[02:43] <smartboyhw> knome: ping
[02:49] <noskcaj> knome isn't online smartboyhw
[02:49] <smartboyhw> OH alright then, some matters about testcases
[02:51] <noskcaj> i
[02:52] <noskcaj> i'm willing to assume that involes me aswell
[02:52] <noskcaj> i was working on a testcase with knome thismorning
[02:52] <smartboyhw> noskcaj: No. It is some sort of acking admin problem
[02:53] <smartboyhw> You see both knome and me put the testcases in the main ISO QA Tracker, which we shouldn't have done till balloons' approval I think
[02:54] <noskcaj> oh
[02:55] <noskcaj> that cant end to well
[02:55] <smartboyhw> And some of the formatting is bad also
[08:30] <mips1911> #Ubuntu-Arabic
[08:30] <smartboyhw> mips1911: ?
[08:30] <mips1911> ?
[08:31] <smartboyhw> mips1911: Why do you say #ubuntu-arabic in the Xubuntu dev channel?
[08:31] <mips1911> was trying to join a channel
[08:31] <smartboyhw> Oh alright
[08:31] <mips1911> need a french-arabic dictionary, sigh
[08:40] <elfy> mips1911: one of these might help http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/locallanguage#arabic
[08:41] <mips1911> thanks elfy
[12:53] <mr_pouit> eh, finally done
[12:53] <mr_pouit> knome: Bug #1048217 please push the buttons so I can upload that soon :P
[12:53] <mr_pouit> thanks
[13:21] <knome> mr_pouit, that'd be FFe?
[13:27] <mr_pouit> yep
[13:28] <knome> ok
[13:28] <knome> it's probably going to be tomorrow, since it's sunday
[13:28] <mr_pouit> yeah, I know
[13:28] <mr_pouit> bbl
[13:28] <knome> see you, and thanks
[17:05] <elfy> evening all
[17:06] <mips1911> hi
[17:07] <pnarciso> hey
[17:16] <elfy> hi mips1911 pnarciso 
[17:37]  * micahg waves to knome
[17:55] <Unit193> Is that a wave and run?
[18:47]  * micahg waves to knome again
[18:48] <Unit193> To be fair, when you d/c: <Unit193> Is that a wave and run?
[18:52] <knome> hey micahg :)
[18:54] <elfy> knome: you got time for a very quick PM ?
[18:55] <knome> elfy, sure
[19:11] <micahg> knome: so, we have some space to make?
[19:14] <knome> micahg, we do
[19:16] <knome> micahg, did you look at http://www.typewith.me/p/x-q-imagesize ?
[19:16] <micahg> I commented on teh first rounf
[19:17] <micahg> *round
[19:17] <knome> yeah, i deleted the "upsteam" stuff
[19:17] <knome> and yeah, i know the situation with icons
[19:17] <knome> it's so weird that any application depends on an icon set
[19:22] <knome> micahg, can we blacklist packages from the CD even if they are on "depends"?
[19:22] <micahg> no
[19:22] <micahg> if we have an icon set that provides the same icons as gnome-icon-theme, we can add a provides as well
[19:23] <micahg> err..gnome-icon-theme + humanity-icon-theme + hicolor-icon-theme
[19:23] <knome> and then we could drop gnome-icon-theme?
[19:23] <micahg> yeah, it wouldn't be added
[19:23] <micahg> that's ~7MB
[19:23] <knome> gnome-icon-theme?
[19:23] <micahg> well, all 3 of those together
[19:23] <knome> mmh
[19:23] <knome> that's not too much
[19:23] <micahg> nope
[19:24] <micahg> I think we should drop gimp
[19:24] <micahg> it's not core to the Xubuntu experience
[19:24] <knome> yeah, it starts looking like it
[19:24] <knome> if we drop that, when do we know how much we gain?
[19:24] <knome> can you calculate that directly?
[19:24] <micahg> no, but guesses are between 20 and 40MB
[19:24] <knome> that's a big difference
[19:24] <knome> if it's 20, we still need a lot
[19:24] <micahg> well, I could if I had a proper setup for generating images locally, but I don't
[19:25] <knome> i there somebody who has that? :P
[19:25] <knome> *is too
[19:27] <knome> anyway, if it's 20
[19:27] <knome> we are at, what 737
[19:27] <knome> still 30 to drop
[19:27] <knome> what about those two items on the pad?
