[06:05] <ivoks> /win 21
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:41] <_ruben> aww .. packages.ubuntu.com dead?
[07:45] <_ruben> uhh .. the diff.gz for nagios3 is like twice the size of the orig.tgz
[07:47] <_ruben> appears to be a bunch of autogenerated files in it
[10:32] <alo21> can some tell me when I can upgrade a pakage (after feature freeze)?
[10:33] <tumbleweed> if you are waiting until the freeze is over, that's: when we've released
[10:33] <alo21> tumbleweed: for example this package (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lives/+bug/1042627) is in building,
[10:34] <alo21> tumbleweed: why?
[10:34] <tumbleweed> alo21: sorry, I can't understand what you are asking
[10:35] <alo21> tumbleweed: the package above is 'In Progress'. I did not understand why
[10:35] <tumbleweed> presumably because quadrispro is updating it
[10:35] <tumbleweed> the feature freeze isn't an absolute ban on new versions
[10:35] <tumbleweed> we just want to avoid anything risky
[10:36] <tumbleweed> so, the rule of thumb is to look for bug fixes and avoid new features
[10:36] <alo21> tumbleweed: is that an exception?
[10:39] <tumbleweed> it looks like it has some new features, so updating it should involve filing for an FFe. Iit's a leaf package, and not on any images, so it'd almost certainly be approved
[10:41] <alo21> tumbleweed: what do you mena with 'leaf package'? Why it will not on any images?
[10:42] <alo21> mean*
[10:42] <tumbleweed> nothing depends on it
[10:42] <tumbleweed> it's not on any images, because none of the ubuntu flavours want it and have space for it
[10:44] <alo21> tumbleweed: so... Could I, hypothetically, upgrade other package now, to include in Ubuntu 12.10?
[10:45] <Laney> we're focusing on fixing bugs
[10:45] <Laney> so if they further that aim, ye
[10:45] <Laney> s
[10:45] <alo21> Laney: usaully all package upgrade includes new features too
[10:45] <alo21> usually*
[10:46] <Laney> not always, and sometimes it is worth it
[10:47] <xnox> alo21: we distinguish "new features" from "bug fixes"
[10:47] <xnox> alo21: but there is line where one blends into another
[10:47] <alo21> it is good idea to ask if a package will be accepted, before upgrade it
[10:47] <alo21> ?
[10:48] <tumbleweed> it's required
[10:48] <tumbleweed> right now, we're trying to make the release better, not worse. And we don't mind missing new versions of things, if we can improve the release as a whole
[10:48] <alo21> tumbleweed: where have I to ask? here?
[10:49] <tumbleweed> !ffe | alo21
[10:54] <Laney> alo21: If you're looking for a list of things to work on, 'upgrade-software-version' might not be the best at this point (due to the freeze).
[10:55] <alo21> Laney: whre should I ook now?
[10:55] <Laney> You could investigate packages listed here http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB and on the following table ("and Quantal has local changes") for bug fixes in Debian that we might want in Ubuntu
[10:57] <alo21> Laney: are they all bug fix upgrade?
[10:57] <Laney> not necessarily, you get to investigate and make judgement calls
[10:57] <Laney> which is part of the fun :-)
[11:01] <alo21> Laney: we import package from unstable debian. Right?
[11:02] <Laney> by default, yes, but we can take from testing too. Those lists point you at testing, which is likely to be a good idea, because it is currently frozen too.
[11:05] <alo21> ok... thanks averybody
[12:52] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: Hello, I've done the buildeb work :) thank you for this article :)
[12:53] <MohamedAlaa98> *that
[12:57] <micahg> MohamedAlaa98: you're welcome
[12:59] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: but now I have a problem with pbuilder
[12:59] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: Unmet dependencies Error
[13:00] <micahg> pastebin please
[13:00] <MohamedAlaa98> ok :) give me a minute :)
[13:18] <MohamedAlaa98_> sorry the connection was lost
[13:18] <MohamedAlaa98_> Did I lose something?
[13:19] <ogra_> MohamedAlaa98_, your connection
[13:22] <MohamedAlaa98_> ogra_: yes
[13:24] <exodus> haha
[13:26] <MohamedAlaa98_> ogra_: I mean when I was away :)
[13:27] <MohamedAlaa98_> micahg: hah? any news?
