[00:33] <pandoras> someone still awake?
[00:34] <pandoras> im here, running archlinux, and download ubuntustudio64, becaus that stuff with the archlinux-rt is realy messed up
[00:34] <pandoras> get a new SSD drive, had partitioned, and made a ext4 filesystem, so i want install the iso on to it, without any livesystem
[00:34] <pandoras> is that possible?
[00:35] <pandoras> mount the iso, copy some files.. ect?
[00:48] <pandoras> hm,... should ask tomorrow again, time to sleep
[03:28] <len-dt> pandoras, yes you can install to a USB stick or other memory that looks like a drive.
[03:28] <smartboyhw> Yo len-dt
[03:28] <len-dt> or you can make a startup "DVD" on the memory stick and try the ISO live.
[03:29] <len-dt> hello smartboyhw
[12:21] <pandoras> re
[12:21] <pandoras> someone here?
[12:21] <smartboyhw> Hi pandoras
[12:21] <pandoras> jeah :D
[12:21] <pandoras> i want to try install ubuntustuido direct from my running Archlinux to my new SSD
[12:21] <smartboyhw> Ah huh
[12:22] <holstein> pandoras: its a live CD.. download and enjoy!
[12:22] <pandoras> without livesystem or cd/stick  its that possible?
[12:22] <holstein> pandoras: its all open, so everything is "possible".. what are you trying to do?
[12:23] <pandoras> install direct to disk
[12:23] <holstein> you should be able to use unetbootin to create a bootable drive out of anything.. as len-dt suggested earlier
[12:23] <holstein> pandoras: if you want to "install" direct to disc, then i would just use a DVD or USB stick and install
[12:24] <pandoras> hm... may the easist way
[12:25] <pandoras> my idea was to get a way without reboot the machine, anyway, have a lot of memory sticks
[12:25] <holstein> pandoras: it would be challenging to have a partition running a live image, and install to another partition on the same drive
[12:25] <holstein> im sure, as i said earlier, since its all open.. anything is possible
[12:25] <holstein> i typically take the path of least resistance
[12:26] <pandoras> i chose the easy way, to lazy for that :D
[12:26] <holstein> i would expect to reboot after installing a new operating system
[12:28]  * pandoras prepare usb-stick
[12:28] <pandoras> kthxbye
[12:41] <cbx33> anyone here used linux sampler?
[16:37] <SirFunk> Can I add the ubuntu studio sources to a regular ubuntu system or will it cause things to break?
[16:37] <holstein> SirFunk: there actually are no "sources"
[16:37] <holstein> the packages are in the main repos
[16:38] <holstein> SirFunk: you can open a package manager such as synaptic and search "ubuntustudio" and read about our metapackages
[16:38] <SirFunk> oh... they are hmm..
[16:38] <SirFunk> should there be a ffado package in ubuntu then?
[16:38] <holstein> SirFunk: you can also just install what you need from our packages and not use the metapackages
[16:38] <SirFunk> oh! helps if i spell it correctly :-P
[16:39] <holstein> SirFunk: JACK comes able to use the ffado driver by default
[16:39] <holstein> the "firewire" driver is the new one
[16:39] <holstein> SirFunk: you can install JACK and have access to JACK using the ffado driver
[16:40] <holstein> SirFunk: things should not break, but failure is always an option
[16:40] <holstein> i would just grab our iso, try it live, and learn what you need to use your firewire device
[16:41] <holstein> i do not casually use my firewire device for all or any of my system audio... i use it only for capturing audio in the studio with JACK running
[16:42] <holstein> capturing to and montitoring from ardour
[16:43] <SirFunk> yeah
[16:45] <SirFunk> bah i'm running xfce i think i need dbus
[16:46] <SirFunk> I just want to see if jack/ffado will see my card
[16:50] <len-dt> SirFunk, Do you have a 4G USB stick? Put the ubuntustudio ISO on that and boot the live session. If it works there then your card is supported
[16:51] <len-dt> Then you can see what you need to load on your current system
[16:54] <SirFunk> yeah.. i shall try that later
[16:54] <SirFunk> gotta run out now
[16:54] <SirFunk> thanks
[17:05] <jean> Hi there, I have a question about firewire : On my computer, I have just installed a pci firewire card. It seems to be recognized by the system ("lspci |grep Fire" says there is a card and "dmesg |grep fire" says it created a device fw0). But Kino doesn't recognize the firewire. So I did the floowing fix : sudo ln /dev/fw0 /dev/raw1394 and as I launch kino as root there no more the raw1394...
