what was the bug number for the grey window borders again
[09:02] <ochosi> what grey window borders?
[09:02] <ochosi> you mean the xorg-bug?
[09:02] <knome> no
[09:02] <knome> the grey window shades
[09:03] <knome> doesn't that happen at the same point than this new bug?
[09:03] <ochosi> still not sure what bug you're talking about
[09:03] <knome> bug #923909
[09:03] <knome> not that!
[09:03] <knome> #924909
[09:03] <knome> bug #924909
[09:03] <ochosi> you mean the compositor-problems?
[09:03] <ochosi> ah right
[09:03] <knome> so doesn't that appear at the same time?
[09:03] <ochosi> yeah, in a way
[09:03] <knome> so they are *possibly* interconnected?
[09:04] <ochosi> although i'm not sure they are connected
[09:04] <knome> mh.
[09:04] <ochosi> we had the compositor-bug already last cycle
[09:04] <ochosi> without the gtk3 issues
[09:04] <ochosi> to me it seems like in ubiquity-config, the gtk3 theme isn't set correctly
[09:04] <ochosi> so it should be easy to fix
[09:04] <ochosi> (i hope)
[09:05] <ochosi> the other thing with the compositor is more complex, it means switching it off conditionally (i.e. when in "install mode")
[09:05] <ochosi> but leaving it on while in "live mode"
[09:05] <knome> does the new bug happen in "live mode" too?
[09:05] <ochosi> nope
[09:05] <ochosi> i didn't notice anything there
[09:06] <knome> ok
[09:06] <ochosi> and i think in that bugreport there's also a comment suggesting that
[09:06] <knome> "I have the same bug on a live session on Quantal Beta 1."
[09:06] <ochosi> a-ha
[09:06] <ochosi> odd
[09:06] <knome> a#8
[09:06] <knome> -a
[09:06] <knome> same comment: "However, when the desktop is loaded, clicking on the icon "Install Xubuntu 12.10", Ubiquity starts with grey background and readable text."
[09:07] <ochosi> yeah
[09:07] <ochosi> dunno what that means
[09:07] <knome> and somebody suggests it might've been bluebird too (fixed by changing to thinice)
[09:07] <ochosi> that's the part i remembered
[09:07] <knome> well yeah, that's "live mode"
[09:07] <ochosi> nope, the evolution-issue is entirely unconnected
[09:07] <knome> aha
[09:07] <ochosi> those comments should be taken out
[09:08] <knome> can you comment that it's a different issue
[09:08] <knome> and whether it's been fixed or not
[09:10] <ochosi> done
[09:10] <ochosi> (i have no motivation to fix an evolution-only bug btw)
[09:10] <knome> :)
[09:11] <ochosi> (i've known about it for a while and investigated, but i'm not reading their sources again)
[09:11] <knome> heh
[09:12] <ochosi> bbl
[09:12] <knome> see you / hf
[09:23] <knome> ochosi, in the ubiquity source (lp:ubiquity), see bin/ubiquity-dm to see how/what's run
[14:10] <ochosi> knome: so wait, you were asking _me_ to look at ubiquity's source? :)
[15:26] <knome> ochosi, har har
[15:26] <knome> ochosi, that's what we need to do
[15:27] <ochosi> "we"? :)
[15:27] <knome> the xubuntu team
[15:27] <ochosi> hehe
[15:27] <ochosi> btw, it would've been better to use a wallpaper-variant without the dots for the lightdm and plymouth theme
[15:28] <knome> we can still fix that
[15:28] <knome> file a bug
[15:33] <pnarciso> discussing the theme?
[15:34] <GridCube> ochosi, i dissagree, for some reason the dots make it... more official... sort off, i cant really explain, it just looks more professional
[15:34] <knome> GridCube, their strectching is a problem in lightdm and plymouth
[15:34] <ochosi> GridCube: but they look bad when scaled (which only happens in plymouth and lightdm)
[15:35] <knome> GridCube, we're not discussing to drop them from the wallpaper completely
[15:35] <GridCube> oh, correct
[15:35] <GridCube> never though of that
[15:37] <GridCube> i know this might be asking a lot, but cant they be added "live" like as a software made layer?
[15:38] <knome> at least not after UIF
[15:40] <GridCube> no, never mind its an inecesary work
[15:40] <GridCube> unnecesary?
[15:42] <pnarciso> are you discussing removing the circles in the wallpaper while in lightdm
[15:42] <knome> pnarciso, yes
[15:43] <pnarciso> because of issues in 4:3 screens?
[15:43] <pnarciso> the circles arent circles anymore :)
[15:44] <knome> yes
[15:45] <pnarciso> well, I like the actual desktop, but the circles look bad on 4:3.
