[07:24] <SpaceTravel_> hello
[08:19] <SpaceTravel_> hi
[08:22] <AlanBell> morning SpaceTravel_
[08:22] <SpaceTravel_> good morning Alan
[08:22] <SpaceTravel_> thanks for answering
[08:23] <SpaceTravel_> you have a few minutes to help me in a ubuntu 12.04 problem/
[08:23] <AlanBell> possibly, depends what the problem is
[08:23] <AlanBell> and whether I decide to go have some breakfast
[08:24] <SpaceTravel_> i just tried to install Ubuntu 12.04 on a laptop and after it installed it worked extremly slow
[08:24] <SpaceTravel_> ok, go have breakfast and leave an answer when you can
[08:24] <SpaceTravel_> thx
[08:24] <SpaceTravel_> eat well !
[08:24] <AlanBell> how slow?
[08:24] <AlanBell> and what are you comparing it to?
[08:27] <directhex> what specifically is very slow?
[08:29] <SpaceTravel_> after a fresh install this happends
[08:29] <SpaceTravel_> for the first minute after it starts up , works ok
[08:29] <SpaceTravel_> then runs progressively slow !
[08:31] <AlanBell> in terms of screen redraws, disk access, computation of things?
[08:31] <SpaceTravel_> yes !
[08:31] <SpaceTravel_> if i want to open firefox for example. takes a whole minute
[08:31] <SpaceTravel_> and laptop is a HP HDX 18
[08:32] <directhex> can you fire up a terminal?
[08:32] <directhex> then run "top"
[08:32] <SpaceTravel_> yes i could, but that would also open very late
[08:32] <directhex> it'll list running apps, in cpu-usage order
[08:33] <SpaceTravel_> thing is i now have a win version on it .....since 12.04 was not usable
[08:34] <directhex> so you can't be helped
[08:34]  * AlanBell goes for breakfast o/
[08:35] <SpaceTravel_> but any ideas what might cause this lag ?
[08:35] <directhex> some ideas, sure
[08:35] <directhex> e.g. runaway tracker process
[08:38] <SpaceTravel_> yhanks
[08:39]  * popey has breakfast \o/
[08:50] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[09:05] <Mez> so, how many people @ Jam in London?
[09:11] <Laney> 2 so far!
[09:11] <Mez> who's that then ?
[09:12] <davmor2> Laney: join #ubuntu-jam then
[09:12] <Laney> why?
[09:14] <davmor2> Laney: because we are Jammin', Jammin', Jammin', Jammin with Ubuntu today.....
[09:15]  * czajkowski waves from UGJ London 
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> And tonight: Dinosaurs on a spaceship!
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
[09:18] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, infact Laney prod czajkowski please :)
[09:18] <czajkowski> >:(
[09:19] <AlanBell> will there be G+ hangout from jam central?
[09:19] <Laney> hmm
[09:20] <Laney> AlanBell: aren't you coming?
[09:20]  * Laney had a go on a boris bike
[09:20] <Laney> davmor2: she went down to collect people
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> Laney: they're quite useful :)
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> I've used one too last time I was there
[09:24] <AlanBell> Laney: no, domestic stuff means I can't get away
[09:26] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:37] <czajkowski> and we have more arriving
[09:39]  * davmor2 waves at christel, czajkowski and Laney and london
[09:39] <Mez> http://apt-cache.lan:3142
[09:40] <Mez> ignore above - me being an idiot
[09:40] <takeontom> thanks mez :)
[09:40] <Laney> no christel
[09:42] <czajkowski> no christel and no AlanBell
[09:44] <Laney> SLACKERS
[09:47] <davmor2> Laney: so who is there now
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> just Laney
[09:47] <davmor2> AlanBell: you in London yet?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> and his imagination
[09:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: If christel shows up give her a hug for the postcard from me please :)
[09:49] <czajkowski> wilko
[09:54] <popey> czajkowski, you upgrading to 12.10?
[09:56] <czajkowski> yarp
[09:58] <popey> if you fancy testing something bleeding edge, try adding the unity-team staging ppa and upgrade :)
[09:58] <popey> and we have some tests you can run
[09:58] <popey> if you apt-get source unity
[09:58] <popey> then look in the unity folder for "manual tests" there's a bunch of text files describing some tests which should work
[10:01] <czajkowski> REBOOT
[10:01] <czajkowski> popey: got details so we can do that
[10:13] <czajkowski> popey: got the links to the ppa
[10:15] <popey> czajkowski, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging
[10:15] <popey> czajkowski, sudo apt-get update
[10:15] <popey> czajkowski, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:15] <popey> in the event it breaks:-
[10:15] <popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
[10:16] <czajkowski> heh
[10:16] <popey> sudo ppa-purge ppa:unity-team/staging
[10:17] <AlanBell> popey: I will give that a go later, just doing 700MB of updates to other stuffs
[10:18] <popey> i think balloons has put some test cases on the qa tracker too
[10:19] <AlanBell> cool, I think I will try an eyes free install on hardware too
[10:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: you at London now?
[10:20] <czajkowski> Mez: how are things down with you
[10:21] <AlanBell> davmor2: nope, I got stuck at home
[10:21] <Mez> czajkowski: In coventry?
[10:21] <davmor2> AlanBell: Shame on you
[10:22] <davmor2> czajkowski: Mez got sent to coventry I joined voluntarily :D
[10:23] <Mez> davmor2: says a lot more about you than it does me
[10:23] <czajkowski> maybe we can do a hangout later on
[10:23] <czajkowski> gord: we're discussing out disline for the alt key on hud
[10:23] <Mez> czajkowski: does that include how it triggers when you don't want it to ?
[10:24] <AlanBell> unity is lots faster after I upgraded
[10:24] <AlanBell> and I disabled the super-w zoom to window size key in enhanced zoom to get back the default unity binding for that
[10:25] <Laney> zoom zoom
[10:25] <czajkowski> Mez: I rarely use it tbh
[10:26] <popey> i use it when in gimp
[10:26] <AlanBell> hud still steals alt from virtualbox :(
[10:27] <popey> way easier than using menus
[10:28] <AlanBell> I got the hang of setting up gimp in single window mode, that is really nice, I thought I was going to hate it but I don't
[10:32]  * AlanBell adds the unity staging ppa
[10:34]  * AlanBell loses all window decorations
[10:36] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1192447/
[10:39]  * AlanBell purges the ppa
[10:40] <davmor2> Laney: I hate you, now I have the Mazda advert in my head
[10:41]  * AlanBell haz window decorations
[10:41] <AlanBell> popey: how do I file a bug about that?
[10:41]  * popey looks
[10:42] <davmor2> you can haz windowz decorationz
[10:42] <popey> you can file a bug from the command line
[10:42] <popey> you don't need a GUI
[10:43] <popey> so I would get to the state of broken-ness and "ubuntu-bug compiz"
[10:43] <AlanBell> sure, but against ppa?
[10:43] <popey> yes
[10:43] <davmor2> you need to install w3m though
[10:43] <popey> no
[10:43] <popey> you do not
[10:43] <AlanBell> it is a perfectly workable gui, just no decorations
[10:43] <popey> ok, so in tty0, export DISPLAY=:0.0  then ubuntu-bug compiz
[10:44] <popey> it will capture that you're using bleeding edge compiz
[10:44]  * AlanBell upgrades again
[10:44] <AlanBell> oooh E: Type ‘ain’ is not known on line 3 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/unity-team-staging-quantal.list
[10:44] <davmor2> popey: so how do you login to LP to report the bug without a browser then?