[17:05] <jean> ...error message. But it doesn't recognize my dv camcorder saying : No AV/C compliant camera connected or not switched on. Any idea ?
[17:37] <ailo> jean: I only know about firewire audio devices. Could be a permission problem.
[17:39] <ailo> jean: But I don't think adding the raw1394 link will solve it
[17:40] <ailo> There's a new firewire stack, since about 2 years ago (introduced with Ubuntu 10.10
[17:42] <ailo> jean: Are you in the video group?
[17:43] <ailo> You can use the command groups to find out
[17:43] <ailo> If not, try that. You need to relogin in order for that to come into effect
[17:45] <ailo> jean: An example of permission rules https://ieee1394.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Juju_Migration#Permissions_and_ownership_for_.2Fdev.2Ffw.2A
[17:46] <ailo> One for audio devices is found at /lib/udev/rules.d/60-ffado.rules
[17:51] <ailo> jean: But, if you tried launching as root, that should have worked of course
[17:52] <ailo> jean: So, did you check whether your device is compatible?
[18:08] <jean> alio : thanx, but wait... i have to get my daughter asleep...
[18:19] <ailo> jean: I'm afraid I can't be of much more help to you, but the page I linked you to has some info on the firewire stack for Linux. Also, I would just try to google on your device + Linux
[18:22] <ailo> My understanding is that by belonging to video group, any supported firewire device with udev rules will work out of the box
[18:23] <ailo> And most devices should already have rules
[19:27] <jean> ailo : do you think a new fresh install could correct this ? because my other pc with a internal firewire card works out of the box. And this one which was already installed don't...
[19:49] <ailo> jean: Is it the same OS and version?
[19:50] <ailo> Some firewire chips aren't reliable, but I have no idea about what that means in practice. I've only ever tried to use a chip that I know is reliable
[19:52] <jean> alio : ok ! I'll keep on trying a few hours and may be I'll try to buy another pci card... thanx
[19:55] <ailo> jean: Try a live image. that should be the fastest way
[19:57] <jean> ailo : good idea !
[21:03] <in_> hello
[21:05] <in_> i am on xubuntu and i want to use a midi usb keyboard, but dont really know where to start
[21:06] <in_> i installed qtractor but it does not seem to receive any midi, any tips? thnx
[21:06] <in_> btw, the setup workx in windows
[21:07] <in_> buzz :)
[21:11] <ailo> in_: I suppose you are familiar with jack?
[21:11] <in_> nope
[21:11] <in_> but i can familiarize if its needed :)
[21:12] <ailo> in_: It's a sound system for "pro" audio applications such as qtractor
[21:12] <in_> aha
[21:12] <ailo> The server starts automatically when you start qtractor
[21:12] <in_> ok
[21:12] <ailo> Now, midi there's two kinds of midi. Jack, and alsa
[21:13] <ailo> You'll be dealing with asla
[21:13] <ailo> alsa*
[21:13] <ailo> In qtractor, there's a button called "connections"
[21:14] <in_> ahh
[21:14] <in_> red one
[21:14] <ailo> Under audio, you'll see your audio device, and any program that supports jack
[21:14] <ailo> All jack programs can interconnect
[21:14] <in_> aha
[21:14] <ailo> Under midi, you should be able to see your midi device, and qtractor
[21:14] <in_> i see mi usb midi under midi tab
[21:14] <in_> *my
[21:15] <ailo> in_: The same guy who wrote qtractor also wrote a nifty tool called qjackctl. I'd recommend you install that too
[21:15] <in_> it is installed
[21:15] <in_> it instaled automaticaly from software center
[21:15] <ailo> You can use that to start jack manually
[21:16] <ailo> And save settings, etc
[21:16] <in_> but how to get midi working ?
