=== chalced is now known as chalcedony
AlanBellmorning all06:54
pinky-good morning to you too06:57
diploMorning all07:10
christelmorning lovelies07:26
MartijnVdS\o christel07:27
MartijnVdShow's you07:27
christelMartijnVdS :D07:27
christeli am well! bit sleepy, happily slept through the alarm this morning and ended up with a rather stressful start to the day!07:28
* MartijnVdS is on his first cup o'tea07:29
JamesTaitGood morning all! :-D08:15
MartijnVdS\o JamesTait08:15
JamesTaitMartijnVdS: o/08:16
MartijnVdSdear compiz/unity.. please stop half-maximizing my terminal08:17
AlanBellanyone else find unity randomly flicks to mirrored displays after logging in?08:18
MartijnVdS(I've already used ccsm to disable the bottom corners for "half screen" resize)08:18
* MartijnVdS has no mirrored display to test08:18
AlanBellso you get a useful dual display at different resolutions for a minute or so, then suddenly it goes to the lowest common denominator08:18
AlanBelland mirrors, which is almost entirely useless08:19
daubersdiplo: hello08:21
diploHi daubers08:28
diploSorry was making a cuppa and nattering :)08:29
daubersdiplo: You where after me yesterday?08:29
diploI was just wondering if you would care to share how you utilised bitfolks spamassasin setup ? Googled it las tnight and your blog post was a result :)08:29
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
diploJust set up my mail server last night and was going to add spamassasin check08:30
brobostigongood morning eveyrone.08:47
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:48
brobostigongood morning bigcalm :)08:49
bigcalmHi brobostigon :)08:49
bigcalmOnce again I am turning up the volume on my drum & bass so that it drowns out the screaming tantrums coming from next door's child08:50
daubersdiplo: Ah... I don't anymore :)08:53
daubersdiplo: got fedup of running my own mailserver and updates nerfing the config everytime08:53
pinky-bigcalm maybe it's your drum and bass making the child nextdoor scream? :)08:54
bigcalmpinky-: not unless the child is wearing my headphones08:54
christelwhyfor they tantrum so much?08:55
diplono worries daubers08:55
bigcalmchristel: maybe because they don't get the attention they used to08:56
czajkowskibigcalm: you know that may not be helping to calm the situation next door right09:00
bigcalmczajkowski: ?09:00
czajkowskithe noise09:01
bigcalmWhat noise?09:01
pinky-they say binge drinking parents affect 1 in 3 children in the UK09:01
bigcalmczajkowski: I'm wearing headphones09:01
czajkowskiah k does the speaker still not vibrate a bit ?09:01
bigcalmczajkowski: what speaker?09:02
bigcalmI'm rather confused09:02
czajkowskiok nm09:02
czajkowskilets drop it09:02
daubersstupid chroot09:05
dauberschroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory09:06
daubersthats annoying09:06
matttmaybe it's linked to something that doesn't exist?09:08
christelbigcalm: why did they stop getting the attention they used to? did you use to entertain them? :P09:08
mattt(ldd /bin/bash ?)09:08
daubersall seems to exist09:08
bigcalmchristel: o.O09:08
bigcalmchristel: they moved in last week. It's been tantrums ever since. Children suck09:09
czajkowskibigcalm: no they don't not at all, you're just rather anti them09:09
bigcalmczajkowski: it's the noise. I'm happy not to have to deal with them09:09
czajkowskiI'm sur ethey could think the same about you09:10
bigcalmI'm not anti them, just glad I'm not required to continue human existence ;)09:10
daubersso apparently bash shouldn't be working on the host os as linux-vdso.so.1 is a myth09:11
pinky-I would just try to ignore them and hoped one day they might just go away09:11
pinky-distruptive families have a habit of moving a lot09:11
czajkowskiye have no idea whats going n ther09:12
czajkowskiperhaps the poor kid is upset at the move and isn't used to their area09:12
czajkowskigive the kid a break bigcalm09:12
czajkowskimove is stressful on adults  can be hard for kids too09:12
bigcalmMy turning up my music is me ignoring them09:13
christelbigcalm: aaah moving is a bit unsettling09:13
pinky-yeah I agree, now you mention it09:13
christeli have massive tantrums whenever i move09:13
christelim not even jesting :)09:15
mungojerryif you drew a graph of tantrums during life, it would peak at age 2, unles you are an actor where it remains constat afterwards too09:16
christelthe boy wonder was much calmer about the whole moving thing than i was09:16