[10:45] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1192457/ bad ppa purge, bad
[10:45] <popey> davmor2, you have a browser
[10:45] <popey> firefox
[10:46] <popey> ppa-purge comments out the ppa which is annoying when you come to re-add it
[10:46] <czajkowski> good start: no package named `libjbig0' is installed, cannot configure
[10:46] <czajkowski> could not install libjbig0
[10:46] <popey> czajkowski, when doing what?
[10:46] <czajkowski> no package named `libtiff5' is installed, cannot configure
[10:46] <davmor2> popey:  oh sorry terminal rather than tty
[10:46] <czajkowski> doing the upgrade
[10:46] <popey> davmor2, yes, i know, hence "export DISPLAY=:0.0"
[10:46] <popey> which will trigger firefox
[10:46] <popey> czajkowski, how you doing the upgrade?
[10:47] <czajkowski> alt f2 update manager-d
[10:47] <czajkowski> clicked on the upgade to 12.10
[10:47] <davmor2> popey: installing w3m is way easier though :D
[10:47] <czajkowski> and there is a nice little gui
[10:47] <popey> no, it isnt, ff will remember password etc
[10:47] <bigcalm> Ahoy peeps :)
[10:48] <davmor2> popey: I remember my passwords too though  I have to type them in a million times a day  :D
[10:48] <popey> ok, I am not going to argue about this anymore davmor2
[10:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: why you not at the GBJ in Coventry :D
[10:48] <popey> bug 1025408
[10:48] <bigcalm> davmor2: um, life
[10:48] <bigcalm> davmor2: why are you on irc?
[10:49] <davmor2> GBJ in COVENTRY D'oh!!!!
[10:49] <Mez> The clue was in the previous message
[10:51] <AlanBell> This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again.
[10:51] <czajkowski> hmmmm
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> mmmmh!
[10:51] <czajkowski> my side menu is gone
[10:52] <czajkowski> as are all my borders of applications
[10:52] <czajkowski> this could be funny
[10:52] <popey> "side menu"?
[10:52] <AlanBell> czajkowski: alt-drag to move them about
[10:52] <popey> AlanBell, bah! that's not supposed to happen
[10:52] <AlanBell> I have a launcher still, just no window borders, shadows, title bar
[10:53] <AlanBell> alt-middle click drag to resize things czajkowski
[10:54] <czajkowski> how do you middle click on a trackpad
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> left+right at the same time
[10:55] <bigcalm> Humm, where have all of my Bassnectar albums gone?
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> The way of the dinosaur?
[10:56] <AlanBell> popey: it seems to be allowing me to ubuntu-bug unity
[10:56] <popey> excellent, do that
[10:56] <czajkowski> BBCBDCB
[10:57] <popey> czajkowski, you upgraded and have restarted?
[10:58] <popey> but you had a problem with some packages not installed... sounds like your upgrade didn't finish
[10:58] <AlanBell> bug 1047790
[10:58] <popey> czajkowski, if you drop to a terminal or switch to tty0 you can "sudo dpkg --configure -a"
[10:59] <popey> czajkowski, or "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to finish it off
[10:59] <Laney> czajkowski's window manager went away
[10:59] <AlanBell> UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to quantal on 2012-06-21 (78 days ago)
[10:59]  * AlanBell was brave :)
[10:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: before the upgrade did you ensure you had ubutnu-desktop installed?
[10:59] <Laney> we're in tty1 now
[10:59] <Laney> tailing dpkg.log
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: so who is down at the London Jam?
[11:05] <AlanBell> alt-tab now works reasonably well
[11:06] <popey> something else that needs testing is webapps
[11:06] <AlanBell> alt-doubletab is unpredictable still but I think that is just something to unlearn
[11:07] <popey> what's alt-doubletap?
[11:07] <czajkowski> not used web apps
[11:07] <AlanBell> last-but one window
[11:07] <popey> make sure you have unity-webapps-service installed and try visiting (in chromium) news.bbc.co.uk, facebook, gmail (not apps for domains), flickr, last.fm...
[11:07] <AlanBell> I used to kind of use multiple tab touches to navigate the z-index of about half a dozen active windows
[11:08] <popey> should get an option to "integrate" with the desktop
[11:08] <popey> also test out online apps in system-settings
[11:08] <popey> and the google docs lens :)
[11:08] <AlanBell> web apps is working OK for me right now, is it working in firefox now?
[11:08] <popey> not yet
[11:09] <popey> well, it works but we had to get approval from mozilla i think
[11:09] <popey> and they dragged their heels
[11:09] <AlanBell> ok, so it works in chromium and I have icons now
[11:09] <popey> check the pips are accurate on the launcher
[11:09] <popey> and make sure you dont have too many chromium icons when you restart webapps after locking to launcher
[11:10] <AlanBell> oh I do
[11:10] <AlanBell> but I am not running the staging PPA now, does that have a webapps upgrade in it?
[11:11] <AlanBell> so what happens if mozilla say no? do we ship it as iceweasle?
[11:13] <Guest2102> popey, can you just give those ppa's again. I'm at the global jam in london
[11:13] <Laney> popey: smells
[11:13] <AlanBell> Guest2102: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging
[11:14] <Guest2102> popey, thanks
[11:14] <popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/09/08/%23ubuntu-uk.html
[11:14] <popey> :)
[11:21] <Laney> what are people supposed to be testing in this ppa?
[11:21] <Laney> aha
[11:22] <Laney> 08/09 12:07:36 <popey> make sure you have unity-webapps-service installed and try visiting (in chromium) news.bbc.co.uk, facebook, gmail  (not apps for domains), flickr, last.fm...
[11:22] <Laney> shouldn't unity have brought that in?
[11:23] <Laney> apparently it did, soz
[11:24] <xnox> not facebook?
[11:24] <xnox> not sorry firefox?
[11:24]  * xnox ENGLISH?! DO I SPEAK IT!
[11:26] <penguin42> xnox: Shh, IRC doesn't use baudot
[11:26] <popey> xnox, firefox not worky worky yet
[11:27] <popey> unless it has been added in the last 24 hours
[11:27] <xnox> popey: what about google chrome
[11:27] <popey> xnox, no, chromium
[11:27] <xnox> cause chromium from the archive crashes for me =/
[11:27] <popey> Laney, also, manual testing .. if you "apt-get source unity" you'll find a manual testing folder with lots of tests in txt files
[11:27] <takeontom> czajkowski: you know about a problem not being able to upload attachments on launchpad?
[11:27] <popey> chrome is closed proprietary product which doesn't have our crack in it
[11:28] <xnox> popey: see the post from micahg asking for help maintaining chromium
[11:28] <popey> i have not
[11:35] <xnox> popey: so the daily ppa for chromium (stable, beta, dev channels) is borked
[11:36] <xnox> popey: due to packaging problems with importing launchpad translations or something like that
[11:36] <takeontom> anyone else having trouble uploading attachments to launchpad?
[11:40] <Guest2102> popey, have added the ppa and installed unity-webapps-service (which was already there). I head to bbc and get no prompt to run the webapp
[11:42] <davmor2> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1047809 can you confirm this at all please
[11:43] <popey> Guest2102, news.bbc.co.uk should prompt you in chromium
[11:44] <popey> wonder if there's something else missing.. did you restart session?
[11:44]  * popey pops out
[11:44] <Guest2102> popey, yup restarted and in chromium
[11:44] <Guest2102> popey, nothing happening
[11:44] <Guest2102> popey, anything i need to install from that ppa
[11:44] <Guest2102> ?
