[18:00] <yofel> o/
[18:00] <JontheEchidna> o/
[18:00] <d__ed> o/
[18:00] <Riddell> good evening friends
[18:01] <Riddell> let's have a kubuntu meeting
[18:01] <JontheEchidna> sure, why not? :)
[18:01] <Riddell> alas ScottK can't be with us but he's briefed me on his thinking
[18:01] <shadeslayer> \o
[18:03] <apachelogger> ahoy
[18:03] <Riddell> yay
[18:03] <Riddell> we have a quorum
[18:03] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[18:03] <Riddell> where shall we start?
[18:03] <JontheEchidna> what is "Emerge support partner update" on the agenda?
[18:04] <Riddell> that's from last time
[18:04] <Riddell> nice company who want to offer support for kubuntu
[18:04] <Riddell> with profits going back to kubuntu
[18:04] <JontheEchidna> ah, I must have not been able to attend that meeting
[18:04] <Riddell> he was on holiday but said he's got an agreement with canonical now and needs to go over it with his legal person
[18:05] <Riddell> and it's a priority for him
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> that's great
[18:05] <shadeslayer> oh, sounds really cool
[18:05] <shadeslayer> do we have notes on how that works?
[18:05] <Riddell> how what works?
[18:05] <shadeslayer> providing support etc
[18:06] <Quintasan> \o
[18:06] <Riddell> he's got a company lined up to do it, when they're ready to launch we make a big splash and hope there's someone who wants to buy it
[18:07] <Quintasan> hmm
[18:07] <shadeslayer> oh ... so they offer services and profits come back to us
[18:07] <Quintasan> sounds nice
[18:07] <shadeslayer> sounds cool
[18:08] <Riddell> shall we do some 12.10 features review?
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> sounds good to me
[18:08] <Riddell> has every tried beta 1?
[18:08] <Riddell> has everyone tried beta 1?
[18:08] <d__ed> I have
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> I've been running quantal since the archive opened :)
[18:08] <IdleOne> running it now
[18:08] <shadeslayer> aye
[18:08] <Quintasan> I think I updated my quantal vm yesterday and it was quite smooth
[18:08] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/QuantalQuetzal/Beta1/Kubuntu lists most of the new stuff
[18:09] <yofel> me too, but I'm not sure if I noticed everything we changed
[18:09]  * shadeslayer needs to go back to precise however
[18:09] <Riddell> hmm where to start?
[18:09] <Riddell> with the easy stuff maybe
[18:10] <Riddell> adding skanlite and kamoso seems fairly uncontrovertial
[18:10] <Riddell> any comments?
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> good additions, +1
[18:10] <shadeslayer> yep
[18:10] <apachelogger> how much space does kamoso eat up?
[18:10] <Riddell> 197 kB
[18:11] <Quintasan> Did skanlite get any updates? I recall it was pretty plain when I used it last time
[18:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: no additional deps?
[18:11] <apachelogger> (compared to what we have)
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: the only other non-qt deps seem to be qtgstreamer, which we were already pulling in for the QApt GStreamer installer thingy
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> *non-qt/kde
[18:12] <d__ed> and for KTp's call UI.
[18:12] <Riddell> telepathy also pulls in the gstreamer bits
[18:12] <apachelogger> kipi-plugins is new
[18:12] <Quintasan> Was about to comment on how funny it looks: non-qt deps and we pull qtgstreamer :D
[18:12] <shadeslayer> d__ed: we don't ship call ui on the cd
[18:12] <apachelogger> huh
[18:12] <apachelogger> kipi-plugins is actually quite excessive
[18:13] <yofel> we have kipi-plugins on the image?
[18:13] <apachelogger> it is a recommends, so I'd assume so
[18:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Would you rather have Gwenview or other apps that use kipi-plugins prompt user to install additional software?
[18:13] <apachelogger> also kamoso without kipi-plugins quite frankly makes even less sense
[18:13] <Riddell> no kipi-plugins on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20120913/quantal-desktop-amd64.manifest
[18:14] <yofel> apachelogger: it's actually a suggests in quantal
[18:14] <Riddell> we're not short of space on the images now
[18:14] <apachelogger> ok, so I raise the thought that without kipi-plugins kamoso is only half as use"full"
[18:15] <yofel> we are using quite a bit already though, does someone know how much kipi-plugins would use?
[18:15] <Riddell> adding kipi-plugins seems the obvious answer then
[18:15] <Quintasan> +1 on adding kipi-plugins if we have the space
[18:15] <apachelogger> the plugins themselfs are some 3 mib
[18:15] <apachelogger> + it has deps
[18:15] <Riddell> hi Mamarok, currently discussing kamoso and kipi-plugins
[18:15] <apachelogger> so that warrants technical investigation IMHO
[18:15] <apachelogger> at any rate +1 on both as long as kipi does not drag in unresonable amounts of deps
[18:16] <yofel> agreed
[18:16] <Riddell> adding kipi-plugins to my newly installed machine says 74MB to download
[18:16] <Riddell> erk
[18:16] <apachelogger> otherwise kipi may get split
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: kipi split then
[18:16] <apachelogger> kamoso only uses like 3 plugins
[18:16]  * apachelogger puts on todo
[18:16] <apachelogger> let's move on
[18:16] <Riddell> ACTION: investigate splitting kipi - apachelogger
[18:17] <shadeslayer> erm
[18:17]  * Quintasan scratches his head
[18:17] <tsimpson> you didn't #startmeeting
[18:17] <shadeslayer> aye ^
[18:17] <yofel> talking about disk space - does anyone mind shipping all resolutions of the default wallpaper by default instead of just 1920x1200?