[15:45] <pnarciso> I like having the same wallpaper in both lightdm and desktop, so the best solution is changing the default desktop
[15:45] <knome> we can leave the dots on the desktop wallpaper
[15:46] <pnarciso> I think it doesnt look that good, because when entering session it seems the circles would appear from thin air :)
[15:47] <GridCube> cant lightdm notice the ratio of the screen and choose a walpaper from that ratio spectrum? say you make a 4:3, and a 16:9 ones and let lightdm choose the apropiate one for the case
[15:47] <pnarciso> but this is my personal opinion
[15:48] <knome> GridCube, no idea :)
[15:49] <GridCube> :P if we only had madnick around
[15:51] <pnarciso> the greybird wallpaper could be and alternative, it doesn't look bad at 4:3
[15:55] <ochosi> not sure it's really a problem if the dots appear
[15:57] <pnarciso> it's a minor detail, that's for sure
[15:58] <pnarciso> I'm more concerned about the wnidow borders missing :)
[16:05] <pleia2> are we going to be able to fix bug 1010487?
[16:05] <pleia2> it's a bit :(
[16:05] <pleia2> oh, I see above
[16:05]  * pleia2 backscrolls
[16:06] <knome> i should paste the whole log
[16:06] <pleia2> haha
[16:06] <pleia2> nooo
[16:06] <knome> no
[16:06] <knome> from -release
[16:06] <pleia2> oh
[16:06] <pleia2> I shall look there
[16:06] <knome> no wait
[16:06] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1187454/
[16:07] <knome> "secone one" being the bug you pointed to
[16:07]  * pleia2 nods
[16:08] <pnarciso> beta 1 is released tomorrow isn't it?
[16:09] <knome> yeah
[16:09] <knome> i promised to do the testing calls
[16:09] <knome> oops :)
[16:10] <knome> fortunately we only have two images \o/
[16:10] <pnarciso> Having tried the latest xubuntu build to see if install issues are fixed?
[16:10] <knome> they aren't
[16:10] <knome> if you're pointing to the visual issues
[16:11] <pnarciso> so, it means we can only install with alternate
[16:12] <knome> there is no alternate
[16:12] <knome> you can't install with it :P
[16:13] <pnarciso> lol
[16:13] <pnarciso> so we have a non working beta
[16:13] <pnarciso> great ...
[16:13] <mips1911> netinstall
[16:14] <mips1911> I did a netinstall last night
[16:14] <mips1911> or should I say very early this morning, got to bed at 3am
[16:15] <knome> pnarciso, we have three "passed" tests
[16:15] <pnarciso> which are?
[16:16] <knome> pnarciso, please refer to the iso tracker
[16:16] <pnarciso> ok
[16:18] <knome> xubuntu images going to be respun for other issues
[16:21] <pnarciso> the problem I had with daily iso, was that when I try to install to custom partitions instead of auto install, I would not pass from the keyboard selection screen.
[16:21] <bluesabre> knome, looks like we're still building alternates: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20120904/
[16:22] <bluesabre> or did we stop as of today?
[16:22] <knome> bluesabre, we did stop as of today; i told them again we didn't want alternates :P
[16:22] <bluesabre> ah
[16:22] <knome> (they had missed it the first time)
[16:22] <bluesabre> :D
[16:23] <pnarciso> having alternate is expendable as long as normal isos install
[16:24] <knome> pnarciso, we simply don't have the workforce for that. to read more about the decision, refer the the mailing list archive
[16:24] <pnarciso> I understand
[16:25] <knome> i just dropped the wubi tests from the testsuites too, since we don't support that
[16:27] <pnarciso> the only alternative to people who want to install and try beta is to install alpha3 first and then let the system upgrades
[16:27] <knome> no
[16:27]  * bluesabre wonders if it's possibly to create some automated testing with Sikuli (http://sikuli.org/)
[16:27] <knome> as i said, we have three passed tests with the betas
[16:27] <knome> bluesabre, there's some automated testing we should set up, but you should talk with micahg about that
[16:28] <knome> we are seriously oversized
[16:28] <bluesabre> Yeah, what's causing that?
[16:28] <micahg> ?
[16:28]  * micahg knows nothing of automated tests
[16:28] <knome> micahg, hmm, i thought you had a workitem on that
[16:28] <knome> maybe i misunderstood
[16:29] <micahg> knome: I might, I was in the session
[16:29] <pnarciso> I see zero passed in manual partitioning
[16:29] <knome> micahg, what can we do for the oversiedness?
[16:29] <micahg> knome: right now, nothing
[16:29] <knome> pnarciso, we're being respun to fix that.
[16:29] <micahg> yank gimp is the knee jerk reaction
[16:29] <pnarciso> which was where daily isos were failing
[16:29] <micahg> there should be more fluff to cut
[16:29] <knome> micahg, i'm looking at the langpacks, and why do we have PT instead of, say, DE?
[16:30] <micahg> yeah, we can drop langpacks, but that won't get us all the way
[16:30] <micahg> I'm supposed to drop the gtk2 requirement of gimp at some point, don't know if I"ll make it for this cycle though
[16:30] <pnarciso> well, I'm Portuguese :)
[16:30] <pnarciso> screw german :)
[16:30] <knome> pnarciso, yeah, but why portuguese instead of german?
[16:31] <knome> micahg, and xhosa, really? :P
[16:31] <pnarciso> well because more people speak portuguese than german?
[16:32] <micahg> oh, wow, we're shipping a lot of languages
[16:32] <knome> micahg, are we?
