[00:04] <phunyguy> no I am not referring to the lvm one
[00:06] <phunyguy> I am referring to the app in 12.04 referred to as "Disk Utility"
[00:15] <phunyguy> also, how does one connect to IRC with Empathy now?
[00:20] <ActionParsnip> https://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#How_can_I_connect_to_IRC_in_Empathy_.3F
[00:24] <DracoDanLRPC> If there is a package in 12.10 that is outdated, where do I start with getting someone to look at updating it?
[00:24] <DracoDanLRPC> the package is targetcli
[00:24] <Daekdroom> !schedule
[00:25] <Daekdroom> We are past feature freeze, so it's unlikely for it to be updated at this point.
[00:25] <Daekdroom> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
[00:25] <DracoDanLRPC> its not a feature upgrade, its a functionality upgrade
[00:25] <DracoDanLRPC> the version should be 2.0rc1-2
[00:25] <Daekdroom> !info targetcli
[00:26] <DracoDanLRPC> ...strange
[00:26] <DracoDanLRPC> can you see when it was last updated?
[00:26] <DracoDanLRPC> I'm about to patch to beta1
[00:27] <Daekdroom> 5 months ago, according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/targetcli
[00:28] <DracoDanLRPC> look at the downloads for that, it shows both rc1 and rc1-2
[00:29] <Daekdroom> What do you mean by downloads?
[00:29] <ActionParsnip> DracoDanLRPC: could see if there is a ppa
[00:29] <DracoDanLRPC> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/targetcli/2.0rc1-2
[00:29] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: -2 is the package version not the upstream version
[00:30] <Daekdroom> And that is the changelog.
[00:30] <Daekdroom> The only version available at the repos is rc1-2
[00:34] <DracoDanLRPC> okay, in my attempts to get it working on my system I seem to have made a mess... bbiab when I learn how ubuntu package management works and clean up my system...
[00:36] <DracoDanLRPC> one part that confuses me is that the version from the risingtidesystems.com git repo requires python 2.6 (not 2.7), but the debian and ubuntu version seem to be built on 2.7
[00:38] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: there aren't any patches on the package as far as I can see
[00:40] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: what errors are you getting?
[00:42] <DracoDanLRPC> actually, I just went to grab the link from my email and noticed that I finally heard back from the mailing list!
[00:43] <DracoDanLRPC> turns out the biggest problem was not handling an error which caused a stack trace
[00:43] <DracoDanLRPC> but now the biggest problem is the mess I've made on my system...
[00:51] <jetsaredim> anyone know what happened to the pidgin entry in the messaging notifier?
[00:53] <Daekdroom> jetsaredim, the messaging indicator API was changed and pidgin's plugin for it has yet to be updated.
[00:53] <Daekdroom> Bug #1040259
[00:53] <jetsaredim> fun times
[01:03] <DracoDanLRPC> woot!  think Im getting the hang of this dpkg stuff now :-P
[01:04] <DracoDanLRPC> except targetcli still doesnt work after reinstalling it :-(
[01:12] <phunyguy> ActionParsnip, have you tried the how-to you posted?
[01:13] <phunyguy> in 12.10, when you go to accounts in empathy, it brings you to system->online accounts now.
[01:13] <phunyguy> and IRC ain't in the list.
[01:14] <phunyguy> And personally, I like having the notifications in the envelope up top... which Xchat isn't giving me.
[01:14] <Daekdroom> phunyguy, for XChat, that functionality is provided in a separate package.
[01:14] <Daekdroom> xchat-indicator
[01:15] <Daekdroom> (xchat-gnome-indicator if you're using XChat-GNOME)
[01:15] <phunyguy> Daekdroom, thanks
[01:17] <ActionParsnip> phunyguy: which one?
[01:17] <trism> phunyguy: account-plugin-irc isn't installed by default, which is why it isn't in the list
[01:17] <ActionParsnip> phunyguy: I don't use empathy, I'm still on my 11 year habit of Pidgin
[01:18] <phunyguy> ActionParsnip, pidgin doesn't give you fits in Ubuntu?
[01:18] <Daekdroom> Is pidgin that old?
[01:18] <phunyguy> Daekdroom, pidgin, no, but gaim maybe
[01:18] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: it used to be called Gaim back in the day
[01:19] <Daekdroom> That I do know.
[01:19] <Daekdroom> But 11-year seems too long even for Gaim
[01:19] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: but yes its dead old and rocks imho
[01:19] <DracoDanLRPC> can I use apt-get to reinstall a package?
[01:19] <phunyguy> ActionParsnip, I always had issues with it in Unity
[01:19] <Daekdroom> Pidgin is not very good with Unity indeed, but it's mostly window management issues.
[01:20] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin_(IM_client)   1998 as gaim initially
[01:20] <phunyguy> brb
[01:20] <phunyguy> ahh nevermind
[01:21] <phunyguy> cant restart yet, 1TB file transfer isn't finished ><
[01:21] <ActionParsnip> phunyguy: never had an issue, launch the irc channel, minimise main window and off you go. It even groups in the default alt+tab plugin to show all windows associated with pidgin
[01:21] <phunyguy> ActionParsnip, I had issues with not being able to get the contact list to foreground.
[01:21] <ActionParsnip> phunyguy: tried alt+tab ?
[01:21] <phunyguy> drove me bananas
[01:22] <phunyguy> yes but I am not a natural alt-tabber
[01:22] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: apt-get install --reinstall package_name
[01:22] <ActionParsnip> phunyguy: ah, i see
[01:22] <Daekdroom> I usually closed it using the Launcher then clicked on it again and the contact list would show up
[01:22] <phunyguy> Empathy is tolerable currently
[01:22] <Daekdroom> But that stopped being necessary.
[01:23] <phunyguy> Empathy really has come a long way, but it still has a ways
[01:23] <Daekdroom> I can't stand using Empathy because it keeps failing connection to the protocols and account-plugin keeps losing access to my Google/Windows Live accounts >:(
[01:23] <trism> I find it easier to get to the pidgin contact list if I whitelist the status icon and enable it, then one click
[01:23] <ActionParsnip> there is a PPA to put the pidgin password into the keyring rather than plaintext in ~/.purple too (very cool imho)
[01:24] <phunyguy> ActionParsnip, agreed.  Maybe I will give it a whirl again
[01:27] <phunyguy> and yes Daekdroom empathy is losing access to my google account as well.  Shame because I really like the online-accounts integration feature.