[11:45] <czajkowski> takeontom it is working fine
[11:46] <takeontom> czajkowski, yeah was an odd permissions problem on my end
[11:47] <takeontom> czajkowski, odd thing was, trying to upload in firefox was resulting in nothing happening. like the upload button was totally dead
[11:47] <takeontom> czajkowski, figured launchpad was broken
[12:03]  * popey returns
[12:04] <popey> james1, does facebook or twitter prompt you?
[12:04] <popey> (after you login)
[12:04]  * popey goes to make party sandwiches
[12:05] <Mez>  popey so, when do we seyour banana keyboard?
[12:06] <popey> dunno :)
[12:07] <james1> popey, twitter gives nothing, but i have just seen that although unity-webapps-service is installed, a lot of the other webapp things in the apt cache weren't.
[12:07] <james1> Do i need them all installed?
[12:14] <popey> yeah, they should get pulled in
[12:19] <davmor2> popey: why is the gdocs not opening apps in gdocs.  Instead I get a uneditable web page :(
[12:25] <Mez> czajkowski: smallest picture of a jam session ever
[12:26] <xnox> popey: we can't run webapps yet =( we need to install more and more of webapps packages.....
[12:26] <xnox> it's not simply dist-upgrade
[12:26] <popey> xnox, apt-cache search webapps
[12:26] <popey> pastebin the result pls
[12:30] <czajkowski> I'm back
[12:30] <czajkowski> :)
[12:30] <czajkowski> I got 5 new bugs
[12:30] <czajkowski> 1 of which was a fix commited
[12:30] <czajkowski> another one from 2011
[12:31] <davmor2> czajkowski: only 5 you just aren't trying
[12:31] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi2-core/+bug/855123
[12:31] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047827
[12:31] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/telepathy-indicator/+bug/796661
[12:32] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047829
[12:32] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/1047830
[12:54] <popey> hah, i achieved 5-a-day yesterday by assigning a load of bugs to someone else :)
[12:55] <davmor2> popey: I did to
[12:56] <popey> :)
[12:57] <popey> did you london chaps get webapps working?
[12:57] <czajkowski> nope james is gone for lunch
[12:57] <popey> looks like "unity-webapps" is the one missing
[12:58] <kvarley> Is it just me or is Unity more gorgeous than usual?
[12:58] <czajkowski> I think he was installing stuff that was missing
[12:58] <popey> "unity-webapps" will pull in what you need
[12:58] <czajkowski> compiz--
[12:58] <popey> just checked on my quantal desktop
[12:58] <popey> heh
[12:58] <czajkowski> popey: does webaps working on 12.10
[12:59] <popey> yes
[12:59] <popey> "unity-webapps" install that and make sure you have restarted your session and use chromium
[12:59] <popey> you should be able to login to fb or twitter, and get a prompt at the top to "integrate" with the desktop
[12:59] <popey> and then lock an icon to launcher for fb / twitter
[12:59] <popey> and be able to alt-tab to fb
[13:02] <davmor2> popey: do you happen to have a usb headset knocking about?
[13:02] <czajkowski> hmm intersiting
[13:02] <popey> i do davmor2
[13:04] <davmor2> popey: play a track in RB, plug in your headset, audio settings set the audio to the headset. Unplug the headset reboot, plug in the headset and play a track note the audio settings still say speaker even though it is now playing from the headset :)
[13:06] <popey> it doesn't switch when i first plug in
[13:07] <popey> gonna have to test more later, off out
[13:07] <czajkowski> popey: so to get webapps installed on 12.10 is it a ppa I need to install ?
[13:10] <penguin42> wth do energy companies have such broken websites
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> because working websites cost moneys
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> and spending moneys is evil
[13:12] <davmor2> penguin42: cause real users aren't meant to use them
[13:13] <AlanBell> they just have to be functional enough that price comparison websites can scrape them
[13:14] <AlanBell> then they won't dare change them unless they break the linkage
[13:14] <penguin42> edf's won't take a reading, and scottish power's just won't respond at all
[13:15]  * StevenR finds the British Gas website functional enough
[13:29]  * penguin42 suspects they have a nasty habit of doing maintenance on their live systems
[13:38] <czajkowski> Mez: many folks at your UGJ
[13:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: 3 today, 4 yesterday
[13:45] <czajkowski> cool
[13:53] <davmor2> popey: I got this but to record in the end https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1047473 you'll need to play the video in totem though FF doesn't like it
[13:54] <czajkowski> bet add on in thunderbird ever.............bugmail 2.0
[13:54] <czajkowski> install
[13:54] <czajkowski> click on a bug in your inbox
[13:54] <czajkowski> and magic
[13:56] <davmor2> czajkowski: you bet on add-ons
[13:56] <czajkowski> it's soo frickin handy
[13:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: you down in coventry ?
[13:57] <davmor2> no I'm across in coventry
[13:57] <davmor2> and up from you :P
[13:58] <czajkowski> want to do a hangout
[13:59] <davmor2> set it up and we'll think about it :D
[14:01] <czajkowski> ok
[14:02] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f62d22a92ed855624be306e8ab1c83e570c5eda5?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[14:02] <czajkowski> join..............
[14:04] <czajkowski> davmor2: com on
[14:05] <davmor2> mez is just setting up a machine with the projector
[14:08] <AlanBell> audio is a disaster
[14:08] <AlanBell> all I can hear is a stream of fecks
[14:10] <davmor2> no thats just czajkowski
[14:10] <AlanBell> yeah, every word that isn't feck is all broken up and incomprehensible
[14:10] <AlanBell> arguably that is still just czajkowski
[14:11] <davmor2> AlanBell: that's cause czajkowski shouts feck and whispers everything else
[14:11] <AlanBell> but I think a microphone that isn't welded to the speakers might help somewhat
[14:12] <davmor2> hahahahahaha
[14:22] <AlanBell> built in microphones on laptops are not very good :(
[14:23] <penguin42> so google+ gives me a 'install plugin' from a non https page with a non https download to pull a .deb - that's a bit nasty
[14:24] <Laney> this is painful
[14:24] <Laney> 2012 eh
[14:26] <AlanBell> I thought canonical peeps use hangouts all the time
[14:27]  * AlanBell downloads the daily live iso zsync thingie
[14:28] <davmor2> MOO!!!!!!
[14:28] <AlanBell> which one is davmor2?
[14:28] <davmor2> AlanBell: I do on my precise machine at home
[14:28] <davmor2> AlanBell:  i'm waving
[14:28] <AlanBell> I see you waving
[14:29] <davmor2> AlanBell: how are the chickens?
[14:30] <davmor2> czajkowski: it goes with the job
[14:40] <Mez> Laney: you're seriously having some cam problems there
[14:41] <davmor2> Mez: I don't know what you mean it's a great shot of czajkowski forehead
[14:41] <Mez> It might be useful to have the cam and the mic on the same machine... so we don't get focused to black when you talk.
[14:48] <czajkowski> I've switched mine off as machine is getting hot
[14:48] <BigRedS> Should've got a macbook air...
[14:50] <czajkowski> hmm not sure I've gotten these webapps thingymebobby working
[14:52] <Laney> Mez: it's off
[14:53] <frango> hi guys, i'm new here
[14:53] <AlanBell> hi frango
[14:54] <frango> i cam with a question
[14:54] <frango> came*
[14:54] <Laney> needs moar aircon
[14:55] <frango> i looked on canonicals website for ubuntu jobs but they're all kinda high level
[14:55] <frango> i was wondering if anyone knew if there were any uk based low level jobs working with ubuntu?
