[09:56] <knome> hey elfy 
[10:04] <elfy> hi knome 
[10:06] <knome> elfy, want to review a few more doc pages? :]
[10:06] <smartboyhw> lol
[10:06] <elfy> knome: I can - which ones 
[10:06] <knome> elfy, let me see
[10:07] <knome> these are not submitted by you, so these are the only ones you can still review:
[10:07] <knome> 5/Photos and Cameras
[10:07] <knome> 6/Network connections
[10:07] <knome> 6/Troubleshooting
[10:07] <knome> 7/Printing
[10:07] <knome> 7/Scanning
[10:08] <knome> and that's it
[10:08] <elfy> ok
[10:08] <knome> thanks
[10:08] <knome> i'll try to get more converted to docbook today again
[10:09] <smartboyhw> Identify yourselves guys chanserv is back
[10:09]  * knome is still identified
[10:09]  * elfy is too
[10:10] <smartboyhw> Well sure I didn't since I just joined and I can't identify when it is down mate
[10:10]  * Unit193 is as always
[10:10] <smartboyhw> lol
[10:13] <knome> i suppose i should just start working with the docs...
[10:14] <elfy> knome - just checking for englisg/grammar etc - I can't check scanning or prinitng for it working 
[10:15] <knome> elfy, yeah, that's fine, and if you can check that the app paths are correct as much as you can...
[10:15] <knome> (and menus)
[10:15] <elfy> yep :)
[10:15] <elfy> ok - back in a bit then :p
[10:15] <knome> thanks!
[10:15]  * knome goes converting another subsection to docbook
[10:20] <elfy> knome: you want to know in here which I have checked or on the pad? if the pad - what's the link again :p
[10:20] <knome> here is fine at this stahge :
[10:20] <knome> stage and :P too
[10:21] <elfy> scanning is done
[10:21] <smartboyhw> elfy: You mean http://typewith.me/p/x-q-docs-checkout ?
[10:45] <elfy> knome: printing done, troubleshooting done - but if network connections is "network connections" then troubleshooting should be "network troubleshooting" logically
[10:46] <knome> ok, thanks
[10:46] <knome> i'll fix that for the docs
[10:46] <elfy> k
[10:53] <elfy> knome: network connections done
[10:54] <knome> ta
[11:02] <elfy> knome: I've removed the image viewer bits that jackFromm temp struck out and that is all checked now too 
[11:06] <knome> in what? :)
[11:06] <knome> photos/cams?
[11:07] <elfy> yea sorry - thought it would make sense as it was last one you asked me to check :)
[11:07] <knome> hehe, yeah
[11:07] <knome> ta
[11:08] <elfy> should be just quick guide and upgrading left in Table of Contents not bold I think
[11:08] <knome> yep
[11:08] <knome> and not much that isn't underlined ;)
[11:09] <elfy> underlined is ? converting to docbooks? 
[11:09] <knome> underlined is converted
[11:09] <knome> isap
[11:09] <knome> heh
[11:09] <elfy> cool
[11:09] <knome> there goes my test-vbox pass :P
[11:10] <elfy> lol
[11:19] <elfy> so anything you want me to look at today knome ? 
[11:19] <knome> umm.. not really after you done those reviews, unless you want to go adventurous and build the docs :D
[11:20] <elfy> ... 
[11:20] <elfy> not sure :p
[11:21] <knome> yeah, you really don't need to
[11:21] <elfy> ok lol 
[11:21] <elfy> I'll go hae lunch instead then :)
[11:22] <knome> ok, bon appetit :)
[11:44] <knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
[11:44] <jjfrv8> G'day.
[11:45] <jjfrv8> knome, Looks like you're almost there :)
[11:46] <knome> yeah, almost
[11:52] <knome> hey bluesabre :)
[11:52] <bluesabre> hiya knome!
[11:53] <elfy> hi bluesabre 
[11:53] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[11:53] <bluesabre> how is everyone today?
[11:53] <knome> good
[11:53] <elfy> ok now thanks 
[11:53] <knome> working on the docbook conversions again
[11:55] <bluesabre> making good progress?
[11:55] <knome> quite
[11:55] <knome> check the wiki
[11:56] <elfy> knome: you not want upgrading and quick guide checked - or have they been done already
[11:56] <knome> elfy, you've submitted them for review, so you can't review them ;)
[11:56] <knome> bluesabre could...