[01:28] <Daekdroom> ActionParsnip, is that https://launchpad.net/~pidgin-gnome-keyring/+archive/ppa ?
[01:30] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: indeed
[01:31] <DracoDanLRPC> trism: thanks!
[01:31] <DracoDanLRPC> I was trying apt-get --reinstall <pkg> :-P
[01:42] <DracoDanLRPC> whatever I've done to this system.... @#%^
[01:42] <DracoDanLRPC> I think I'm gonna have to reinstall ubuntu :-(
[01:42] <DracoDanLRPC> I had tried two different things to get python 2.6 installed, using pythonbrew and installing older python2.6 packages
[01:43] <DracoDanLRPC> all is removed now, but running python --version gives me 2.6.7
[01:45] <dr_willis> python --version
[01:45] <dr_willis> Python 2.7.3
[01:45] <dr_willis> how about the 'alterantives' perhaps its pointing to an older one.. not sure how.
[01:45] <dr_willis> !alternative
[01:45] <dr_willis> doh wrong factoid
[01:47] <DracoDanLRPC> root@dracosan:~# python --version
[01:47] <DracoDanLRPC> Python 2.6.7
[01:49]  * DracoDanLRPC does an apt-get install --reinstall python-all
[01:50] <DracoDanLRPC> nope!
[01:50] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: sudo apt-get install --reinstall python-minimal;
[01:52] <dr_willis>  /etc/alternatives/python   perhaps is set wrong.  DracoDanLRPC
[01:52] <dr_willis> if it even exists.. ;)
[01:52] <trism> python doesn't use alternatives
[01:53] <DracoDanLRPC> trism: same :-(
[01:53] <dr_willis> im out of ideas then. ;) i rarely use  fancy features of python
[01:53] <DracoDanLRPC> so... I think the problem came from me using bzr to grab python2.6 and build it from source.............
[01:54] <dr_willis> in which case  what does 'which python' say?
[01:54] <DracoDanLRPC> I'm considering just blowing away the directories and the executable and then reinstalling
[01:54] <dr_willis> which python
[01:54] <dr_willis> /usr/bin/python
[01:54] <DracoDanLRPC> /usr/local/bin/python
[01:54] <dr_willis> there ya go. :)
[01:54] <dr_willis>  /usr/bin/python --version    vs   /usr/local/bin/python
[01:55] <dr_willis>  /usr/bin/python --version    vs   /usr/local/bin/python --version
[01:55] <DracoDanLRPC> root@dracosan:~# which python
[01:55] <DracoDanLRPC> root@dracosan:~# python --version
[01:55] <DracoDanLRPC> -su: /usr/local/bin/python: No such file or directory
[01:55] <DracoDanLRPC> wat
[01:55] <dr_willis> heh. perhaps its using some cache of python in ram?
[01:55] <dr_willis> or was...
[01:55] <DracoDanLRPC> giving the full path works
[01:56] <dr_willis> ive seen bash get confused at times when you add.remove things fromn its path.
[01:56] <DracoDanLRPC> I deleted the python from /usr/local/bin/
[01:56] <dr_willis> I was thinking there was some bash command to rescan the default paths to get it straightend out
[01:56] <dr_willis> its thinking its still there
[01:56] <dr_willis> how about opening a new terminal and see what one is used then.
[01:57] <DracoDanLRPC> already on it :-)
[01:57] <DracoDanLRPC> that fixed it, thanks!
[01:59] <DracoDanLRPC> it still complains that rtslib is missing :-(
[01:59] <dr_willis> I dont even know what rtslib is. ;)
[01:59] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: python-rtslib
[01:59] <DracoDanLRPC> just found that, lol
[02:00] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: apt-get build-dep targetcli; helps
[02:00] <DracoDanLRPC> doesnt help
[02:01] <trism> DracoDanLRPC: no?
[02:02] <DracoDanLRPC> FIXED!
[02:02] <DracoDanLRPC> thanks a ton for your help and patience trism, you rock
[02:03] <DracoDanLRPC> I had to uninstall and reinstall python-rtslib
[02:03] <dr_willis> and dance a jig.
[02:03] <DracoDanLRPC> doing an apt-get install --reinstall python-rtslib didnt fix it though
[02:08] <trism> strange
[03:21] <DracoDanLRPC> more ubuntu questions... kinda
[03:22] <DracoDanLRPC> how do I pass options to kernel modules?  just put a file named <module>.conf in /etc/modprobe.d ?
[03:22] <DracoDanLRPC> and the options in that file of course
[03:25] <ActionParsnip> DracoDanLRPC: yes, if you can add:   options modulename whatever=value
[03:25] <ActionParsnip> DracoDanLRPC: add it in a new file in /etc/modprobe.d/something.conf    it must end in '.conf'
[03:27] <DracoDanLRPC> and I see that I can monitor the module in sysfs
[03:27] <DracoDanLRPC> thanks
[03:29] <DracoDanLRPC> modinfo qla2xxx | grep parm
[03:29] <DracoDanLRPC> parm:           qlini_mode:Determines when initiator mode will be enabled. Possible values: "exclusive" - initiator mode will be enabled on load, disabled on enabling target mode and then on disabling target mode enabled back; "disabled" - initiator mode will never be enabled; "enabled" (default) - initiator mode will always stay enabled. (charp)
[03:30] <DracoDanLRPC> cat /etc/modprobe.d/qla2xxx.conf
[03:30] <DracoDanLRPC> options qla2xxx qlini_mode="disabled"
[03:30] <DracoDanLRPC> cat qlini_mode
[03:30] <DracoDanLRPC> enabled
[03:30] <DracoDanLRPC> sorry, that was probably too much to paste
[03:31] <DracoDanLRPC> point is that after rebooting it doesn't seem to have worked :-/
[03:41] <DracoDanLRPC> oh, gotta rebuild initrd
[03:58] <bjsnider> can someone please install firefox-dev and run a command for me
[03:58] <bjsnider> it is a very small package
[03:59] <trism> which command? I powered down by quantal box but I can check if it isn't something I don't already know
[04:00] <bjsnider> pkg-config --cflags mozilla-plugin
[04:01] <bjsnider> i need the output obviously
[04:01] <bjsnider> from the terminal
[04:01] <bjsnider> this will work in kde, gnome, whatever you want
[04:01] <trism> bjsnider: I believe it was the same as precise, -DXP_UNIX -I/usr/include/firefox
[04:01] <trism> bjsnider: but I can boot and check quantal if you'd like
[04:01] <bjsnider> i need to know for sure
[04:01] <bjsnider> thank you
[04:01] <trism> alright one sec
[04:01] <bjsnider> i'd appreciate it
[04:03] <trism> bjsnider: yes, same as precise
[04:04] <bjsnider> trism, now, can you ls /usr/include/firefox
[04:04] <trism> npapi.h  npfunctions.h  npruntime.h  nptypes.h  nspr
[04:04] <bjsnider> npapi.h is there
[04:04] <trism> yep
[04:05] <trism> I checked that the other day when you were having the issue, though it seems the package is tiny compared to precise (it doesn't have much beside that)
[04:05] <bjsnider> what's the approximate file size?