[14:55] <penguin42> frango: Well, don't ever stop what's listed on a site stop you from submitting a CV
[14:56] <frango> yeah i was looking for a proper place to send my cv
[14:56] <frango> but i couldnt find anything
[14:56] <frango> lots of links to IRC though :P
[14:56] <davmor2> frango: you'd need to apply for something and then it is logged
[14:57] <frango> so you think if i apply for any of those jobs they will just keep my CV for other positions?
[14:57] <czajkowski> BigRedS: http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/77153502/
[14:57] <czajkowski> Laney: http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/events/77153502/
[14:58] <davmor2> AlanBell: prod just checking your alive as you don't seem to of move for 10 minutes :D
[14:58] <czajkowski> james1: ^^^ in case you're interested
[14:59] <penguin42> frango: Well there's never harm in applying to places - especially if you're honest; i.e. say what you were looking for
[15:01] <frango> ok
[15:01] <frango> thanks for the encouragement
[15:02] <frango> does anyone here work with ubuntu?
[15:03] <czajkowski> frango: some work and many use it every day
[15:05] <frango> i used it on my work pc when i wasnt meant to haha and i use it on almost all of my stuff
[15:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: have we lost london altogether now?
[15:06] <czajkowski> yap
[15:07] <davmor2> HA HAAAA!
[15:15] <frango> lost london?
[15:15] <frango> i hope not, i live there
[15:15] <davmor2> http://t.co/LaMAGNHa
[15:16] <czajkowski> james__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Installing
[15:29] <AlanBell> yay, I have a USB with Ubuntu on it, and a computer and a keyboard and speakers
[15:30] <czajkowski> yay
[15:38]  * BigRedS *nearly* has a 12.10 install to test things in
[15:38] <czajkowski> *nearly*
[15:38] <BigRedS> yeah, only 83°C too!
[15:47] <davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:47] <czajkowski> booo
[15:52] <Mez> davmor2: do you see THIS?
[15:53] <Mez> czajkowski: apparently davmor2's server is ignoring you :)
[15:53] <Mez> maybe you have to hilight him ?
[15:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: :P :P :P
[15:55] <czajkowski> davmor2: HELLO!!
[15:56] <davmor2> czajkowski: Hello what time you guys knocking off?
[15:59] <czajkowski> 5:30 I think
[15:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: you're a great organiser aren't you :D
[15:59] <czajkowski> feck off
[16:00] <AlanBell> anyone got the daily live to actually run the installer at all?
[16:00] <Mez> I got yesterdays to
[16:02] <AlanBell> lets try the beta1 image
[16:02]  * AlanBell downloads
[16:07] <xnox> Daily from today or yesterday?
[16:07] <xnox> The today one should be ok.....
[16:07] <xnox> it it managed to build....
[16:07] <AlanBell> today
[16:07] <AlanBell> yeah, but ubiquity doesn't run
[16:07] <AlanBell> on hardware or virtualbox
[16:09] <AlanBell> the installer encountered an unrecoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or try installing again.
[16:11] <AlanBell> ubiquity does run from the desktop, but I can't usefully test it from there
[16:12] <davmor2> Bye guys
[16:13] <xnox> Hmm....
[16:13] <xnox> AlanBell: thanks.
[16:21]  * AlanBell copies the beta1 to an sd card
[16:30] <AlanBell> beta1 works, daily doesn't
[16:31] <AlanBell> well, kind of works
[16:31] <AlanBell> ubiquity runs, I can't press the install button
[16:43] <AlanBell> tried again and it worked, think I can get to the end of the installer without using the mouse
[16:43] <AlanBell> will do a video later I think
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> Hmm
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> toggling "click to focus" (focus follows mouse) doesn't stick
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> and it doesn't DO anything either
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> in 12.10
[17:25] <AlanBell> does mac os x do focus follows mouse?
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> no
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> but it doesn't offer the option either
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> also..
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> unity != macos
[17:27] <AlanBell> then Ubuntu is designed not to support it :)
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> it worked. Now it doesn't
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> and I can't figure out where Unity/compiz settings are
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1047929
[17:33]  * MartijnVdS pokes popey 
[17:35] <AlanBell> so, I need to record from webcam and audio, what do I use to do that?
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> google hangout ;)
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> or just youtube -- it has a "Record me" feature
[17:37] <AlanBell> guvcview, thats what I wanted
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> but still
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> where ARE unity/compiz settings?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> there seem to be some in gconf, but I heard that's Old and Deprecated
[17:38] <AlanBell> ccsm unity plugin?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> and dconf has a few, I heard that's just as deprecated
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I want to know where ccsm stores its settings
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> where on disk (or in which tool)
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> ah
[17:40] <Laney> is there a reasonable meatspace place to buy a new PSU?
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> dconf uses gsettings which is where the settings really are.. and if you find the right spot in there (/org/gnome/desktop/wm/preferences)
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> you CAN set focus-follows-mouse
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1042041
[17:41] <AlanBell> Laney: PC world does them
[17:41] <Laney> for a reasonable price?
[17:42] <AlanBell> probably not very reasonable
[17:42] <AlanBell> or totenham court road
[17:42]  * Laney is on t'way back already
[17:43] <Laney> maplin?
[17:48] <Laney> maybe i'll just order it online
[17:49] <Laney> missus has prime
[17:54] <AlanBell> maybe I will re-do that recording when my kids stop screaming at each other
[19:33] <AlanBell> any time now they will stop screaming
[19:35] <jacobw> make a point of recording them :)
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> They weren't even quiet to watch DINOSAURS on a SPACESHIP!?
[19:35] <Laney> someone else said that on my twitter
[19:35] <Laney> dr who reference?
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> Laney: That's the name (and content ;)) of the new Who episode
[19:37] <Laney> i see
[19:38] <Laney> i'm disinterested, except for the pond
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> lots of ponds in this one
[19:42] <christel> yar, queen pond \o
[19:42] <christel> she's mighty cute
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> Yes!
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> Though I didn't mind the girl from last week either </spoiler-free-ish>
[19:45] <christel> yeah she's pretty cute for a dalek ;)
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> christel: and from what I've heard, we're going to see more of her around Christmas :)
[19:47] <christel> indeed! wrapped in a ribbon :D
[19:47] <christel> i look forward to this
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> "Christmas of the Daleks", "CE-LE-BRATE! CE-LE-BRATE!!!"
[19:49] <brobostigon> lol
[19:49] <brobostigon> i know that feeling from somewhere.
[19:56] <popey> ola
[19:57] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Which of course they hold on October 31st?
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes, because that's Dec 25
[20:00] <penguin42> indeed
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> eww.. "Music from a Dell"
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> *changes channel*
[20:20] <mikehbb> hey so i just installed ubuntu on my laptop but its slow slower then when i had windows 7 can someone help me ?
[20:22] <penguin42> mikehbb: It's a bit vague; the best thing is to try and find an example of something in particular that's slower
[20:23] <mikehbb> ok so like on youtube i watch a vid and when i try to change to the next vid it gets stuck and it even takes more time ti turn on
[20:23] <mikehbb> when i lunch google chorme it takes sometime to load
[20:24] <penguin42> mikehbb: ok, do you know what type of graphics card you have?