[16:32] <knome> micahg, i'm looking at the manifest, and i can count to 6
[16:32] <knome> including en
[16:33] <micahg> en, es, fr, pt, xh
[16:33] <knome> zh
[16:33] <knome> (or zh-hans)
[16:33] <micahg> ah, yes
[16:34] <knome> what was the latest bump up on the size?
[16:34] <knome> weren't we somewhat closer to the limit?
[16:34] <knome> 757 for amd beta 1
[16:34] <knome> :<
[16:34] <micahg> we can drop all for amd64 and still not get there
[16:35] <pnarciso> how much size does gimp occupies
[16:35] <micahg> we can drop some fonts...
[16:35] <micahg> still might not get us there though
[16:35] <knome> micahg, so a langpack is about 6,5MB?
[16:36] <micahg> ~10
[16:36] <knome> hmm, that much
[16:36] <bluesabre> Are we shipping both versions of python?  What requires python3?
[16:36] <knome> i think we are at a point where we either drop all the langpacks or none :P
[16:37] <pnarciso> what the size limite?
[16:37] <pnarciso> 800?
[16:37] <bluesabre> 703, right?
[16:37] <knome> a standard CD, 703
[16:37] <knome> we're 54 oversized on amd64
[16:38] <pnarciso> but is that size mandatory
[16:38] <pnarciso> who use cd's anyway
[16:38] <knome> many users with older computers who can't boot from USB
[16:38] <micahg> xchat would give us 1.5MB
[16:38] <micahg> pidgin does IRC
[16:39] <knome> micahg, mmh.. but that's not too much really
[16:39] <bluesabre> What about gnome-games?
[16:39] <pnarciso> gnome games can go
[16:39] <knome> i agree, but how big is it
[16:39] <micahg> Games: We only ship a few by default.
[16:39] <micahg>  * (aisleriot) [!powerpc]
[16:39] <micahg>  * (gnome-mahjongg) [!powerpc]
[16:39] <micahg>  * (gnomine) [!powerpc]
[16:39] <micahg>  * (gnome-sudoku) [!powerpc]
[16:40] <knome> micahg, how much space do they eat?
[16:40] <knome> wait, what's screensaver-default-images ?
[16:41] <micahg> mahjongg is ~2.5MB
[16:41] <pnarciso> screensaver can go as well
[16:41] <mips1911> So who's working on Bug#1039375 :)
[16:41] <knome> bug #1039375
[16:42] <knome> mips1911, probably no-one right now.
[16:42] <micahg> screensaver stuff total is <1MB
[16:42] <knome> micahg, even the screensaver-default-images package?
[16:42] <mips1911> knome, I spent the whole day pulling my hair out trying to fix 'my problem' until elfy told me it's actually a common bug.
[16:43] <knome> mips1911, yes... and? :)
[16:43] <micahg> knome: .3MB
[16:43] <knome> micahg, meh.
[16:43] <micahg> I think mahjong should go though
[16:43] <knome> yeah, agreed
[16:44] <knome> those who want it, can download it
[16:44] <mips1911> knome, I did a minimal net install so I thought it was something I stuffed up nt knowing it's a common bug. I'll have to leave it for the clever people to fix :) Wonder if the bug comes from upstream
[16:44] <knome> mips1911, i've no idea
[16:46] <pnarciso> alpha 3 doesn't have the duplicate partition showing
[16:46] <pnarciso> it appeared later
[16:46] <pnarciso> screensaver and  games can go
[16:47] <knome> pnarciso, we use the screensaver for locking the screen, so no, all the screensaver stuff can't go
[16:47] <pnarciso> leave only the black screen screensaver
[16:48] <micahg> mahjongg dropped
[16:51] <knome> micahg, which fonts would you propose to drop?
[16:52] <knome> micahg, and would that be in connection with dropping some langpacks
[16:53] <micahg> idk, would like to know what's required and what's nice in the list
[16:55] <pnarciso> how many theme are xubuntu packing
[16:55] <pnarciso> if we only include greybird we can save some space dropping wall papers
[16:57] <knome> i'd keep ubuntu, droid (needed), liberation (needed)
[16:57] <knome> micahg, ^
[16:57] <knome> micahg, and other depending if we have non-western langpaks
[16:57] <knome> pnarciso, not too many, and the wallpapers are in a different package.
[16:58] <micahg> apt-cache show shimmer-themes | grep ^Size
[16:58] <micahg> Size: 233962
[16:58] <knome> micahg, Q?
[16:58] <micahg> yeah
[16:58] <knome> mmh, that's not too much really.
[16:58] <knome> compared to many many more things
[16:59] <knome> micahg, i'm thinking if we drop the non-western langpacks and fonts, are there good metapackages we can tell people to install?
[17:00] <micahg> nope
[17:01] <knome> micahg, what do you think about dropping the langpacks?
[17:01] <micahg> european ones, sure, maybe select 1 of xh/zh
[17:01] <pnarciso> dropping all languages except english is the most easy solution, but the problem is people without internet
[17:02] <micahg> but that's still not enough
[17:02] <knome> if that's 10 per langpack, it would mean 40MB
[17:03] <knome> if we keep xh/zh, we will need the non-western fonts too
[17:03] <micahg> what if we moved gimp out of the livefs?