[04:06] <trism> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 28846 Sep  6 06:08 /usr/include/firefox/npapi.h
[04:06] <trism> same as precise for that file though (size wise anyway)
[04:08] <bjsnider> trism, lsb_release -rs
[04:08] <bjsnider> you'll have to install that package
[04:09] <trism> Installed-Size: 245 versus Installed-Size: 30207 on precise
[04:09] <trism> 12.10 for the lsb_release
[04:10] <bjsnider> well, this is weird
[04:10] <bjsnider> trism, that's all i needed, thanks
[04:11] <trism> no problem
[04:13] <bjsnider> oh, now i see what's happening
[04:16] <bjsnider> trism, can you do something else please
[04:16] <bjsnider> ls /usr/lib/firefox-devel
[04:17] <trism> bjsnider: *shrugs* just shutdown again, one sec
[04:17] <bjsnider> sorry
[04:19] <bjsnider> ls /usr/lib/firefox-devel -l
[04:19] <bjsnider> need to know symlinks too
[04:19] <trism> not there at all
[04:20] <bjsnider> uh
[04:20] <bjsnider> ok
[04:20] <bjsnider> that'sa  bit of a problem
[04:20] <bjsnider> and if you run this command:
[04:20] <bjsnider>  pkg-config --variable=sdkdir mozilla-plugin
[04:21] <trism> there is an if in the firefox-dev.install.in for 12.10 that only has MOZ_INC/np* instead of the rest, might have something to do with it
[04:21] <trism> that command returns /usr/lib/firefox-devel/ but its not there
[04:21] <bjsnider> yeah, that's my point
[04:22] <bjsnider> it's there in precise
[04:22] <bjsnider> is there a missing dependency?
[04:23] <bjsnider> my rules code is working but the sdk variable holds a nonexistent location i guess
[04:23] <trism> nope, it seems like it was omitted on purpose though looking at the install file, maybe chrisccoulson knows?
[04:24] <bjsnider> maybe that variable hasn't been changed yet?
[04:26] <bjsnider> jeez, i'm glad my code's working at least
[04:26] <bjsnider> i haven't done anything wrong
[04:28] <bjsnider> /usr/lib/firefox-devel was installed by firefox-dev in precise
[04:28] <bjsnider> i thinkt he variable should probably read /usr/include/firefox
[04:34] <trism> out of curiosity what error do you get when the build fails?
[04:37] <bjsnider> trism, in the /usr/include/firefox/nspr directory, is nspr.h there?
[04:37] <bjsnider> trism, complains about lack of npapi.h
[04:37] <bjsnider> which is perfectly understandable given the changes from precise to quantal
[04:38] <trism> nope, nothing in that directory but md/_linux.cfg
[04:39] <bjsnider> you're kidding me
[04:39] <bjsnider> are you kidding me?
[04:40] <trism> bjsnider: everything in the firefox-dev package http://paste.ubuntu.com/1204072/
[04:41] <trism> bjsnider: debian/firefox-dev.install.in has %%if DISTRIB_VERSION >= 1210 @MOZ_INCDIR@/np*.h %%else install everything below, so kind of makes sense but the changelog gives no indication why that I can see
[04:42] <bjsnider> micahg told me the reason for the change was that the api changed too often to offer the headers
[04:43] <bjsnider> building against them would be pointless because they'll be different soon, in other words
[04:43] <trism> oh nm: * Kill the SDK - nothing in the archive depends on it (note, we still provide the NPAPI SDK though) in 14.0~b7+build1-0ubuntu1
[04:43] <trism> I see
[04:44] <bjsnider> gecko-mediaplayer builds against the sdk
[04:44] <bjsnider> the plugin.cpp file says it needs the following headers:
[04:45] <bjsnider> nsIPrefBranch.h nsIPrefService.h nsIServiceManager.h nsISupportsPrimitives.h
[04:45] <bjsnider> all provided by firefox-dev in precise
[04:45] <bjsnider> or it requires nspr.h
[04:46] <bjsnider> i guess that's the end of gecko-mediaplayer in quantal
[04:50] <micahg> bjsnider: nspr.h should be provided by libnspr4-dev, not firefox-dev
[04:51] <bjsnider> oh, cool
[04:51] <bjsnider> maybe i can get it to build then
[04:51] <micahg> linking against firefox's nspr is a recipe for trouble
[04:51] <bjsnider> what is nspr anyway?
[04:51] <micahg> netscape portable runtime library
[04:52] <trism> yep gecko-mediaplayer fails to rebuild: plugin.h:40:19: fatal error: npapi.h: No such file or directory, since its looking in -I/usr/lib/firefox-devel/include
[04:54] <bjsnider> trism, try building with libnspr4-dev, and pass --with-xulrunner-sdk=/usr/include/firefox
[04:55] <micahg> it should really be patched to use the mozilla-plugin.pc file
[04:56] <trism> it is, but it is looking at --variable=sdkdir instead of --cflags
[04:56] <bjsnider> what should?
