[00:14] <Unit193> knome: Sorry to be a bother (who'd guess?), but what was the standpoint of having a xubuntu without additional packages?
[04:55] <pleia2> knome: oh hey, you owe me a "powered by Xubuntu" sticker
[04:55] <pleia2> (design)
[10:05] <knome> Unit193, can you elaborate; what do you mean?
[10:05] <Unit193> knome: Package that just had default settings, artwork, etc rather than abiword and the rest of the default programs.
[10:06] <knome> so why didn't we drop the default stuff you mean?
[10:06] <Unit193> No, a different metapackage.
[10:07] <knome> shimmer-themes?
[10:08] <Sysi> at some point somebody suggested that there would be minimal-xubuntu metapackage created
[10:08] <knome> right
[10:08] <knome> yeah, we can still do that
[10:08] <knome> but was that the question? :)
[10:09] <Unit193> Wasn't that becauase of alternate, and it'd lessen the pull on lower connections?  Yes.
[10:09] <knome> ah yeah, now i remember the whole discussion
[10:09] <Unit193> ...I don't yet. :P
[10:09] <knome> the idea was to provice a minimal package for those, who use the minimal installer, and don't want to install xubuntu-dekstop
[10:10] <knome> that does effectively mean you have less to pull
[10:10] <knome> but there was no discussion about including it anywhere by default; because we still think that a few applications do add to the "xubuntu experience" so much that we don't want to drop them from the default ISO/installation
[10:11] <Sysi> we could just add guide for installing xfce4+xubuntu-default-settings
[10:11] <knome> yes, i think that would produce pretty much the same results, though we should definitely check that it does
[10:12] <Sysi> some panel plugins might be missing
[10:15] <ochosi> it's not entirely useless to have a few apps by default in the live install
[10:15] <ochosi> i know people who use livesticks to work sometimes
[10:15] <knome> ochosi, can you suggest something for the abiword slide?
[10:15] <ochosi> knome: a new equivalent screenshot?
[10:16] <knome> ochosi, that, and the text needs to be changed
[10:16] <ochosi> yup
[10:20] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/slideshow_office.png ?
[10:22] <ochosi> yeah, sounds good to me
[10:22] <knome> do you want the shot to be updated?
[10:22] <knome> i'm going to file an UIFe today
[10:22] <ochosi> well it would be nice
[10:22] <ochosi> since it's the only inconsistent one atm
[10:24] <ochosi> knome: i'll do the screener for you if you want
[10:24] <knome> yeah, that would be nice
[10:24] <knome> 450x330
[10:26] <ochosi> knome: http://imagebin.org/228117
[10:28] <knome> mmh, good, thanks
[10:29] <knome> hmm wait
[10:29] <knome> old shade button?
[10:29] <ochosi> meh
[10:30] <knome> haha
[10:30] <ochosi> no, it's the menu button
[10:30] <knome> i can fix that
[10:30] <ochosi> in our default layout there is no shade button in that place
[10:30] <knome> aha
[10:30] <knome> d'oh
[10:30] <ochosi> ;)
[10:30] <ochosi> so it's in fact _your_ bad, not mine (this time)
[10:30] <knome> i'll leave it
[10:30] <knome> :P
[10:30] <ochosi> anyway, i don't think anyone will notice or complain
[10:31] <knome> meh
[10:31] <knome> i'll fix it
[11:10] <ochosi> knome: btw, i have the workaround for the xfwm4 theme ready in my vbox
[11:10] <knome> aha :)
[11:10] <knome> that's 2px?