[20:24] <mikehbb> i never had a problem with windows 7 but everybody told me ubuntu was way better and bla bla bla
[20:24] <mikehbb> not rellay but with windows 7 i was not haveing a problem at all
[20:25] <penguin42> mikehbb: Sure; so one thing you can try is to check whether there are any 'additional drivers' that aren't installed that might be faster for some graphics cards - erm I can't remember where that option is, somewhere under teh settings
[20:26] <mikehbb> and how do i check that ?
[20:27] <popey> press the big button in the top left
[20:27] <popey> and type "driver" in it
[20:27] <popey> click "Additional Drivers"
[20:29] <mikehbb> ok it says something about a driver that is installed but not in use
[20:29] <mikehbb> the driver is called modem something :(
[20:29] <penguin42> yeh forget that - modem is irrelevant
[20:30] <mikehbb> so then ?
[20:31] <penguin42> yeh, then it's a bit more tricky to figure out - 'sluggish' takes a lot more understanding of tools and stuff to figure out
[20:33] <mikehbb> so ????
[20:33] <penguin42> mikehbb: I can't really suggest much for 'sluggish' I'm afraid that are easy for you to try
[20:34] <mikehbb> si am going to have to buy windows 7 that is about 320 dollers
[20:34] <mikehbb> so*
[20:35] <popey> thats quite an extreme way to deal with the issue
[20:35] <mikehbb> so can someone help me then ?
[20:35] <popey> what spec is the machine?
[20:35] <AlanBell> what laptop is it?
[20:36] <mikehbb> hp
[20:36] <penguin42> mikehbb: More details - cpu? Ram? model?
[20:36] <popey> press the button in the top right and type "details"
[20:36] <popey> click the result
[20:36] <popey> it will tell you the spec of the machine
[20:36] <popey> er
[20:36] <popey> top left :D
[20:37]  * popey swaps his hands over
[20:37]  * penguin42 is glad that's not just me
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> yours is an X220 right?
[20:37] <popey> MartijnVdS, mine is, yes
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> ooh, I can only select an X230
[20:38] <popey> yeah, 220 is discontinued i think
[20:39] <mikehbb> its has 3 gigs of ram intel cpu 2400 @ 1.83 X2
[20:39] <ging> popey: does that details program run in the command line?
[20:39] <popey> ging, no, but you can get that data from the command line
[20:39] <mikehbb> huh?
[20:39] <popey> mikehbb, ok, so core i5
[20:40] <ging> popey: in a nice easy to read format like that?
[20:40] <mikehbb> yes
[20:40] <popey> ging, no
[20:40] <popey> ging, see /proc/cpuinfo and /proc/meminfo
[20:41] <popey> mikehbb, is it a stock Ubuntu install? and what version of Ubuntu is it?
[20:41] <mikehbb> i just download last night and i alreay update it
[20:42] <mikehbb> here something its says that it doesnt know what kind of viedo card i have
[20:43] <popey> what hp model of laptop is it?
[20:44] <mikehbb> nc6400
[20:45] <popey> interesting, hp website suggests it has a core 2 duo..?
[20:45] <mikehbb> yes sir
[20:45] <popey> ah, so not a core i5
[20:46] <mikehbb> nope sorry
[20:47] <mikehbb> my bad
[20:47] <popey> yeah, not susprised it's a bit slow
[20:49] <mikehbb> but with windows 7 the newest version it was running great
[20:49] <mikehbb> and its more then slow it even frezzes sometimes
[20:51] <AlanBell> should be OK on that laptop, but not dramatically quick
[20:51] <mikehbb> like right before i got in this chat, i was watching a youtube vid full screen then when i pressed escaped it just froze
[20:52] <AlanBell> ok, but it did play a video full screen?
[20:52] <mikehbb> yes it did
[20:52] <mikehbb> but when i exit full screen it froze
[20:52] <AlanBell> flash can be a bit crashy, that isn't a performance problem
[20:53] <mikehbb> and with windows 7 that nevered happend :(
[20:53] <AlanBell> adobe have basically deprecated flash now
[20:53] <ali1234> core 2 duo is slow now?
[20:54] <popey> it's a 6 year old laptop
[20:54] <penguin42> popey: But if he's saying win7 does it OK then there is no reason for Ubuntu to be slower than it
[20:55]  * hamitron even replaced his c2d over a year ago
[20:55] <AlanBell> no reason to be faster either, generally performance is similar as it is doing similar stuff
[20:55] <mikehbb> nope core 2 duo is not all at all this is my laptop in my desktop i have a Phenom II X6 1100T 'Black Edition' (3.3GHz, 125W, 3MB total dedicated L2 cache, 6MB L3 cache, 4000MHz HyperTransport™ bus, socket AM3) and its 16 ram and it has windows 7 and i would still use my laptop so that i can use it anywhere i want i didnt see the big changes
[20:56] <penguin42> you're running on my c2d - it mostly just runs irc and a bit of web browsing though; and I run MATE on it - which is fine on the hardware
[20:58] <AlanBell> mikehbb: lets get some numbers, try http://www.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/driver.html
[20:58] <mikehbb> i know people that have a pentium 4 and have 256 of ram and there useing ubuntu and they say its great so
[20:59] <ali1234> they must be using an old version
[20:59] <popey> they may be using an older leaner version
[20:59] <ali1234> like really old - 2006
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> 	tx bitrate: 300.0 MBit/s MCS 15 40Mhz short GI
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> woo, 5GHz
[21:00] <mikehbb> so your saying that ubuntu is getting bigger in ram and spec to use?
[21:00] <penguin42> mikehbb: Yes it's getting a bit chubbier in it's older age
[21:00] <AlanBell> sure, it takes advantage of newer processors and graphics cards
[21:00] <popey> yup
[21:00] <ali1234> lol
[21:00] <popey> min spec these days is 1GB RAM
[21:00] <ali1234> "takes advantage"
[21:00] <penguin42> mikehbb: Two things, if you're running an old machine try lubuntu or xubuntu - they use lower end desgktop environments, or try MINT (that's mostly Ubuntu with a different cover on)
[21:00] <hamitron> I love the way you put it AlanBell
[21:00] <hamitron> :)
[21:01] <mikehbb> i have 3 gigs of ram
[21:01] <czajkowski> Laney: lovely reply on the thread!
[21:02] <hamitron> as software gets more "clever", it tends to need more resources sadly
[21:02] <hamitron> :/
[21:02] <GaryLittlemore> can anyone tell me what network this irc is on?
[21:02] <penguin42> GaryLittlemore: freenode
[21:02] <AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: freenode
[21:02] <Laney> czajkowski: it came to me on the train
[21:02] <GaryLittlemore> okay thanks all
[21:02] <czajkowski> Laney: sums ot up very well
[21:02] <czajkowski> *it
[21:03] <ali1234> czajkowski: any news on PPAs and CoC?
[21:03] <mikehbb> For upgrading]  While the minimum memory requirement for 32bit is 384 MB, a minimum of 512 MB is needed
[21:04] <mikehbb> that is what the page on ubuntu says it needs
[21:04] <mikehbb> so wtf
[21:04] <mikehbb> ?
[21:04] <ali1234> did yo install 32 bit?
[21:04] <n1md4> hello.  I've recently upgraded my mythtv box, and now lightdm has switch to autologin and only as a guest session.  Any ideas?