[04:56] <micahg> gecko-mediaplayer
[04:56] <trism> and changing it to /usr/include/firefox doesn't help because it then looks in /usr/include/firefox/include
[04:56] <trism> plus a bunch of other directories that used to be linked in /usr/lib/firefox-devel
[04:59] <trism> too tired to look right now though, good luck with your build bjsnider
[04:59] <bjsnider> GECKO_CFLAGS="-I$XULRUNNER_SDK_PREFIX/include
[05:35] <DracoDanLRPC> ugh, FML.  Now this server keeps pausing for like a minute at a time
[05:35] <DracoDanLRPC> just when I thought I had everything fixed
[05:39] <DracoDanLRPC> okay, now it seems to have simply stopped.  went to the console and couldn't get any response
[05:39] <DracoDanLRPC> yet it responds to pings
[05:41] <DracoDanLRPC> could reconfiguring the HBA cause that?
[10:30] <siganderson> emesene crashes while I login: http://pastebin.com/s0sHL261   it should be some problem with python in ubuntu 12.10
[10:36] <rose7676> help for ati drivers install
[10:37] <siganderson> rose7676, what's your problem?
[10:38] <rose7676> siganderson,  sudo apt-get install fglrx fglrx-amdcccle >>>>  fglrx : Depends: xorg-video-abi-11 but it is not installable  E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[10:38] <rose7676> siganderson, now fix ?
[10:39] <siganderson> rose7676, that's a problem in repos, the only fix is to wait
[10:39] <siganderson> or you could install the binary driver by downloading it from www.amd.com
[10:40] <rose7676> siganderson, manual no installl again problem :(
[10:43] <siganderson> rose7676, are you italian? come to #ubuntu-it-chat
[10:46] <rose7676> но но
[10:48] <siganderson> the only way to use fglrx on 12.10 is to install manually from the binary release on the amd site; it will be so until they will fix the repos
[11:33] <Guest29868> Hi, I updated my quantal and lost grub, so I booted from the liveCD and tried: $ sudo grub-install /dev/sda
[11:33] <Guest29868> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub (is /dev mounted?).
[11:33] <Guest29868> what am I doing wrong, please?
[12:01] <zekoZeko> hey everyone, I upgraded a few days ago and I'm noticing a bug with window switching.
[12:02] <zekoZeko> sometimes when i alt+tab switch to another window, the new window is not focused
[12:02] <zekoZeko> so i have to click on it, or switch to another windows and back and then it's OK
[12:02] <zekoZeko> i tried searching if a bug was already submitted, but was unsuccessful, maybe i used too generic terms
[12:35] <Daekdroom> I'm wondering why the GTK2 version of Ambiance hasn't been updated to have black menus (I suppose the same thing happens to Radiance).
[13:04] <dupondje> Everybody ever ran linux gui on a remote server to code? and then connect to it with vnc ? :p
[13:06] <geser> it's probably faster than X11 over the network
[13:07] <dupondje> now using vi, but its not always cool to code with it :(
[13:07] <geser> I know
[13:08] <dupondje> good for small files :) sux for big projects
[13:08] <geser> I now use sshfs to get the remote code repositories to my computer and then use the IDE
[13:09] <dupondje> hmz, could be an option also
[13:10] <dupondje> still a full remote gui is better, if you change settings of the ide for example
[13:10] <dupondje> hmz ... :D
[13:10] <geser> or use the server as a git/bzr/..  server and use a local branch
[13:11] <geser> too many options to choose from :)
[13:11] <dupondje> only the speed ofc
[13:12] <dupondje> would a full desktop remotely be fast enough ... :D
[13:13] <geser> I tried that first too (with NV) but it wasn't fast enough (using the IDE didn't feel smooth)
[13:44] <rye> Hi, does anybody see weird font hinting/size in current Quantal? http://ubuntuone.com/4FzErYocDSeN4CN5g9hxCN - that's what my font looks everywhere
[13:45] <rye> I've been googling around but don't see any similar reports
[13:56] <jbicha> rye: you need to install ubuntu-settings, it should be a dependency of ubuntu-desktop but it might require a dist-upgrade to get it
[13:57] <jokerdino> rye: if anything, change the hinting to slight in gnome-tweak-tool
[14:04] <bjsnider> ubuntu-settings. now, is that any relation to gnome-tweak?
[14:11] <rye> ubuntu-desktop: Installed: (none)
[14:11] <rye> jbicha: thank you! I should have checked I have all the metapackages installed
[16:04] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[16:34] <DrHalan> anyone else having flickering issues with unity lately?
[18:01] <BluesKaj> the last update/upgrade  put me into grub rescue after the required reboot , and this partition doesn't control grub , or at least it isn't supposed to.
[18:01] <jtaylor> there seem to be some issues with the new grub2
[18:02] <BluesKaj> new?
[18:02] <jtaylor> mine won't even install because of a to large image
[18:02] <jtaylor> grub 2.00 instead of 1.99
[18:03] <BluesKaj> but why would grub that's installed on my 12.04 partition be affected by an upgrade on my 12.10 partition
[18:03] <Pici> jtaylor: I was just going to say that I saw someone with the same problem in another channel.... but that someone was you.
[18:03] <jtaylor> :)
[18:03] <jtaylor> I'm still waiting for -4 to show up on my mirror, maybe it fixes the issue
[18:04] <BluesKaj> 12,04 is the boot partition, what don't I understand about this issue ?
[18:05] <jtaylor> grub tends to take over the boot record on upgrades
[18:05] <jtaylor> for me it constantly changes between debian and ubuntu's grub each time it gets upgraded in one of the two
[18:06] <BluesKaj> is it safe to remove grub from this partition, then
[18:06] <BluesKaj> ?
[18:07] <BluesKaj> why would we need 2 grubs is the real question
[18:09] <bjsnider> you can never have too many grubs
[18:13] <trism> new menu is kind of vague, just says "Ubuntu" and "Advanced Options for Ubuntu"
[18:15] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, could you elaborate pls ?
[18:17] <bjsnider> BluesKaj, i was kidding
[18:18]  * BluesKaj shrugs , I'm still confused
[18:20] <wilee-nilee> jtaylor, grub will take over the mbr in a distro upgrade yes.