[11:56] <bluesabre> wowza
[11:56] <Unit193> I took a look at upgrading one.
[11:56] <elfy> aah - /me forgets stuff fairly quickly 
[11:56] <Unit193> +the
[11:56] <bluesabre> looks like we're almost there
[11:56] <knome> bluesabre, exactly
[11:57] <knome> Unit193, do you think it's ready to be published, or do you want somebody to still review it?
[11:57] <bluesabre> I can have a look at quick guide
[11:57] <knome> bluesabre, we should move the stuff in quick guide around
[11:57] <knome> see how the internet -section is organized
[11:57] <knome> i mean, inside the guide
[11:58] <Unit193> knome: I think it was pretty much set, just made a couple changes.
[11:58] <knome> Unit193, ok, i'll mark it as checked-out hten
[11:58] <knome> then
[11:58] <Unit193> Wouldn't hurt I'm sure, having another look. :P
[11:59] <knome> well, all the pages are not going to be perfect anyway
[11:59] <knome> so we'll probably get bugs, and we can fix them for Q or R
[12:02] <elfy> that'll be a whole lot easier 
[12:02] <knome> definitely
[12:03] <bluesabre> knome, as far as moving things around, what are you shooting for with the other sections in the quick guide?
[12:03] <knome> i mean, the first word should be the application bolded
[12:04] <knome> and the link should be at the end
[12:04] <knome> feel free to disagree :)
[12:04] <bluesabre> ok, I thought that was what you meant.  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything
[12:04] <knome> heh, sure
[12:05] <Unit193> elfy: If you wanted to look at the diff, and see if I changed something in error? :P
[12:05] <elfy> there are 2 links in that page that go to empty pages - media applications adnd libreoffice
[12:06] <elfy> Unit193: if it's needed 
[12:06] <knome> elfy, yeah, you can dismiss that
[12:06] <elfy> dismiss or remove ?
[12:06] <knome> LO is because the wiki markup (CamelCase creates links)
[12:06] <knome> and media apps is fixed in docs
[12:06] <knome> so just dismiss, it will be okay
[12:07] <elfy> I thought bluesabre was looking anyway - so I was just saying :)
[12:07] <knome> np
[12:07] <knome> good to make sure
[12:08] <elfy> :)
[12:08] <bluesabre> so that means you're not currently editing, right elfy?
[12:08] <elfy> yep
[12:08] <bluesabre> Cool, thanks
[12:08] <elfy> not editing anything at all 
[12:12] <knome> so update manager is "software updater" in Q?
[12:12] <knome> i need to fix that
[12:22] <knome> done
[12:23] <knome> ok, all but 4 subsections converted
[12:26]  * bluesabre wonders if we really need to link to the core xfce/gnome apps websites
[12:26] <knome> maybe not
[12:30] <bluesabre> Done.  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Quick guide to default applications
[12:30] <bluesabre> But yeah, who is honestly going to click the link for
[12:31] <bluesabre> PulseAudio, Dictionary, Evince, Orage, Gigolo, Task Manager
[12:31] <bluesabre> PulseAudio, maybe
[12:31] <knome> bluesabre, feel free to drop links you don't think are necessary
[12:32] <knome> and i don't even know if we should specifically list task manager :P
[12:32] <knome> (unless we tell what it does, for starters)
[12:32] <elfy> does not the name give it away 
[12:33] <knome> kind of
[12:33] <knome> but doesn't every OS have one?
[12:33] <elfy> I'd have to assume so 
[12:35] <bluesabre> I'd imagine that if a user doesn't know what it is, it's probably better for them to not know about the Task Manager
[12:36]  * smartboyhw will click Orage and PulseAudio if I'm a beginner...
[12:36] <bluesabre> Yeah, I opted to not remove links
[12:46] <bluesabre> knome, elfy, others?  Wanna review the changes?
[12:46]  * elfy can look
[12:48] <elfy> looks ok to me 
[12:48] <knome> looks fine to me
[12:49] <elfy> though I wonder at the inclusion of Ibus - it's not to my knowledge mentioned anywhere else 
[12:52] <knome> so isn't task manager ;]
[12:52] <elfy> :)
[12:52] <bluesabre> yeah, not sure about that one, but people might be curious as to what it is (now that I read that section, I finally know what its for)
[12:54] <elfy> and actually don't you have to install pavu? 
