[00:18] <Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ Derpy.
[00:25] <SkippersBoss> ow
[00:28] <Unit193> zsync buggled up earlier today, tried again now and it was still buggled.
[00:29] <SkippersBoss> euh empty
[00:35] <SkippersBoss> i can't see a current folder
[01:32] <bluesabre> pnarciso, knome, mr_pouit: indicator-messages looks pretty hopeless to be honest.  I'm going to hack on it this week, but I don't expect to get anywhere.
[01:32] <micahg> bluesabre: the expectation is that we won't ship with it, anything else is a bonus :)
[01:33] <bluesabre> Good.  I'm meeting expectations then!  ;)
[12:21] <knome> micahg, looks like dropping gimp dropped the image size to 735 on amd, and 709 on i386
[12:32] <knome> micahg, dropping gnumeric would be over 10MB (gnumeric 2.5MB + gnumeric-common 4MB + gnumeric-doc 5MB)
[12:56] <micahg> knome: that's it :(
[12:57] <micahg> well, the korean fonts are about 5MB also
[13:02] <knome> if we dropped those and gnumeric, that would be 15MB+ more.
[13:03] <knome> that would mean i386 fits on a CD already
[13:04] <knome> let's do that.
[13:04] <knome> or do you think we shouldn't?
[13:05] <knome> would you rather drop one more language than gnumeric?
[13:08] <knome> korean fonts, xhosa, one western language and try to drop rest from smaller things?
[13:12] <knome> (like a few games)
[13:17] <micahg> do we think a spreadsheet is no longer needed in a default install?
[13:18] <knome> i don't think it is; does windows have onw?
[13:18] <knome> one too
[13:18] <micahg> idk
[13:18] <knome> or is it always a test version
[13:18] <knome> what do you think of the last idea?
[13:18] <knome> 16:08  knome: korean fonts, xhosa, one western language and try to drop rest from smaller things?
[13:18] <knome> at least we wouldn't drop any functionality
[13:19] <elfy> from an outside user point of view - I'd say it would be better to lose some languages and games than 'useful' things 
[13:20] <ablomen> knome, sort of, windows 8 offers you to install a version of microsoft works with adds if you try to open one
[13:20] <knome> if you are korean, korean fonts are useful :]
[13:20] <ablomen> *ads
[13:20] <knome> ablomen, aha, ok.. :P
[13:20] <bluesabre> Does ubiquity install your language pack if not installed when you select it?
[13:20] <elfy> knome: well yea ... 
[13:20] <micahg> western language I'm ok dropping
[13:20] <knome> micahg, xhosa isn't a "big" language either
[13:21] <knome> if we think it's better to drop western languages, i'm ok with dropping two of them too, but that would leave us with english and one, and that's a bit awkward imo
[13:23]  * micahg wishes xubuntu had a lighter help browser
[13:24] <knome> heh
[13:24] <knome> is there lighter ones for docbook :P
[13:28] <Sysi> how useful is gnumeric?
[13:28] <knome> very, if you need spreadsheet editing
[13:29] <knome> otoh, i think many that need, will want LO anyway
[13:29] <micahg> also, keep in mind we can install stuff not in the live env, so the question is, what needs to be in the live env
[13:29] <knome> micahg, well, gnumeric isn't needed in the live environment, if that gives us more space
[13:30] <elfy> I was not aware of that - learn something new everyday 
[13:30] <micahg> the catch is we have to remove whatever isn't in the live env from xubuntu-desktop
[13:30] <knome> aha
[13:30] <knome> so people need to install those apps manually, if they want to use them?
[13:31] <micahg> oh, hrm, maybe I'm imagining things
[13:32] <knome> hehe
[13:32]  * knome pats micahg on the head
[13:32] <knome> micahg, btw, will you be at UDS?
[13:33] <micahg> yes
[13:33] <knome> awesome! :)
[13:33]  * micahg thinks xchat should go
[13:33] <knome> how much?
[13:33] <knome> is the fish..
[13:34] <micahg> ~2.5MB
[13:34] <knome> have we agreed on some stuff already
[13:34] <knome> one western language goes?
[13:34] <knome> which one is the least spoken?
[13:35] <ochosi> hm, isn't xchat useful for ppl who want support from the live-system?
[13:35] <knome> ochosi, no, they can use webirc
[13:35] <ochosi> iirc the link in ubiquity opens xchat with the #xubuntu chan
[13:35] <knome> ochosi, no, it's webirc
[13:35] <micahg> pidgin has irc support
[13:35] <smartboyhw> ochosi: We use webchat.freenode.net then
[13:35] <ochosi> ok ok, then do away with it already :)
[13:35] <elfy> I tend to fire up pidgin in the live env
[13:35] <knome> ochosi, ;]
[13:36] <knome> i can live without xchat.
[13:36]  * elfy makes notes of what he needs to install post install :p
[13:36] <bluesabre> I used xchat, then I found that pidgin does IRC better
[13:36]  * smartboyhw can't live without xchat: No cloak on webchat
[13:37] <Sysi> statistically twitter client should be more used than irc one.. and there's pidgin anyway
[13:37] <micahg> hrm, do we need usb-creator-gtk?, it's pulling in udisks
[13:38] <Sysi> thunar or some part of xfce isn't using udisks?
[13:38] <micahg> udsisk2
[13:38] <micahg> *udisks2
[13:39] <knome> how many people are creating an usb disk from the live cd?