[18:17] <shadeslayer> #startmeeting
[18:17] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 13 18:17:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is shadeslayer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:17] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:17] <shadeslayer> #chair Riddell
[18:17] <meetingology> Current chairs: Riddell shadeslayer
[18:17] <shadeslayer> #unchair shadeslayer
[18:17] <meetingology> Current chairs: Riddell shadeslayer
[18:17] <Quintasan> yofel: I was wondering why we are not using SVG
[18:17] <Riddell> tsimpson: shrug, I find doing it manually is no harder :)
[18:17] <shadeslayer> wat
[18:18] <shadeslayer> tsimpson: the bot be broken :P
[18:18] <Riddell> yofel: what's the advantage?
[18:18] <apachelogger> Quintasan: Qt only has tinysvg renderering
[18:18] <tsimpson> Riddell: just make is easier to copy-paste the minutes in my experience
[18:18]  * xnox #meetingname ?! or use #startmeeting Secret Society Meeting
[18:18] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Can't say that it tells me anything apart from implied "it won't work"
[18:18] <tsimpson> shadeslayer: bug AlanBell :)
[18:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: you do not get bogus wallpaper scaling on non-widescreen resolutions
[18:18] <shadeslayer> :P
[18:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: also faster netbook start
[18:19] <shadeslayer> ACTION: investigate splitting kipi - apachelogger
[18:19] <apachelogger> also faster mobile start
[18:19] <Riddell> #action investigate splitting kipi - apachelogger
[18:19] <meetingology> ACTION: investigate splitting kipi - apachelogger
[18:19] <apachelogger> also faster everythign start given appropriate screen size
[18:19] <shadeslayer> ah ok
[18:19] <Riddell> #action investigate adding all wallpaper sizes to CD - yofel
[18:19] <meetingology> ACTION: investigate adding all wallpaper sizes to CD - yofel
[18:19] <yofel> Riddell: might look more consistent and might help with some weird bug where the settings show a ghost '1900x1200' entry in the wallpaper settings by default. I'll try to test this and will get back to you
[18:19] <Riddell> Kde-Config-Tablet anyone used it?
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> not I
[18:20] <shadeslayer> no hardware to test
[18:20] <Quintasan> apachelogger: In other words, using SVG as wallpaper is not possible?
[18:20] <d__ed> no, I do have hardware though.
[18:20] <apachelogger> Quintasan: not as viable anyway
[18:20] <Quintasan> tablet as in wacom tablets or tablet as in transformer?
[18:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: wacom
[18:20]  * Quintasan will looks for his wacom tablet
[18:20] <apachelogger> d__ed should test ;)
[18:21] <Riddell> the name could do with some clarification
[18:21]  * AlanBell wonders if anyone has even tried to use #unchair before
[18:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: postpone decision until either of the two has used it?
[18:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'd assign the action but I'd feel bad until d__ed has said if he actually want to do it
[18:22] <apachelogger> given that there is (as usual) no viable data anywhere whetehr it works and does what it is supposed to, it makes little sense to make a decision here IMHO
[18:22] <d__ed> ok, I'll do it (or try at least)
[18:23] <Riddell> don't let us pressure you into it!
[18:23] <d__ed> it's fine :)
[18:23] <Riddell> #action test kde-config-tablet in quantal - d__ed, Quintasan
[18:23] <meetingology> ACTION: test kde-config-tablet in quantal - d__ed, Quintasan
[18:23] <Riddell> Print Manager, how's it working?
[18:23] <Riddell> I've tried it with a new laser printer I've picked up and it works well
[18:23] <Quintasan> ha, I have managed to add my printer and print something
[18:23] <JontheEchidna> I've not had any problems on my end either
[18:24] <Quintasan> pretty smooth considering it was a pain to set it up ealier
[18:24] <Riddell> the UI of the config tool is acceptable but not as nice as the one I made for s-c-p-k back in the day in my opinion
[18:24] <Riddell> but the applet is much more pretty
[18:24] <Riddell> and doesn't have the obvious bugs in it
[18:24] <Riddell> anyone looked at the upstream discussion recently?
[18:24] <Riddell> dantti proposed it on kde-core-devel
[18:25] <shadeslayer> "Review Request: print-manager on kdereview"
[18:25] <shadeslayer> that one?
[18:25] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yes
[18:25] <apachelogger> aye
[18:25] <AlanBell> Riddell: tsimpson: shadeslayer: #unchair works, but you can't unchair yourself. That probably seemed like a sensible safety precaution at the time.