[21:04] <hamitron> have you tried running any other software on the minimum spec? it really is the bare minimum :/
[21:05] <czajkowski> ali1234: it's all good
[21:05] <mikehbb> http://www.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9.1/sunspider-0.9.1/results.html?%7B%22v%22:%20%22sunspider-0.9.1%22,%20%223d-cube%22:%5B21,22,21,22,20,20,20,21,19,22%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B19,19,19,19,19,19,18,20,19,20%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B25,27,27,27,32,26,25,27,25,28%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B4,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,3%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B20,20,21,20,21,19,19,20,22,21%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B14,13,13,14,13,12,12,14,13,14%5D,%
[21:05] <mikehbb> i got the resulats for that page someone said to try
[21:05] <mikehbb> [21:06] <AlanBell> wow, that is quite some URL it gives you
[21:06] <ali1234> it's not going to be a CPU issue
[21:06] <AlanBell> ok, so 442 in total, great
[21:06] <ali1234> it's going to be some hardware problem
[21:06] <czajkowski> mikehbb: oi short URL or pastbin!
[21:06] <ali1234> either graphics or audio
[21:07] <czajkowski> ali1234: in the beginning you were either forced to accept the PPA terms of use,
[21:07] <AlanBell> 591.2ms for me, but I am encoding a video at the same time
[21:07] <czajkowski> or sign the Ubuntu CoC to create a PPA.
[21:07] <ali1234> first thing i would try is unity 2d if it still exists
[21:07] <czajkowski> A long time ago (at least 3 years), we removed that
[21:07] <czajkowski> restriction that was making the PPA creation more complex than it needed
[21:07] <czajkowski> to be
[21:07] <ali1234> czajkowski: i tried to create a PPA a couple of months ago and the only option was to sign the CoC
[21:07] <mikehbb> so?//?????????////
[21:07] <AlanBell> so your laptop is faster than mine on that benchmark
[21:08] <czajkowski> ali1234: I checked it wwith the devs
[21:08] <czajkowski> it's fine
[21:08] <czajkowski> as I think you agree to the way of a PPA
[21:08] <czajkowski> I've not set one up
[21:08] <ali1234> i did see that bug about it being fixed from like 2010
[21:08] <AlanBell> just trying to find some actual comparatives to quantify any sluggishness
[21:08] <ali1234> but i think that was just technically making it possible. i'm certain that the PPA creation system forced you to sign the CoC up to say, three months ago. (when was the app contest?)
[21:09] <ali1234> and there was a discussion on the ML about dropping the CoC requirement in feb 2012, long after the bug was "fixed"
[21:09] <ali1234> but the discussion was just a RFC and there was no decision made on it
[21:09] <mikehbb> you see <allanbell> its not my computer its ubuntu so then how can i fix it ?
[21:09] <ali1234> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg09034.html
[21:10] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/673015
[21:10] <czajkowski> ali1234: it's saturday I'm not working :)
[21:10] <ali1234> the bug was "fix released" nov 2010
[21:11] <ali1234> well, ok, which mailing list should i direct this to?
[21:11] <czajkowski> I raised it on lp-dev during the week and it was replied to
[21:11] <mikehbb> ?
[21:11] <AlanBell> mikehbb: well if you are playing full screen flash videos it probably isn't a graphics problem
[21:12] <czajkowski> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-dev
[21:12] <mikehbb> so then but its not only that if i click like on firefox it takes some time to open up
[21:12] <AlanBell> how long?
[21:12] <mikehbb> like 15 or 10 sec
[21:12] <AlanBell> that doesn't sound too bad
[21:13] <AlanBell> takes about 4 seconds for me but I have an SSD rather than hard disk
[21:14] <mikehbb> ok it my desktop it doesnt even take half a sec
[21:14] <czajkowski> ali1234: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08934.html  is the thread
[21:14] <ali1234> no, that's the one i just linked to from feb
[21:15] <mikehbb> and when i had windows 7 onmy laptop the oen i am hving the problem right now it would take like 2 sec
[21:15] <czajkowski> ali1234: that's the discussion......
[21:15] <ali1234> yeah. the end result of the discussion, afaict, is that the requirement stays at the request of mark shuttleworth
[21:16] <czajkowski> ali1234: have you read the last comment on the thread...which was sent a few days ago. please see that comment.
[21:17] <ali1234> ok, found it
[21:18] <mikehbb> so i guess no one can help me ?
[21:18] <ali1234> czajkowski: ok, so the reply made to you is blatantly wrong. i will follow up on this, thanks.
[21:20] <popey> mikehbb, I'd be interested to see what the machine is doing when you're doing some things..
[21:20] <popey> running something like "top" in a terminal
[21:20] <popey> or "vmstat 5" for a while
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> iotop as well
[21:20] <popey> see where it's bottlenecked
[21:20] <mikehbb> and what is that ?
[21:20] <popey> top is like system monitor in windows
[21:20] <popey> shows the processes in order of cpu utilisation
[21:20] <popey> also shows memory usage, swap etc
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> "iotop" shows which processes are using how much I/O bandwidth
[21:21] <popey> maybe open a terminal and just run top, then press "q" to quit and copy and paste it into a pastebin, and give us the link
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> vmstats shows details about memory usage, every 5 seconds (that's what the 5 is for)
[21:21] <popey> (rather than paste the whole thing here)
[21:22] <mikehbb> so in english how do u do that ?
[21:22] <popey> do which bit?
[21:23] <popey> hang on, I'll make a quick youtube video for you...
[21:23] <mikehbb> you must be haveing fun looking at someone stupid that doesnt know how to use ubuntu
[21:23] <popey> nope
[21:23] <popey> not at all
[21:30] <ali1234> hmm this old problem
[21:30] <ali1234> how to reply to a mailing list post from before you subscribed?
[21:30] <Laney> can you get the mbox?
[21:30] <Laney> or get someone who has it to bounce it to you
[21:30] <ali1234> i don't know; it's on launchpad
[21:31] <popey> yeah, launchpad sucks for mailing lists :(
[21:31] <popey> drat, audio didnt record
[21:33] <mikehbb> what happend to the vid ?
[21:33] <popey> mikehbb, the audio didn't record..
[21:34] <popey> ok, so what you do is this:-
[21:34] <popey> 1. press CTRL+ALT+T to open a terminal
[21:34] <popey> 2. in the terminal type "top" then press enter
[21:34] <popey> 3. Wait for a bit, then do whatever it is that is slow/sluggish.
[21:35] <popey> 4. Watch the window running top and see what is at the top of the list of the bottom section
[21:35] <popey> 5. optionally pause the top display with CTRL+S, (resume it with CTRL+Q) and copy/paste the contents of the window into http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and give us the url to look at
[21:36] <popey> optionally also open a terminal and run "vmstat 5"  and leave it running for a few minutes, and do something that feels slow/sluggish and do the same with that window - copy the entire contents to paste.ubuntu.com
[21:37] <ali1234> does anyone here have a launchpad account and not in any teams and not signed the CoC?
[21:38] <popey> yes
[21:38] <ali1234> and can you make a PPA?
[21:38] <popey> lemme see if i recall the password :D
[21:38] <ali1234> i swear blind that i tried to make one for the app showdown and it didn't work
[21:39] <ali1234> the only thing that changed on my account since then is i joined a couple of teams
[21:39] <ali1234> so i may have inherited PPA permission from one of those
[21:40] <popey> a damnit, can't remember the email address for an account
[21:40] <popey> hmm
[21:40] <ali1234> the only one that isn't an open team is trublr
[21:40] <popey> czajkowski, are you able to find out the email addy for a user?
[21:40] <popey> and pm it to me
[21:40] <popey> hmm, this sounds more dodgy than it is :)
[21:41] <ali1234> what's the launchpad test server called again?