[21:17] <ailo> in_: Well. You connect your device with qtractor
[21:17] <in_> connect is grayed
[21:17] <ailo> You need to select the devices you want to connect
[21:17] <ailo> From -> To
[21:18] <in_> :D
[21:18] <in_> i figured it out
[21:18] <in_> big smile on my face
[21:18] <in_> now ill test it
[21:19] <ailo> You won't get good performance at low latencies. To get that working easily, I recommend you install Ubuntu Studio, which uses XFCE as base
[21:19] <ailo> All is set up for realtime audio
[21:19] <ailo> All you need to do is to familiarize yourself with the applications
[21:20] <ailo> You can test it with the live image first
[21:21] <in_> ahh, i am not heading for production
[21:22] <ailo> Well, if you want to play an instrument live, and not have big latencies or chopped up audio, you need to set things up for realtime audio
[21:22] <ailo> Just saying
[21:22] <in_> i am playing with xubuntu and checking to see how soon i will be able to completly replace the crappy xp
[21:23] <in_> of corse i need around 10ms latency
[21:23] <in_> otherwise it'll be useless
[21:23] <ailo> Then you'll need to set up realtime audio
[21:23] <ailo> You can do it manually, but as I said, it's just simpler if you install Ubuntu Studio. Same desktop as Xubuntu
[21:23] <ailo> Prety much
[21:23] <in_> what does that involve ?
[21:24] <in_> i am on alsa now right ?
[21:24] <in_> how much latency should i now get with audiophile 192 ?
[21:24] <ailo> in_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro/1204
[21:25] <ailo> With the proper setup, you should be able to get well under 10ms. Maybe even 2ms
[21:25] <in_> i mean right now, without tuning
[21:25] <in_> :)
[21:26] <in_> sry for not being familiar with alsa/jack stuff yet
[21:26] <ailo> With no setting up, jack can't use realtime operation, so it doesn't have priority
[21:27] <ailo> And you get lousy operation
[21:27] <in_> it asked me something about real time at insall time
[21:27] <in_> i chosed yes
[21:27] <ailo> in_: On Debian, that would be enough. On Ubuntu, you need to also add yourself to audio group
[21:28] <ailo> in a terminal: sudo usermod -a -G audio $USER
[21:28] <ailo> in_: In order to get the most of your system, you also need to install linux-lowlatency
[21:28] <in_> i did it from gui
[21:28] <ailo> On Debian, the user is already member of audio group
[21:29] <ailo> in_: To install linux-lowlatency, in a terminal: sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency
[21:29] <ailo> Also, make sure you boot into it, when rebooting
[21:29] <ailo> It won't appear in the top of the list, since it's not been updated for a while
[21:30] <in_> boot into it ? is install like a different system or .. ? i am not familiar with that
[21:30] <ailo> in_: Linux is the core of the operationg system. The kernel
[21:30] <in_> linux-lowlatency is another kernel ?
[21:30] <ailo> Yes
[21:31] <in_> k, clear now
[21:31] <ailo> You can have multiple kernels installed on the same os
[21:31] <in_> yup, i got now
[21:31] <ailo> That's all anyway
[21:31] <ailo> Use qjackctl to set your latency lower
[21:31] <ailo> 64 frames/period should do it
[21:31] <in_> i  sill dont have notes in qtrator
[21:32] <in_> :)
[21:32] <ailo> in_: You could ask someone at #opensourcemusicians about that
[21:32] <ailo> I don't much dabble with qtractor myself
[21:32] <in_> but didnt tested enough
[21:33] <in_> i am not asking now, i just need to play a little bit with it first
[21:33] <in_> 30 mins ago i read about it the first time :)
[21:33] <ailo> Well, I think you have enough info to solve things out :)
[21:34] <ailo> in_: When rebooting, if you don't see a boot menu with kernels, use the shift key while booting
[21:34] <in_> yup, i'll only ask more if i'll stuck at anything
[21:34] <in_> thnx alot for your help
[21:34] <ailo> np
[21:35] <in_> what do you use ?