[18:25] <apachelogger> IIRC there was some l10n issue
[18:25] <apachelogger> worth looking into
[18:25] <Riddell> it had the obvious problem of needing system-config-printer-gnome but I removed the errors because they're not actually needed
[18:25] <shadeslayer> AlanBell: ah :D
[18:26] <Riddell> and ScottK pointed me to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/902762 where till discusses that it can probably be fixed anyway
[18:26] <shadeslayer> Hm, should buy a printer
[18:26] <apachelogger> +1 on print-manager
[18:26] <apachelogger> it's the future I tell ya
[18:26] <shadeslayer> I do remember setting up a printer for a teacher at my college a year ago, did not work out so well
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> +1 print manager
[18:27] <Riddell> #action review kde-core-devel for print-manager discussion - riddell
[18:27] <meetingology> ACTION: review kde-core-devel for print-manager discussion - riddell
[18:27] <shadeslayer> ( printed about a 100 blank test pages )
[18:27] <Riddell> Colord KDE
[18:27] <Riddell> anyone used it
[18:27] <Riddell> or have a use for it?
[18:27] <Quintasan> lol shadeslayer probably didn't insert the cartidge :P
[18:27]  * apachelogger does not know what it is for
[18:27] <Riddell> it's in because of rumours that ubuntu desktop has a colour calibration tool
[18:28] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I hear good things about it
[18:28] <Riddell> shadeslayer: from whom?
[18:28] <shadeslayer> haven't used one myself
[18:28] <shadeslayer> Riddell: people on G+
[18:28] <apachelogger> also are there not two implementations of color calibration right now?
[18:28] <shadeslayer> don't ask me for specific posts because I don't remember
[18:29] <yofel> we do have kgamma - but I don't know what exactly colord does
[18:29] <shadeslayer> I believe you can use a Hugghe(?) device to use colord-kde
[18:29]  * Quintasan shrugs
[18:29] <shadeslayer> not sure how to pronounce it
[18:29] <Quintasan> Never used such stuff.
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> graphics designers use it to color-correct their displays so that things look like they would in real life
[18:29] <yofel> well, that would be progress
[18:29] <yofel> JontheEchidna: can't you configure that with kgamma?
[18:30] <apachelogger> no
[18:30] <yofel> or is colord somewhat automated?
[18:30] <apachelogger> kgamma corrects gamma :P
[18:30] <shadeslayer> colord takes info from a actual device I do believe
[18:30] <apachelogger> also the colord stuff is supposed to make you do it right
[18:30] <Riddell> kgamma is only monitors
[18:30] <shadeslayer> that you put on your monitor
[18:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: something like that
[18:30] <Riddell> colord-kde is for webcams and printers too
[18:30] <apachelogger> anywho
[18:30] <yofel> ah ok, colord++ then
[18:30] <apachelogger> if someone tested it throw it on
[18:31] <Riddell> #action find knowledgeable testers for colord-kde - riddell
[18:31] <meetingology> ACTION: find knowledgeable testers for colord-kde - riddell
[18:31] <shadeslayer> aha
[18:31] <shadeslayer> found it
[18:31] <shadeslayer> This guy https://plus.google.com/107928060492923463788
[18:32] <shadeslayer> it's called a ColorHug
[18:32] <shadeslayer> and I think we can find this device at UDS for testing
[18:32] <apachelogger> hug the next item, this meeting is taking forever :P
[18:32] <Riddell> he wrote colord didn't he?
[18:32] <Riddell> GTK Configuration
[18:32] <shadeslayer> aye, he also made the actual device I think
[18:33] <Riddell> new tool configures both gtk 2 and gtk 3
[18:33] <Riddell> whereas the old one configured 2 and used the same settings for 3
[18:33] <Riddell> which was unlikely to work
[18:33] <shadeslayer> " The ColorHug is an open source display colorimeter. It allows you to calibrate your screen for accurate color matching. "
[18:33] <Riddell> vis xsettings-kde
[18:33] <Riddell> via xsettings-kde
[18:34] <shadeslayer> the question is, how many people are likely to own one of these devices to use with colord-kde
[18:34] <Quintasan> Riddell: If the new one works then I see no point in wondering.
[18:34] <shadeslayer> because it seems a bit useless without the device
[18:34] <Riddell> Quintasan: tried it?
[18:35] <apachelogger> maybe I am being silly
[18:35] <apachelogger> but why do we need gtk configuration again?
[18:35] <Quintasan> Riddell: Can't say I run many GTK applications. Firefox looks good.
[18:35] <yofel> apachelogger: $people want it, for whatever reason
[18:35] <apachelogger> ...
[18:36] <apachelogger> last I checked you could use GTK's GTK configuration tool to configure GTK
[18:36] <shadeslayer> heh
[18:36] <apachelogger> just saying
[18:36] <yofel> are we still shipping xsettings? as this was probably our only reason to have it on the disk
[18:36] <apachelogger> there is things that make sense and then there is GTK configuration done in Qt using KDE libraries...
[18:36] <Riddell> yofel: this new tool replaces xsettings-kde
[18:36] <yofel> good
[18:37] <yofel> apachelogger: gtk has a configuration tool? I know gnome has one, but that pulls in half of gnome
[18:37] <apachelogger> yeah
[18:37] <apachelogger> so?
