| smartboyhw | len-dt: What are you working on now? | 03:42 |
|---|---|---|
| len-dt | I have been doing some recording. | 03:43 |
| smartboyhw | I have been building an ISO | 03:44 |
| len-dt | Sounds fun. | 03:44 |
| smartboyhw | Yeah the Ubuntu GNOME remix | 03:45 |
| len-dt | I'm thinking to leave that one alone till at least first release... maybe first LTS to look at it. | 03:46 |
| smartboyhw | HAHAHA | 03:46 |
| len-dt | I only have so much time to spend playing with distro building and priorities are studio then xubuntu. | 03:47 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: My priority is studio then ubuntu then xubuntu | 03:47 |
| len-dt | My first thought was to give holstein's line "ubuntustudio _is_ ubuntu" :) But I know what you mean. | 03:49 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: Yes.:) | 03:49 |
| smartboyhw | Yes "ubuntustudio _is_ Ubuntu with multimedia creation apps:) | 03:50 |
| smartboyhw | And xfce | 03:50 |
| smartboyhw | And xubuntu base | 03:51 |
| len-dt | Vanilla is Ubuntu with unity on top | 03:51 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: LOL | 03:51 |
| len-dt | The DE is actually a very small part of what Ubuntu is. | 03:52 |
| smartboyhw | Yes. | 03:52 |
| len-dt | But very visible. | 03:52 |
| smartboyhw | LOL | 03:52 |
| micahg | smartboyhw: the DE is part of the Ubuntu desktop product | 04:03 |
| len-dt | micahg, I have sent an email to Colin about our metas | 04:05 |
| micahg | len-dt: ok, I'll take a look at the diff when he uploads it so I can do stuff like this in thefuture | 04:05 |
| micahg | I just seem to be missing something | 04:05 |
| len-dt | It does seem odd that it doesn't just work. The graphics meta changed just fine. | 04:07 |
| smartboyhw | Am I wrong but then isn't there something known as Ubuntu Core which has no DE micahg? | 04:08 |
| micahg | smartboyhw: I didn't say anything about Ubuntu core, there are many difference projects under the umbrella of the Ubuntu project | 04:08 |
| micahg | err...products under the umbrella | 04:09 |
| len-dt | I don't think core is meant to be used on it's own though smartboyhw | 04:09 |
| len-dt | :) | 04:09 |
| smartboyhw | i don't know!!??!? | 04:09 |
| smartboyhw | Anyway what I know is that Ubuntu is the Ubuntu kernel with Unity that's all | 04:10 |
| len-dt | Without the repos with all the extra software, Ubuntu would not be where it is. | 04:11 |
| len-dt | It is all a part of it | 04:11 |
| micahg | no, that's the Ubuntu desktop product which a lot of people think of as Ubuntu | 04:11 |
| smartboyhw | Now I'm confused | 04:14 |
| micahg | Ubuntu is a project, this project has archives, lots of products are hosted in this archive | 04:14 |
| len-dt | smartboyhw, you might think of it like Lego. Someone could build a Lego truck. Is that truck Lego? or is it the parts the truck is made of? | 04:14 |
| smartboyhw | Lego??? I don't play lego, len-dt:( | 04:15 |
| * len-dt sometimes plays with Lego. | 04:15 | |
| len-dt | But you do know what it is. ? | 04:15 |
| smartboyhw | Yes | 04:16 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: How old are you to play Lego??? | 04:16 |
| len-dt | I have a 6 year old. I get to play with his. | 04:16 |
| smartboyhw | Ah alright | 04:16 |
| len-dt | No worries, I was not trying to make you any younger than you are. | 04:20 |
| smartboyhw | LOL | 04:21 |
| ailo | Anyone experienced quantal pulseaudio crashing now and then? | 08:38 |
| ailo | I need to test on other HW, cause it might HW related for me. PA crashes every now and then, and reinitializes volumes. My apps get stuck and need tp get | 08:39 |
| ailo | ..be restarted | 08:39 |
| ailo | Well, actually. Jack is fine all the time, only PA is having problems | 08:41 |
| ailo | smartboyhw: Ubuntu without the desktop is in the package ubuntu-minimal | 08:49 |
| falktx | hey | 09:03 |
| falktx | I'm wondering again - why is debian multimedia packages built with debug mode on? | 09:04 |
| ailo | falktx: I would ask Debian Multimedia Team, if the packages aren't built differently on Ubuntu | 09:07 |
| falktx | afaik they are not | 09:07 |
| falktx | I just saw some recent syncs | 09:07 |
| ailo | Interesting note. Wonder why they do that | 09:08 |
| falktx | is anyone here on their mailing list? | 09:11 |
| ailo | falktx: I am. I could ask them | 09:14 |
| ailo | falktx: I'm actually going to join that team later on. You ever thought about doing that? | 09:14 |
| falktx | I did once, but then I saw the limitations | 09:15 |
| ailo | falktx: limititations? | 09:15 |
| falktx | and all the hard work just for simple tasks | 09:15 |