[21:35] <in_> as sequencer ?
[21:35] <ailo> I sometimes use both qtractor and ardour, but very little. I mostly use puredata
[21:35] <in_> puredata ?
[21:36] <in_> is that a sequencer ?
[21:36] <ailo> Yea, not a sequencer. It's live audio programming
[21:36] <in_> or you program
[21:36] <ailo> Or, audio/video programming. It's a graphical language
[21:36] <in_> hmm, that deep
[21:36] <ailo> Very nice for things like creating your own custom effects, etc
[21:37] <in_> *thats deep
[21:37] <in_> i know what you are talking
[21:37] <ailo> It can receive and control any type of signal. midi, audio, video
[21:37] <in_> is it done in the pc ?
[21:37] <in_> or dedicated hardware ?
[21:38] <ailo> Any hardware will do, if PD supports it. audio through jack/alsa/pulseaudio
[21:38] <ailo> I'm not sure about video, but alsa-midi is supported
[21:38] <ailo> Video is supported of course
[21:38] <ailo> But, exactly how, I don't really know
[21:39] <ailo> Keyboard, mouse, com port
[21:39] <ailo> There's also custom HW, like arduino
[21:39] <in_> i made an audio plugin once
[21:39] <ailo> vst?
[21:39] <in_> kx
[21:39] <in_> for kx driver
[21:39] <in_> it was somehow dsp programing at base
[21:40] <in_> i really like area
[21:41] <in_> but complex mathematics somehow scare me :D
[21:41] <ailo> First time I heard of it
[21:41] <in_> of corse, it not mainstream
[21:41] <ailo> pd (puredata) isn't very complex. You can very quickly do fun things with midi
[21:41] <in_> wanna hear its history short ? its quite interesting
[21:41] <ailo> I just looked it up
[21:41] <ailo> http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/
[21:42] <ailo> Looks not updated
[21:42] <in_> kx is an free driver developed buy a guy for boards based on 10k chip from creative/emu
[21:42] <in_> buy=by
[21:42] <in_> :)
[21:43] <in_> http://mixy.0fees.net/
[21:43] <in_> my plugin
[21:43] <in_> on the win98 era someone hacked the emu driver to work with sblive
[21:44] <in_> emu board was ~800 usd, sblive ~100
[21:44] <in_> they had alsomst the same hardware
[21:45] <in_> but the driver was vxd, and xp used wdm drivers, so if you switched to xp emu driver would not work anymore
[21:45] <in_> the driver had hardware real time reverbs/delay etc...
[21:46] <in_> and nobody hacked the wdm driver
[21:46] <ailo> Well, I don't think you should have any trouble ditching XP for linux. I haven't been on anything else for years.
[21:46] <in_> so this gui made his own driver and plugin platform
[21:47] <in_> the power was in the power of the dsp in this boards
[21:48] <in_> right now i miss sketchup
[21:50] <ailo> Hopefully all those applications will soon be web based, and there will be no need to get an OS just to run one app
[21:51] <in_> about pd programming, i really like trance arpegios and i am at the point of comprehending them
[21:52] <in_> i bet more on open source/public domain, than on web based
[21:53] <in_> the problem as i see it is in the posibility of an owner to direct the developement to profit then to usefullness, so web based cannot change this if it is noto also open source
[21:54] <in_> did you do any arps with this pd thing ? how you do it? what are the tools?