[18:20] <wilee-nilee> easily fixed
[18:21] <trism> it really shouldn't, you usually get a debconf prompt asking you to install grub somewhere (assuming you didn't install grub when installing +1, ubiquity -b), it didn't touch my setup
[18:22] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, so would you know if it's safe for me to remove grub from this install and rely on grub on the other to boot from
[18:22] <bjsnider> yeah, because you just need the kernel, that's what is booting
[18:24] <BluesKaj> the other OS/grub sees the all the kernels on the HDD , does it not ?
[18:24] <bjsnider> if you install a new kernel in the os without grub, you'll have to boot into the grub os and re-run update-grub
[18:24] <wilee-nilee> trism, a user that understand that would not be complaining about grub I would think it is easily manipulated.
[18:27] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, that make sense , but as I asked before why would a kernel upgrade create chos in grub that resides on a differnt partition/OS?
[18:27] <BluesKaj> chaos
[18:27] <bjsnider> chaos?
[18:28] <BluesKaj> yeah , like grub rescue
[18:28] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, You have to know which grub is in the mbr, and update accordingly.
[18:28] <BluesKaj> i had to go into tyhe live cd a nd reinstall grub on the boot partition
[18:30] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, I doubt you need a boot partition to begin with.
[18:30] <BluesKaj> wilee-nilee, I do know , that's the whole point of this discussion , grub on the boot partition shouldn't be wiped out by an upgrade on a differnt install
[18:30] <wilee-nilee> having a boot partition just convolutes the process more than is needed to be honest.
[18:31] <BluesKaj> sorry boot partition is a misnomer , the / partition of the other OS
[18:33] <BluesKaj> it's flagged as boot in fdisk
[18:33] <wilee-nilee> I think you may not understand the setup, I have 3 linux setups and W7 on one HD, I never have probles, I know which OS has the grub control in the mbr. If I get a upgrade in a non control OS I switch it to having the grub in the mbr I update grub I remove the extra kernel if needed, then boot to the OS I want to have control and reinstall grub to the mbr from there.
[18:34] <wilee-nilee> your grub> could of been an anomaly, you description is missing a lot of understanding as well of the whole process.
[18:38] <bjsnider> the o/s with grub control is the one you keep running update-grub in
[18:39] <bjsnider> but it's run automatically every time there's a kernel upgrade in any of the linux o/s partitions, which transfers control
[18:41] <BluesKaj> thanks for the info , maybe i didn't explain my setup more clearly , I have one HDD with / and /home partitions on on it , 12.04 and 12.10 , also another HDD that's W7 , and an external drive for media , The 12.04 was the original install , and it seemed to assume grub duties for all the HDDs . I have had grub rescue before after 12.10 updates , but it always affected the 12.10 install , never the 12.04 grub .
[18:51] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, then this last update /upgrade is dangerous , because grub was definitely broken , someone should look into this
[18:56] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, I am running 12.04 and 12.10 on the same hd this did not happen to me grub is not broken.
[18:56] <BluesKaj> wilee-nilee, did you see the kernel updgrade ?
[18:56] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, yes.
[18:56] <BluesKaj> have you rebooted ?
[18:57] <wilee-nilee> yes
[18:58] <BluesKaj>  hmm, odd , anyway it broke here ..it's still an issue IMO
[18:58] <wilee-nilee> no problems, I saw the kernel upgrade I ran sudo grub-install /dev/sda giving 12.10 mthe grub control I then ran update-grub I rebboted to 12.10 removed the older kernal and ran update-grub and then booted to 12.04 anf gave it grub control again.
[18:59] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, Have you modified grub with the grub customizer, or another grub tweaking tool?
[19:00] <BluesKaj> wilee-nilee, one shouldm't have to run those commands to prevent problems after a kernel upgrade , that's the whole point
[19:01] <BluesKaj> wilee-nilee, no
[19:01] <wilee-nilee> BluesKaj, Have you modified grub with the grub customizer, or another grub tweaking tool?
[19:04] <wilee-nilee> my commands just shorten the process you have to run to get the controlling grub to read the other OSthat has had a kernel update, I like only one kernel set personally.
[19:53] <cowsquad> how is quetzal working out for you guys? thoughts?
[20:07] <zoktar> anyone else experiencing "fullscreen streches to multiple monitors" effect?
[20:10] <drc> Main Menu in Xubuntu 12.10-not-yet-beta :) doesn't appear to be functioning like that in 12.04...1) Some items that I uncheck do not get removed from the menu and when I look again they are still checked; and 2) When I try to add items (File Manager or Terminal) to the top-level xfce-menu, they are placed in Other.  Is this the way of the future or a temporary aberation?
[20:30] <jakubo> hi, is there a way to get back to old grub, as im using softwareraid, and some people seem not to give a damn about it...
[20:56] <zoktar> jakubo, i had issues with getting that working, in the end i just made it with btrfs instead
[21:03] <jakubo> zoktar: why is the FS relevant?
[21:04] <jakubo> it says that there is not enough space to embed stuff
[21:05] <jakubo> which is necessary for RAID
[21:06] <yofel> old grub is still in the archive so you can install it yourself if you need
[21:06] <yofel> should be the 'grub' package
[21:07] <patdk-wk> jakubo, all you need to do is move your partition to be at 1MB instead of at 32k on the disk
[21:07] <patdk-wk> then you will have lots of room for grub
[21:10] <jakubo> patdk-wk: is there an easy way to do it on a software raid setup?
[21:11] <patdk-wk> hmm? it's just a partition
[21:11] <patdk-wk> assuming you have enough space on the disk, to reorganize things
[21:11] <patdk-wk> it's very very easy for software raid to move it around
[21:12] <jakubo> so i can just resize the raid partitions?
[21:12] <patdk-wk> that, dunno
[21:12] <patdk-wk> move sure, resize, I dunno
[21:12] <jakubo> without losing data?
[21:13] <patdk-wk> move, yes
[21:13] <patdk-wk> what does your partition layout look like?
[21:13] <jakubo> so the first partition is to start at 1MB?