[18:37] <apachelogger> :P
[18:37] <yofel> ...
[18:37] <apachelogger> try to configuring phonon
[18:37] <apachelogger> ...
[18:38] <Quintasan> apachelogger's logic: why use something else when we can pull half of gnome
[18:38] <Quintasan> :P
[18:39] <shadeslayer> it only seems logical
[18:39] <yofel> anyway, I'm pretty much fine with the new KCM. I don't like how it sets gtk3, but that's gtk3's fault so we won't get anything better I believe
[18:40] <Riddell> it sets it in such a way it doesn't affect gnome/unity sessions
[18:40] <Riddell> so it shouldn't get in the way of people who like to switch
[18:40] <apachelogger> +1 then
[18:41] <apachelogger> also action to investigate just exactly who our target audience is
[18:41] <yofel> I know it doesn't mess with gnome, my concern were the other DE's
[18:41] <yofel> apachelogger++
[18:41] <Riddell> akonadi-facebook?
[18:42] <Riddell> anyone tried it?
[18:42] <d__ed> mck182 says yes.
[18:42] <d__ed> (he's here with me, I'm not psychic)
[18:42] <Riddell> it works for me, but I don't keep a lot of stuff in my facebook calendar
[18:42] <d__ed> (edit: not the packages)
[18:43] <Riddell> but maybe the cool kids get appointments through facebook
[18:43] <Riddell> ScottK had a concern about privacy
[18:43]  * shadeslayer is adding his account atm
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> it's opt-in, isn't it?
[18:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: how so?
[18:43] <Riddell> yes it needs to be set up so I don't think it's different from people using it on a web browser
[18:43] <Quintasan> Can't say it's really needed but is a cool feature.
[18:44] <apachelogger> I really do not see a privacy issue
[18:44] <shadeslayer> ^
[18:44] <Riddell> same for akonadi-google
[18:44] <apachelogger> no different from importing your google data anyway
[18:44] <apachelogger> or kolab for that matter :P
[18:45] <d__ed> (mck182 says that in the very near future the kfacebook and the akonadi plugin are going to split into a separate repo)
[18:45] <yofel> libkgoogle works fine for me
[18:45] <d__ed> will this cause a packaging issue?
[18:45] <apachelogger> nope
[18:45] <shadeslayer> hm
[18:45] <Riddell> d__ed: not if packagers get told about it
[18:45] <shadeslayer> doesn't seem to fetch my calendar events
[18:45] <shadeslayer> contacts look fine
[18:46] <apachelogger> does it actually allow adding events?
[18:46] <shadeslayer> not adding, but I think it allows retrieving right?
[18:46] <yofel> kontact does annoy me about my google calendar reminders
[18:46] <apachelogger> oh well
[18:46] <apachelogger> it's a nice tech demo then
[18:47] <apachelogger> (not beign able to add things always seems a bit of a deal breaker to me with online thingy integration)
[18:47] <apachelogger> anyhow +1 for shipping
[18:47] <d__ed> apparently, I'm going to do the akonadi-facebook library splitting right now...
[18:48] <Riddell> d__ed: we can avoid that until next release I think
[18:48] <Riddell> KDE Telepthy
[18:48] <Riddell> who's tried it?
[18:48] <d__ed> me!
[18:48] <Quintasan> \o/
[18:48] <shadeslayer> moi
[18:48] <Quintasan> INCLUDE ALL THE THINGS
[18:48] <Mamarok> me too
[18:49] <Riddell> I think the question with kde-telepathy is about whether we should have the panel presence applet on by default
[18:49] <yofel> telepathy works nice here (jabber, ICQ, facebook)
[18:49] <Quintasan> ^ same here
[18:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: I do not really think it is an option
[18:49] <Riddell> ScottK said if it was on by default he'd want the message indicator removed and replaced with the normal systray icon for quassel
[18:49] <apachelogger> you'd otherwise be online without having visual indication of that
[18:49] <Quintasan> +1 apachelogger
[18:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: that'd make sense
[18:50] <d__ed> I did discuss on the launchpad bug, if it's wanted we can make it autohide if you have no accounts
[18:50]  * Quintasan always removed Message Indicator
[18:50] <shadeslayer> I'm not sure if it's worth keepimg mi
[18:50] <d__ed> (for a 0.5.1)
[18:50] <Quintasan> d__ed: That would be nice
[18:50] <d__ed> (still talking about presence applet not MI)
[18:50] <apachelogger> d__ed: that'd be handy
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> yeah, +1 on switching to telepathy and ditching MI
[18:50] <shadeslayer> *keeping
[18:50] <Riddell> the presence applet doesn't fit in with the other white icons on the panel!
[18:50] <d__ed> so it would be in the little "up arrow" bit of the system tray if you have none.
[18:50] <apachelogger> yeah
[18:50] <shadeslayer> I agree with Riddell on that one
[18:51] <apachelogger> better than always having it visible IMHO
[18:51]  * yofel is pretty happy it's not black/white...
[18:51] <yofel> and isn't it grey when you're offline?