christelhe was just all "HEY THIS IS MY NEW HOUSE, AWESOME *RUN RUN RUN*"09:16
christeli am waiting for tantrum-hell09:17
christeli can count the ones he's had thus far on one hand and fear for the day where it becomes more frequent :x09:17
daubersurgh... loads of softlinks missing09:19
christel(which if mungojerry is correct should be soon!)09:20
mungojerryhad about 10 yesterday09:24
Laneythe terrible twos!09:24
pinky-then trublesum threes09:24
Laneyfeisty fours?09:25
christelmungojerry: when abouts do they tend to start proper? what age? :)09:27
christelthe boy has 5 months left before he's 3! we've had maybe 3 tantrums in total so far, will it suddenly pick up ? :)09:28
mungojerrywow, strange09:28
mungojerryas soon as cnadles were lit, boom09:28
mungojerrythey push all the way, making irrational requests09:29
czajkowskiaunt has a almost 3 year old, her twos were full of tantrums, the aunt would just leave her and walk away and she learnt very fast they wouldnt be tolerated09:30
popeywe had a tiny bit of "terrible twos"09:31
popeybut not much09:31
bigcalmpopey: did Sam have fewer or more tantrums because of having an older sister?09:32
bigcalmpopey: did Sam have fewer or more tantrums because of having an older sister?09:34
popeyno, sam had more than sophie09:35
bigcalm(compared to Sophie)09:35
popeybut still not loads09:35
bigcalmMaybe boys have more? Who knows09:35
mungojerrymy boy is quite spirited09:36
mungojerrylike his parents09:36
bigcalmEvery time I've driving my car this week, there has been at least one diversion. Different each time. I won't if my car is cursed09:36
mungojerryand we don't give in09:36
christeli guess part of the reason why we have very few (so far) is that it is just him so he has all the attention, all of the time09:36
popeyi was watching a ben goldacre clip on the bbc website the other day.. sam was in the room sat on the floor playing, heard a bit in the programme about god..09:37
mungojerrywell he tried walking down stiars yesterday in a way that would have proabably killed him, so either he does it properly or somethings gonna happen09:37
popey"hey, daddy, you don't believe in god do you?", "no", "Me and mummy and sophie do", "Really? Interesting. What do you think god is?", "Uhhhhhh"09:37
christel<3 sam09:37
christelhe is so cute09:38
mungojerrygoing to church is my boy's highlight of the week, he loves it. me too actually09:38
christeli am rubbish at talking with kids but i like sam and sophie, they can hold proper conversations!09:39
popeyI dont think sam and sophie have been to church other than other peoples wedding/christenings09:40
mungojerrymy boy said yesterday, "when i am a big man i can grow beard and open front door"09:40
czajkowskichristel: aye popey kids are very cute and sooo polite09:42
christelczajkowski: yah! i like them, they are funny :D09:42
popeythe school helps a lot there09:42
popeylittle things like they have to shake hands with the teacher at the end of every day09:43
czajkowskioh nice09:43
czajkowskivery nice09:43
popeyi met some random person in a pub, a while back at a party, she was ~15, and she introduced herself to me, and put her hand out to shake09:43
popeyshe went to the same school :)09:43
czajkowskianyone want to earn karma - https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/20845009:43
czajkowskipopey: nice09:44
popeylittle things like that are great for their confidence09:44
czajkowskiit's true though, the manners we pick up as children can and do define you growing up09:44
popeywhen in pubs we always get the kids to order their own food and when waiters ask how it was we get them to tell the waiter :)09:44
mungojerryi was in the dentist at age 25 and got out of the chair to swill my mouth out09:45
mungojerrythe dentist laughed his head off09:45
mungojerryhe told me thats what children do because they can't reach09:45
mungojerryi'd learned that behaviiour but didn't know why09:45
bigcalmUSB TTL thingy just came in the post. Do I work or spend the day trying to fix my WNDR3800? Ah, forgot I don't have the right screw driver though :|09:48
popeybigcalm, my mate has boxed up the wndr3700, want me to get him to ship it direct to you?09:48
bigcalmpopey: Unless he's a long distance from you, I could pick it up next week?09:49
popeyhe's in newbury09:49
popeylemme see how we can get it from hom09:49
* bigcalm goes to find out where newbury is09:50
