[02:43] knome: ping [02:49] knome isn't online smartboyhw [02:49] OH alright then, some matters about testcases [02:51] i [02:52] i'm willing to assume that involes me aswell [02:52] i was working on a testcase with knome thismorning [02:52] noskcaj: No. It is some sort of acking admin problem [02:53] You see both knome and me put the testcases in the main ISO QA Tracker, which we shouldn't have done till balloons' approval I think [02:54] oh [02:55] that cant end to well [02:55] And some of the formatting is bad also [08:30] #Ubuntu-Arabic [08:30] mips1911: ? [08:30] ? [08:31] mips1911: Why do you say #ubuntu-arabic in the Xubuntu dev channel? [08:31] was trying to join a channel [08:31] Oh alright [08:31] need a french-arabic dictionary, sigh [08:40] mips1911: one of these might help http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/locallanguage#arabic [08:41] thanks elfy [12:53] eh, finally done [12:53] knome: Bug #1048217 please push the buttons so I can upload that soon :P [12:53] Launchpad bug 1048217 in Ubuntu "Re-introduce indicator-sound-gtk2/ido-gtk2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048217 [12:53] thanks [13:21] mr_pouit, that'd be FFe? [13:27] yep [13:28] ok [13:28] it's probably going to be tomorrow, since it's sunday [13:28] yeah, I know [13:28] bbl [13:28] see you, and thanks === yofel_ is now known as yofel [17:05] evening all [17:06] hi [17:07] hey [17:16] hi mips1911 pnarciso [17:37] * micahg waves to knome [17:55] Is that a wave and run? [18:47] * micahg waves to knome again [18:48] To be fair, when you d/c: Is that a wave and run? [18:52] hey micahg :) [18:54] knome: you got time for a very quick PM ? [18:55] elfy, sure [19:11] knome: so, we have some space to make? [19:14] micahg, we do [19:16] micahg, did you look at http://www.typewith.me/p/x-q-imagesize ? [19:16] I commented on teh first rounf [19:17] *round [19:17] yeah, i deleted the "upsteam" stuff [19:17] and yeah, i know the situation with icons [19:17] it's so weird that any application depends on an icon set [19:22] micahg, can we blacklist packages from the CD even if they are on "depends"? [19:22] no [19:22] if we have an icon set that provides the same icons as gnome-icon-theme, we can add a provides as well [19:23] err..gnome-icon-theme + humanity-icon-theme + hicolor-icon-theme [19:23] and then we could drop gnome-icon-theme? [19:23] yeah, it wouldn't be added [19:23] that's ~7MB [19:23] gnome-icon-theme? [19:23] well, all 3 of those together [19:23] mmh [19:23] that's not too much [19:23] nope [19:24] I think we should drop gimp [19:24] it's not core to the Xubuntu experience [19:24] yeah, it starts looking like it [19:24] if we drop that, when do we know how much we gain? [19:24] can you calculate that directly? [19:24] no, but guesses are between 20 and 40MB [19:24] that's a big difference [19:24] if it's 20, we still need a lot [19:24] well, I could if I had a proper setup for generating images locally, but I don't [19:25] i there somebody who has that? :P [19:25] *is too [19:27] anyway, if it's 20 [19:27] we are at, what 737 [19:27] still 30 to drop [19:27] what about those two items on the pad? [19:28] the library docs and the api description [19:29] no, those are provided by other packages [19:30] actually, I can see what will change [19:30] oh? :) [19:30] * micahg can build a new meta [19:30] shiny :) [19:34] WHAT? [19:34] hrm, that can't be right [19:34] 200MB? [19:34] * micahg tries again [19:35] haha.. obviously... [19:35] would've been too good [19:35] but doesn't it pull python2? [19:36] hrm...idk here [19:36] still same results [19:36] woot [19:36] desktop-core probably adds some stuff that's missing maybe [19:36] if it really clears 200MB... [19:36] but I think it's worth a shot [19:37] ok, let's just drop gimp [19:37] when will we know? [19:37] do we have a simple image editing thing to go in its place? [19:37] when the next ISO is made :) [19:37] no, we don't [19:38] that was investigated, but there simply isn't good ones [19:38] which will be tomorrow morning [19:38] what's ubuntu shipping? [19:38] ok, can we add a simple one in its place? [19:38] we can, but we need to decide which one [19:38] not the easiest task... :) [19:38] I'm not sure that Ubuntu has one [19:39] mmh [19:39] they have something