[13:28] <Laney> your pastebin didn't come through.
[13:28] <MohamedAlaa98_> oops
[13:28] <MohamedAlaa98_> np :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200517/
[13:28] <MohamedAlaa98_> sorry internet connection is bad here :)
[13:32] <MohamedAlaa98_> oops :)
[13:33] <MohamedAlaa98_> np :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200517/
[13:34] <MohamedAlaa98_> micahg: sorry for late :( http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200517/
[13:34] <micahg> mohamedAlaa98: what release are you building for?
[13:35] <MohamedAlaa98_> precise
[13:35] <MohamedAlaa98_> micahg: prcise
[13:35] <MohamedAlaa98_> *precise
[13:37] <micahg> mohamedAlaa98: you're probably missing the pbuilder update step
[13:37] <micahg> oh, no, you need to enable universe
[13:38] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: in the pbuilder base?
[13:42] <micahg> yeah
[13:43] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: how can I enable it?
[13:43] <micahg> someone else will have to help you with that
[13:44] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe_support ?
[13:44]  * Laney hasn't done this for a long time
[13:44] <MohamedAlaa98> micahg: however, thank you for you support :)
[13:44] <Laney> even back in the day I was a pbuilder-dist user
[13:45] <MohamedAlaa98> Laney: cool
[13:47] <MohamedAlaa98> Laney: Thank you, trying that :)
[13:47] <exodus> Laney, have motu's stopped using pbuilder for another something else?
[13:47] <Laney> people use whatever they want to use
[13:48] <exodus> Obviously, but I mean, you said back in the day, what do you use now?
[13:48] <Laney> sbuild
[13:48] <MohamedAlaa98> Laney: I think this information should be in the packaging guide
[13:49] <Laney> the packaging guide tells you to use pbuilder-dist, which gets this right.
[13:50] <Laney> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html#set-up-pbuilder
[13:50] <exodus> Laney, Do you know any good documentaion on sbuild that I can take a look at other than http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild that you can recommend me?
[13:51] <Laney> that looks alright, but there is a helpful script called mk-sbuild in the ubuntu-dev-tools package that will create the initial environment for you
[13:51] <Laney> e.g. mk-sbuild quantal
[13:52] <Laney> back later
[13:56] <exodus> Laney, thanks. I'll have a look at that.
[14:06] <MohamedAlaa98> Laney: you are awesome! :) That article really helped me :) Thanks :)
[14:10] <smartboyhw> Excuse me what are the best channels on asking about fixing bugs?
[14:11] <exodus> smartboyhw, fixing bugs, my guess is here. Reporting them: #ubuntu-bugs
[14:11] <smartboyhw> OK thanks
[14:11] <smartboyhw> I need to use it to write a Ubuntu Accomplishments test
[14:11] <exodus> smartboyhw, of course, we're talking in the Ubuntu context.
[14:11] <smartboyhw> -test
[14:12] <smartboyhw> exodus: yes
[16:57] <alo21> hi. I found a package which can be upgraded (http://changelog.debian.net/ding). It could be?
[17:02] <jtaylor> alo21: that does not look like we need it for quantal
[17:02] <jtaylor> just modernizing the packaging, no bugfixes
[17:02] <jtaylor> at this point in the cycle we avoid these types of changes
[17:02] <micahg> alo21: once a new version gets in the next release, you can always request a backport as well
[17:05] <alo21> jtaylor: This (http://changelog.debian.net/arora)? Is it too generic?
[17:06] <jtaylor> alo21: depends what changed in the upstream version
[17:06] <jtaylor> if bugfix only it might be ok
[17:06] <jtaylor> if you want to look for stuff that can be synced look for stuff that went into debian wheezy after the 10. Aug
[17:07] <jtaylor> those got unblocks from the debian release team and are thus almost always appropriate to sync
[17:07] <jtaylor> if quantal is not too far behind
[17:08] <alo21> jtaylor: is (http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedandlocalinB) --> Outdated in Quantal the right place?