bigcalmOh, I see. I could pick it up on of the days I'm down09:51
popeymy mate works in uxbridge, which you might be able to pass on the way out09:52
popeywhen are you down?09:52
popeyand when are you going back, and driving or train?09:52
bigcalmpopey: Thursday to Sunday09:52
popeyi might be able to get it next friday09:52
popeylemme think09:53
lubotu3another contentless ping... sigh...09:58
* bigcalm kicks argos.com09:58
christelJamesTait \o/09:59
JamesTaitchristel: Hello dahling!09:59
christelhow art thou? :P)10:00
JamesTaitchristel: Cold. :(10:00
JamesTaitSo making myself feel better with a cup of hot rooibos and a chocolate chip muffin.10:00
christeloo muffin10:01
davmor2Morning all10:04
JamesTaitdavmor2: o/10:04
christeldavmor2: did you bring me a muffin? :)10:04
davmor2JamesTait: morning and belated happy birthday10:05
JamesTaitTHank you davmor2. :)10:06
JamesTaitI'm now closer to 40 than 30.10:06
bigcalmMy laptop's update manager is really struggling to up date its cache :(10:09
davmor2christel: no but I tell you what next time I'm down soowwwwffff or your up here, I'll take time out to give you a muffin or an eclair or a Doughnut hmmmmm doughnut10:09
bigcalmMorning davmor210:10
davmor2morning bigcalm10:10
mungojerrybigcalm, i get that a lot on systems with mutiple DEs installed10:13
mungojerryyesterday popcon shagged my machine for a while10:13
mungojerrybut usually it's apt-xapian-index10:13
bigcalmI get the feeling that my DNS is buggered (even though I'm using Google)10:14
bigcalmIs http://www.diy.com/ (B & Q) full of broken images for anybody else?10:14
davmor2bigcalm: looks fine here dude10:17
bigcalmTis me then10:18
=== christel is now known as grisial
popeywaiting for diy.com....10:18
davmor2bigcalm: try a different browser10:18
popeyloaded in the end10:19
davmor2grisial: what the????10:19
grisialdavmor2: now also available in welsh!10:20
gordi'm just dubbed in welsh10:21
czajkowskigord: ello10:21
davmor2czajkowski: prod, prod, proddington, prodly proddington-smythe, hello :) Have a hug I feel like scaring you :)10:25
pinky-I've currently got the 'not sure what to do' vibe10:56
popeyI can help you fix that10:56
pinky-any suggestions?10:56
bigcalmKnow any python? ;)10:56
popeyclick those, find bugs, fix :)10:58
pinky-me clicks10:58
pinky-damn there's a lot10:59
popeysorted by heat order11:00
popeyi.e. most affected users at the top11:00
mungojerryhow much clearance should there be in an office walkway next to a fire escape?11:00
bigcalmMore than none?11:01
daubersmungojerry: Can you run down the middle while screaming in panic waving your arms in the air?11:01
mungojerrydaubers, i might, but the printer somebody has placed there might get knocked over11:01
bigcalmmungojerry: do so to prove the point11:02
daubersmungojerry: start a fire and try it?11:02
bigcalmCat swinging is also a useful guide11:02
diplomungojerry: Big company ?11:02
mungojerryi want to move the printer but i need justification11:03
mungojerrypeople come and talk right by my desk11:03
mungojerrybut it is next to a fire escape on a dodgy ikea table11:03
daubersmungojerry: set fire to the ptiner?11:03
mungojerrythat is too small for it11:03
diploAsk the H&S person to do a assesment :) I used to have to do them all the time :/11:03
mungojerryif they say no, then i miht be stuck with it11:04
mungojerryi might just move it and people will assume if was H&S11:04
diploheh, risk assessment was the work i was looking for11:04
ali1234what's the deal with bug 346386? the original report has a patch, it's marked fix released, yet there are duplicate bugs constantly since the original report and people still reporting it11:06
lubotu3Launchpad bug 346386 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "[MASTER] Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34638611:06
matttpinky-: http://www.udacity.com/11:08
* pinky- clicks11:10
mungojerryrunning iotop -b -o is quite enlightening..11:16
pinky-I'm now sat eating lunch whilst watching python videos and not so bored - thanks!11:38
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
=== grisial_ is now known as grisial
=== grisial is now known as christel
* bigcalm hugs christel12:13
popeyheh, i just got a global notice in thunderbird from christel12:13
popeyi forgot that i connected it to freenode12:13
popeymust have been connecting every day for some weeks12:13
christelsomeone told us off for the global "not just saying that you were being ddosed" i dare say it did say that, just in christelese12:14