[21:14] <jakubo> well... cant tell you exactly atm, as my system is broken
[21:14] <patdk-wk> ah
[21:14] <jakubo> thats the tricky thing
[21:14] <patdk-wk> need something like sysrescd or any partition iso tool
[21:14] <jakubo> but ill just get over there and get a live system up
[21:15] <jakubo> will you be here for a soem time to aid me if necessary?
[21:15] <patdk-wk> probably not :(
[21:15] <patdk-wk> going out for dinner soon
[21:15] <patdk-wk> but I have done this thousands of times
[21:15] <patdk-wk> but  Ido understand, it can be scary if you haven't done it before
[21:16] <jakubo> but apparently you have left some space on your disks
[21:16] <patdk-wk> and also, not fun if you do make a mistake
[21:16] <patdk-wk> well, most of my disks these days are virtual
[21:16] <patdk-wk> so I just add some space :)
[21:16] <patdk-wk> or, I'll steal space from a swap partition or something
[21:17] <patdk-wk> all depends what is available
[21:17] <jakubo> that option sounds possible
[21:17] <jakubo> or does the space need to be at the beginning?
[21:18] <patdk-wk> it doesn't matter at all
[21:18] <patdk-wk> if it is, it's *easier*
[21:18] <patdk-wk> if the space is at the end
[21:18] <jakubo> so it just needs to be unpartitioned space?
[21:18] <patdk-wk> well, it will have to COPY the whole disk, and take awhile
[21:19] <patdk-wk> actually ya, you have two options
[21:19] <patdk-wk> ideally, the first 1MB of the disk should be empty
[21:19] <patdk-wk> and if possible, that would be best
[21:19] <patdk-wk> if not, you could make a small partition anywhere, and make that bootable flag
[21:19] <patdk-wk> and install grub there
[21:19] <patdk-wk> like delete swap, and create two partitions to replace it
[21:20] <patdk-wk> but moving partitions is probably going be better long term likely
[21:20] <patdk-wk> so you have the first 1mb free
[21:20] <jakubo> i just dont like the idea of having to redo an install with alternative install media, as it seems that pulse audio messed up with 4.0 sound...
[21:21] <jakubo> ... since about 12.04 and having 2 dist upgrades really isnt the thing im looking for
[21:23] <patdk-wk> ya, as long as you can free up some space somewhere, its ok
[21:23] <patdk-wk> except we can't take that space from the softraid partition
[21:23] <patdk-wk> but like swap or somethingelse disposable (likely only swap) would be ok
[21:24] <patdk-wk> or if you can copy everything off one partition to another to free it up (unlikely if your using software raid though)
[21:24] <jakubo> do you know whether it will be permanent? or is it some temporary state?
[21:24] <jakubo> i mean the 1MB requirement... and where foes it come from?
[21:26] <patdk-wk> the 1mb isn't a requirement
[21:27] <patdk-wk> it's the recommended thing since 4k sectors came out
[21:27] <patdk-wk> grub only uses approx 40 to 60k
[21:27] <patdk-wk> normally
[21:27] <patdk-wk> but the old recommendation was limited to 30k
[21:27] <patdk-wk> so 1mb is LOTS of space from this view point
[21:31] <jakubo> thx for your help. maybe one last thing
[21:31] <jakubo> i got serious issues with the touchpad
[21:32] <jakubo> any idea?
[21:41] <patdk-wk> jakubo, don't use touchpads
[21:42] <patdk-wk> well, I don't use them
[21:44] <edgy> hi, after the latest updates, my grub is lost, so I reinstalled it but every time I do update-grub I lose it again, is it only me?
[21:44] <jtaylor> not only you
[21:45] <jtaylor> do you get to large core.img error?
[21:47] <edgy> jtaylor: exactly
[21:47] <jtaylor> me too
[21:47] <edgy> jtaylor: so what can I do now?
[21:47] <jtaylor> I installed precises grub again
[21:48] <edgy> jtaylor: is there a bug issue?
[21:48] <jtaylor> didn't check yet
[21:48] <patdk-wk> sounds like another case
[21:49] <patdk-wk> check that you have 1mb free diskspace before your first partition
[21:49] <patdk-wk> your first partition should start on or after sector 2048
[21:49] <patdk-wk> grub2 can exceed the old limit, of putting the first partition at sector 63
[21:49] <jtaylor> the question is why does it need more?
[21:49] <jtaylor> its a significant regression
[21:49] <jtaylor> lots of machines start at 63
[21:50] <patdk-wk> grub2 has been claiming it needed more for a long time
[21:50] <patdk-wk> dunno what change made it require more though
[21:50] <edgy> patdk-wk:  parted -l shows: 1      32.3kB  107MB  107MB   primary   ntfs            boot, diag
[21:50] <patdk-wk> any machine installed in the last few years shouldn't be at sector 63
[21:50] <patdk-wk> ya, that 32.3kb is the issue
[21:50] <edgy> patdk-wk: which means I guess only 32 KB is there
[21:50] <patdk-wk> only grub1 should work :)
[21:50] <patdk-wk> grub2 does lots more than grub1, why it needs more
[21:51] <edgy> patdk-wk: but it was working before with grub2
[21:51] <patdk-wk> yes, I dunno what exactly changed (I haven't installed latest quantal yet)
[21:51] <patdk-wk> but I have been tracking grub for a long time
[21:51] <edgy> patdk-wk: how can I fix it now without losing my systems?
[21:51] <patdk-wk> is that really ntfs?
[21:51] <edgy> patdk-wk: yes, that was windows
[21:52] <patdk-wk> I would use a partition took, and let it resize that partition, assuming it will resize ntfs also correctly
[21:52] <patdk-wk> and free up 1mb of space
[21:52] <patdk-wk> easy fix
[21:52] <patdk-wk> lots of bootable partition iso's can do that
[21:52] <patdk-wk> I normally use payfor ones
[21:53] <patdk-wk> so dunno the free ones on the top of my head
[21:54] <edgy> patdk-wk: do you know whether gparted works?
[21:55] <zekoZeko> gparted is the shit for this stuff, should work OK, but I'd make a backup of the partition anyway if possible.
[21:55] <patdk-wk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowtoResizeWindowsPartitions
[21:55] <patdk-wk> looks like yes
[21:56] <zekoZeko> i resized & moved partitions of all kinds of windows machines with it.