[17:08] <Laney> perhaps look at packages where the upstream version (before the last "-") is the same in Debian and Ubuntu
[17:08] <Laney> there might be packaging fixes we want there
[17:09]  * micahg thinks it's early enough to file FFes for anything that includes dropping dpatch :)
[17:09] <micahg> *almost
[17:09] <micahg> *almost anything
[17:09] <Laney> why?
[17:09] <micahg> dpatch is a pain and should die
[17:10] <Laney> I don't see how it's particularly pressing now
[17:10] <xnox> micahg: unless it makes dpatch fall out of main, I don't think it's a good enough reason to be in a FFe at all
[17:10] <micahg> pressing? no, if we can get it with minimal work and it's reasonable, why not?
[17:10] <xnox> micahg: what were your reasons for dropping sqlite?
[17:10] <micahg> no, not in and of itself, but it's bonus points
[17:10] <Laney> I wouldn't consider it a convincing argument for a freeze exception
[17:11] <xnox> micahg: e.g. is sqlite language bindings acceptable or do you want sqlite2 die a silent death ASAP
[17:11] <micahg> xnox: upstream dead for 5+ years, no security support
[17:11] <xnox> micahg: I see.
[17:11] <xnox> micahg: I have a response from Debian GPE maitnainers and GPE upstream
[17:12]  * micahg needs to ping the Debian maintainer again, it really shouldn't be part of wheezy
[17:12] <micahg> but alas, it's probably too late
[17:12] <xnox> micahg: when was our next motu meeting or did I miss it?
[17:12]  * xnox should add it to the calendar
[17:12] <micahg> xnox: next week
[17:12] <micahg> xnox: what's the response?
[17:13] <xnox> micahg: GPE upstream is alive, but development is on life support, Debian maintainer will not recommend implementing sqlite2 -> 3 to the upstream, I don't see how it is useful.
[17:14] <xnox> micahg: GPE is actually a desktop environment which requries a kernel & X - but can run something what looks like a smart phone from the 1999
[17:14] <xnox> micahg: with popcon 0
[17:14] <micahg> xnox: what will the GPE maintainers do when sqlite2 is yanked from Debian?
[17:15] <xnox> micahg: http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/gallery/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=historybook&id=gpe_conf_applets
[17:15] <xnox> micahg: well, that didn't happen yet, so who knows.
[17:16] <xnox> micahg: I suspect it can/could be yanked from stable/testing. But I don't see it being yanked from unstable.
[17:16] <alo21> jtaylor: I found here the email request (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=634817), but I cannot see any previous changelog
[17:16] <xnox> micahg: my concern with sqlite is that sqlite3 cannot read sqlite database for at least conversion purposes to sqlite3 database
[17:16] <xnox> unless I am mistaken.
[17:16] <micahg> alo21: we have 0.11 in quantal
[17:16] <micahg> xnox: yeah, it's a problem AIUI
[17:17] <xnox> micahg: so for example I am ok with keeping it, but dropping the shared library.
[17:18] <micahg> xnox: isn't the shared library what uses it?
[17:18] <micahg> *reads it
[17:18] <alo21> micahg: there is 0.11.0-1 in debian
[17:19] <xnox> micahg: why cannot sqlite converter be statically linked after share lib is dropped?
[17:19] <micahg> alo21: we usually don't sync those types of updates at this point unless there are packaging changes we want
[17:20] <alo21> micahg: ok
[17:20] <micahg> xnox: hrm, statically linked sounds worse
[17:30] <alo21> jtaylor: I think this (http://changelog.debian.net/blam) is the righ package. Isn't it?
[17:32] <jtaylor> alo21: blam is not required either there is no real diff to ubuntu
[17:33] <jtaylor> alo21: check these packages: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB
[17:34] <alo21> jtaylor: what's the differnce?
[17:34] <jtaylor> ?
[17:34] <alo21> jtaylor: got it. thanks
[17:38] <alo21> jtaylor: this (http://changelog.debian.net/circos) is a debian renovation only, but it touches dipendency. What about this package?
[17:40] <jtaylor> alo21: that one looks syncworthy
[17:41] <alo21> jtaylor: cool. Where have I to sync?
[17:41] <jtaylor> requestsync <package>
[17:42] <c_korn> hello. how can I tell debuild to only build arch dependent packages?