[11:10] <ochosi> so in case we decide to go forward with it, i can push it pretty much anytime
[11:11] <ochosi> like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09122012-011059pm.php
[11:11] <knome> ack
[11:11] <ochosi> i think it looks bearable
[11:11] <ochosi> not as nice as should be
[11:11] <knome> definitely
[11:11] <ochosi> but what can you do
[11:11] <knome> terminal is the only killjoy
[11:12] <knome> well, you can fi Xorg... ;)
[11:12] <knome> fix too
[11:12] <ochosi> yeah, terminal doesn't look extremely nice with it
[11:12] <ochosi> i could add the 1px inner border at the bottom too
[11:12] <knome> dunno
[11:12] <ochosi> but for most other windows apart from term i think it's better this way
[11:12] <knome> yeah
[11:12] <knome> your call, i'm fine with either
[11:13] <ochosi> well, with 16:9 resolutions being so popular, let's not waste vertical pixels ;)
[11:13] <knome> k
[11:55] <mr_pouit> knome: hey, any news about indicator-sound (it hasn't been reviewed yet)
[11:55] <mr_pouit> +?
[12:11] <knome> mr_pouit, bug # ?
[12:18] <mr_pouit> knome: Bug #1048217 (ido-gtk2 has been accepted, indicator-sound-gtk2 is still stuck in NEW)
[12:21] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
[12:22] <mr_pouit> hey
[12:23] <ochosi> we still have to fix ubiquity and lightdm wrt wallpaper
[12:23] <ochosi> and i was wondering whether we should just have a symlink pointing to the current wallpaper always
[12:23] <ochosi> so that we don't have to submit patches to ubiquity for each release
[12:24] <mr_pouit> yeah, or we can replace the wp each time
[12:24] <mr_pouit> but a symlink works for ùe
[12:24] <mr_pouit> *me
[12:24] <ochosi> (although, to be fair, with this one it's a bit problematic because we will have to use 2 different wallpapers for xfdesktop and lightdm/plymouth)
[12:25] <ochosi> so: the "normal" wp with the 4 dots in the right bottom corner is for xfdesktop and ubiquity
[12:25] <knome> mr_pouit, fw'd
[12:25] <ochosi> a dotless wp will have to be used for plymouth and lightdm, because they don't scale the wp correctly yet
[12:26] <knome> mr_pouit, will be processed today
[12:26] <mr_pouit> okay, great, thanks
[12:26] <knome> np
[12:27] <knome> mr_pouit, see http://typewith.me/p/x-q-beta2-prep
[12:27] <ochosi> knome: can you pls put the dotless wp somewhere with a bugreport?
[12:27] <ochosi> so that mr_pouit can pull it
[12:27] <knome> meh
[12:28] <knome> i'll attach it to the old bugreport
[12:28] <knome> i'll export it now
[12:28] <ochosi> in return, i'll do the merge-request for ubiquity
[12:28] <mr_pouit> "Loading..."
[12:28] <mr_pouit> am i supposed to see something :P
[12:28] <ochosi> mr_pouit: so how shall we handle the wp issue with the symlinks and all?
[12:28] <knome> mr_pouit, lol, it's just etherpad failing again
[12:29] <mr_pouit> I'll add a symlink, xubuntu-wallpaper.png, or whatever name you prefer (omg-ponies.png, knome-is-not-gnome.png)
[12:29] <knome> haha
[12:29] <ochosi> omg-ponies plz
[12:30] <knome> i prefer the latter
[12:30] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, then i'll point ubiquity to xubuntu-wallpaper as soon as that's fixed/uploaded
[12:30] <Unit193> Don't get that confused with the xfcenotifyd theme.
[12:30] <ochosi> ok, then omg-bronies instead
[12:31] <knome> that's another +0.5MB :P
[12:31] <ochosi> drop old wps :)
[12:31] <ochosi> then you'll actually save space
[12:31] <knome> worksfor me
[12:31] <knome> +" " or -" "
[12:32] <knome> do we have a package that reintroduces them on install?
[12:32] <knome> shimmer-wallpapers exists?
[12:33] <ochosi> alternatively xubuntu-wallpapers-old
[12:33] <knome> whatever
[12:34] <mr_pouit> I'm not introducing yet another package at this point, enough of that :3
[12:35] <knome> yeah, not this cycle
[12:35] <knome> i was just wondering if such exists
[12:35] <knome> but i'm still ok with dropping the old wallpapers, because we need the space really much
[12:35] <knome> mr_pouit, bug 1043170 has new attachment
[12:36] <knome> we will probably need an UIFe for the Plymouth change, since that still has the old wall?