[13:40]  * micahg would think not many
[13:40] <knome> me too
[13:40]  * elfy wouldn't either
[13:40] <knome> how much?
[13:41]  * smartboyhw uses Unetbootin to load the ISO into the USB
[13:41] <elfy> from a livecd?
[13:41] <smartboyhw> No, from an ISO, but then if I do that I will just copy the contents lol
[13:41] <micahg> knome: I think at least 1MB
[13:41] <knome> micahg, well...:)
[13:42] <bluesabre> I've done it once, but only because usb-creator-gtk is currently broken in Q
[13:42] <ochosi> maybe i missed an important point, but why are we so very much oversized anyway?
[13:42] <micahg> python2/3, gtk2/3
[13:42] <ochosi> why do we need python2?
[13:42] <ochosi> pidgin?
[13:43] <ochosi> or something else?
[13:43] <micahg> most of the archive still needs it :)
[13:43] <bluesabre> I can upgrade catfish whenever needed
[13:43] <micahg> blueman, gdb
[13:44] <ochosi> meh
[13:44] <ochosi> so what needs python3 then?
[13:44] <knome> lol
[13:44] <micahg> apport and some other core infrastructure
[13:44] <bluesabre> probably usc
[13:44] <ochosi> oh man
[13:45] <ochosi> we're lucky this isn't the LTS
[13:49] <micahg> knome: ok, how about dropping usb-creator-gtk, gnumeric, and making the 2 western languages and the korean fonts i386 only?
[13:49] <knome> micahg, are you sure we'll fit, or is that an estimate?
[13:49] <micahg> that's an estimate
[13:50] <knome> gnumeric will definitely get us below 700 in i386
[13:50] <micahg> you want usb creator i386 only as well?
[13:51] <knome> i suppose we can drop it completely
[13:51] <knome> let's have some playing space
[13:51] <knome> but i'd still make 1 western lanugage and xhosa i386 only
[13:51] <micahg> ok
[13:52] <knome> and for that, you'll have my ack :)
[13:53] <micahg> which one, fr, es, pt?
[13:53]  * knome refers to wikipedia
[13:53] <knome> pt 208 million native
[13:54] <knome> fr 115 million
[13:54] <knome> sp 400 million
[13:54] <knome> fr it is then
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Bye france:)
[13:54] <micahg> hrm, fonts-nanum would be funny as it's in -desktop, so amd64 would install a different set of pacakges than i386
[13:55] <knome> heh
[13:55] <knome> is that the korean fonts package, or just one of them?
[13:55] <micahg> that's the korean fonts package
[13:55] <knome> what if we just drop them altogether then?
[13:56] <micahg> we could, idk what impact that would have on those users though
[13:57] <knome> they would need to simply install that package?
[13:57] <knome> :)
[14:00] <micahg> well, maybe let's see where we're at tomorrow with these changes?
[14:00] <micahg> before dropping the korean fonts
[14:00] <knome> can you list one more time what the current proposal is?
[14:01] <micahg> 2 languages i386 only, drop gnumeric (until space appears), drop usb-creator-gtk (permanent)
[14:01] <knome> and languages are xh and fr
[14:01] <micahg> yes
[14:01] <knome> ok, let's do that
[14:02] <micahg> ok, uploading new meta
[14:02] <knome> thanks again
[14:02] <knome> should we ask for a respin+
[14:02] <knome> +=?
[14:03] <micahg> oh, let me add back the indicator stuff that's already in th archive
[14:03] <knome> sure
[14:14] <elfy> quick put everything back 
[14:15] <smartboyhw> !?
[14:19] <bluesabre> lol elfy
[14:20] <elfy> :)
[14:20] <smartboyhw> lol
[16:13] <ochosi> maybe we should consider pragha as music player for xubuntu since it already uses greybird for the screenshots :p
[16:14] <ochosi> http://pragha.wikispaces.com/Screenshots
[16:14] <Sysi> (that player is *awful* in my opinion)
[16:14] <ochosi> heh
[16:15] <knome> hah, where's greybird? :P
[16:15] <ochosi> i assume you didn't like exaile much either, hm?
[16:15] <knome> right, gtk3
[16:15] <ochosi> knome: http://pragha.wikispaces.com/file/view/pragha-greybird.png/359212265/800x483/pragha-greybird.png
[16:23] <Sysi> I hardly remember exaile
[16:25] <micahg> knome: did we want to drop xchat also?
[16:27] <knome> i lost my backlog
[16:27] <knome> but let's see what we get with the other changes first
[16:39] <pnarciso> I see that i386 iso is much smaller now
[16:40] <pnarciso> 709mb
[16:41] <pnarciso> x64 is 735mb
[16:49] <knome> yes
[18:21] <bluesabre> mr_pouit, micahg: For the debian control file, if there are no Recommenends, do you remove that line, or leave it blank after the ":"?
[18:21] <bluesabre> *Recommends
[18:24] <micahg> bluesabre: remove
[18:24] <bluesabre> thanks micahg
[18:24] <micahg> sure
[18:26] <micahg> knome: don't forget that the documentation needs to be updated for all the default changes we've made
[19:02] <knome> micahg, i won't
[23:41] <pleia2> yay, someone replied on -doc!
[23:42] <pleia2> rocket2dmn is great, we used to both be in the pennsylvania loco, I didn't know he was still around doing doc stuff