[17:03] <knome> how much would that give us?
[17:03] <knome> and what else is there we could move
[17:04] <pnarciso> I amd seeing duplicate wallpapers in my instalation
[17:04] <pnarciso> the same walppaper seen twice
[17:05] <knome> do people really expect to have games on their linux installation?
[17:05] <micahg> knome: maybe 10MB more 
[17:05] <mips1911> no, not me
[17:05] <pnarciso> only kids
[17:05] <pnarciso> and there are kids using linux
[17:06] <knome> micahg, what if we went and deleted es, fr, and pt langpacks for starters
[17:06] <mips1911> Why distribute gimp with xubuntu? substute it with pinta instead and those that need gimp can install it.
[17:06] <knome> mips1911, pinta brings in mono, so not really helpful
[17:07]  * micahg thinks the that languages are more core to a good ISO than gimp
[17:07] <knome> micahg, me too. but how much is gimp then, if we dropped it altogehter?
[17:07] <knome> s/ht/th/
[17:07] <micahg> at least 20MB
[17:07] <knome> ain't enough either
[17:08] <micahg> mr_pouit estimated ~40MB last time, idk if that's still true
[17:08] <pnarciso> how much do we have to shave
[17:08] <knome> pnarciso, about 54.
[17:08] <micahg> knome: we can try it post beta 1 and see what it does
[17:08] <mips1911> installing gimp here would be a 21.5MB download and 75MB unpacked
[17:09] <knome> micahg, or we can ask for another respin :P
[17:09] <micahg> no, this isn't the type of thing to respin for (where we're not even close)
[17:10] <knome> micahg, your take on games then?
[17:10] <knome> i'd be willing to drop both gimp and all games.
[17:10] <knome> i simply don't think they provide much to the "xubuntu" image
[17:11] <pnarciso> that fine by me
[17:11] <micahg> knome: start with mahjongg and see what's left :)
[17:11] <knome> and seriously, .7MB for sudoku? :)
[17:12] <micahg> if we're that close, we can drop them
[17:12] <knome> mmh
[17:12] <knome> ok
[17:12] <knome> so can we have another of these sessions after beta1?
[17:12] <micahg> yeah
[17:12] <pnarciso> ofcourse
[17:12] <knome> and are you suggesting to drop anything else than mahjongg now?
[17:13] <knome> gimp?
[17:13] <pnarciso> you can drop the games, and add a shortcut to USC for people who want to install them
[17:13] <knome> pnarciso, it's not that easy
[17:13] <pnarciso> adding  a shortcut in the menu that autoinstalls the missing games
[17:14] <knome> either we drop them and they are not "missing", or we keep them, if we think the would be "missing"
[17:14] <knome> then we should start creating shortcuts for whatever
[17:15] <bluesabre> Yeah, I'm against shortcuts to the USC
[17:15] <bluesabre> Kubuntu does that for Firefox
[17:15] <bluesabre> kinda
[17:15] <bluesabre> I guess there's has it's own "Installer"
[17:15] <knome> that's probably a case that i'd approve
[17:15] <knome> but not for games, really
[17:15] <bluesabre> yeah
[17:15] <pnarciso> I sugested this, to people who use xubuntu and like those games
[17:16] <knome> pnarciso, they can simply go to USC theirselves and install the games, no need to add a shortcut
[17:16] <pnarciso> For me doesn't matter much
[17:17] <knome> micahg, lol
[17:17] <knome> micahg, can you drop gnome-user-guide? :D
[17:17] <bluesabre> what about Transmission?  I know torrents are the way to go for distributing isos, but if it takes up space?
[17:18] <micahg> knome: it's the docs for yelp :(
[17:18] <knome> micahg, but gnome?
[17:18] <knome> micahg, that package is huge.
[17:19] <knome> well, nearly 2MB ;)
[17:19] <knome> bluesabre, looks like transmission would bring like .7
[17:19] <bluesabre> :(
[17:21] <knome> ok, the images are respun
[17:21] <knome> please test them! :)
[17:21] <knome> (manual paritioning along other things should work now)
[17:23] <knome> micahg, my last quantal amd64 download was 733MB. what was added?
[17:23] <micahg> good question :)
[17:24] <knome> that was from 22/08
[17:24] <knome> so some time ago...
[17:24] <knome> but still, something doesn't match
[17:24] <bluesabre> (don't be my fault, don't be my fault)
[17:24] <knome> lol yeah, it must be that new catfish upload
[17:25] <bluesabre> and/or parole
[17:25] <bluesabre> or elementary-xfce
[17:25] <knome> catfish 0.4 - finding files in places you don't expect to find them
[17:26] <knome> bluesabre, you can run a test or two?
[17:46] <bluesabre> knome: Sure thing
[17:46] <knome> bluesabre, thanks
[17:46] <bluesabre> I'll try to sometime today
[17:46] <knome> yeah, deadline is 12UTC tomorrow
[17:46] <bluesabre> Unfortunately, I have the honor of staring at server logs for the next 4 hours
[17:46] <knome> lol
[18:09] <mips1911> Wrt  Bug#1039375  it might be gvfs related according to someone here http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12219640&postcount=5
[18:44] <knome> does anybody know if #1015485 has landed on Q?
