[00:04] <SkippersBoss> oh
[00:05] <SkippersBoss> ok
[00:05] <SkippersBoss> oops wrong window
[08:43] <knome> pleia2, great
[09:12] <ochosi> knome: why are there still open issues for xfce410 here? http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html
[09:13] <knome> ochosi, those aren't in xubuntu
[09:13] <knome> they are bugs filed against qimo-session and mythbuntu-default-settings
[09:13] <ochosi> oh right
[09:13] <knome> but i believe mr_pouit wants to keep them linked to our blueprint to track the status, or something
[09:14] <knome> micahg, if not, please unlink :P
[09:17] <knome> eh
[09:17] <knome> wrong tabfill
[09:18] <smartboyhw> :)
[09:47] <knome> anybody around with a Q installation handy?
[09:48] <smartboyhw> knome: Does Ubuntu Studio Q count?
[09:48] <knome> no
[09:48] <smartboyhw> alright then:)
[09:48] <Unit193> Well, kinda.
[09:49] <knome> kinda?
[09:49] <smartboyhw> ?
[09:51] <knome> booting my desktop up
[10:10] <knome> aha, my Q vbox is not bootable
[10:11] <Unit193> It isn't handy, but if it is needed badly...
[10:11] <knome> well, i'm installing new one :)
[10:11] <knome> no problem..
[10:11] <knome> heh
[10:11] <knome> installer died with unexpected error
[10:12] <knome> ochosi!!!
[10:15] <Unit193> So, what's up?
[10:15] <knome> http://typewith.me/p/x-qa-desktoptest
[10:15] <knome> making that work
[10:15] <knome> need to check some default settings and how we expect things to be
[10:16] <knome> if you see things that should be fixed, just go ahead
[10:17] <Unit193> Ah, more involved than I hoped for 06:17. :P
[10:18] <knome> haha
[10:18] <knome> well, you don't *need* to ;)
[10:19] <knome> yeah, irc.ubuntu.com is the default on pidgin
[10:20] <knome> audio cd
[10:20] <knome> do i have one handy
[10:20] <knome> do i have 500 handy
[10:20] <knome> :P
[10:20] <Unit193> Pidgin doesn't count...
[10:20] <knome> why doesn't it count?
[10:22] <Unit193> Barely handles IRC, wasn't designed for it. :P  (Sister uses it. :(  )
[10:23] <knome> does irc well enough for support questions
[10:23] <knome> or "hi"
[10:23] <knome> *run*
[10:24] <knome> how can i make an audio disc an .iso, or can i?
[10:24] <knome> do we have audio cd automount on by default?
[10:24] <knome> yeah, parole should play
[10:24] <Unit193> Great, I boot the vm and start hitting things, etherpad is broken...
[10:24] <knome> yeah
[10:24] <knome> :|
[10:24] <davmor2> Unit193: Pidgin handles irc fairly well empathy is better now but still not as good, xchat for a real gui irc client though
[10:25] <knome> hai davmor2 
[10:25] <Unit193> It is Help > Contents
[10:25] <knome> and not?
[10:25] <Unit193> Not sure if it was "Help contents", that's why I was looking.
[10:25] <knome> ok
[10:26] <knome> seeing if i can hit that installer error again...
[10:26] <knome> yeah, i can
[10:26] <knome> ochosi!!!
[10:26] <Unit193> Memory is faulty at 06:26 (or all the time, but more now)
[10:27] <Unit193> davmor2: Meh, well in some areas, lacking in many others (I remember notices failing, autojoin/reconnecting flooding you off network, and several other fun issues)
[10:28] <davmor2> Unit193: but for general chat it is fine the same as empathy.  as I say xchat is the better irc only client
[10:28] <knome> well yeah, pidgin is obviously not good for serious ircing
[10:28] <knome> but it's fine enough if you irc now and then
[10:29] <davmor2> knome: agree there are a lot of people in the commercial team use pidgin for irc all day everyday cause it does what they need it to do
[10:29] <Unit193> Quassel has that handy core feature if you must GUI it, hexchat is good on windows and seems to have builds for linux now that xchat is getting outdated, but I like my irssi. :)
[10:30] <knome> mm.