[21:56] <patdk-wk> just move the start from 32k to 1MB :)
[21:56] <zekoZeko> including servers.
[21:56] <patdk-wk> ya, I haven't, as I have been using my old trusty iso for longer than gparted has been around
[21:56] <patdk-wk> so just used to it, vs gparted
[21:57] <patdk-wk> been slowly using gparted more though
[21:57] <jtaylor> I wonder how lvm deals with it when I resize the partition under it ._.
[21:57] <patdk-wk> it doesn't
[21:57] <patdk-wk> you have to adjust the ext4/xfs/...
[21:57] <patdk-wk> then resize lvm
[21:57] <jtaylor> yes
[21:57] <patdk-wk> then resize the raid
[21:57] <patdk-wk> then resize the partition
[21:57] <patdk-wk> I have done it before :)
[21:57] <patdk-wk> more than once :)
[21:57] <jtaylor> but I'm just a bit concerned that lvm might screw things up during the resize
[21:58] <patdk-wk> ya, it's always *fun*
[21:58] <patdk-wk> cause with lvm, you dunno where the free space really is
[21:58] <patdk-wk> hopefully at the end
[21:59] <wN> resize bigger or smaller?
[21:59] <patdk-wk> when using lvm though, I normally leave lots of free space, cause I assume I will use snapshots
[21:59] <zekoZeko> with LVM, i'd move al the LVs to another drive first :)
[21:59] <edgy> patdk-wk, zekoZeko: ok I did the resize and would reboot. please please sit around for five mins in case I face problems ;)
[21:59] <jtaylor> well I should try fixing the issue, previously it only prevented me from using btrfs
[21:59] <wN> i agree with zekoZeko. you can pvmove the extents off of the pv you're intending to screw up.
[21:59] <patdk-wk> :)
[21:59] <patdk-wk> ya, defently would be a lot safer
[21:59] <zekoZeko> yea
[21:59] <zekoZeko> i managed to screw myself like that once
[22:00] <patdk-wk> yep, easy to do
[22:00] <wN> reducing.volumes--
[22:00] <patdk-wk> I spend a good day or two when I do those things
[22:00] <patdk-wk> with lvm in the mix
[22:00] <patdk-wk> just checking and double checking every calculation I make
[22:00] <zekoZeko> actualy, the problem was that the old partition started at sector 63 and when i deleted it and created again, it started at 2048
[22:00] <zekoZeko> and I couldn't get my PV back :)
[22:00] <wN> so if you can map back each extent of the PV, you could technically move only the pv extents that would be affected by  the underlaying resize
[22:01] <zekoZeko> it was fun rescuing data from that drive :)
[22:01] <wN> you can do that if you check segments of each lv
[22:01] <patdk-wk> zekozeko can't be as fun as rescuring data from a 6 drive raid50 with 3 failed disks :)
[22:02] <patdk-wk> what is really sad about that is
[22:02] <patdk-wk> the server continued to run for MONTHS with 3 failed disks
[22:02] <patdk-wk> without anyone noticing, and people using that server every day
[22:03] <zekoZeko> patdk-wk, yeah, still less than rescuing it from 5 or 6 driver that were pulled from an array because of a fire
[22:03] <zekoZeko> i think it was some IBM array
[22:03] <edgy> patdk-wk: wait, shall I reboot first and then use grub-update to verify or use grub-update then reboot?
[22:03] <zekoZeko> and the vendor support said nothing can be done if we don't know the order of the drives :)
[22:03] <patdk-wk> once the partitions are moved
[22:04] <patdk-wk> you will need to reboot probably so linux sees the partition change, not sure
[22:04] <patdk-wk> and then reinstall grub
[22:04] <patdk-wk> well, reinstall grub to the bootloader
[22:04] <patdk-wk> zekoZeko, odd, figuring out the raid order of disks is normally easy
[22:04] <edgy> ok let me reboot
[22:05] <zekoZeko> edgy, if it won't boot, have a install cd handy, boot to rescue mode, mount the install, chroot and run grub-install /dev/sda
[22:05] <zekoZeko> patdk-wk, no idea, it wasn't me rescuing data, was a guy i used to work with.
[22:05] <patdk-wk> ah, I assumed he knew it wouldn't boot, as that was his issue :)
[22:06] <zekoZeko> patdk-wk, anyway, he imaged the drives (SCSI) to a big SATA drive and played a little and managed to stitch them together and rescue the data
[22:07] <zekoZeko> patdk-wk, afaik the backups were also gone in the fire :)
[22:08] <patdk-wk> ya, my case the disks had lots of read issues
[22:09] <patdk-wk> so I used ddrescue to image the disks to files
[22:09] <patdk-wk> then just played with them to get them in order
[22:09] <patdk-wk> cause I didn't know the failure order
[22:09] <zekoZeko> ok now that some people are here, let's talk ubuntu+1 :)
[22:10] <zekoZeko> i have trouble with alt+tab window switching
[22:10] <patdk-wk> I don't use gui :)
[22:10] <zekoZeko> the window i switch to sometimes loses focus
[22:10] <zekoZeko> so i have to click it, or switch to another window and back, then it has focus
[22:11]  * patdk-wk has to go :(
[22:11] <zekoZeko> bye
[22:11] <patdk-wk> edgy taking longer than 5min
[22:11] <zekoZeko> nice talking to you
[22:11] <zekoZeko> i'll wait for a few more minutes :)
[22:11] <zekoZeko> hmm
[22:12] <patdk-wk> ya, there should of been a warning/message if users didn't have 1MB free space
[22:12] <patdk-wk> atleast ubuntu since atleast lucid installs that way
[22:13] <patdk-wk> my 8.04 isn't though, if people have been updating for awhile :(
[22:13] <zekoZeko> i never thought about it, on important machines i always erase the partition table
[22:13] <zekoZeko> when installing
[22:13] <patdk-wk> ya, I always wipe on install
[22:13] <patdk-wk> but I do upgrades a lot
[22:14] <zekoZeko> yeah me too, especially my workstations.