| falktx | ailo: yes, if a piece of code doens't have a very clear license, they refuse to package it | 09:16 |
| falktx | I remember the audacious case | 09:16 |
| falktx | a plugin code was removed from the source tarball because it didn't have any header-comments | 09:16 |
| falktx | I though that was just crazy | 09:17 |
| ailo | To me that just sounds like making sure packages adhere to the Debian policy | 09:17 |
| falktx | yeah, that is the thing - I don't agree with that policy | 09:17 |
| falktx | linuxsampler exception rule still kills me | 09:18 |
| falktx | Ubuntu used to have java in the repos, it displayed the license when installing | 09:18 |
| falktx | why can't that be done too? | 09:18 |
| falktx | there are a lot of things that I don't agree with Debian, I guess that's the main reason why I haven't joined the team | 09:19 |
| ailo | You can either join Debian, and help improve it, or start your own Debian | 09:19 |
| ailo | You can't change something, if you are looking in from the outside | 09:20 |
| falktx | well, I started my separate project, as you know | 09:20 |
| ailo | falktx: Are you sure linux-sampler could not be packaged for Debian? There is a non-free repo after all | 09:21 |
| ailo | falktx: You mean, your PPA's | 09:21 |
| ailo | Yea, they are filling a purpose in deed | 09:21 |
| falktx | ailo: considering there is worst licenses then LS, I'm sure it could | 09:22 |
| falktx | *than | 09:22 |
| ailo | I've seen a bug report about packaging it, and no one was claiming it couldn't be done | 09:22 |
| ailo | On the report, that is | 09:23 |
| falktx | I think debian is just losing people's attention, not sure... | 09:23 |
| falktx | I know alession works in d-multimedia, but is there anyone else? | 09:24 |
| ailo | falktx: Anyone else from where? there are people there. And I don't think anyone is loosing attention to the foundation for anything Debian based | 09:24 |
| ailo | falktx: there's no reason why you can't do things on many levels you know | 09:25 |
| falktx | well, it's just my impression | 09:25 |
| ailo | There are reasons for the restrictions that Debian has. If they would change them, many would leave Debian | 09:25 |
| ailo | And you can build upon it, just like Ubuntu does, and Mint does off on Ubuntu | 09:26 |
| ailo | Like you do with your PPA's. Similar to Mint | 09:26 |
| ailo | So, I don't really see the problem | 09:26 |
| falktx | I see your point | 09:27 |
| ailo | You can't have a library of software representing free and open source software, if it's not being free and open source. | 09:27 |
| ailo | And surely, there are lot's of grey zones | 09:27 |
| ailo | Debian vanilla is 100% free. Even the kernel. | 09:27 |
| ailo | But they have a non-free repo | 09:28 |
| falktx | well, I think there's some firmware things that are not truly free | 09:28 |
| falktx | but that's being picky... :) | 09:28 |
| falktx | still, back to my main though - why do they have to build things in debug mode | 09:28 |
| ailo | falktx: Even in Debian vanilla? They took out all the firmware that wasn't and put them in different packages | 09:28 |
| falktx | ailo: could you ask on their ML ? | 09:29 |
| ailo | falktx: I'll do that | 09:29 |
| falktx | ailo: I mean the kernel, I read that at phoronix once. whatever that is a trust-worthy source... heh... | 09:29 |
| ailo | falktx: I don't know the specifics, but to my knowledge, all the non-free parts of the kernel were repackaged, and put into the non-free repo, so you can add them after installation | 09:30 |
| ailo | wifi drivers, etc | 09:30 |
| ailo | It's a pain, cause the installation freezes if you have a non-free wifi | 09:30 |
| falktx | ok | 09:31 |
| ailo | Ubuntu being less restrictive, just keeps it all in the kernel as is | 09:31 |
| falktx | I see, I'm just too used to Ubuntu I guess | 09:31 |
| falktx | it makes things too easy :) | 09:31 |
| ailo | Debian is in some way not a distro. More of a library | 09:32 |
| ailo | falktx: Oh, let me ask you where you saw about the debug being built in. I want to know what I'm asking for | 09:34 |
| ailo | bbs | 09:36 |
| ailo | Actually, let me check some packages sources :) | 09:37 |
| falktx | ailo: it's all in the new lv2 libs | 09:37 |
| falktx | lv2-dev, serd, sord, sratom, lilv, suil | 09:37 |
| falktx | also qtractor, patchage | 09:37 |
| falktx | I noticed it in the recent packages | 09:38 |
| falktx | also muse I think | 09:39 |
| falktx | better to give an example | 09:39 |
| falktx | here we go | 09:40 |
| falktx | ailo: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/qtractor.git;a=summary | 09:40 |
| falktx | ^that is the qtractor debian-git page | 09:40 |
| falktx | look at debian/rules file: | 09:41 |