[10:30] <davmor2> Unit193: but quassel pull in more libs than anyone should ever need
[10:31] <davmor2> Unit193: yeah but irssi is really unintuitive for a new user
[10:31] <Unit193> libdbusmenu-qt2 libindicate-qt1 libphonon4 phonon phonon-backend-gstreamer quassel-client-qt4 quassel-data  if you already have VLC on Xubuntu. (testing/tested quassel to see what the fuss was about, and to see the core feature)
[10:32] <Unit193> davmor2: Yep, that it is.
[10:33] <davmor2> Unit193: yeah but there is all the QT libs to install on top of that plus if you start pulling in some of the plugins it needs some kde specific things so pulls in all the KDE core libs too
[10:34] <knome> yup, irssi is definitely baffling for a new user.
[10:34] <Unit193> I'm not saying it is small, but if you get the right package it isn't as bad.
[10:34] <knome> no way i could get most of my friends ever use it
[10:34] <Unit193> knome: Why I can't clicky?
[10:34] <knome> clicky what?
[10:34] <knome> oh right
[10:34] <knome> meh
[10:39] <ochosi> knome: ???
[10:39] <Unit193> ochosi!
[10:39] <knome> ochosi, nothing, it wasn't you.
[10:40] <ochosi> a-ha, you know you pinged me twice, right? :)
[10:41] <knome> ochosi, i know.
[10:41] <Unit193> Easiest to blame you.
[10:42] <knome> ochosi, yeah, ubiquity was broken and i obviously thought it was you, but it was a known
[10:43] <ochosi> hehe
[10:43] <ochosi> yeah, i'm maintaining ubiquity now :)
[10:43] <knome> SHINY
[10:43] <knome> 705MB for amd64
[10:44] <knome> ochosi, yeah, we run parole for audio cd's by default
[10:44] <ochosi> knome: i cannot have broken ubiquity even a little, the branch is still waiting: https://code.launchpad.net/ubiquity/+activereviews
[10:44] <knome> ochosi, and yeah, irc.ubuntu.com is the defult irc server
[10:44] <knome> ochosi, haha, ok ;)
[10:44] <knome> ochosi, maybe poke people...
[10:44] <ochosi> so please give cjwatson or whoever a push
[10:44] <knome> Unit193, etherpad works now
[10:45] <ochosi> knome: did you propose a branch already for the new wallpaper?
[10:45] <knome> ochosi, no
[10:45] <knome> ochosi, if you have time to do that, please do
[10:45] <knome> Unit193, and fixed what you said was wrong previously
[10:46] <ochosi> and btw, i agree that we should put a generic symlink like "xubuntu-wallpaper" pointing the most recent one there
[10:46] <Unit193> Seems I did remember rith, seewrt.
[10:46] <knome> works for me
[10:46] <ochosi> then we don't have to modify ubiquity every single release
[10:46] <knome> true
[10:47] <ochosi> mr_pouit: can we add a generic symlink "xubuntu-wallpaper" so that we don't have to update ubiquity for each release? and: can we still add it for 12.10? (just to know what kind of modification we propose to ubiquity)
[10:47] <knome> ochosi, can you handle it with mr_pouit? i can handle the UIFes and stuff
[10:47] <ochosi> knome: i guess, at least if he gets back to me :)
[10:52] <knome> ochosi, ok, thanks. i can also poke him if he doesn't
[10:52] <knome> ochosi, i also told cjwatson your stuff is ready (again)
[10:52] <ochosi> yup, you're the poker-face
[10:52] <knome> haha, i was looking for my ring
[10:52] <knome> too close...
[11:07] <Unit193> knome: Shouldn't #ubuntu-packaging: Packaging for Ubuntu, including new packages, PPA packages, etc.  For working on Ubuntu, see  #ubuntu-devel, for writing applications, see #ubuntu-app-devel
[11:07] <Unit193> Ignore that....
[11:08] <Unit193> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy shouldn't that be linked to for "Ubuntu philosophy"?
[11:35] <mips1911> do you guys think xfce 4.12 will make it into xubuntu 13.04 in time?
[11:37] <ochosi> nope
[11:37] <mips1911> ochosi, so 13.04 will still feature 4.10 then? Apparantly 4.12 release is scheduled for March which leaves very little time.