[12:55] <elfy> now I come to think about it
[12:57] <bluesabre> I have no idea
[12:58] <elfy> not in xubuntu-desktop so I assume not
[12:59] <elfy> but anyway - as it stands - it looks ok :)
[13:32] <knome> take that, docbook
[13:33] <knome> only one section left to convert
[13:33] <bluesabre> booyah
[13:34]  * smartboyhw adds oil on knome
[13:34] <smartboyhw> add oil = give support:)
[16:24] <olbi> hello
[16:24] <olbi> who is responsible for translating slides during installation of Xubuntu 12.10? :)
[16:54] <knome> olbi, the community
[17:01] <SkippersBoss> knome, i send something through the e-mail list
[17:02] <SkippersBoss> I was told i was blocked. Did you see it ??
[17:02] <knome> SkippersBoss, i believe it's simply in the queue
[17:02] <knome> SkippersBoss, have you subscribed to the list?
[17:03] <SkippersBoss> thought i did
[17:04] <SkippersBoss> its was my reactions towards the wish to scrap all outside references in the quick guide
[17:04] <SkippersBoss> :-)
[17:04] <SkippersBoss> sorry smiley went ino wrong window
[17:05] <knome> oh well
[17:05] <knome> it's converted to docbook now :)
[17:06] <SkippersBoss> never mind then
[17:06] <SkippersBoss> Your the boss
[17:06] <SkippersBoss> I follow your lead here
[17:06] <knome> i think it's good to point to external stuff, especially if they offer more user support than our docs
[17:07] <SkippersBoss> That was my rationelle. Don't do double work
[17:08] <pleia2> knome: yay!
[17:08] <SkippersBoss> a ms ghana
[17:08] <SkippersBoss> when are you leaving
[17:09] <pleia2> october 10th
[17:09] <olbi> when will be updated Daily Builds LiveCD whith newest transaltions?
[17:11] <knome> pleia2, :)
[17:12] <knome> pleia2, now can you ask rocket2dmn to help us get the rest of the stuff done..
[17:12] <micahg> olbi: only if there are new upstream versions
[17:12] <pleia2> knome: if you put in a MP and send a mail to the -doc list, I can follow up on the thread I was talking to him on
[17:13] <knome> MP?
[17:13] <knome> oh, merge proposal
[17:13] <pleia2> yeah
[17:13] <knome> before doing that, i'd actually want somebody to look at our branch
[17:13] <pleia2> ok
[17:15] <pleia2> actually, I think you really should just put in the MP
[17:15] <knome> lol
[17:15] <knome> i'll look at that when i'm on my desktop
[17:15] <pleia2> it should auto-ping the people who may want to look at it, so they can just sit down, review, approve
[17:16] <pleia2> instead of sit down, review, email you back to do the MP, forget where they left off, review 2 days later...
[17:16] <knome> lol
[17:16] <elfy> :)
[17:17] <olbi> :]
[17:18] <olbi> what is the adress of document where I could test daily builds and types results?
[17:18] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[17:18] <elfy> that one olbi ?
[17:19] <pleia2> disabled creation of new accounts on the wiki, now to do some cleanup
[17:20] <olbi> I mean same document in google docs which was with Xubuntu 11.10 :)
[17:21] <knome> have i done it wrong, or why don't i have a merge proposal button in my branch overview
[17:22] <pleia2> hmm
[17:23] <pleia2> the link should say "Propose for merging"
[17:23] <knome> yeah, no such link
[17:23] <pleia2> how did you check it out initially, bzr branch?
[17:24] <knome> i believe so yeah
[17:27] <pleia2> ok, I'll just send an email now and ask for some guidance
[17:27] <knome> ta
[17:28] <pleia2> you're on the list right, no need to Cc:?
[17:28] <knome> ubuntu-doc?
[17:28] <knome> i'm not
[17:28] <pleia2> ok, I shall cc
[17:28] <knome> i hate docs >:)
[17:29] <pleia2> ok, sent
[17:29] <pleia2> haha
[17:34] <knome> oh oh!
[17:34] <knome> i think i solved it
[17:35] <pleia2> oh good
[17:35] <knome> hmm, no
[17:35] <knome> meh
[17:35] <pleia2> hehe
[17:35] <knome> head hurts
[17:35] <pleia2> aw
[17:35] <Unit193> Less whiskey.