* Laney tickles popey_tb 12:14
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
bigcalmI still don't see the point of irc via an email client, but that's just me12:23
=== _Dave2_ is now known as Dave2
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
=== dutchie_ is now known as dutchie
DJonesbigcalm: +1 to that, but I guess its no different to irc via pidgeon or a web interface, if it suits people , they'll go with it12:25
mungojerrycan someone run " sudo iotop -b -o | grep jbd" and let me know the average %12:29
mungojerry(non invasive command)12:29
Laneypeople should be suspicious when you ask them to run random commands, especially ones with sudo in12:30
Laneyyou probably want to explain what it is12:30
=== diplo_ is now known as diplo
DJonesmungojerry: http://privatepaste.com/62cabc7b5112:32
BigRedSmungojerry: https://gist.github.com/371403812:35
mungojerryit outputs the % age of i/o taken by the journaling process12:40
mungojerrythanks chaps. on a quiet system mine is quite busy12:41
mungojerrylooks a bit like BigRedS results12:42
=== dgjones is now known as DJones
=== cking_ is now known as cking
=== alexander is now known as Guest12078
=== christel_ is now known as christel
mungojerryhow does unity do the printer config? i get bug 87198513:40
czajkowskibug #87198513:42
czajkowskibah bot13:42
daubersbah bah botsheep ?13:43
=== ikonia_ is now known as ikonia
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 871985 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "The printing panel shouldn't display errors about firewalld not running" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87198513:45
mungojerrynot a low bug IMO, however not sure if it affects unity users13:47
AlanBellfor my user I have a unity laucher on every monitor whether I want it or not, however in a guest session I can choose which monitor it goes on and it actually does go there13:56
AlanBellany idea what I should be cleaning out to get my profile working right?13:56
KamiI just edited a file with root priviledges but I get error message: " Error opening file /etc .../default: permission denied - the file on disk may now be truncated" - any idea why ?14:17
Kami2nd question: instead of using gnu nano 2.2.6  as editor, I want to use geany as standard code editor, is there a way to set that it as default ?14:21
MartijnVdSKami: how did you edit the file?14:21
Kamimart - in gnu nano 2.2.6, I made the changes, I am trying to save them.14:22
MartijnVdSthe exact command please :)14:22
Kamimart - I don't understand the question. The file opened and I modified it.14:22
MartijnVdShow did you open the file?14:23
MartijnVdSI assume you typed something in a terminal window..14:23
MartijnVdSwhat did you type? :)14:23
Kamisudo nano /etc/apache2/site-available/default - my password here14:23
MartijnVdSKami: so you put your password on the same line as sudo?14:24
MartijnVdSor did you do:14:24
MartijnVdSsudo nano /etc/apache2/site-available/default14:24
MartijnVdSand then it asked for your password and you entered it14:24
MartijnVdSYou made a typo in the file name -- it's "sites-available" (plural "sites"), hence you're editing a non-existent file14:24
MartijnVdSwhich shows up empty in the editor14:24
KamiM - right about the typo, I got the second option where I was asked for my password on another line14:26
Kamias I said, I just want to save the modifications and use geany as default as opposed to gnu nano 2.2.614:26
MartijnVdSgood :) you should never have to type your password on a command line14:26
MartijnVdSyou could use 'sudo geany /etc/apache2/etc.etc.'14:27
MartijnVdSinstead of 'sudo nano'14:27
diploshouldn't you use gksudo ? ?14:28
diploI rarely use gui apps now a days14:28
AlanBellnano isn't a gui app so sudo is fine14:28
MartijnVdSI use a web browser and terminals :)14:28
MartijnVdSand rhythmbox14:28
Kamim - ok thanks. Why am I not able to save the file ?14:28
MartijnVdSAlanBell: bug geany might be14:28
diploNo he wants for Geany AlanBell14:28
AlanBellah, ok14:28
MartijnVdSKami: because the directory /etc/apache2/site-available does not exist, you have to save in a directory that exists14:29
KamiM - I have the file in front of me - with the right content - so shouldn't I be able to save the changes ?14:30
BigRedSyou can, but not into a directory that doesn't exist14:30