[11:38] <ochosi> mips1911: apparently you don't know that much about xfce's release schedules :}
[11:38] <ochosi> it usually takes considerably longer than planned
[11:38] <knome> Unit193, huh? :)
[11:38] <mips1911> yeah, usually late
[11:38] <ochosi> and in fact not much has happened since 4.10
[11:40] <Unit193> knome: Where it says "Ubuntu philosophy", it points to "The Ubuntu Story"
[11:40] <Unit193> Menu > Help
[11:40] <knome> hmm
[11:40] <knome> right
[11:40] <knome> that's fixed in the new docs
[11:40] <knome> *will be
[11:41] <Unit193> Bleh...
[11:41] <knome> :)
[11:41] <knome> Unit193, bzr branch lp:~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs
[11:41] <knome> Unit193, and build :P
[11:41] <knome> should be already fixed in that branch
[11:49] <knome> Unit193, you will probabyly need: gnome-doc-utils, docbook and docbook-utils to be able to 'make'
[11:51] <ochosi> knome: i just took a brief look at plymouth
[11:51] <ochosi> i think i might be able to fix the background-scaling
[11:51] <ochosi> furthermore i'm proposing to replace the wallpaper there with a symlink
[11:51] <knome> ochosi, ok
[11:52] <knome> ochosi, ++
[11:52] <ochosi> it's stupid that we ship the same wallpaper in several places
[11:52] <knome> heh
[11:52] <knome> agreed.
[11:52] <ochosi> but i need mr_pouit for that again :)
[11:52] <knome> yeah
[11:52] <knome> do you think you'd have *any* time to look at the xorg bug and probably get it reverted (for the 1px borders)
[11:52] <knome> i mean, not fix it, but find somebody who can or find somebody who could revert that "fix"
[11:53] <ochosi> that's too much for me to debug
[11:53] <knome> i'm not talking about debugging
[11:53] <ochosi> i think someone more able should do that
[11:53] <ochosi> well i have to debug it if we want to able to get it reverted
[11:53] <knome> yes, but i was asking whether you could take time to find somebody?
[11:53] <ochosi> we have to know _what_ to revert
[11:53] <ochosi> i wouldn't know who to ask
[11:53] <ochosi> i already talked to olivier and a few others
[11:53] <knome> me neither really, so...
[11:53] <knome> :)
[11:54] <ochosi> and for just asking around no, i'm already busy enough with lightdm and plymouth
[11:54] <knome> i'd talk to somebody who knows xorg or is familiar with ubuntu packaging
[11:54] <knome> ok, fine
[11:54] <knome> no problems
[11:54] <knome> just asking :)
[11:54] <ochosi> np :)
[11:54] <knome> i will need to see if i have time for that myself
[11:55] <knome> if not, i assume you are ready to push the 2px border fix?
[11:55] <ochosi> or you find someone else who can then in turn find someone else...
[11:55] <knome> i'd say deadline is 18 or 19 this month
[11:55] <knome> lol
[11:55] <ochosi> ready as in "i'm prepared to do it"
[11:55] <knome> heh, good ;)
[11:55] <ochosi> i haven't prepared the patch yet
[11:55] <knome> yeah, i'll try to see what i can do
[11:55] <knome> yeah, but that's trivial
[11:55] <knome> maybe we should test it ASAP anyway :P
[11:56] <knome> while i know it works, still...
[11:56] <knome> i don't want to miss the beta2 freeze with this
[11:56] <ochosi> btw, from what i read on the web, i might be able to animate those 12.10 buttons in plymouth :)
[11:56] <knome> aha
[11:56] <knome> what do you mean with "animate"?
[11:57] <knome> draw them manually?
[11:57] <ochosi> fade-in fade-out
[11:57] <knome> aha
[11:57] <knome> ok
[11:57] <knome> worksforme
[11:57] <ochosi> well in fact the whole scaling problem is no problem at all
[11:57] <knome> but let's just get the scaling issue fixed first ;)
[11:57] <ochosi> for the simple bg scaling doesn't matter
[11:57] <ochosi> we could get dots in as separate pixmaps
[11:57] <ochosi> so they wouldn't be scaled (same as with logotype)
[11:57] <knome> yes, worksforme, and i can export them for you today
[11:57] <ochosi> and then animating them is just a few more lines
[11:58] <knome> but does that mean we would have to have a circleless wall image?