[22:14] <patdk-wk> but people using winxp or older
[22:14] <zekoZeko> i have to say, the Q upgrade was very smooth on both machines i tried it on
[22:14] <patdk-wk> heh, my workstations always fail upgrades, always reinstall
[22:14] <patdk-wk> server normally upgrade fine
[22:14] <zekoZeko> and the system itself is in quite a good shape for being 1 month before release.
[22:14] <zekoZeko> the previous version was shite at a similar time
[22:14] <patdk-wk> ya, I need to test again, was way too busy to do the beta1 release testing
[22:15] <patdk-wk> was having iscsi issues on the alpha images
[22:16] <zekoZeko> i'll see what my home machine will say when I get the time
[22:16] <zekoZeko> i haven't been there for like 14 days or so :)
[22:16] <patdk-wk> heh
[22:16] <patdk-wk> my home machine is the only one left to upgrade to precise
[22:16] <patdk-wk> my laptops and work are precise
[22:17] <zekoZeko> but it has software raid + luks and that combo usually craps out on me on upgrades :)
[22:17] <patdk-wk> I run luks on the laptop, that was a pain to install
[22:17] <patdk-wk> basically I just install it to a dummy drive
[22:17] <patdk-wk> then move it to luks
[22:17] <edgy> patdk-wk: seems it works very well
[22:17] <patdk-wk> cause I use FDE on the laptop
[22:18] <patdk-wk> edgy, no problem :)
[22:18] <zekoZeko> haha. my laptop is an atom. with luks. imagine :)
[22:18] <patdk-wk> so is one of mine :)
[22:18] <patdk-wk> my new one is nice, aes at 380MB/sec to the ssd
[22:18] <edgy> patdk-wk: there was errors like /usr/sbin/grub-probe: warning: Couldn't find physical volume `pv0'. Some modules may be missing from core image..
[22:18] <edgy> how those affects me?
[22:18] <patdk-wk> edgy, no idea :(
[22:19] <zekoZeko> edgy, so it works now? I wouldn't worry about the errors too much.
[22:19] <patdk-wk> I haven't played enough with ubuntu grub or what they changed in it to know
[22:19] <edgy> zekoZeko: yes, it's working very well
[22:19] <zekoZeko> ok
[22:19] <zekoZeko> nite
[22:19] <edgy> patdk-wk, zekoZeko: parted made the partition like this: 1      1049kB  106MB  105MB   primary   ntfs            boot, diag
[22:20] <edgy> which is not 1M accurate but I guess that doesn't make a big difference, would this alignment affect performance in any way?
[22:20] <zekoZeko> dunno, not my area of expertise really :(
[22:22] <zekoZeko> misaligned partitions do affect performance sometimes, but I can't tell you for sure when.
[22:24] <edgy> ok thanks I would read more about it, bye for now
[22:42] <pepee> hi. sorry for asking this here, I know is off-topic, but I don't know where to ask and no one will pay attention in #ubuntu. how can I delete a post in paste.ubuntu.com ?
[23:18] <[4-tea-2]> pepee: they're probably all busy searching paste.ubuntu.com for the post you want to delete.
[23:18] <pepee> oh yeah, how funny
[23:19] <micahg> pepee: file a request by mailing rt at ubuntu dot com with the reasoning
[23:19] <micahg> pepee: PM?
[23:20] <pepee> micahg, ok
[23:22] <[4-tea-2]> pepee: if you disclosed any passwords or something like that in your post, you should consider them compromised anyway.
[23:23] <pepee> [4-tea-2], not password, but some file path in a semi-public computer that may reveal too much info :/
[23:25] <edgy> patdk-wk: I'm back. I got confused, should I leave 1M or 2M at the start?
[23:25] <edgy> patdk-wk: I am reading http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/09/make-sure-your-partitions-are-correctly-aligned-for-optimal-ssd-performance/
[23:26] <edgy> patdk-wk: and in one place it says 2M and in another it says 1M
[23:35] <zoktar> anyone have strange  fullscreen behaviour, youtube fullscreen games fullscreen, it kind of looks like it is trying to span across to my other monitor.
[23:36] <Daekdroom> edgy, it says leave 2M, then change it back to 1M
[23:37] <edgy> Daekdroom: no, I mean when he says:  If this number is divisible by 4096 (that is, if dividing it by 4096 equals a whole number and not a decimal), your partition is correctly aligned. If not, you need to realign it.
[23:40] <edgy> Daekdroom: you got my point?
[23:40] <Daekdroom> edgy, I think those 1MB need to be exact 1024KB, but I'm not sure.
[23:40] <Daekdroom> (in order for it to be correctly alligned)
[23:41] <edgy> Daekdroom: how can i check whether I did properly or not? fdisk -l shows start 2048 but parted -l shows 1049kB
[23:41] <Daekdroom> Is it a partition in the middle of the SSD?
[23:43] <edgy> Daekdroom: it's not an SSD, just the first partition in a normal disk
[23:43] <edgy> Daekdroom: is this alignment only for SSDs?
[23:43] <Daekdroom> As far as I know it doesn't affect performance in HDDs.
[23:45] <edgy> Daekdroom: that's good news but let me prepare for my next laptop. is the fdisk or parted output is correct?
[23:46] <Daekdroom> I can't say for sure, but I think Parted is not very reliable when it comes to showing space.
[23:47] <Daekdroom> It's left small unformatted spaces in my HDDs quite often.
[23:48] <edgy> Daekdroom: from  gparted it doesn't show the space in the beginning, GUI is always lacking or I am missing something obvious
[23:48] <Daekdroom> I don't know if it's meant to work that way.
[23:50] <edgy> Daekdroom: according to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Format, it seems HDD are also affected
[23:51] <Daekdroom> edgy, it looks to me it's specific to 4K-sector drives.
[23:51] <edgy> Daekdroom: ah! I don't know what's this 4K-sector drives? how can I tell whether mine is?
[23:52] <Daekdroom> edgy, sudo fdisk -s -l should tell it.
[23:53] <Daekdroom> Physical Sector Size would be it.
[23:55] <edgy> Daekdroom: you mean this line: Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
[23:55] <Daekdroom> edgy, yes.
[23:55] <edgy> Daekdroom: so it seems I have those 4k disks
[23:56] <Daekdroom> Yes.
[23:56] <joseph_CO> hi I'm from colombia but I don't speak english