[17:43] <jtaylor> c_korn: -A should do it
[17:43] <jtaylor> if not fakeroot debian/rules binary-indep
[17:44] <alo21> jtaylor: I suppose to send an email which has as subject: requestsync <package>. Right? If yes, which contact?
[17:44] <jtaylor> alo21: no use the commandline tool requestsync
[17:44] <jtaylor> it will do prettymuch everything for oyu
[17:46] <alo21> jtaylor: wow. So 1) build the package, 2) requestsync <package>. Right?
[17:47] <jtaylor> yes
[17:48] <alo21> jtaylor: are you running 12.10 on your machine (not pbuilder only)?
[17:55] <c_korn> jtaylor: I only want the dependent packages
[17:56] <c_korn> I think fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch is what I want. thanks
[18:03] <ESphynx> hey guys... so the whole Wheezy freeze thing going on in Debian is likely going to make Ecere miss Quantal, is it :|
[18:16] <jtaylor> ESphynx: is ecere in experimental/sid?
[18:17] <ESphynx> jtaylor: it's sitting in http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[18:17] <ESphynx> and new packages don't get processed while Wheezy freeze is going on :|
[18:18] <jtaylor> really?
[18:18] <jtaylor> that seems harsh
[18:18] <jtaylor> thats at least 6 month of no new packages?
[18:18] <ESphynx> " Typically there is not much NEW processing during a freeze."
[18:18] <Laney> ask for it
[18:18] <TheLordOfTime> i think its a sort-of freeze in sid...
[18:18] <ESphynx> is what I've been told in #debian-mentors ::P
[18:18] <TheLordOfTime> certain things get processed and others don't
[18:18] <jtaylor> I'm sure they are working just not as fast as usual
[18:18] <tumbleweed> there is NEW processing during the freeze
[18:19] <TheLordOfTime> ^
[18:19] <tumbleweed> it's just lower priority
[18:19] <jtaylor> else you have gigantic queue when it unfreezes and lots of people complaining
[18:19] <ESphynx> right.
[18:19] <ESphynx> well that's why I was just asking if there was any NEW processing happening or not :P or if I should just stop monitoring it ;)
[20:11]  * tumbleweed thinks he owes some meeting minutes
[20:13] <Laney> that fun job
[20:27] <ajmitch> did I miss a meeting? darn
[20:27] <xnox> what meeting?
[20:28] <tumbleweed> sent
[20:28] <ajmitch> that's what I'm asking about ;)
[20:28] <ajmitch> usually a motu meeting around this time
[20:28] <tumbleweed> no, it's tomorrow
[20:28] <tumbleweed> err 8 days time
[20:28] <ajmitch> oh right
[20:28]  * ajmitch was awake at 4AM, too
[20:31] <tumbleweed> hehe. I reported a LP timeout, and it was fixed by deleting the page (bug 905792)
[20:31] <Laney> that's one way to earn LoC credit
[20:31] <tumbleweed> :)
[20:35]  * xnox ponders if I should be earning LoC credit
[20:35] <xnox> sounds better than askubuntu rep or karma
[20:36] <tumbleweed> xnox: get to the top of ubuntu-activity
[20:36] <Laney> you could sell it
[20:37] <Laney> £1 per line?
[20:39] <xnox> tumbleweed: nah... don't care about that. I'd rather close oldest merges or smallest bug number
[20:40] <xnox> I did manage to get a few small onces 1YYXXX
[20:40] <xnox> I do want lp.net personal bug pages to have paging the same way as other pages.
[20:40] <xnox> due to timeouts
[20:41] <xnox> but I have lower hanging fruit before I get to that
[20:41] <xnox> if ubiquity counts as low hanging
[20:59] <DktrKranz> ESphynx: NEW queue is (almost) independent from the freeze. Only packages introducing new transitions are held, the other ones are considered best-efforts, as focus is targeted on the release.
[21:21] <ajmitch> Laney: do you know of a bug # for backports pre-release?
[21:24] <Laney> not sure
[21:24] <Laney> ask broder or ScottK
[21:24] <broder> i'm not sure i ever opened one
[21:26] <ajmitch> ok, I looked but couldn't find one, I should probably attach one to a branch
[21:26] <ajmitch> yeah I know it's well after feature freeze :)
[21:30] <ajmitch> broder: you may be able to confirm, the backports pocket is created when you want to open it, rather than when the release is opened?