[11:58] <ochosi> not sure when i have time for it
[11:58] <ochosi> yes
[11:58] <knome> yeah...
[11:58] <ochosi> we need that anyway, lightdm scaling isn't fixed yet :)
[11:58] <knome> can you promise 17 at latest?
[11:58] <knome> (that's monday)
[11:58] <ochosi> no, no promises :}
[11:58] <knome> beta2 freeze is thursday, and as said, i don't want to miss that
[11:59] <ochosi> i'd say throw in the circleless wallpapers anyway
[11:59] <knome> aha
[11:59] <ochosi> as i said, we need it for lightdm and all anyway
[11:59] <knome> i'd need to have a bug
[11:59] <knome> to get a UIFe
[11:59] <ochosi> report one ;)
[11:59] <knome> ...
[11:59] <knome> i can handle the UIFe, if you can handle the bug
[11:59] <knome> or find somebody that does
[11:59] <knome> :P
[11:59] <ochosi> nah, you don't get me so easily! :)
[12:00] <knome> i need to go soon anyway
[12:00] <mips1911> Any news on Bug #1039375 ?
[12:01] <knome> not that i know of
[12:01] <ochosi> knome: i'll do a plymouth animation for 13.04, i don't need the extra stress now. so let's just get that circleless wallpaper in
[12:01] <knome> ochosi, well, the bug is simple: just say we need the wallpaper for lightdm and plymouth ;]
[12:01] <knome> ochosi, and add patches ;]
[12:01] <ochosi> knome: yeah, so go report it ;)
[12:02] <knome> haha
[12:02] <knome> yeah
[12:02] <knome> i need to go
[12:02] <ochosi> cya
[12:02] <knome> i'll put that on my "get somebody to do" list
[12:02] <ochosi> seriously, that sounds like more effort than just reporting that bug yourself
[12:02] <ochosi> but go ahead, it's your life :]
[12:02] <knome> lol, the patches don't
[12:03] <knome> i also want to make the community feel as if they belong here
[12:03] <knome> so they'd better do something >:)
[12:03] <knome> i mean, it's a small thing yeah, but it's something anybody can do.
[12:03] <ochosi> "as if" -> as in: they _in fact_ don't belong :D
[12:03] <knome> haha
[12:03] <knome> ;)
[12:03] <ochosi> k, hf!
[12:04] <knome> you just gave up my "little" secret...
[12:04] <knome> oh noes!
[12:04] <knome> well i'm not in a too much hurry
[12:04] <knome> just didn't want to file the bug now
[12:07] <knome> but yeah, see you later
[12:07] <knome> ->
[13:11] <micahg> knome: 705/691 :)
[16:15] <ochosi> yes, ubiquity finally looks alright again
[16:23] <ochosi> knome: the abiword screenshot is still old in ubiquity
[16:24] <pnarciso> hello all
[16:24] <ochosi> hi pnarciso 
[16:25] <pnarciso> I've noticed that iso are finally at 705mb
[16:26] <pnarciso> what was removed?
[16:26] <Unit193> gimp
[16:26] <pnarciso> only gimp
[16:27] <Unit193> That was the main thing, they've been trimming everything they could hunt down.
[16:29] <micahg> gimp, gnumeric, mahjongg, and some languages and fonts on amd64
[16:30] <ochosi> hey micahg 
[16:30] <micahg> hi ochosi
[16:32] <Unit193> Ah, gnumeric is another bigger application.
[16:33] <ochosi> i guess since we've removed gnumeric we have to update the installer-slideshow
[16:33] <pnarciso> We have the option to install them later, so no bug deal
[16:33] <pnarciso> We have the option to install them later, so no big deal
[16:34] <ochosi> yes, but we're still informing ppl about the default setup
[16:34] <ochosi> in the installer-slideshow
[16:34] <ochosi> otherwise we could also inform them about rhythmbox or libreoffice
[16:34] <pnarciso> yes
[16:35] <pnarciso> USC was fixed today
[16:35] <pnarciso> it's functional again
[16:39] <pnarciso> window border are still broken though, xserver 1.13 official still have the bug
[16:39] <ochosi> yes, i'm considering to push the workaround soon
[16:41] <pnarciso> partitions still appear duplicated on thunar and desktop
[16:45] <bluesabre_> ochosi: Your workaround being the 2px window borders, or have you found another fix?