[12:36] <ochosi> so yeah, we need this ^ for lightdm as well now
[12:36] <ochosi> oh, i mean
[12:36] <mr_pouit> then I'll replace the old filename with a symlink to the new wp
[12:36] <knome> lightdm is bugfix obviously
[12:36] <mr_pouit> No need to fix ubiquity then
[12:36] <knome> but plymouth not, since that actually has the P wall...
[12:37] <ochosi> yeah, i'm taking care of ubiquity
[12:37] <ochosi> that
[12:37] <ochosi> 's fine
[12:37] <ochosi> just plymouth and lightdm for you, mr_pouit 
[12:37] <mr_pouit> ochosi: no need to fix ubiquity if I add the symlink
[12:38] <knome> i've asked for an ACK for UIFe for that
[12:38] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, but if you create a symlink now that points to xubuntu-greybird or whatever the old name was, then we'll have to fix it again next cycle
[12:39] <mr_pouit> next cycle we'll change where the symlink points to
[12:39] <ochosi> "xubuntu-precise-right.png" is not a very cool general name in ubiquity
[12:39] <mr_pouit> and ubiquity will still be happy
[12:39] <knome> hehe
[12:39] <knome> agreed with ochosi...
[12:39] <knome> but doesn't ubiquity have the new wallpaper already?
[12:39] <knome> or not?
[12:40] <knome> and does plymouth have it then?
[12:40] <knome> am i mistaken
[12:40] <mr_pouit> I don't care whether it sounds cool or not (:
[12:40] <mr_pouit> knome: only-ubiquity doesn't
[12:40] <knome> aha, but plymouth does?
[12:41] <mr_pouit> (live session and plymouth and lightdm are ok -- except they use the wp with dots)
[12:42] <knome> ok
[12:43] <knome> i'm still waiting for a release team member to ack the UIFe
[12:43] <knome> and yeah, i'd like the wallpaper names to be more generic too
[12:46] <mr_pouit> knome: that'd be great if you could ask the release team to clarify the remote login feature of lightdm (acked by FFe). It seems to be on by default, it seems to require some code in the greeter, so I'd say it has been introduced without any thought for greeters other than unity-greeter :)
[12:47] <knome> ack'ed the UIFe, so feel free to go ahead with the wallpapers
[12:47] <knome> mr_pouit, what's your worry?
[12:47] <mr_pouit> I may be mistaken, but all this stuff is starting to annoy me
[12:47] <knome> maybe you could ask yourself? (:
[12:48] <mr_pouit> yeah, right :P
[12:48] <knome> :P
[12:48] <knome> what's your worry then?
[12:50] <mr_pouit> mmh, no, it'll be fine I guess
[12:51] <mr_pouit> lightdm will have remote login enabled, but users won't be able to use it with lightdm-gtk-greeter
[12:51] <mr_pouit> that's all
[12:51] <mr_pouit> so nothing to annoy the release team with
[12:52] <knome> heh, ok
[12:53] <knome> i don't even want to count the amount of UIFe's this time
[12:53] <knome> ochosi, now that mr_pouit is around, should we tell him to push the fix to grey/blackbird? (:
[12:53] <knome> ochosi, or do you want to wait if xorg is magically fixed?
[12:58] <knome> mr_pouit, can we ulink the non-xubuntu-specific bugs from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-xfce-410
[12:58] <knome> hey bluesabre 
[12:59] <bluesabre> hey knome
[12:59] <bluesabre> that was fast
[12:59] <knome> hehe
[12:59] <knome> sometimes i am, sometimes i'm not...
[12:59] <bluesabre> What's up?
[12:59] <knome> filing UIFe's :D
[13:00] <knome> and looking at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ and seeing xubuntu has the best percentage, and definitely not the least work items either
[13:01] <ochosi> knome: so you wanna go ahead with the workaround for xfwm4 themes anyway?