| falktx | http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/qtractor.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules;hb=HEAD | 09:41 |
| falktx | dh_auto_configure -- --enable-debug ... | 09:41 |
| falktx | that is just awful for qtractor | 09:41 |
| falktx | it gets into an unusable state (prints a lot of debug stuff even when processing, as it's being built for debug purposes) | 09:42 |
| falktx | splitting the debug symbols into a separate package won't do anything, as debug is already activated | 09:42 |
| falktx | and this is just 1 small example | 09:43 |
| falktx | if all qtractor's libs are built in debug (lv2 libs, libsamplerate, libsndfile, etc), then it gets even worse | 09:43 |
| falktx | ailo: do you think this information is enough for a post? | 09:44 |
| falktx | you can post the direct irc chat if you want | 09:44 |
| ailo | falktx: Thanks. More than enough. I'll start with that, and see what they say | 10:00 |
| smartboyhw | Oops what did I miss | 10:01 |
| ailo | smartboyhw: You can always check the irc logs | 10:06 |
| ailo | at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | 10:06 |
| smartboyhw | Bye no | 10:07 |
| smartboyhw | *now | 10:08 |
| ailo | falktx: I was just googling at first, just to see if there was already something discussed about this. So, this might answer half the question: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=684035 | 10:12 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 684035 in jackd1 "jackd1: Please provide debug symbols" [Normal,Open] | 10:12 |
| falktx | wtf?? | 10:12 |
| falktx | jack itself with debug | 10:12 |
| falktx | .... what??? | 10:12 |
| falktx | ailo: do they not think about how sluggish apps are by default in debug? | 10:13 |
| falktx | ailo: anyway, please let me know when you post something. and thanks in advance | 10:14 |
| ailo | falktx: I guess it would be best if debug was always in a separate package, right? | 10:15 |
| falktx | I'll try to speak with Rui from qtractor when I see them (about this) | 10:15 |
| falktx | ailo: separate package - yes. using debug mode in all packages and split symbols - no | 10:15 |
| falktx | splitting debug symbols do nothing | 10:16 |
| falktx | the app was not optiized for runtime, it will be slow | 10:16 |
| falktx | *optimized | 10:16 |
| falktx | audio denormals will most likely happen with this scenario, increasing cpu even more | 10:17 |
| falktx | I see the point on using debug mode for testing releases, but not for final ones | 10:17 |
| ailo | yea. Would seem like the best procedure would still be keeping separate debug packages, no matter which release, so you only need to maintain one version of something | 10:22 |
| ailo | I've never done a package like that, so I don't know what extra work goes into it | 10:22 |
| falktx | I guess it comes down to what is most important - app optimization and less cpu usage, or better debug/crash info | 10:23 |
| falktx | considering that most users never report any kind of bugs, well... | 10:23 |
| ailo | falktx: Message sent. I'll let you know when and if i get an answer | 11:31 |
| falktx | ailo: ok, thanks! | 11:32 |
| smartboyhw | Oh yo I saw the mail ailo:) | 12:17 |
| holstein | wonder what that was about | 12:29 |
| smartboyhw | holstein: Look at the channel backlog:) | 12:29 |
| holstein | "im trying to boot into a new operating system without rebootin" | 12:29 |
| holstein | smartboyhw: oh, im aware of what was said.. i just dont understand.. i assume im missing something else | 12:29 |
| smartboyhw | OK | 12:30 |
| len-dt | ailo, does ubuntu-minimal come as a ISO? Is that the new pulse version? (PA-2.1) | 13:15 |
| len-dt | holstein, I'm not really sure either. Maybe he wants to boot into a virtual box of some sort. | 13:17 |
| smartboyhw | Hmm | 13:18 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: But he's trying to install it on a SSD | 13:18 |
| len-dt | I don't think that makes that much difference as to where it is. Just the same as running wine, The directories that make the fake win part could be anywhere | 13:19 |
| len-dt | smartboyhw, is there a page that describes the various ISOs? | 13:31 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: What do you mean? | 13:32 |
| len-dt | smartboyhw, I go to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ and there is a list of flavours. Is there a page that has a description for all these flavours? or do I have to find each one separately | 13:33 |
| len-dt | There are a lot of them that are not even ISOs | 13:34 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: I don't know. Tell me what do ya want | 13:34 |