[21:41] <popey> edge.launchpad.net
[21:41] <popey> and staging i think
[21:42] <ali1234> ohyeah, edge. but it's synced. and staging is down
[21:42] <Laney> that does sound dodgy
[21:42] <popey> woohoo, found it in my email
[21:42] <Laney> if someone has hidden their email address ...
[21:42] <mikehbb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1193510/
[21:42] <popey> Laney, but it's me
[21:42] <popey> anyway, doesn't matter, found it
[21:42] <Laney> hmmmmmm
[21:43] <Laney> i have an account like that actually
[21:44] <popey> ok, so this is mine ali1234 https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley
[21:44] <popey> not in any groups, not signed the coc
[21:45] <Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of Use."
[21:45] <popey> i just made a PPA, had to tick the box
[21:45] <ali1234> ok. so that's new
[21:45] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley/+archive/ppa
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[21:45] <ali1234> i'm sure it wasn't possible like that 3 months ago
[21:45] <brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[21:46] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[21:46] <mikehbb> There the link
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not waiting for the national anthem? :)
[21:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes.
[21:46] <ali1234> mikehbb: doesn't look like the PCU is overloaded
[21:46] <ali1234> er, CPU
[21:46] <ali1234> as i suspected
[21:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i prefferred rule britannia,
[21:47] <czajkowski> 22:45 < Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of  Use."
[21:47] <czajkowski>  EXACTLY
[21:47] <czajkowski> ali1234: look francis who replied to my follow up in the PM of the LP team so he does tend to know what he's talking about
[21:47] <czajkowski> ;)
[21:47] <ali1234> ok. so 3 months ago, that tick box didn't exist
[21:48] <ali1234> and trying to create a PPA took you to an error message "you have not signed the CoC"
[21:48] <brobostigon> rule britannia, is definatly our unofficial, or my national anthem.
[21:48] <mikehbb> HA i know its not my cpu or ram its ubuntu i been trying to tell u :(
[21:49] <popey> mikehbb, I'm not saying it is your cpu or ram
[21:49] <popey> I'm trying to help identify which process is eating the cpu/ram
[21:49] <MartijnVdS> iotop might help
[21:50] <MartijnVdS> if something is writing gigabytes to disk (or reading..) it will slow down the machine
[21:50] <ali1234> the cpu and ram is not being eaten tho :)
[21:50] <MartijnVdS> that happens :)
[21:50] <ali1234> doesn't look like pulseaudio problems either
[21:50] <ali1234> so main candidate is flaky graphics
[21:50] <MartijnVdS> ATI prop driver?
[21:50] <ali1234> perhaps you're running nouveau on a nvidia laptop chipset
[21:50] <ali1234> that's a pretty good way to destroy performance
[21:50] <brobostigon> in good design, I/O shouldnt affect cpu or ram directly.
[21:51] <brobostigon> i think
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in theory, you're right :)
[21:51] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[21:51] <ali1234> "if only linux was a good design"
[21:51] <mikehbb> nope its intel
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: however, in theory, theory and practice are identical
[21:51] <hamitron> and when was x86 a good design?
[21:51] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true,
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> mikehbb: anything specific that's slow?
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> mikehbb: specific web sites, plugins, etc.?
[21:52] <Laney> whyever is bbc hd showing a split screen of the proms?
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> Laney: 3D
[21:52] <Laney> wtf
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> Laney: that's how 3D looks on non-3d screens
[21:52] <Laney> get it awf my telly
[21:52] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
[21:52] <mikehbb> youtube
[21:52] <mikehbb> when i turn it on
[21:53] <mikehbb> when i click on fire fox o some icon its slow
[21:53] <mikehbb> nothing kompred to windows 7
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> mikehbb: "some icon in firefox"?
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> Which one, specifically
[21:53] <mikehbb> no when i lunch firefox
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> and how slow is slow
[21:53] <mikehbb> but i use google chorme
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> is it "a bit slower", or "unbearable, takes 5 seconds to respond to a click"
[21:54] <mikehbb> it takes 5 sec to respond!
[21:54] <hamitron> better than 10 at least
[21:56] <MartijnVdS> mikehbb: just to start? and is it fast after it's started?
[21:58] <mikehbb> no when i try to close it
[21:58] <mikehbb> it does the same thing
[21:58] <MartijnVdS> I don't recognise the symptoms..
[21:58] <MartijnVdS> but maybe I'm not understanding your explanations correctly :)
[21:59] <ali1234> mikehbb: in your log firefox is not running
[22:03] <mikehbb> ok look let me make it more easy
[22:03] <mikehbb> if i watch a vid on youtube on full screen when i try to close it lags and its doesnt close til after 10 sec
[22:04] <MartijnVdS> how do you close it? Press ESC on the keyboard?
[22:04] <popey> not a lot we can do about flash :(
[22:04] <ali1234> fullscreen flash is broken on linux
[22:07] <mikehbb> tss i guess ill have to buy windows 7 agian
[22:07] <mikehbb> thanks anyway
[22:10] <hamitron> doesn't youtube use html5?
[22:10] <popey> it can
[22:11] <mikehbb> got say ubuntu sucks never gonna use it agian or tell anyone to use it
[22:11] <popey> great, thanks
[22:13]  * StevenR wonders if there's an automated testing framework out there that could be used to do WAN fault diagnosis
[22:14] <stgraber> StevenR: http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/ might help
[22:14] <StevenR> (I don't mean something like nagios - We need something that can be triggered manually to isolate the source of a problem and provide advice to our service desk on what to do next)
[22:15] <stgraber> that one is a java app talking to a server in berkeley doing a variety of tests to detect buffering, window sizes, firewalling, proxying, ... kind of issues
[22:18] <czajkowski> popey: you did an amount of help
[22:20] <StevenR> I'm looking for something that can effectively follow a flowchart of diagnostic steps "can I ping the router? No? Can I login to the switch stack and telnet onto the router from there? Yes? Can I ping out from the router? No? Ask the site contact to power cycle the NTE. "
[22:20] <StevenR> It feels like there should be a software testing framework or something that I can write the tests and flow for... and be done. :)
[22:21] <popey> yeah, I've considered similar
[22:21] <penguin42> StevenR: Have you looked at something like nagios?
[22:22] <penguin42> StevenR: You should be able to set it up with a chain of all the things to test and I think you can have kind of a depends relationship between them
[22:23] <stgraber> penguin42: well, StevenR said he didn't want something like nagios, so I guess he considered it :)
[22:24] <penguin42> oh, didn't spot that
[22:24] <czajkowski> popey: you on 12.10
[22:24] <popey> czajkowski, I have a 12.10 machine here, yes
[22:24] <StevenR> penguin42: I want to run the tests on demand (or rather, I want the servicedesk to do this, so I don't have to) ... running them all the time would place too much load on site routers
[22:24] <czajkowski> popey: can you look at your power indicator when its plugged in, what does the icon look like?
[22:24] <penguin42> StevenR: I wonder if something like nagios can just do an on-demand?
[22:25] <popey> czajkowski, its a desktop
[22:25] <czajkowski> i just want to se if yours shows that it's charging when it's plugged in
[22:25] <czajkowski> mine doesnt
[22:26] <czajkowski> I suspect a regression again
[22:26] <czajkowski> just has the battery symbol
[22:27] <StevenR> penguin42: it depends... it would need to be able to report things back to the user to say "ask the site contact to do this"
[22:27] <penguin42> StevenR: Oh I see what you mean - you want kind of a flowchart following thing?