AlanBellthe bit I find curious is that "The file on disk may now be truncated!" is a geany error message, not a nano one14:31
Kamiwow ... so even though a directory does not exist, it opens a file inside that dir with the exact same content as a file in another directory ?14:32
AlanBellin nano you just get no write permission turning up at the bottom just above the menu14:32
AlanBellKami: no, it should be fine14:32
AlanBell  [ Read 36 lines (Warning: No write permission) ] is what you should see in nano if you open the file without sudo access14:33
AlanBelland it should be able to save it if you do have sudo access14:33
AlanBellis the directory mounted in a strange way?14:34
MartijnVdSso Kami isn't telling us the whole story :)14:34
AlanBelllike it is mounted over sshfs or something?14:34
MartijnVdSAlanBell: I think he might have opened the file in geany (without sudo)14:34
MartijnVdSAlanBell: if you say that's a geany error...14:34
KamiM -  I did not create the directory and I did not create the file. It's def a geany problem since I don't know the gnu command to save modifications of a file14:35
AlanBellright, so go to the directory and do gksudo geany default14:35
AlanBelland it will work, if you don't start geany with root permissions you will get that error, which is a complete lie, nothing will be truncated14:36
AlanBellbut that error is in the geany source code14:36
KamiI am sorry, I am a newbie, I will start  from scratch, type sudo geany /etc/apache2/etc.etc.' - edit the file and try to save it.  Does that make sense ?14:38
AlanBellgksudo geany /etc/apache2/sites-available/default14:38
AlanBellthat will work14:38
AlanBellsudo will also work but gksudo pops up a nice window for the password and apparently prevents some problem that I have never encountered14:39
Kamiyou are right - it works - thanks very much - appreciated14:41
Kamiany other tips for a newbie you feel like sharing ?14:41
czajkowskiBigRedS: ello...14:43
directhexKami, don't eat yellow snow.14:45
Kamiahahha good one tx14:46
KamiHello again guys ..   I just don't get why geany creates so many pbs: kami@ubuntu:/etc/apache2$ gksudo geany httpd.conf  gives me an geany source code error, even though the file is there. Is there an easier editor to use ?15:20
diplogedit ?15:20
Kamiit opens an empty file15:20
diploGedit does ?15:22
Kamigksudo gedit httpd.conf  does not work, it keeps looking for the file but nothing happens15:23
brobostigontrying using the whole file path,15:24
diploI've just ran it fine here15:24
diplogksudo gedit /etc/apache2/httpd.conf15:24
brobostigonyes, full path.15:24
diploI rarely edit those sort of files with a ide though, normally use vi15:24
KamiI just don't understand .... it does not open the file but just hangs15:26
diploYou've entered the password and it opens ?15:27
Kamii get a gksudo 11411 gtk warning15:27
diploSo you have typed exactly this gksudo gedit /etc/apache2/httpd.conf ?15:29
diploHow about instead doing gksudo gedit and browsing to the directory and opening it that way ?15:29
Kamii get the warning, prompted for the password , enter the password, gedit opens an empty file which just hangs15:29
diploWorks the latter way just as well15:30
KamiI must have killed too many processes  because it just keeps on hanging15:31
diploReboot and start afresh, works fine on all my systems15:31
Kamiyou're probably right, thanks.15:31
=== lan3y is now known as Laney
* awilkins just uses sudo vim16:09
=== Azelphur_ is now known as Azelphur
* jacobw is hopeless vimmer16:29
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
=== MattJ100 is now known as MattJ
=== MattJ is now known as Guest61229
knightnexusHey everyone18:13
knightnexusHey xnox18:16
knightnexusVoicedictation is pretty cool on an irc client18:17
xnoxknightnexus: hola18:17
knightnexushownae you dude18:18
knightnexusTryin out an android linix client here18:18
knightnexusIrc client18:19
knightnexusSwipe yo swo18:20
knightnexusSwipe  to switch channels is cool18:20
knightnexusSrry bout the typos18:20
=== sam_nazarko is now known as Guest92481
=== MattJ100 is now known as MattJ
czajkowskipopey: so I'm hitting18:55
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 1045268 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in UnityWebappsContextRaiseCallback_dispatcher()" [Undecided,Invalid]18:55
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 1041466 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in UnityWebappsContextPrepareCallback_dispatcher()" [Undecided,Invalid]18:55