[21:30] <broder> i think all the pockets are created at the same time
[21:30] <broder> but i'm not sure
[21:30] <Laney> yeah
[21:30] <ajmitch> ok
[21:31] <ajmitch> it's just hard to open backprots only at feature freeze then when there's no corresponding series status
[21:31] <Laney> doesn't it go to unapproved anyway?
[21:32] <ajmitch> that's policy that I want to clarify before proposing a merge :)
[21:32] <Laney> tests ...
[21:33] <ajmitch> you assume that there are sufficient existing tests around backports & upload policy
[21:34] <Laney> no, but I assume that there could be :-)
[21:34] <ajmitch> the only backport test in lib/lp/archiveuploader/tests/test_uploadpolicy.py is one I just added :)
[21:35]  * ajmitch is likely looking in the wrong place, of course
[21:35] <ajmitch> since launchpad is a bit of a maze
[21:36] <Laney> ask the lads
[21:36] <ajmitch> oh I nag some LP people often enough
[21:36] <ajmitch> I'll just end up writing a test to find out current behaviour
[21:37] <ajmitch> but if you say that backports should be unapproved by default, I'll run with that :)
[21:37] <Laney> it works like that, yes
[21:38] <Laney> you should check that it continues to work like that pre-release
[21:38] <Laney> at least by looking at the code that does this and convincing yourself
[21:38] <ajmitch> yeah, I will do of course :)
[21:38]  * ajmitch had changed the autoApprove, this is why I'm asking before proposing a branch
[21:40] <ScottK> I agree that backports should remain unapproved by default.
[21:41] <Laney> so the code doesn't need to know what feature freeze is, it's just a matter of policy
[21:41] <ajmitch> ok, changed code & tests, it doesn't autoapprove before or after release
[21:42] <Laney> grand
[21:42] <ajmitch> being able to run tests just with backport in the name is useful
[21:46] <ajmitch> so much paperwork for what's such a trivial change :)
[21:58] <xnox> ajmitch: 18 000 packages.... if all changed simultaneously nothing would ever work.
[21:58] <ajmitch> xnox: sorry?
[21:59] <xnox> ajmitch: you talk about paperwork & trivial changes =)
[21:59] <xnox> ajmitch: there is paperwork for a reason.
[21:59] <ajmitch> talking about changes to LP
[21:59]  * xnox lost context sorry
[21:59] <ajmitch> and I know it's there for a reason, doesn't mean I can't grumble & moan
[22:00] <xnox> =))))
[22:00] <ajmitch> isn't that what developers are meant to do?
[22:00] <xnox> i think developers are meant to meditate while watching upward scrolling text a lot and make *sigh* noise while doing so
[22:02] <ajmitch> or mock sword fights in the hallway while waiting
[22:21] <TML> Is there some central location that explains why a package that existed in version x.y was dropped in x.(y+6)? I used to have libpam-dotfile, it still exists in Debian, but it's missing from Ubuntu since natty. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam-dotfile/+bugs - 0 bugs; http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=libpam-dotfile - 0 bugs
[22:22] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam-dotfile/+publishinghistory
[22:22] <ajmitch> expand the row that says it's deleted
[22:23] <TML> ajmitch: Awesome - thanks
[22:24] <ajmitch> it's been deleted from debian as well, but is still in the stable release there
[22:25] <TML> And in sid, for whatever reason
[22:25] <TML> But seeing that it's just an orphaned package, I'm comfortable moving ahead compiling it from source for my machines. Just didn't want to continue using it if there was a strong reason not to.
[22:25] <ajmitch> it was removed from sid in 2011
[22:25] <TML> Thank you for the pointer
[23:57] <xnox> micahg: <CIA-11> GPE: philippe * r10115 /trunk/base/libtododb/ (old-db.c configure.ac ChangeLog Makefile.am todo-db.c): Change to sqlit
[23:57] <xnox> 3
[23:57] <xnox> missing at the end
[23:59] <xnox> micahg: http://cia.vc/stats/project/GPE