[18:44] <knome> fss
[18:44] <knome> bug #1015485
[18:48] <bluesabre> If my latest changes to elementary-xfce went in, I know for sure they should be in there.  But they were fixed before that
[18:49] <knome> i don't know which icons we are talking about
[18:49] <knome> if somebody tells me, i can check when i run a Q test
[18:52] <bluesabre> Sound menu volume icons
[18:52] <bluesabre> :P
[18:53] <bluesabre> But if the volume icon is the right color in parole, it should be fixed
[18:53] <bluesabre> Actually, the 16px variant is in the parole Audio menu
[18:53] <bluesabre> So if it's there, you should be good
[19:38] <knome> bug #1010487
[19:38] <knome> see last comment
[19:39] <knome> ochosi, ^
[19:41] <satya164> btw when i click logout, it takes about a minute
[19:42] <satya164> I've installed Xfce in Ubuntu by sudo apt-get install xfce4 --no-install-recommends
[20:08] <bluesabre> ubiquity doesn't like us :'(
[20:08] <knome> yeah.
[20:08] <bluesabre> However, amd64 installs fine in vm
[20:08] <bluesabre> :D
[20:08] <knome> "failed to create a file system"
[20:08] <knome> in amd64 in vbox
[20:08] <bluesabre> It worked for me
[20:08] <bluesabre> in a brand new bvm
[20:08] <bluesabre> *vm
[20:08] <knome> yeah well, probably got soemthing to do with automounting
[20:10] <knome> at least the new installer slideshow looks ok.
[20:11] <bluesabre> Yeah, the abiword screenshot is outdated though
[20:11] <knome> yeah, but the new version sucks visually
[20:11] <bluesabre> lol
[20:11] <knome> just cheating a little!
[20:11] <knome> look how i even changed the "stick" button1
[20:11] <knome> !
[20:12] <bluesabre> I missed that
[20:12] <bluesabre> :D
[20:12] <knome> hah, yeah
[20:14] <knome> meh
[20:14] <knome> what's the bug for failing window borders again
[20:14] <knome> 1043443
[20:16] <pnarciso> Hey
[20:17] <knome> hello.
[20:17] <pnarciso> I just tried beta1 install
[20:17] <pnarciso> typing from it right now
[20:17] <knome> did you file the report to the iso tracker?
[20:17] <pnarciso> not yet
[20:17] <pnarciso> because is not bug free
[20:17] <knome> pnarciso, please do, espeicially if it isn't.
[20:18] <pnarciso> I have this instalation alongside windows 7
[20:18] <pnarciso> entered live session
[20:19] <knome> the qa tracker is slow, launchpad is slow etc
[20:19] <pnarciso> click install xubuntu, install in custom partitions, all is well until I reach the end of the install, where I appears to have crashed because there's no indication that the instalation has finished.
[20:20] <knome> pnarciso, can you see if a bug has been filed for that; if not, file one
[20:26] <ochosi> knome: re:bugreport, i know that, but what's that to say?
[20:26] <knome> i don't know
[20:26] <knome> beta1 is horrible
[20:26] <knome> i'm already thinking of skipping, but i don't know how that'd help
[20:27] <knome> but if i keep running into errors like i do now, we might have to skip it altogether
[20:27] <pnarciso> what kind of errors?
[20:27] <ochosi> you mean skip the 12.10 release?
[20:27] <knome> skip beta1
[20:27] <knome> pnarciso, "Failed to create a file system"
[20:28] <knome> ochosi, can you run a test?
[20:29] <pnarciso> where do you get that error?
[20:29] <pnarciso> on install?
[20:30] <ochosi> knome: not sure i still have enough time/energy tonight
[20:31] <ochosi> knome: but: wrt the LO bug, it seems the whole menu-problem could be confined in a package that is in recommends "lo-menubar". if that gets installed, you have the "unity-feature" of not having a regular menubar anymore
[20:31] <ochosi> knome: also, if i'd have enough time/energy, i'd rather pursue the ubiquity bug
[20:31] <knome> ochosi, aha, so we'll just blacklist that?
[20:32] <ochosi> knome: i dunno how/if we can
[20:32] <knome> we can, at least from the CD
[20:32] <knome> and why not the installation too
[20:32] <ochosi> yeah, but first we need to test t
[20:36] <micahg> ochosi: what's the LO bug #?
[20:36] <ochosi> micahg: i think you even commented on that one, will quickly dig it up again
[20:37] <knome> hey micahg 
[20:37] <micahg> I see the bug, that's RC for final, but not for beta 1 since we don't ship LO
[20:37] <knome> micahg, can you look at #719338
[20:37] <ochosi> yeah i know
[20:37] <pnarciso> Are you talking about openoffice missing menu?
[20:38] <micahg> knome: nope, I know nothing about ubiquity, as xnox
[20:38] <ochosi> pnarciso: yes
[20:38] <micahg> *ask
[20:38] <pnarciso> it seems that openoffice thinks it's a feature not having any menu :)
[20:38] <pnarciso> bug submited https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1046540
[20:39] <micahg> well, it doesn't have similar logic to firefox on whether it should operate when there's a globalmenu available or not
[20:39] <knome> micahg, what should i reply to his question?