| len-dt | I want a ubuntu ISO that has no GUI | 13:35 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: Try Ubuntu Core | 13:35 |
| len-dt | It is not an ISO | 13:36 |
| smartboyhw | Why do you need one without gui? | 13:36 |
| len-dt | I want to try something on a minimal machine | 13:36 |
| smartboyhw | Hmm | 13:36 |
| smartboyhw | IDK then. | 13:37 |
| len-dt | No problem. I was going to use server and not install any services :-) but I would really like something not server oriented. | 13:38 |
| smartboyhw | :) | 13:38 |
| falktx | len-dt: you want the net-boot I assume? | 13:39 |
| falktx | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/quantal/ ? | 13:40 |
| len-dt | falktx, I'll look | 13:40 |
| len-dt | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD looks like what I want. | 13:43 |
| falktx | len-dt: yep, that's the same | 13:43 |
| falktx | minimal = netboot | 13:44 |
| len-dt | Ya, that was what I thought I got there from the netboot wiki. | 13:44 |
| len-dt | But the minimal page provides info the way I want to do things. | 13:44 |
| len-dt | falktx, I want to make an CLI audio machine and also try netjack on an older machine. | 13:46 |
| ailo | len-dt: If you do an expert install, you can choose to not install any of the metas (or tasks). What you get then is ubuntu-minimal. | 14:52 |
| ailo | That which is below all the derivatives | 14:53 |
| ailo | len-dt: You can do that with different installers. Alternate, net-install | 14:54 |
| len-dt | ailo, I have a mini.iso (40M) that has an alt installer | 14:54 |
| len-dt | ya from net-install | 14:54 |
| ailo | Or maybe just a normal install does that too, with those | 14:58 |
| ailo | I don't remember. I always do expert install | 14:58 |
| len-dt | No matter, I have something to play with. I'll start with that. | 14:59 |
| len-dt | ailo, what version of PA did you have problems with? | 15:00 |
| ailo | len-dt: hmm, actually not 2.1. 2.0-6 | 15:01 |
| len-dt | Might be an idea to try 2.1 | 15:01 |
| ailo | I'm on Debian Sid at the moment. It's not updating much right now, which I think has to do with Wheezy being released soon | 15:02 |
| ailo | I should do some tests on Quantal | 15:02 |
| len-dt | When next I boot quantal I will exercise PA as hard as I can. | 15:03 |
| ailo | len-dt: Just put something playing for a long period. Like Totem | 15:03 |
| ailo | It can take hours | 15:04 |
| len-dt | Ya. 2.1 is available from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-audio-dev/+archive | 15:04 |
| ailo | If it happens on Quantal, I will try to see what happens | 15:04 |
| holstein | len-dt: yeah... still, that would be "easy" to just point the virtualization software to the downloaded iso | 15:30 |
| smartboyhw | holstein: +1 | 15:31 |
| holstein | i wouldnt think someone wanting to do that would need to ask how | 15:31 |
| * holstein shrugs | 15:31 | |
| len-dt | holstein, that would be my guess too. | 15:31 |
| smartboyhw | How on earth can you install without reboot? That is a step after installation using the live dvd | 15:31 |
| len-dt | smartboyhw, on a virtual run the reboot is only in the virtual box not the surrounding OS | 15:32 |
| smartboyhw | len-dt: I know | 15:32 |
| len-dt | I think part of the problem is that the user was not explaining what they wanted to do very well. | 15:33 |
| smartboyhw | But then it IS a step, and I don't think Ubuntu Studio is really not suitable in a VM | 15:33 |
| len-dt | I tend to be the same... My brain thinks everyone already knows what I am talking about. | 15:33 |
| holstein | len-dt: yeah, maybe a language barrier | 15:34 |
| smartboyhw | I think he just wants to install it without having a reboot after installation | 15:34 |
| len-dt | Some of that may be possible... no new kernel for example. But it leads to odd bugs. I have found that even when a SW update does not ask for reboot, it often helps. | 15:36 |
| smartboyhw | :) | 15:36 |
| ailo | You can build a new OS on a different partition, but I don't know about installing from ISO, without using the installer. | 15:37 |
| ailo | Maybe it's possible to switch OS's without rebooting somehow, but I've never heard of it | 15:38 |
| ailo | I'd assume you need to be running the same kernel, and somehow switch the filesystem on the fly | 15:39 |
| ailo | Restart pretty much everything | 15:40 |
| ailo | Which is basically rebooting | 15:40 |
| len-dt | Ya, but someone doing that should not be having to ask how... | 15:40 |
| smartboyhw | ailo: +1 | 15:40 |
| ailo | len-dt: At least not on our channel. But, as you said, I'm not sure we understood the question | 15:42 |
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