[19:28] <knome> the library docs and the api description
[19:29] <micahg> no, those are provided by other packages
[19:30] <micahg> actually, I can see what will change
[19:30] <knome> oh? :)
[19:30]  * micahg can build a new meta
[19:30] <knome> shiny :)
[19:34] <knome> WHAT?
[19:34] <micahg> hrm, that can't be right
[19:34] <knome> 200MB?
[19:34]  * micahg tries again
[19:35] <knome> haha.. obviously...
[19:35] <knome> would've been too good
[19:35] <knome> but doesn't it pull python2?
[19:36] <micahg> hrm...idk here
[19:36] <micahg> still same results
[19:36] <knome> woot
[19:36] <micahg> desktop-core probably adds some stuff that's missing maybe
[19:36] <knome> if it really clears 200MB...
[19:36] <micahg> but I think it's worth a shot
[19:37] <knome> ok, let's just drop gimp
[19:37] <knome> when will we know?
[19:37] <micahg> do we have a simple image editing thing to go in its place?
[19:37] <micahg> when the next ISO is made :)
[19:37] <knome> no, we don't
[19:38] <knome> that was investigated, but there simply isn't good ones
[19:38] <micahg> which will be tomorrow morning
[19:38] <knome> what's ubuntu shipping?
[19:38] <micahg> ok, can we add a simple one in its place?
[19:38] <knome> we can, but we need to decide which one
[19:38] <knome> not the easiest task... :)
[19:38] <micahg> I'm not sure that Ubuntu has one
[19:39] <knome> mmh
[19:39] <micahg> they have something for photo editing, I don't remember what
[19:39] <Unit193> Bummer, though can you have an installer thingy like Kubuntu and firefox?
[19:40] <micahg> no, Kubuntu has that since their default is rekonq
[19:40] <knome> doesn't gthumb do some photo stuff?
[19:40] <knome> like rotate and that
[19:41] <micahg> ok, let's drop gimp and see where we are, then we can add back something for editing before beta 2
[19:42] <knome> micahg, is there some way to check manually how much we would benefit?
[19:42] <micahg> yeah, if someone had a proper setup to manually make a CD which I don't, xnox might
[19:42] <xnox> nope
[19:42] <xnox> JFDI & wait for a daily
[19:43] <xnox> folks on -release can do respins as well -/
[19:43] <Sysi> does ubuntu use f-spot?
[19:43] <micahg> it should be known around 10AM UTC tomorrow
[19:44] <knome> xnox, mind the language;)
[19:44] <micahg> it means Just Fplease Do It :)
[19:44] <knome> :P
[19:45] <micahg> knome: any reason not to upload this + the mahjongg drop?
[19:46] <knome> micahg, no
[19:46] <knome> micahg, well, users whining but i don't care
[19:46] <micahg> ok
[19:46] <knome> they'll whine more if we don't fit on a CD
[19:46] <micahg> they can still install it
[19:46] <knome> exactly
[19:46] <micahg> and it's just until we can drop gtk2/python2
[19:47] <elfy> I reallly really really really want my cake and to eat it 
[19:47] <knome> well.. that could be long
[19:47] <knome> micahg, what's still keeping python2? some xfce stuff?
[19:47] <micahg> We can make a gimp installer if someone really wants to
[19:47]  * micahg isn't sure right now
[19:48] <knome> micahg, we can, but otoh, 12.10 is not an LTS, so there can be "experimental" stuff
[19:48] <micahg> xchat
[19:48] <micahg> blueman
[19:49] <knome> hmph
[19:49] <knome> only those?