[20:39] <satya164> btw when i click logout, it takes about a minute. I've installed Xfce in Ubuntu by sudo apt-get install xfce4 --no-install-recommends
[20:39] <micahg> knome: who'?s
[20:39] <knome> micahg, xnox's
[20:39] <knome> Dear xubuntu-devs, would you like to change your default livecd settings to stop automounting or would you like ubiquity to do subprocess.call to flip that key off:
[20:39] <knome> xfconf-query -c thunar-volman -p /automount-drives/enabled -s false
[20:39] <ochosi> satya164: did you look at ~/.xsession-errors?
[20:39] <satya164> ochosi: not yet
[20:40] <ochosi> satya164: that's a good place to start i think
[20:40] <satya164> ochosi: it logs out, but takes about a minute
[20:40] <satya164> ochosi: and if i again click logout or shut down, it says
[20:40] <ochosi> satya164: you could also open a terminal, run "top" and then hit logout and see what consumes your cpu
[20:40] <satya164> "Session manager should be in idle state"
[20:40] <satya164> must be
[20:41] <micahg> pnarciso: please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUbiquity
[20:42] <micahg> knome: not sure what we should do with that, probably needs discussion
[20:42] <knome> micahg, bug #1046536 :(
[20:42] <knome> micahg, probably an implication of letting disks automount
[20:43] <ochosi> i'd vote in favor or switching auto-mounting off
[20:43] <ochosi> ppl can easily mount drives by clicking on them
[20:43] <ochosi> and it's just a potential error-source for the installer (because it has to unmount them before partitioning)
[20:44] <micahg> something seems buggy somewhere
[20:44] <ochosi> hehe
[20:44] <ochosi> micahg: may i quote you on that? :)
[20:44] <micahg> the installer shouldn't offer to erase and install on a mounted disk
[20:48] <micahg> ochosi: crud, I did mention it
[20:55] <pnarciso> could the errors related to mounted devices be related to this : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
[20:55] <knome> more likely bug #719338, but that can be another implication of that
[20:56] <pnarciso> because it was about the same time that instalations started to fail. Alpha 3 installed fine.
[20:56] <knome> we need to do many tests after beta1.
[20:57] <knome> i won't be around much tomorrow, but i will log in to see if we will release beta 1 at all or not
[20:57]  * micahg goes away for a bit
[20:57] <knome> if other people seem to be getting ok results, then we can probably release
[20:57] <pnarciso> I gladly test and report issues
[20:58] <knome> otherwise, i'm not keeping high hopes
[20:58] <knome> pnarciso, if you are able, please run more tests for beta1
[20:58] <pnarciso> yes, it's running :)
[20:58] <knome> ok, good
[20:58] <knome> i don't mind if you run them all.
[20:59] <pnarciso> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-droid-sans-fonts.conf", line 103: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not works as expected
[20:59] <pnarciso> this error still shows on a lot of fonts
[20:59] <ochosi> yeah, i think everyone is getting those warnings
[20:59] <knome> yup
[20:59] <satya164> yeah, i also get
[20:59] <knome> ochosi, anything you need from me until i'm gone?
[20:59] <knome> others too
[20:59]  * micahg wonders why xubuntu has various libreoffice packages as supported, will have to fix later
[20:59] <ochosi> knome: fix ubiquity! (or get someone to fix it)
[21:00] <knome> ochosi, eh, how? :P
[21:00] <knome> and what in it
[21:00] <ochosi> knome: dunno, use your special XPL powers!
[21:00] <knome> i believe you should talk with micahg or mr_pouit 
[21:00] <pnarciso> install process and graphical glitches on install must be top priority
[21:00] <ochosi> well, the loading of greybird and disabling the compositor
[21:01] <knome> while micahg said he doesn't know ubiquity, i believe this is rather a problem on how to launch xfce
[21:01] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1187454/
[21:01] <knome> that's our best lead.
[21:01] <knome> and it's probably a good one
[21:01] <pnarciso> I don't think this installation issues are related only to xfce, I think ubuntu itself gave this issues
[21:02] <ochosi> knome: is cjwatson still around?
[21:03] <knome> ochosi, doesn't look like he is
[21:03] <ochosi> hm ok
[21:03] <ochosi> where can i usually find him?
[21:03] <knome> but i don't think we could afford another respin even if he was
[21:03] <knome> #ubuntu-release
[21:03] <ochosi> ok
[21:03] <ochosi> i'll look into it
[21:03] <knome> that's where the discussion on the pastebin happened as well
[21:03] <knome> xnox might be around later today
[21:05] <ochosi> ok, we'll see
[21:06] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1187842/
[21:06] <knome> pasted the whole log there
[21:06] <knome> including the bug stuff, so you'll get context for "second one"
[21:07] <ochosi> mhm
[21:07] <ochosi> looking at the ubiquity source now
[21:07] <knome> yeah
[21:08] <knome> it's as easy as "knome can read it"
[21:09] <ochosi> i assume that the wrong frontend is detected
[21:10] <knome> well yeah, there you go
[21:10] <ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity#L230
[21:10] <knome> If frontend is None, defaults to the first of gtk_ui, kde_ui, and debconf_ui that exists.