for photo editing, I don't remember what [19:39] Bummer, though can you have an installer thingy like Kubuntu and firefox? [19:40] no, Kubuntu has that since their default is rekonq [19:40] doesn't gthumb do some photo stuff? [19:40] like rotate and that [19:41] ok, let's drop gimp and see where we are, then we can add back something for editing before beta 2 [19:42] micahg, is there some way to check manually how much we would benefit? [19:42] yeah, if someone had a proper setup to manually make a CD which I don't, xnox might [19:42] nope [19:42] JFDI & wait for a daily [19:43] folks on -release can do respins as well -/ [19:43] does ubuntu use f-spot? [19:43] it should be known around 10AM UTC tomorrow [19:44] xnox, mind the language;) [19:44] it means Just Fplease Do It :) [19:44] :P [19:45] knome: any reason not to upload this + the mahjongg drop? [19:46] micahg, no [19:46] micahg, well, users whining but i don't care [19:46] ok [19:46] they'll whine more if we don't fit on a CD [19:46] they can still install it [19:46] exactly [19:46] and it's just until we can drop gtk2/python2 [19:47] I reallly really really really want my cake and to eat it [19:47] well.. that could be long [19:47] micahg, what's still keeping python2? some xfce stuff? [19:47] We can make a gimp installer if someone really wants to [19:47] * micahg isn't sure right now [19:48] micahg, we can, but otoh, 12.10 is not an LTS, so there can be "experimental" stuff [19:48] xchat [19:48] blueman [19:49] hmph [19:49] only those? [19:49] various GNOMEish things [19:49] bleh [19:49] onboard [19:49] isn't gnome supposed to have migrated to gtk3? :P [19:49] oh wait, python2 [19:49] duh [19:49] :D [19:50] good news is seemingly no xfce stuff is holding it in [19:51] yeah [19:53] are you guys still discussing what to drop in xubuntu :) [19:53] pnarciso, yes [19:54] difficult decision [19:55] and how is bug squashing going along [19:55] slowly progressing [19:55] I've noticed that a new version of xfce4-settings lands that is supposed to fix the theming issues in the installer [19:56] uh... i don't think xfce4-settings is supposed to fix it ;) [19:56] but i might be wrong [19:56] maybe it is an issue on how to set themes [19:59] - 03_check-service-name.patch: check that NameOwnerChanged signals are [19:59] really intended for xfsettingsd (should hopefully fix unthemed/black [19:59] ubiquity windows). lp: #1010487 [19:59] k [19:59] this is part of the changelog of xfce4-settings [20:01] also another big bug that landed, was USC stopped launching with version 5.3.11 [20:01] Not an issue. :D [20:02] well, it is because is the default package manager [20:41] mr_pouit, feel free to go ahead and upload for bug #1048217 [20:41] Launchpad bug 1048217 in Ubuntu "[FFe] Re-introduce indicator-sound-gtk2/ido-gtk2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048217 [20:42] oh nice [21:27] so, indicator sound was reintroduced, how can I restore it back? [21:31] pnarciso: as long as the status isn't "fix released" the sound indicator hasn't been re-uploaded [21:31] ok, thanks for the explanation [21:32] gnome mahjongg and gimp were remove from desktop recommended, though [21:39] gimp removed ? [21:40] some programs need to be removed to meet the 700mb cd size [21:41] I understand the rational [21:41] but gimp ? was it that big ? [21:42] yeah, lots of dependencies [21:42] ow [21:42] gotcha [21:42] even it itself is big: apt-cache show gimp | grep ^Size [21:42] Size: 5314716 [21:44] are ristretto and gthumb still in ? [21:44] yes [21:45] How stable is midori as browser. Could it be a substitue for FF ? [21:45] midori lacks a lot of things [21:46] html5 support u mean [21:46] even a basic password storage [21:46] SkippersBoss, if we're going to replace FF, i think it would made sense to rethink TB too, and atm i don't think replacing those would be a good idea [21:47] Thats me told of :-) [21:47] yeah, both are pretty big, but it's hard to find better options out there [21:47] not having password storage in a browser is not such a bad thing though in this day and age [21:48] i believe those applications add to the xubuntu experience a lot [21:48] With the time I've spent with midori I don't think is a replacement [21:49] yet [21:49] I would replace FF only with Chromium [21:50] from