[13:01] <smartboyhw> OMG Xubuntu has 85% while others are below 55% Good job really I took off my hat to knome and others:)
[13:02] <knome> ochosi, well no, but looking at next week, i don't think there's big possibilities i'm going to have time to investigate it
[13:02] <knome> ochosi, and it's really late in the cycle anyway, we can just revert for R if the xorg bug is fixed
[13:03] <ochosi> ok, so i guess i'll have to attach patches to the bugreports
[13:03] <ochosi> shall we fix the default xfwm4 theme from upstream as well?
[13:03] <bluesabre> wowza
[13:03] <knome> yeah, but i don't think you need an UIFe
[13:03] <bluesabre> 50.42 workitems must be completed per day
[13:03] <knome> it's a bugfix...
[13:03] <bluesabre> That's crazy
[13:03] <knome> ochosi, upstream being?
[13:03] <ochosi> the xfce xfwm4 default theme
[13:03] <knome> right
[13:03] <knome> hmph
[13:03] <mr_pouit> knome: done, and set as completed
[13:03] <knome> if you wish to
[13:04] <knome> mr_pouit, thanks :)
[13:04] <ochosi> mr_pouit: so, about those xfwm4 problems...
[13:04] <knome> bluesabre, not for xubuntu ;)
[13:04] <bluesabre> Yeah, I know
[13:04] <ochosi> mr_pouit: shall i just link to the respective commits in git or what would you prefer?
[13:04] <bluesabre> Still, its a pretty impressive number
[13:04] <knome> ok, so only 4 blueprints not finished
[13:04] <ochosi> yeah, and how many postponed? ;)
[13:04] <knome> hah
[13:04] <knome> a few only
[13:05] <ochosi> well, "a few" :)
[13:05] <knome> 22 work items
[13:05] <knome> not too bad
[13:05] <knome> that's 87 done if we finish the rest
[13:06] <knome> we only *filed* 75 last cycle
[13:06] <knome> and postponed 12, so 63
[13:06] <knome> 24 work items done more
[13:06] <knome> though you can't really compare, 1 != 1
[13:06] <knome> but we have those monster items this cycle, like "rewrite offline docs"
[13:07] <knome> and i think we were able to improve this time too
[13:08] <ochosi> mhm
[19:01] <ochosi> the big silence because everyone is secretly watching apple's event...
[19:02] <elfy> apple ducking? 
[19:10] <Sysi> I won't have money to get iphone for at least a year
[19:13] <bluesabre> nah, I'm watching One Piece
[19:13] <bluesabre> ... secretly
[19:14] <pleia2> the apple event is a block away from me, shall I go downstairs and report live?
[19:14] <Sysi> I think it ended already
[19:14] <pleia2> oh ok
[19:14] <elfy> only if there's reall aple dunking involved pleia2 
[19:14] <pleia2> it messes up local traffic in my neighborhood, very annoying
[19:14] <Sysi> (I followed trough IRC)
[19:15] <pleia2> I am actually working today so I haven't paid attention
[19:17] <ochosi> i think they have new everything, they re-invented everything and no-one "in the industry" has ever made anything alike before
[19:17] <ochosi> (except samsung, but apple only agree to that in court)
[19:17] <pleia2> turns out I'm happy with the cheap knockoffs 5 years later
[19:18] <Sysi> zombie pride (N9)
[19:18] <pleia2> (plus I like open source, so...)
[19:19] <ochosi> pleia2: really, you like opensource? isn't that kinda weird..? =)
[19:19] <pleia2> buncha hippies
[19:20] <ochosi> hehe, exactly
[19:20] <Sysi> android UI isn't bad even if none of them is really good either.. but I don't want to hear "try flashing this custom rom" ever
[19:21] <Sysi> unless it's under five click operation
[19:22] <Sysi> I've used desktop linux long enough to know how trying to tweak things usually ends :P
[19:23] <ochosi> in a perfect user-experience? (:
[19:33] <Sysi> yeaah, that