[21:10] <knome> shouldn't that work with that fallback too though?
[21:11] <knome> wait
[21:11] <knome> that's the wrong file
[21:11] <knome> :P
[21:11] <knome> try http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm
[21:11] <knome> like, line 413
[21:12] <knome> and/or 390
[21:13] <ochosi> i guess we could look into replacing that xfwm4 command somehow
[21:13] <knome> exactly.
[21:13] <ochosi> with "xfwm4 --compositor=off"
[21:13] <ochosi> and voila
[21:13] <knome> but i don't know what parameters we should give, and how to test ubiquity
[21:13] <ochosi> that's all
[21:13] <ochosi> xfwm4 has a builtin switch
[21:14] <ochosi> with that the compositing problems should go away
[21:14] <knome> even the black things?
[21:14] <knome> or is that another issue
[21:14] <ochosi> nope
[21:14] <ochosi> that is a different story
[21:15] <knome> ok, so what do you think that is about?
[21:15] <ochosi> i assume it's a problem with xfsettingsd
[21:16] <knome> the screenshot i pasted on the bug looks like it's not greybird
[21:16] <knome> it's probably partly that, but there's some fallback stuff
[21:16] <ochosi> it's definitely not greybird :)
[21:17] <ochosi> it could be that there is no theme set via xfsettingsd
[21:17] <knome> line 413 then
[21:17] <ochosi> i guess
[21:17] <ochosi> but i don't know enough about what it does with xfsettingsd
[21:17] <knome> looks like it just runs it
[21:18] <ochosi> if it just loads it, it could be that xfsettingsd loads all our settings which would prolly re-enable the compositor, although i'm not 100% sure about that
[21:18] <ochosi> because the compositor-option has to be set when xfwm4 is started
[21:18] <knome> mm-hmm
[21:18] <ochosi> (afaik)
[21:18] <knome> but if it's in the settings, but you run xfwm4 with the parameter, shouldn't the parameter override anyway?
[21:18] <ochosi> i'd hope yes
[21:19] <ochosi> that would give us the solid gold option of not having compositing in the "install only" mode and compositing in the desktop-session and as default setting
[21:19] <knome> yup
[21:19] <knome> can you follow the path on investigating if we have set a theme in xfsettingsd?
[21:20] <ochosi> btw, what's up with that: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L377
[21:20] <ochosi> well, where can i find xnox?
[21:20] <knome> #ubuntu-release :D
[21:20] <ochosi> ok
[21:20] <ochosi> so they're all hanging out there, ha?
[21:20] <ochosi> :)
[21:21] <knome> yeah, they are
[21:21] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1043170
[21:21] <knome> last comment
[21:22] <ochosi> if ubiquity-greeter wasn't so hard to test...
[21:30] <knome> ochosi, the happy thing is that all stgraber, cjwatson and xnox seem to be nice guys. the situation could be worse...
[21:30] <ochosi> true
[21:30] <ochosi> btw, what image would you recommend for me now?
[21:30] <knome> anything that isn't tested
[21:30] <ochosi> dailies didn't work well i read before?
[21:31] <ochosi> no, i need something that _works_ so i can test ubiquity :p
[21:31] <knome> i was able to install amd64
[21:32] <ochosi> there are only alternate images: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
[21:32] <knome> shoo
[21:32] <knome> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[21:32] <knome> try the -live :P
[21:34] <knome> if we can get i386 non-oversized ("only" 29MB overhead), that'd be fine for Q
[21:36] <ochosi> purge the office suite?
[21:36] <knome> purge gimp :P
[21:36] <knome> we dropped mahjongg
[21:36] <knome> :P
[21:36] <ochosi> hehe
[21:36] <knome> but yeah.... purging the office suite would suit me well (pun intended)
[21:36] <ochosi> let's drop more games
[21:37] <knome> haha
[21:37] <knome> they're not gonna be as big as mj
[21:37] <knome> that was 2.5MB !
[21:37] <ochosi> WOW :)
[21:37] <knome> other games are <1MB
[21:37] <ochosi> that doesn't even fit on a floppy! ;)
[21:38] <knome> but together probably about 2MB'ish
[21:38] <knome> yeah
[21:38] <knome> Size: 762676
[21:38] <knome> REALLY, 700kb+ for SUDOKU?
[21:39] <ochosi> fancy graphics when for the "win"-screen? :)
[21:39] <knome> but yeah, amd64 is 757MB :P
[21:39] <knome> so.. there's a few things to drop there.
[21:39] <ochosi> we should probably decide whether to 1) forget about CDs or 2) forget about certain software by default
[21:40] <knome> yup.