my POV, the only considerable option for a browser for xubuntu is midori, but since that's not ready for it yet, i'll rather stick with FF [21:50] ah [21:50] :-) [21:50] well, that being said, anything is up for discussion [21:51] but i believe it doesn't make much sense to change to a different browser that has the same functionality, or a bit worse, since our users are accustomed to firefox [21:51] midori is a completely different thing, because it's supposed to be much lighter [21:51] Try xxxterm as a nice alternate browser (not for Xubu, for yourself. :P ) [21:51] So its not totally out. I m using it since opera keeps crashing. But yep it still needs some work done to it [21:51] however, it doesn't "do it" yet [21:51] And firefox guarantees that it will be current release throughout its lifetime [21:54] yes, midori is less resource intensive but it's way behind in features and the level of maintenance of firefox is much higher [21:55] we shouldn't compare midori (or other candidates) to FF or other "popular" browsers, we should compare them to the requirements we have in mind [21:56] eg. "which features should a web browser in xubuntu have" [21:56] pnarciso, I think knome made sence when he said that Yes midori is a consideration for XU but it is not there yet [21:56] hear hear [21:57] well, that should always be the starting point for any application that is considered for inclusion :9 [21:57] :) [21:57] I only wish that flash was abandoned completely, because it's not supported anymore in linux unless chrome is installed [21:57] i'm hoping that flash will generally phase out [21:57] Yes, please [21:57] but that doesn't have much to do with xubuntu :) [21:57] that's why opera keeps crashing :-( [21:57] Maybe by the next LTS, Flash will be gone. [21:58] I hope so [21:58] nah, flash has about 4.5 years of life left [21:58] when 11.2 is EOL, it won't be viable since it'll be chromium only [21:58] it's buggy on linux and adobe never bothered to fix it [21:58] or PPAPI only rather [21:59] micahg, probably until it's dead for good, but i think/hope web designers will start to phase out from it with the new html5 stuff :) [21:59] html5 is much faster [22:00] I'm a fan of anything that doesn't make my laptop a hovercraft [22:00] bluesabre, that just sounds like you need to buy a new laptop ;) [22:00] another way of fixing the issue [22:00] Yeah, well, that requires money :D [22:01] Grows on trees bluesabre [22:01] lol [22:02] They just announced more austerity measures in my country, so we keep gaining less and less... [22:02] not only in your country [22:04] this is full of corrupt politicians [22:04] lets take that discussion to OT [22:05] it's better :) [22:23] I was testing midori againt FF and midori must have some memory leaks because it takes 370 mb of ram compared to FF which take 120 playing the same youtube video [22:23] knome: ido-gtk2 and indicator-sound-gtk2 uploaded and waiting in new. Apparently cjwatson could review them if you ask him kindly :P [22:23] thanks. [22:23] np [22:24] mr_pouit, poked cjwatson [22:24] awesome [22:24] <: [22:25] pnarciso, midori is not a finished product yet. but in the near future hopefully there to replace FF [22:25] knome: micahg: also, you're going to hate me, but I'm going to waste some iso space to reinclude indicator-{application,sound}-gtk2 and xfce4-indicator-plugin by default /o\ [22:25] mr_pouit, ahhaha, how much? :P [22:26] mr_pouit: nah, should be fine hopefully [22:26] but yeah, we probablt want those anyway [22:27] so sound indicator is reintroduced, is there any hope for messaging? [22:27] pnarciso, check the status with bluesabre [22:27] euh have we dropped pidgin as well ? [22:27] SkippersBoss, no? [22:28] Pfew [22:28] what made you think we did? [22:28] pnarciso> so sound indicator is reintroduced, is there any hope for messaging? [22:28] my bad [22:28] (there's no hope for indicator-messages afaik, it won't work with xfce4-panel) [22:30] and xfce 4.12 won't have gtk3 support :( [22:30] mr_pouit, well yeah unless bluesabre makes it work ;] [22:34] my workaround for mail indicator, is to install a TB extension for it [22:39] hmm. the indicator stack is getting pretty crowded.. Maybe we could thing of having wome kind of drawer/bubble instead in the future [22:42] some kind