[18:51] <shadeslayer> yes it is
[18:51] <apachelogger> grey, not oxygen-opaque-grey
[18:51] <shadeslayer> but it's not monochromey
[18:51] <Riddell> who wants the action item to add it?
[18:52] <d__ed> on the icons:
[18:52] <apachelogger> Riddell, d__ed: did someone talk with master nuno about the monochromeness?
[18:52] <shadeslayer> Riddell: moi
[18:52] <Quintasan> TBH I didn't like the monochrome approach to the icons
[18:52] <shadeslayer> I think the bug is already assigned to me
[18:52] <d__ed> (quoting martin) "there was a guy who made some monochrome icons, and we made it load the plasma icons, but they looked really bad"
[18:52] <Riddell> #action add ktp presence applet, remove message indicator by default - shadeslayer
[18:52] <meetingology> ACTION: add ktp presence applet, remove message indicator by default - shadeslayer
[18:52] <d__ed> (actually he didn't say really bad)
[18:53] <d__ed> can we action someone opening a bug on KTp about making it hide
[18:53] <apachelogger> shadeslayer
[18:53] <d__ed> actually, nm. I'll do it
[18:53] <Riddell> #action open a bug on ktp presence applet to hide if no account - d__ed
[18:53] <meetingology> ACTION: open a bug on ktp presence applet to hide if no account - d__ed
[18:53] <shadeslayer> apachelogger:
[18:53] <Riddell> LightDM-KDE
[18:54] <Riddell> new bling or untested scaryness?
[18:54] <Riddell> 14:51 <ScottK> For lightdm, I've also not tested it, but it's not obvious to me it's enough better than kdm yet to merit diverging from upstream.
[18:54] <Riddell> I think it's worth it for the guest session
[18:54] <JontheEchidna> I've not had any problems with it, and it looks great
[18:55] <d__ed> the thread on the Kubuntu forums was very positive
[18:55] <Riddell> d__ed: oh? I'll have to look that up
[18:55] <d__ed> (after 0.3.0 anyway)
[18:55] <yofel> background needs fixing to match kspalsh 4.9 (I forgot to file a bug about that) - otherwise nice
[18:55] <shadeslayer> Guest sessions are awesome
[18:55] <apachelogger> yofel: was about to do that when Riddell dragged me in here -.-
[18:55] <shadeslayer> and I've already filed a bug about wallpapers and light dm
[18:55] <yofel> ah good :)
[18:56] <Riddell> yofel: so more solid grey?
[18:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: same as we have in plymouth
[18:56]  * Quintasan always wanted to *DM and splash to take users wallpaper
[18:56] <apachelogger> i.e. the "proper" ariya boot experience as intended by the mighty oxygen overlords
[18:56] <yofel> as apachelogger said (without stripes)
[18:56] <Riddell> #action make lightdm background match splash - apachelogger
[18:56] <meetingology> ACTION: make lightdm background match splash - apachelogger
[18:56] <d__ed> you canyou can't do that.
[18:56] <d__ed> *you can't do that.
[18:56] <d__ed> login manager has more than one user
[18:56] <Quintasan> d__ed: Unfortunately.
[18:56] <d__ed> therefore not possible
[18:57] <d__ed> also, plasma wallpaper is
[18:57] <d__ed> 1) not always an image
[18:57] <d__ed> 2) different per screen
[18:57] <d__ed> 3) different per activity
[18:57] <Riddell> d__ed: can't so what?
[18:57] <d__ed> oh
[18:57] <d__ed> sorry, I've misread two sentences
[18:57] <d__ed> you can't make the lightdm background match the users
[18:58] <d__ed> obviously you can make lightdm + ksplash have the same default.
[18:58] <d__ed> and that'd be awesome
[18:58] <apachelogger> (technically you can make them match given the constraints are met :P)
[18:58] <Riddell> and the pre-X splash
[18:58] <d__ed> do we have a new background?
[18:59] <d__ed> a special Kubuntu one?
[18:59] <d__ed> FWIW, LightDM-KDE right now default to whatever the plasma default one is.
[18:59] <shadeslayer> d__ed: more like, new plymouth screen
[18:59] <apachelogger> technically you can keep them all synced up as long as there is only one screen and the plasma background is an image ;)
[18:59] <Riddell> apachelogger gave ksplash and plymouth a grey background without stripes last time
[18:59] <shadeslayer> s/screen/splash/
[18:59] <apachelogger> so...
[18:59] <Riddell> apachelogger: you say that was what oxygen dudes wanted?
[18:59] <apachelogger> totally worth trying lightdm for this release, it seems table enough
[18:59] <shadeslayer> I am not particularly fond of the splash(es)
[19:00] <apachelogger> *stable even
[19:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: aye
[19:00] <apachelogger> the stripes were only intended for the desktop
[19:00] <apachelogger> as otherwise it had missed drama (i.e. it would have been too dull to look at over long period of time)
[19:01] <Riddell> got to have some drama in free software
[19:01] <apachelogger> indeed
[19:02] <d__ed> :) last release some artist made some sexy Kubuntu backgrounds
[19:02] <d__ed> the blue ones
[19:02] <d__ed> which I only saw after release.