[21:40] <knome> if we forget CDs, we can probably just barely add mahjongg back to fit a 1GB usb stick
[21:40] <knome> probably need to lose it on 13.04 again though
[21:40] <knome> (:
[21:41] <ochosi> we could (instead of alternate) ship two versions: one more minimal for cd, and one for 2gb usb sticks
[21:41] <ochosi> anyhoo
[21:41] <knome> 1GB would work well enough
[21:41] <ochosi> how do i get to a tty in vbox again
[21:41] <knome> that's what ubuntu is doing
[21:42] <knome> i'm not willing to drop arches really, and i think locking one arch for non-CDs is suboptimal
[21:42] <knome> though it is relatively fine, since most amd64 users probably have a pc that's able to boot from usb
[21:43] <knome> anyway, i'm off too
[21:43] <knome> see you tomorrow (briefly, got lots to do/where to go)
[21:44] <knome> pleia2, i'm seeing the guy running the linux courses with xubuntu tomorrow, btw
[21:44] <knome> and i haven't planned at all..
[21:44] <knome> i need to wake up earlyish :)
[21:44] <knome> anyway, bbl. see you
[21:47] <pnarciso> see ya
[23:00] <pleia2> knome: good luck :)
[23:06] <ochosi> anyone here knows where i can find the ubiquity bug with the grey borders stuff?
[23:06] <bluesabre> knome mentioned it earlier I think
[23:07] <bluesabre> on this channel (I think)
[23:07] <ochosi> i think i found it
[23:07] <ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/924909
[23:07] <bluesabre> woot
[23:07] <ochosi> it's quite mislinked though (no relevance to metacity or xfwm4)
[23:08] <ochosi> i'm happy to say i have a fix for that
[23:08] <bluesabre> yay!  Receiving objects: 100% (307429/307429), 207.83 MiB | 531 KiB/s, done.
[23:08] <ochosi> wow
[23:08] <bluesabre> stupid gtk
[23:08] <bluesabre> awesome ochosi!
[23:08] <bluesabre> How crazy of a fix is it?
[23:08] <pleia2> yay ochosi!
[23:09] <ochosi> bluesabre: simply disable the compositor in the ubiquity-only session
[23:09] <ochosi> we had that on our roadmap
[23:09] <ochosi> but astraljava didn't have the time to look into it
[23:09] <bluesabre> ah
[23:09] <bluesabre> cool
[23:09] <ochosi> actually i wanted to fix another issue, but this kinda "came up"
[23:10] <bluesabre> any idea what's going on with the undecorated, black windows?
[23:10] <ochosi> ?
[23:10] <ochosi> undecorated? that's new
[23:10] <bluesabre> it has the borders
[23:10] <bluesabre> but the widgets are windows95-ish
[23:10] <ochosi> woot
[23:10] <ochosi> where what?
[23:10] <bluesabre> knome logged it earlier
[23:10] <bluesabre> I'm on the wrong partition right now
[23:11] <bluesabre> otherwise I'd give you a good link
[23:11] <bluesabre> :D
[23:12] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1010487
[23:12] <bluesabre> last comment
[23:12] <ochosi> oh right
[23:12] <ochosi> yeah, that was the one i was working on
[23:12] <bluesabre> cool
[23:12] <ochosi> when i realized we can simply switch off the compositor and do away with the grey traces at least
[23:12] <ochosi> supposedly our bug is also fixed by xnox
[23:13] <ochosi> i tried to test it, but i'd have to rebuild ubiquity in live-usb-mode from cli...
[23:13] <bluesabre> gross
[23:13] <ochosi> well modifying ubiquity from term and restarting it is fine
[23:14] <ochosi> well, try to download a file from bzr from the commandline
[23:14] <ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/quantal-proposed/view/head:/gui/gtk/ubiquity.ui
[23:14] <ochosi> (hover the download-link please :) )
[23:16] <bluesabre> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/quantal-proposed/download/head:/liveinstaller.glade-20051205083503-da5c123079d20cb5/ubiquity.ui
[23:16] <ochosi> yes, i know. but thanks for posting it ;)
[23:16] <ochosi> i'm installing bzr now from cli on the live-system
[23:16] <ochosi> then it'll be a tad easier
[23:21] <ochosi> boo, bzr is so slow...
[23:21] <ochosi> bluesabre: so, how many GB does gtk2 have?
[23:21] <bluesabre> GB?
[23:21] <bluesabre> size?
[23:21] <ochosi> yup
[23:22] <bluesabre> apparently 200 mb of source code
[23:22] <bluesabre> actually
[23:22] <bluesabre> thats compressed
[23:22] <bluesabre> 312.4 MB uncompressed
[23:23] <ochosi> not too bad
[23:23] <bluesabre> I wonder if I should extend a custom GtkWidget for this stuff
[23:23] <ochosi> btw, did kalikiana's hints get you any further?
[23:23] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:23] <bluesabre> a little bit
[23:23] <bluesabre> I need to add a muxer to gtkwidget though
[23:25] <bluesabre> which is still probably not the way to do it
[23:27] <ochosi> no clue what a muxer is :)
[23:27] <bluesabre> me neither
[23:27] <ochosi> sounds like a musical filter
[23:27] <bluesabre> but it exists in gtk2
[23:28] <bluesabre> but not as a variable of GtkWidget
[23:28] <bluesabre> There is no easy way to do this it seems
[23:28] <bluesabre> -_-
[23:29] <ochosi> humm, this looks like a small improvement
[23:30] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09062012-013002am.php
[23:30] <bluesabre> woot!
[23:32] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
[23:32] <ochosi> ttyl