[22:28] <popey> czajkowski, i can't make the icon appear on my desktop...
[22:28] <popey> czajkowski, oh, i have a netbook too, one mo
[22:28] <StevenR> penguin42: basically, every time we're alerted to a WAN fault, I end up getting dragged into diagnostics to tell the servicedesk what to do next
[22:28] <penguin42> StevenR: Yeh
[22:29] <penguin42> StevenR: How about just a webpage with a set of interconnected links ?
[22:29] <StevenR> penguin42: and it's boring, and very disrupting, particularly when half the time it's "their generator's being moved again"
[22:30] <StevenR> penguin42: so yeah, I want something to follow a flowchart, and then give the servicedesk some instructions on what to do next
[22:31] <penguin42> StevenR: I'd say just a web page with links on it and markers so that you click one and it moves to the next part of the flowchart
[22:31] <penguin42> although you want them to record each and every thing they've said/decision they've made
[22:31] <popey> czajkowski, i have a charging icon
[22:31] <StevenR> penguin42: that's the point - I don't want them to make any decisions
[22:31] <czajkowski> popey: feck
[22:32] <popey> what does yours look like?
[22:32] <stgraber> czajkowski: I also see a "battery full" icon even though I'm plugged in and it's charging
[22:32] <penguin42> StevenR: Well you're going to ask things like 'Is ____ on' and when they finally call you and they get all the way through the script you're going to want a summary of everything they answered as they went through including the 'not sure - we think so because ....'
[22:32] <czajkowski> stgraber: ah  I see it's full also, but usually you used to see a lightening rod through it to note it was charging
[22:32] <stgraber> czajkowski: I believe on 12.04 I'd have the same icon but with a power symbol on top of it to indicate that it's plugged
[22:32] <czajkowski> I don't as of the upgrade this morning
[22:33] <popey> i blame jbicha :0
[22:33] <stgraber> right, so we're seeing the same change
[22:33] <popey> i dont see the issue, but i have 301MB of updates to do
[22:33] <StevenR> penguin42: not quite. Basically, using a combination of ping and telnet (which I can automate with expect), I can diagnose things right down to "this NTE has crashed. power cycle it"
[22:33] <popey> lots of libgnome stuff
[22:33] <StevenR> or whatever
[22:33] <stgraber> I only moved to 12.10 last weekend so I never saw it look right on 12.10
[22:34] <popey> interesting
[22:34] <czajkowski> popey: stgraber 22:45 < Laney> i have to tick this "I have read and accepted the PPA Terms of  Use."
[22:34] <czajkowski> popey: stgraber http://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/244564289355137024/photo/1
[22:34] <penguin42> StevenR: Well there is dejagnu that's the testing framework used on a lot of GNU tools - it's not very pretty though
[22:34] <StevenR> penguin42: I don't want the SD(servicedesk) to actually ping stuff or telnet onto routers and switches. The tool needs to do that and then advise them of what to do.
[22:35] <stgraber> czajkowski: yep, same here
[22:35] <czajkowski> filing bug now
[22:35] <czajkowski> once I figure out which indicator to put it agains
[22:35] <czajkowski> t
[22:36] <penguin42> StevenR: I'd still look at Nagios - I'm fairly sure you could trigger it once to generate a summary
[22:36] <Laney> power
[22:36] <czajkowski> yeah
[22:36] <czajkowski> doing it now
[22:36] <penguin42> StevenR: Or use some of it's scripts to do most of the leg work
[22:36] <czajkowski> Laney: that makes 7 :D
[22:37] <Laney> gotta love that karma
[22:38] <czajkowski> Laney: you have no idea how many times a week I get asked why peoples karma hasn't increased straight away
[22:38] <czajkowski> people watch it like hawks
[22:39] <txwikinger> Did anybody notice that the Ubuntu-uk planet does not update the feed anymore?
[22:39] <Laney> apparently not
[22:40] <Laney> broken by the bacon
[22:40] <txwikinger> Yeah.. he always breaks stuff, isn't he?
[22:41] <czajkowski> stgraber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-power/+bug/1048041
[22:41] <AlanBell> txwikinger: ah yes, someone spotted that the other day, popey did you see the uk planet is broken
[22:41] <popey> nope
[22:41]  * popey checks
[22:42] <czajkowski> how does he break it ?
[22:42]  * AlanBell uploads a video of the installer
[22:42] <czajkowski> stgraber: please do be confirming!
[22:42] <txwikinger> czajkowski: Jono uses jedi forces to break things ;-)
[22:42] <MartijnVdS> nah
[22:43] <MartijnVdS> just regular Jono forces ;)
[22:43] <StevenR> penguin42: thanks, given me a few ideas :)
[22:43] <popey> ok, planet bot is dying
[22:43] <czajkowski> right I am all tested out
[22:43] <czajkowski> turning in
[22:43] <czajkowski> nn folks
[22:43] <MartijnVdS> \o
[22:44] <StevenR> stgraber: that icsi tool is cool. Not quite what I'm looking for, but close :) ... certainly its output presentation is decent :) thanks
[22:45] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1193600/
[22:54] <AlanBell> that is odd
[22:57] <AlanBell> that feed works in a planet here
[22:57] <AlanBell> http://www.planeta11y.org/testing/output/
[22:58] <AlanBell> it only has stuff from 2009 in it, maybe remove andrew price from the planet.ini, see if that fixes it
[22:59] <popey> txwikinger, yours barfs too
[22:59] <popey> as does zrmt
[22:59] <popey> i dont think its that feed
[22:59] <popey> ah, hang on
[23:00] <popey> its deadlocking
[23:00] <popey> ubuntuuk@www:~/planet-2.0$ ps aux | grep planet | wc -l
[23:00] <popey> 19
[23:01] <AlanBell> oh, it can't access the cache because previous instances have it open or something
[23:01] <popey> killed them all
[23:01] <popey> still barfs
[23:02] <AlanBell> nuke it from orbit, it is the only way to be sure
[23:02]  * popey bins caches
[23:03] <AlanBell> is there some kind of process or daemon for bsddb?
[23:04] <popey> sorted
[23:04] <popey> deleting the caches did it
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Opening Ubuntu Up To the World - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/09/06/opening-ubuntu-up-to-the-world/
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] On trying out operating systems in virtual machines - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/29975.html
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] No Upgrades from Precise Pangolin to Quantal Quetzal? - http://drupal7.txwikinger.me.uk/no-upgrades-precise-pangolin-quantal-quetzal%3F
[23:05] <AlanBell> heh, I think it is fixed :)
[23:06] <popey> :)
[23:11] <txwikinger> cool popey
[23:51] <mattt> weeee
[23:51] <pinky-> plop
[23:56] <mattt> pinky-: howzit?
[23:56] <pinky-> hi, I'm on the night-shift and about to watch a 2 hour recording of today F1 quailifys
[23:57] <pinky-> so all good - how's you?
[23:57] <mattt> so so i guess
[23:57] <mattt> where do you work?
[23:57] <pinky-> good good
[23:57] <pinky-> top secret ;)
[23:58] <penguin42> he justs wants to know so he can also spend his night shift watching F1
[23:58] <mattt> TESCO
[23:58] <pinky-> hehe
[23:58] <pinky-> I ended up working in a gas station
[23:58] <mattt> ah
[23:58] <pinky-> Frank Zappa
[23:58] <mattt> is that scary?
[23:59] <pinky-> hehe