[19:02] <Riddell> d__ed: someone within blue systems but I still don't know who
[19:02] <shadeslayer> ^
[19:02] <Riddell> mysterious lot them
[19:02] <shadeslayer> I still have the wallpapers if someone wants them
[19:02] <d__ed> could we ask to get some for this release?
[19:02] <Riddell> yeah that would be good
[19:02]  * shadeslayer would like some nice Kubuntu wallpapers on the ISO
[19:03] <d__ed> worth asking anyway (IMHO)
[19:03] <apachelogger> *calligra*
[19:03] <Riddell> #action find out who made the kubuntu wallpaper on kubuntu.org and ask them to make one for 12.10 - riddell
[19:03] <meetingology> ACTION: find out who made the kubuntu wallpaper on kubuntu.org and ask them to make one for 12.10 - riddell
[19:04] <Riddell> Calligra Suite - time to give it a chance or stay with the old?
[19:04] <Riddell> I'm still all for it, it works pleasingly well and it gives us more apps on the CD like krita
[19:04] <Riddell> and it fits in with my KDE idealism
[19:04] <apachelogger> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107577785796696065138/posts/K36rbyfXBSa
[19:04] <shadeslayer> I've done some documented editing on words, still a bit quirky, but good enough
[19:05] <d__ed> well, one option is to not go for the whole thing, if CD space is no longer an issue
[19:05] <apachelogger> just about every opinion I saw while looking for them was like the one in that poll
[19:05] <d__ed> i.e krita, but not word clone
[19:05] <apachelogger> most people do not care particularly
 I'm still -1 on Calligra by default due to lack of MS Office file format export capability.  Like it or not, that's what people deal in and we should hold our noses  a bit (it's not like LO is great either, but it is more interoperable) and ship LO by default since that will serve more users better.
[19:06] <yofel> I found words to be a bit weird so I would prefer libreoffice - if you want a serious office solution on the ISO
[19:06] <Quintasan> +1 on keeping LibreOffice
[19:06] <yofel> positive was that I at least had 0 crashes with 2.5
[19:06] <Quintasan> While Calligra is shaping nicely I can't see it being our default office suite yet.
[19:07] <Riddell> unlike libreoffice, its quality has got worse in recent releases
[19:07] <apachelogger> I would actually claim that this choice once more depends on the target audience :P
[19:07] <apachelogger> since we are not quite sure on who that is...
[19:07] <Quintasan> It works generally but has some quirks and looks unpolished.
[19:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: canonical vs BTS Travels :P
[19:08] <apachelogger> nay
[19:08] <apachelogger> well
[19:08] <apachelogger> yes
[19:08] <apachelogger> only partially though
[19:08] <apachelogger> it's also about just how much you use the stuff and what you do with them
[19:08] <apachelogger> if you write one letter a month then calligra will do the job
[19:09] <apachelogger> if you have to do serious office work (database driven mass letter production and whatnot) it may not be so suitable
[19:09] <Riddell> I think calligra would be better for that?  kexi is looking lovely, I've never got libreoffice database thing to work
[19:10] <apachelogger> (mostly you base that not on teh actual database apps but csv in the spreadsheet app ;))
[19:10] <apachelogger> at any rate
[19:10] <apachelogger> from where I am standing calligra has problems scaling up
[19:11] <apachelogger> so if we want to offer a compelling out of the box office for both home users and businesses
[19:11] <apachelogger> I do strongy believe libreoffice is the thing to use for the time being
[19:11] <Riddell> scaling up?
[19:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: I really do not see myself pulling all the template madness of everyday office live in word
[19:12] <apachelogger> so it does nto scale up from once-a-month users to daily users
[19:12] <apachelogger> former it does fine with, latter not so much
[19:12] <shadeslayer> I would actually like if Calligra just started with a default A4 template
[19:12] <shadeslayer> and then if you want, you could change templates
[19:12] <apachelogger> all that being said
[19:12] <apachelogger> if we want calligra to become a proper replacement at some point
[19:13] <apachelogger> it may be wise to put it on the image for this release
[19:14] <apachelogger> and since we have so many new apps on board we could then label this release as a tech evaluation release or something
[19:14] <apachelogger> giving users a solid base to work on, to try apps that may not yet be perfect but show great potential
[19:14] <d__ed> I think for every change you should have a release where it's in the repos but not default
[19:14] <d__ed> (like KTp and Ldm had)
[19:15] <Riddell> this has been in the repos since ubuntu began
[19:15] <apachelogger> generally I agree, but there is only so much testing you get out fo simply being in the repos
[19:17] <apachelogger> to sum up my thoughts: +1 on staying with libreoffice, +1 on using calligra but then the release should not be marketed as the latest and greatest super stable version
[19:17] <shadeslayer> alright, I need to leave, I'll be continuing from my phone
[19:17] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you have a position as a council member?
[19:18] <JontheEchidna> I think I'll have to take the more conservative route of keeping libreoffice default for this release
[19:19] <Riddell> so 1.5 votes for calligra, 2.5 votes for libreoffice
[19:19] <Riddell> I'll poke jussi and darkwing to get the full vote
[19:19] <Riddell> #action poke jussi and darking to get a full vote on calligra - riddell
[19:19] <meetingology> ACTION: poke jussi and darking to get a full vote on calligra - riddell
[19:20] <Riddell> anything else for 12.10?