[19:49] <micahg> various GNOMEish things
[19:49] <knome> bleh
[19:49] <micahg> onboard
[19:49] <knome> isn't gnome supposed to have migrated to gtk3? :P
[19:49] <knome> oh wait, python2
[19:49] <knome> duh
[19:49] <knome> :D
[19:50] <micahg> good news is seemingly no xfce stuff is holding it in
[19:51] <knome> yeah
[19:53] <pnarciso> are you guys still discussing what to drop in xubuntu :)
[19:53] <knome> pnarciso, yes
[19:54] <pnarciso> difficult decision
[19:55] <pnarciso> and how is bug squashing going along
[19:55] <knome> slowly progressing
[19:55] <pnarciso> I've noticed that a new version of xfce4-settings lands that is supposed to fix the theming issues in the installer
[19:56] <knome> uh... i don't think xfce4-settings is supposed to fix it ;)
[19:56] <knome> but i might be wrong
[19:56] <knome> maybe it is an issue on how to set themes
[19:59] <pnarciso> - 03_check-service-name.patch: check that NameOwnerChanged signals are
[19:59] <pnarciso>       really intended for xfsettingsd (should hopefully fix unthemed/black
[19:59] <pnarciso>       ubiquity windows). lp: #1010487
[19:59] <knome> k
[19:59] <pnarciso> this is part of the changelog of xfce4-settings
[20:01] <pnarciso> also another big bug that landed, was USC stopped launching with version 5.3.11
[20:01] <Unit193> Not an issue. :D
[20:02] <pnarciso> well, it is because is the default package manager
[20:41] <knome> mr_pouit, feel free to go ahead and upload for bug #1048217
[20:42] <ochosi> oh nice
[21:27] <pnarciso> so, indicator sound was reintroduced, how can I restore it back?
[21:31] <ochosi> pnarciso: as long as the status isn't "fix released" the sound indicator hasn't been re-uploaded
[21:31] <pnarciso> ok, thanks for the explanation
[21:32] <pnarciso> gnome mahjongg and gimp were remove from desktop recommended, though
[21:39] <SkippersBoss> gimp removed ?
[21:40] <pnarciso> some programs need to be removed to meet the 700mb cd size
[21:41] <SkippersBoss> I understand the rational 
[21:41] <SkippersBoss> but gimp ? was it that big ?
[21:42] <micahg> yeah, lots of dependencies
[21:42] <SkippersBoss> ow
[21:42] <SkippersBoss> gotcha
[21:42] <micahg> even it itself is big: apt-cache show gimp | grep ^Size
[21:42] <micahg> Size: 5314716
[21:44] <SkippersBoss> are ristretto and gthumb still in ?
[21:44] <knome> yes
[21:45] <SkippersBoss> How stable is midori as browser. Could it be a substitue for FF ?
[21:45] <pnarciso> midori lacks a lot of things
[21:46] <SkippersBoss> html5 support u mean
[21:46] <pnarciso> even a basic password storage
[21:46] <knome> SkippersBoss, if we're going to replace FF, i think it would made sense to rethink TB too, and atm i don't think replacing those would be a good idea
[21:47] <SkippersBoss> Thats me told of :-)
[21:47] <micahg> yeah, both are pretty big, but it's hard to find better options out there
[21:47] <SkippersBoss> not having password storage in a browser is not such a bad thing though in this day and age
[21:48] <knome> i believe those applications add to the xubuntu experience a lot
[21:48] <pnarciso> With the time I've spent with midori I don't think is a replacement
[21:49] <SkippersBoss> yet
[21:49] <pnarciso> I would replace FF only with Chromium
[21:50] <knome> from my POV, the only considerable option for a browser for xubuntu is midori, but since that's not ready for it yet, i'll rather stick with FF
[21:50] <SkippersBoss> ah
[21:50] <SkippersBoss> :-)
[21:50] <knome> well, that being said, anything is up for discussion
[21:51] <knome> but i believe it doesn't make much sense to change to a different browser that has the same functionality, or a bit worse, since our users are accustomed to firefox
[21:51] <knome> midori is a completely different thing, because it's supposed to be much lighter
[21:51] <Unit193> Try xxxterm as a nice alternate browser (not for Xubu, for yourself. :P )
[21:51] <SkippersBoss> So its not totally out. I m using it since opera keeps crashing. But yep it still needs some work done to it
[21:51] <knome> however, it doesn't "do it" yet
[21:51] <bluesabre> And firefox guarantees that it will be current release throughout its lifetime
[21:54] <pnarciso> yes, midori is less resource intensive but it's way behind in features and the level of maintenance of firefox is much higher
[21:55] <knome> we shouldn't compare midori (or other candidates) to FF or other "popular" browsers, we should compare them to the requirements we have in mind
[21:56] <knome> eg. "which features should a web browser in xubuntu have"
[21:56] <SkippersBoss> pnarciso, I think knome made sence when he said that Yes midori is a consideration for XU but it is not there yet
[21:56] <SkippersBoss> hear hear 
[21:57] <knome> well, that should always be the starting point for any application that is considered for inclusion :9
[21:57] <knome> :)
[21:57] <pnarciso> I only wish that flash was abandoned completely, because it's not supported anymore in linux unless chrome is installed
[21:57] <knome> i'm hoping that flash will generally phase out
[21:57] <bluesabre> Yes, please
[21:57] <knome> but that doesn't have much to do with xubuntu :)
[21:57] <SkippersBoss> that's why opera keeps crashing :-(
[21:57] <bluesabre> Maybe by the next LTS, Flash will be gone.