[21:55] <in_> btw, i also made a vst, but with synthedit, so no programing involved :), and it's about midi
[21:55] <in_> http://lfox8.0fees.net/
[21:57] <ailo> in_: Companies will always look to make profit, as long as it makes a profit. If making open source code makes a profit, that is what they will do. With web apps, they can reach the client directly, and those that want to pay for it, can, no matter on which OS
[21:58] <ailo> Games I would think will become more and more web based
[22:00] <ailo> in_: Trance Arpeggio? isn't that just an arpeggio for trance music?
[22:00] <in_> yup
[22:01] <in_> trance is very much about music programing, it sound like music but is alot of programing
[22:01] <ailo> You can practically do anything on PD, just that some things take a bit longer on PD, compared to other languages
[22:01] <in_> and the more creative it sound, the more programing was involved :)
[22:01] <ailo> Some things, a lot faster
[22:03] <ailo> pd is perfect for non programmers
[22:03] <ailo> Still requires a bit of effort to get into
[22:03] <in_> i see is hase conection with max
[22:04] <in_> wasnt max similar with synthedit ?
[22:04] <in_> *it has, i have a strange keyboard, sry
[22:05] <ailo> Miller Puckette was the author of the original Max, but stepped away once it became a business
[22:05] <ailo> So, he started puredata
[22:07] <in_> interesting :)
[22:08] <ailo> in_: If you're interested in audio programming, there are lot's of other languages, supercollider, csound, chuck..
[22:08] <ailo> And for graphics, there's processing
[22:09] <in_> i dont like graphics
[22:09] <in_> :)
[22:11] <in_> what is lost with lowlatency kernel ? why is it not default ?
[22:12] <ailo> in_: It's almost a copy of the generic kernel, but requires a bit more resources
[22:12] <ailo> So, battery time should be shorter
[22:12] <ailo> I haven't seen any data on that yet. We will do some testing on that too
[22:12] <in_> ahh, i see, not so resource friendly
[22:13] <ailo> Exactly how much remains to be seen
[22:14] <in_> ahh, that should not be a problem, altough a more flexible swithing would be nice, like low latency being only active when you launch the audio app, and not being needed to boot a special kernel
[22:15] <in_> *switching
[22:15] <in_> btw, recording midi worked, without installing anything, this is amazing in linux :)
[22:15] <in_> i mean ubuntu
[22:16] <ailo> It's nice not having to install any drivers
[22:16] <ailo> Some few devices might require extra firmware though.
[22:16] <ailo> But they are usually available in the repo
[22:16] <in_> i also admin about 9 pcs at my mom bussiness, and i customized an xubuntu live exactly as i need it, i'am really impressed, and i mean it
[22:17] <in_> i also included restricted-firmware in it, it rocks
[22:17] <in_> :)
[22:20] <in_> now i need to get live midi playing work :)
[22:22] <ailo> in_: Try hexter
[22:23] <ailo> Just make sure to start jack first
[22:23] <ailo> If you don't find it in the software center, do: sudo apt-get install hexter
[22:23] <ailo> And use qjackctl to connect
[22:24] <in_> i am in qtractor
[22:24] <in_> isnt jack already started ?
[22:25] <in_> with live i ment real time, i dont want to use it outside qtractor
[22:25] <in_> i need to find an instrument i think, there seem to be none in qtractor
[22:30] <ailo> in_: Hexter is an instrument
[22:30] <ailo> You can also load instruments in qjackctl, if you installed them
[22:30] <ailo> Never did that myself
[22:30] <ailo> Formats are dssi and lv2
[22:33] <in_> do you recomend any synth ?
[22:35] <ailo> in_: Nope. I recommend #opensourcemusicians though. It's a nice channel with a bit more traffic than this one
[22:36] <in_> i already joined that, i just didnt asked the question yet :)
[22:43] <ailo> in_: Er, I meant load instruments into qtractor, not qjackctl
[22:43] <ailo> Many DAW's support instrument loading