[19:21] <Riddell> UDS sponsorship
[19:21] <Riddell> apachelogger, JontheEchidna: how do we decide who to sponsor?
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> that's a good question
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> I suppose we'd need to know how many people we can sponsor, and then develop some sort of criteria?
[19:22] <Quintasan> I think it's me, agateau and Alex
[19:22] <Riddell> well that's a bit unknown unless you want to do lots of time calculating the cost
[19:22] <Riddell> but we have £10000 in the bank so I think it wouldn't be a problem
[19:22] <Riddell> for those three
[19:22] <Riddell> (that's to last all year mind, so another UDS too)
[19:23] <apachelogger> I think we first should set a budget for sponsorship which ought to be a subset of all the money :P
[19:23] <Riddell> ScottK suggested we nudge them for a concrete contribution to KDE/Kubuntu that would happen because of them coming
[19:23] <apachelogger> and a plan of what they concretely want to do would be in order
[19:24] <apachelogger> also a rough estimate for travel + accomodation
[19:24] <apachelogger> also perhaps we want to talk with the kde e.v. if say agateau or afiestas want to do something very KDE focusy
[19:24] <Riddell> I'm not sure how concrete it's sensible to be, at least for upstreams like afiestas a lot of the value is in them telling us what's good and what will be good
[19:25] <apachelogger> so it'd be in the interest of KDE throwing some money at them to make that happen
[19:25] <Riddell> apachelogger: since we have the money I don't think we should be asking another body for it
[19:26] <Riddell> and e.v. aren't full of money currently so I doubt they'd be interested
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> is it known how Canonical decides to sponsor people for UDS?
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> for a set of criteria to compare to
[19:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: jono rolls a dice
[19:27] <Riddell> no idea, always been a black box to me
[19:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: :P
[19:27] <shadeslayer> its on jono's blog
[19:27] <apachelogger> that's how I'd do it :P
[19:27] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: cat /dev/random and see whose name has majority of the letters present in the first line of the output :P
[19:28] <Riddell> oh ScottK was also suggesting it might be polite to do it in private
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> the actual deciding? I agree
[19:28] <Quintasan> Ooops.
[19:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: I am not saying KDE should pay full attendance for someone but if there is a value to KDE I suppose it'd make sense if a "contribution" to the attendance was suggested
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> jono gives some criteria in this blog post, which it may be useful to consult when creating our own criteria: http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/08/01/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-4/
[19:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: ScottK has a point
[19:30] <apachelogger> also we still need a budget first :P
[19:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: like an amount for us to spend?
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> yes, I think the best way to proceed is to make a (at least rough) budget to see how many people we can sponsor in a year, develop a set of criteria to measure applicants against, and then in private make the actual sponsorship additions
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> s/additions/decisions
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> brainfart :P
[19:32] <Riddell> ok I'll do a rough budget then we can have an e-mail conversation with council members
[19:33] <Riddell> we should be mindful not to let it drag on, flights get more expensive and people need to make travel plans
[19:33] <apachelogger> Quintasan, agateau, afiestas: if you have not done so, please make an estimate for your attendance cost (travel + hostel/hotel)
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> yes, it should definitely be a priority issue for the council
[19:34] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I asked about that. Can we stay in the same hotel as the event takes place or we need to look for something cheaper?
[19:34] <apachelogger> something cheaper I'd say :P
[19:34] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: Bella Sky is *really* expensive
[19:35] <shadeslayer> 120 EUR a day I think
[19:35] <Quintasan> shadeslayer, apachelogger: That's why I'm asking :P
[19:36]  * Quintasan will look into it
[19:36] <Riddell> #action rough budget for UDS sponsored people and e-mail conversation to decide - riddell
[19:36] <meetingology> ACTION: rough budget for UDS sponsored people and e-mail conversation to decide - riddell
[19:37] <Riddell> UDS swag, I'd like to get some nice kubuntu polo shirts for UDS
[19:37] <Riddell> I think it's worth being visible
[19:37] <Riddell> ScottK said any active 12.10 contributor should get one posted out
[19:37] <JontheEchidna> it's worth looking in to
[19:38] <Riddell> rough cost up to £300
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> did we have a design in mind?
[19:38] <Riddell> just a logo embroidered on it
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> +1 from me. All I have is this lousy Ubuntu t-shirt I got at UDS-o :P
[19:39]  * Quintasan has oneiric tshirt
[19:39] <Quintasan> the logo is still visible
[19:39] <Quintasan> :D
[19:39] <Riddell> apachelogger: got a council vote?
[19:39] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually 133*5=665=~520 gbp
[19:39] <apachelogger> or 530
[19:40] <apachelogger> no clue
[19:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: +1
[19:40] <Riddell> groovy
[19:40] <Riddell> #action get kubuntu swag - riddell
[19:40] <meetingology> ACTION: get kubuntu swag - riddell
[19:41] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I thought I mentioned it was 120 EUR a day
[19:41] <Riddell> please add topics for UDS to http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-uds
[19:41] <Riddell> any other business?