[16:45] <ochosi> bluesabre_: yeah, that.
[16:45] <ochosi> bluesabre_: i'll first try more elaborate versions/combinations of using the transparent outer-pixel
[16:45] <ochosi> maybe i can find a way to get it working
[16:45] <ochosi> but i'm rather pessimistic tbh
[16:45] <bluesabre_> That might be an interesting approach
[16:45] <bluesabre_> :D
[16:46] <ochosi> well, the weird thing is that for the bottom it works
[16:46] <ochosi> i already use the transparent px there
[16:46] <ochosi> but for right and left it creates those corruptions
[16:46] <bluesabre_> ah, gotcha
[16:52] <ochosi> i think i might've to increase the border around the whole thing to make it look ok
[16:54] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09112012-065413pm.php
[16:55] <pnarciso> top and bottom must be increased
[17:02] <bluesabre_> Wow, it would be nice if they fixed the xserver bug :)
[18:22] <knome> ochosi, yeah
[18:22] <knome> ochosi, true dat (the screenshot)
[18:22] <knome> and documentation too, but that i already mentally knew
[18:27] <knome> http://typewith.me/p/x-q-beta2-prep
[18:34] <elfy> knome - are there any other changes to see than removing gnumeric? 
[18:34] <elfy> s/seed
[18:34] <knome> we removed gimp and gnumeric
[18:35] <knome> those are the big changes
[18:35] <knome> in addition, we dropped mahjongg, two languages (fr+xh) and korean fonts
[18:35] <knome> that brought us under 700 on i386
[18:35] <knome> still a few megs oversized on amd64
[18:36] <elfy> ok - just going to go through the new docs for gnumeric/gimp then 
[18:36] <knome> ok, thanks
[18:36] <knome> i should get started with the docs conversion to docbook
[18:36] <knome> if anybody wants to help...
[18:36] <knome> (it's just xml, and the syntax is really easy to grasp, maybe could work on it together on a pad or so)
[18:37]  * elfy has never ever looked at it - nor xml 
[18:37] <knome> well, it's easy to to grasp, if you're familiar even with (x)html only
[18:38] <elfy> sorry - you'd spend more time showing me I suspect 
[18:38] <knome> i don't think so :D
[18:38] <knome> converting takes a human age.. ;)
[18:38] <elfy> lol
[18:38] <elfy> if I could pick it up then I'll look
[18:38] <knome> let's say copy-pasting stuff to the pad would help a bunch :D
[18:39] <knome> let's see if i'm up to it sometime when you are online
[18:39] <elfy> oh right - I expect I can manage that 
[18:39] <knome> the good thing is that the docs won't build if there are errors ;)
[18:39] <knome> so we *will* get it right
[18:39] <elfy> okey doke - I'm busy tomorrow - but other than that I'm mostly about 
[18:39] <knome> okay, good to know
[18:40] <knome> don't want to pour too much on your glass, but don't want to burn out myself either :D
[18:40] <elfy> ping me - if I'm about I'll answer 
[18:40] <elfy> #ubuntuforums is a good place to look for me if I am not here 
[18:40] <knome> mm-hmm
[18:40] <elfy> yep - I understand 
[18:40] <knome> i'll find you by your nick when the night falls >:)
[18:41] <elfy> :)
[18:45] <elfy> you want to remove references to either completely - or just word it "you can install" instead of "installed by default" 
[18:45] <elfy> knome: ^^
[18:46] <knome> maybe "you can install" for gnumeric, but remove completely for gimp
[18:46] <elfy> ok
[19:08] <elfy> knome: did gimp - gnumeric was just done it seems
[19:09] <knome> elfy, heh, ok :)
[19:09] <knome> thanks
[19:21] <SkippersBoss> i do have some uses
[19:23] <elfy> I saw that :)