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 1028060 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in UnityWebappsContextPrepareCallback_dispatcher()" [Undecided,Invalid]18:55
czajkowskibut it keeps being marked as invalid any idea how I can get it looked at as my chrome has crashed a lot today with this same bug being opened18:55
=== lubotu3` is now known as lubotu3
popeyczajkowski, sorted19:04
Laneyapport won't be able to retrace from the PPA package19:04
popeyczajkowski, if you file any more which look like they might be webapps related, change the 'affects' to libunity-webapps, or ping us (or ken) and we can look at it19:05
popeyalso, can you list what ppas you have in use?19:05
czajkowskisure can do19:06
czajkowskihow do I do that ?19:06
popeycat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* | pastebinit19:06
popeyassuming you have package pastebinit installed :)19:06
popeychange that:-19:06
popeycat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list | pastebinit19:07
czajkowskilet me make it unprivate19:10
czajkowskipopey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/libunity-webapps/+bug/105056419:10
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 1050564 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in UnityWebappsContextRaiseCallback_dispatcher()" [Undecided,New]19:10
mattthappy thursday evening everyone19:21
mattttwo bee19:57
czajkowskipopey: can sky do http://cheezburger.com/3441996920:39
czajkowskiso want a pug :/20:43
czajkowskiand I have a name and all picked for it20:43
czajkowskibut just cant have one now :(20:44
popeybut... they're _so_ fugly20:51
czajkowskiwrinkly and cute20:52
matttpugs have weird breathing issues too i think20:52
czajkowskiand small and cuddly20:52
czajkowskimattt: yes20:53
matttthey are cute tho :)20:53
mgdmbreathing issues and I think hip joint ones too, if they're bred for small size20:54
mgdmthough I might be mixing that up20:54
AlanBellxnox: ever tried using the installer with orca?20:57
AlanBellbung a cd in, turn the monitor off, wait for the drums and hit Ctrl+s20:57
AlanBellthen get to the end of ubiquity without turning the monitor back on20:58
xnoxAlanBell: I fixed the high-contrast a11y theming bug which is very old.... do I get any points?! =)20:58
AlanBell+1 point for xnox20:59
xnoxAlanBell: you can actually see the prepare page & manual partitioning now20:59
czajkowskiAlanBell: see arent you glad I told you xnox was in here now :)20:59
xnoxAlanBell: I know gtk quite well, but there is not enough ATK / AT-SPI (?!) documentation and tutorials.21:00
AlanBellyes, that is keyboard navigable, I saw that working21:00
xnoxAlanBell: I went to #a11y @ GIMPNet and they couldn't explain much to me.21:00
xnoxI asked "How do I trigger an 'announce' event to the screenreaders?!"21:01
AlanBellthe main thing is having a completable path through ubiquity to the end21:01
xnoxand they said it's not possible, you can only do hints to the at-spi and screenreaders may decide to do something sensible.21:01
AlanBellthe screen reader kind of reads what you can put keyboard focus on21:02
xnoxAlanBell: can you give me an example of a good application which is "completable" with a screenreader?21:02
xnoxBut if there is no focus?21:02
AlanBellso stuff like the unity shortcuts overlay is a pile of fail because you can't focus on it at all21:02
AlanBellyou can do a flat review in orca and browse about the gtk structure of some applications21:02
AlanBellkind of like using parasite21:02
xnoxe.g. I make OK button not sensitive when password fields do not match. But how can I tell the screenreader that it's not sensitive and more importantly why?21:03
* xnox has nothing to do with unity. plus by default ubiquity runs in a metacity session21:03
xnoxAlanBell: so, which Gtk+ apps are actually good with a11y?21:04
* xnox ponders if ocra itself is accessible21:04
AlanBellgedit is OK21:04
AlanBellorca itself is accessible and has a huge preferences dialog with lots of widgets in it21:05
AlanBellorca help is technically accessible but not structured very nicely for screen readers21:05
AlanBellI don't really like the way we assume people using orca already know how to use screenreaders21:06
* xnox yes, we suck. how can we suck less?21:06
AlanBellin ubiquity the keyboard detection stuff and the world map thing are basically unuseable, but that isn't a showstopper as it does the right thing if you are connected to the internet when running it21:07