[19:41] <apachelogger> nope
[19:41] <Riddell> I think we're all businessed out
[19:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: 130 != 120 :P
[19:41] <afiestas> mm
[19:41] <afiestas> it is not clear to me, should I look for hotel as well ?
[19:41] <afiestas> or only flight cost?
[19:42] <afiestas> then, send it to kubuntu-devel ? council?
[19:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ofcourse
[19:42] <apachelogger> shadeslayer, Quintasan: to put the number into context ... most copenhagen hostels are between 20-30, making a total of 120 gbp for a week :)
[19:42] <Riddell> afiestas: send to council, you already looked at hotels didn't you so maybe send estimates of cheaper and the UDS hotel?
[19:43] <shadeslayer> most hostels anywhere would cost that
[19:43] <Quintasan> apachelogger: and the even hotel would be 520gbp?
[19:43] <Quintasan> wtf
[19:43] <Riddell> Quintasan: it's a fancy conference hotel near the airport
[19:43] <shadeslayer> aye
[19:43] <apachelogger> yeah, actually that is semi-cheap compared to some of the others ^^
[19:44] <afiestas> Riddell: having another hotel will have extra costs, tarnsport and food (not that I mind to pay that myself, just saying)
[19:44] <shadeslayer> good thing is that I got sponsored, my flights would have eaten up a lot of the budget
[19:44] <afiestas> also, maybe we can ask Canonical  for a special offer? I guess they get some because of the event
[19:44] <shadeslayer> afiestas: 5000 is the special price
[19:44] <Riddell> maybe the rooms are big enough to sleep four in like in florida, but probably not
[19:45] <afiestas> shadeslayer: 5K per week?
[19:45] <afiestas> wtf?
[19:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: doesn't look like it on the website
[19:45] <shadeslayer> afiestas: 5 days
[19:45] <shadeslayer> 5K kronor
[19:45] <afiestas> 5K of what?
[19:45] <shadeslayer> a bit more actually
[19:46] <apachelogger> afiestas: ~660 EUR for 5 days assuming a shared room
[19:46] <apachelogger> I think like 100 more for a single
[19:46] <afiestas> I'm not going to be able to organize hotel myself I'm afraid, at least not this week
[19:47] <apachelogger> assuming you all three would go into a hostel at 120eur for 5 days
[19:47] <afiestas> since the hotel is near the airport, I will have to look fro transportaion and food, adn this week (that is left of it) is quite busy
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> I must be off, but I think we've covered all council business. ttyl
[19:47] <jussi> I guess Ive some reading back to do. what about calligra?
[19:47] <Riddell> jussi: needs your vote
[19:47] <jussi> sorry I missed so much
[19:47] <jussi> let me catch up
[19:48] <apachelogger> compared to all three staying in the hotel that gives 1.2k to spend on transporation and food :P
[19:48] <afiestas> apachelogger: there is the "confortable" factor
[19:48] <afiestas> if I ahve to take a 2h train twice everyday I won't go
[19:48] <Riddell> €330 a person would be within our budget
[19:49] <jussi> I am with ScottK for exactly the same reason. (re: calligra)
[19:49] <apachelogger> afiestas: I should hope that is not the case :P
[19:50] <afiestas> btw
[19:50] <afiestas> this year isn't 3 nights only?
[19:50] <afiestas> from 29 to 1?
[19:50] <afiestas> or I'm remembering it wrong?
[19:50] <apachelogger> ah, there was something, right
[19:50] <apachelogger> though I think it was 4 nights
[19:51] <Riddell> 4 days, 5 nights (unless you leave quick)
[19:51] <apachelogger> right
[19:51] <Riddell> I'm going out and returning on the saturdays
[19:51] <afiestas> so, from 28oct to nov2?
[19:51] <Riddell> yes
[19:52] <shadeslayer> I am arriving on the 27th evening, leaving 2nd morning
[19:52] <apachelogger> anywho, so since we do not have a steady income stuffing everyone into the fancy hotel for 130 a night on account of it being more comfortable seems ill-advised, which I hope is understandable
[19:52] <jussi> apachelogger: ++
[19:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: we have a budget, it is there to be spent
[19:53] <afiestas> cheapest thing for individual I found in booking is 268, looking for the individual because of my snoring
[19:53] <afiestas> I don't mind sleeping with ppl, they midn sleeping in the room I'm xD
[19:53] <afiestas> next hotel is 413€
[19:53] <afiestas> oh, there is one 346
[19:55] <Riddell> ear plugs would be cheaper
[19:55] <Riddell> anyway, to be discussed by e-mail
[19:55] <apachelogger> ^^
[19:55] <Riddell> I need to tend to my canoeists
[19:55]  * apachelogger leaves to break kmix then
[19:55] <Riddell> thanks for coming all
[19:55] <Riddell> #endmeeting
[19:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 13 19:55:52 2012 UTC.
[19:55] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-13-18.17.moin.txt
[19:55] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-13-18.17.html
[19:55]  * d__ed yawns.
[19:58] <shadeslayer> night
[21:36] <valorie> damn, missed it
[21:36] <valorie> should have put it in my phone