[21:58] <pnarciso> I hope so
[21:58] <micahg> nah, flash has about 4.5 years of life left
[21:58] <micahg> when 11.2 is EOL, it won't be viable since it'll be chromium only
[21:58] <pnarciso> it's buggy on linux and adobe never bothered to fix it
[21:58] <micahg> or PPAPI only rather
[21:59] <knome> micahg, probably until it's dead for good, but i think/hope web designers will start to phase out from it with the new html5 stuff :)
[21:59] <pnarciso> html5 is much faster
[22:00] <bluesabre> I'm a fan of anything that doesn't make my laptop a hovercraft
[22:00] <knome> bluesabre, that just sounds like you need to buy a new laptop ;)
[22:00] <knome> another way of fixing the issue
[22:00] <bluesabre> Yeah, well, that requires money :D
[22:01] <SkippersBoss> Grows on trees bluesabre 
[22:01] <SkippersBoss> lol
[22:02] <pnarciso> They just announced more austerity measures in my country, so we keep gaining less and less...
[22:02] <SkippersBoss> not only in your country
[22:04] <pnarciso> this is full of corrupt politicians
[22:04] <SkippersBoss> lets take that discussion to OT
[22:05] <pnarciso> it's better :)
[22:23] <pnarciso> I was testing midori againt FF and midori must have some memory leaks because it takes 370 mb of ram compared to FF which take 120 playing the same youtube video
[22:23] <mr_pouit> knome: ido-gtk2 and indicator-sound-gtk2 uploaded and waiting in new. Apparently cjwatson could review them if you ask him kindly :P
[22:23] <mr_pouit> thanks.
[22:23] <knome> np
[22:24] <knome> mr_pouit, poked cjwatson
[22:24] <mr_pouit> awesome
[22:24] <knome> <:
[22:25] <SkippersBoss> pnarciso, midori is not a finished product yet. but in the near future hopefully there to replace FF
[22:25] <mr_pouit> knome: micahg: also, you're going to hate me, but I'm going to waste some iso space to reinclude indicator-{application,sound}-gtk2 and xfce4-indicator-plugin by default /o\
[22:25] <knome> mr_pouit, ahhaha, how much? :P
[22:26] <micahg> mr_pouit: nah, should be fine hopefully
[22:26] <knome> but yeah, we probablt want those anyway
[22:27] <pnarciso> so sound indicator is reintroduced, is there any hope for messaging?
[22:27] <knome> pnarciso, check the status with bluesabre 
[22:27] <SkippersBoss> euh have we dropped pidgin as well ?
[22:27] <knome> SkippersBoss, no?
[22:28] <SkippersBoss> Pfew
[22:28] <knome> what made you think we did?
[22:28] <SkippersBoss> pnarciso> so sound indicator is reintroduced, is there any hope for messaging?
[22:28] <SkippersBoss> my bad
[22:28] <mr_pouit> (there's no hope for indicator-messages afaik, it won't work with xfce4-panel)
[22:30] <pnarciso> and xfce 4.12 won't have gtk3 support :(
[22:30] <knome> mr_pouit, well yeah unless bluesabre makes it work ;]
[22:34] <pnarciso> my workaround for mail indicator, is to install a TB extension for it 
[22:39] <SkippersBoss> hmm. the indicator stack is getting pretty crowded.. Maybe we could thing of having wome kind of drawer/bubble instead in the future
[22:42] <SkippersBoss> some kind