AlanBellI proposed some changes to orca, but the gnome folk were not enthusiastic about it21:07
czajkowskignome not enthuastic to change, news at 12 :)21:08
MartijnVdSoh they like change21:08
MartijnVdSas long as it involves removing options21:08
AlanBelland doesn't come from Ubuntu21:08
MartijnVdSah yes, because Canonical is the devil21:08
xnoxAlanBell: Alt underscore capital L plus shift plus two21:09
* xnox lol21:09
AlanBellbasically I want orca to start with "Welcome to Ubuntu, this is the Orca screen reader, press space to learn how to use orca or alt-tab to focus on another window and start using it"21:11
xnoxAlanBell: well orca itself is state-less hence it's good for a screenreader. ubiquity is not state-less it has global and mini state machines. Which is well hard to describe with a narative21:11
AlanBellrather than "Welcome to orca, orca screen reader window, preferences button"21:12
xnoxAlanBell: we actually have some code in ubiquity to set ATK description on every single widget, apart from it looks like it's in a dead-end code path and not actually used.21:12
AlanBellthere was some code that screwed up the ATK description of everything so that an automated test framework could run it21:13
xnoxAlanBell: isn't that change simply a Label in the ocra window?21:13
xnoxyeah, but I'm yet to find people who did LTP!21:13
xnoxif I can autorun ubiquity UI test scripted, I would have more time to do other bits21:13
xnoxAlanBell: how does debian gtk installer compare? is that accessible?21:14
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
xnoxAlanBell: ok, I quite ocra and it said "Quit push button." (standard Gtk+ stuff) "Good bye."21:15
xnoxhow did it pronounce Good bye?!21:15
* xnox hmmm....21:15
AlanBellline 881 of orca.py21:16
AlanBell1009 is message = _("Welcome to Orca.")21:16
AlanBell881:    orca_state.activeScript.presentMessage(_("Goodbye."))21:17
Monotokowhat's the best software to use to monitor about 4 servers? Just need to make sure all processes are up and check RAM/hard disk space21:18
xnoxMonotoko: check_mk21:18
xnoxMonotoko: install icinga + check_mk. Configure icinga (see readme) + add 4 lines of check_mk config (hostnames)21:18
Monotokohmmm that sounds pretty easy21:18
Monotokoil install it in my local VM network and see if it works :)21:19
xnoxMonotoko: regenerate configs and you should have all standard checks (cpu usage, disk space, raid monitoring, heartbeat, internet, traffic.....) for 4 servers in less than 30 minutes21:19
xnoxMonotoko: add one line of python to inventorised "interesting" ports/processes and you are done.21:19
Monotokothank you xnox21:21
xnoxMonotoko: it's on my todo list to blog about it21:22
xnoxnagios.... for pragmatic people21:23
mgdmits config is a little odd but it does tend to just work21:25
xnoxmgdm: yes. check_mk takes hostnames. resolves IPs & generates piles of nagios configs for most of usual things: CPU load, disk space, network i/o, processes, package upgrades, etc....21:26
xnoxmgdm: my check_mk config was 60 lines vs 340 lines of nagios (manual) config, I had all the previous checks (~40) + got 300 extra from check_mk21:27
xnoxcause it knowns about traps, MIBs, hearbeat, and many things I didn't have time to configure manually in nagios.21:27
mgdmif I'd known about tht the first time I'd done it I'd have been happier :)21:28
xnoxAlanBell: orca is not useful. it's a screenreader so it has it's own private APIs to modify the scripts it's talking on the fly. As an external application (ubiquity) I cannot tell Orca "Switching to partitioning page"21:29
xnoxxchat is silent under orca =)21:31
AlanBellyeah, you are not supposed to tell it what to say, you just make sure the application is keyboard navigable and things are described correctly so it can read them21:34
AlanBell/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/orca/scripts/apps has application specific hacks and tweaks21:36
* mgdm often means to ask popey what that quit message refers to21:50
* xnox done!23:14
xnoxI shrunk my partition and created a new one. The old one was LUKS + LVM + EXT4 with extends all over the place. Now I have small LUKS + (still with LVM and EXT4) but also an unencrypted luks for sbuild and stuff =)23:15
ubunkunubiwell, thats that delt with23:26
=== chalced is now known as chalcedony

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