[17:42] <knome> ok, i think i fixed it
[17:43] <knome> no?
[17:43] <knome> "not mergeable"
[17:44] <pleia2> hrm
[17:44] <pleia2> maybe it has something to do with /quantal not existing as an active branch
[17:44] <pleia2> I guess we'll just wait for help
[17:49] <knome> oh my!
[17:49] <knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/new-docs/+merge/124580
[17:50] <pleia2> huh
[17:53] <knome> meh. :)
[17:53] <knome> so at least it's done now
[18:06] <knome> pleia2, do you want to update them? that branch you linked to doesn't exist anymore
[18:07] <pleia2> ok
[18:07] <knome> thanks
[19:47] <pleia2> oh good connor replied
[19:49] <knome> mmhmm
[19:50] <knome> i shall look...
[19:51] <knome> aha
[20:28] <knome> pleia2, you still there?
[20:36] <knome> hey Book_em_Dano 
[20:37] <Book_em_Dano> hey
[20:37] <knome> so, what do you know about documentation building? :P
[21:04] <Rocket2DMn> knome, this is Connor
[21:05] <knome> hey Rocket2DMn! :)
[21:05] <knome> so, i've pushed the changes to the branch
[21:05] <knome> all the validation errors looks like gone now
[21:07] <Rocket2DMn> alright, give me a minute
[21:07] <knome> sure
[21:08] <Rocket2DMn> did you update pot files?
[21:09] <knome> mm, i'm not completely sure - possibly
[21:09] <knome> i can do that if that's the only missing thing
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> no, you're not really supposed to touch them
[21:09] <knome> doing 'make' still gives some warnings as i wrote in the mail
[21:09] <knome> aha
[21:09] <knome> ok, so why does make create them? :P
[21:10] <knome> (there isn't even a make target that doesn't create them, but rebuilds the html and css)
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> i dont know very much about translations, not sure how they are supposed to get updated in our source, if at all.  translations are done through lp
[21:10] <knome> mm-hmm
[21:10] <knome> yeah, i was wondering how they work too
[21:10] <knome> but i can remove the .pots from the final version before MP
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> hmm im not really the person to answer questions about the pot files, i never touch them
[21:12] <knome> ok... :)
[21:12] <knome> do you know who is?
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> ive never actually worked with the xubuntu docs, mostly just the main ubuntu-docs and the serverguide
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> mdke (Matthew East) is in charge of the docs team, he would probably know how they are handled.
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> He's the guy we need to update the branches too
[21:13] <knome> ubuntu-docs at least used to use the same stuff than xubuntu
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> yeah it used to be in docbook, now its in mallard.  the proiject setup looks very similar to the older ubuntu-docs setup
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> the serverguide still uses docbook
[21:14] <knome> yeah, it was really similar, but i've cleaned up a bit
[21:14] <Rocket2DMn> we still have the problem of merging it back into our development branch
[21:14] <knome> well, i noticed there were some problems earlier
[21:14] <Rocket2DMn> you branched from lp:ubuntu/xubuntu docs rather than lp:xubuntu-docs right?
[21:15] <knome> i didn't even get a "merge proposal" link
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> from what i gather, the latter just updates from the former whenever we do a release
[21:15] <knome> but i simply pushed to different location, and now it allowed me to propose the merge
[21:15] <knome> i can't remember which one i originall branched tbh, it's quite a lot of time
[21:15] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: hey, thank you!
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> pleia2, long time no see.  you're welcome
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> knome, i assume you deleted files as part of this process?
[21:17] <knome> Rocket2DMn, yeah, quite a lot actually
[21:18] <knome> Rocket2DMn, i was wondering if i deleted something we needed, but i don't think so
[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> im just trying to figure out the best way to get your changes merged, give me a few minutes to play around
[21:20] <knome> sure, and please tell me if i can help in any way
[21:30] <Rocket2DMn> knome, how familiar are you with bzr?
[21:31] <knome> mediocre
[21:32] <Rocket2DMn> hmm
[21:33] <Rocket2DMn> i'm trying to decide if i should do this in one commit or two.  since we're gonna blow everything away that's currently there, it might be safer to delete everything first, commit, then merge
[21:33] <Rocket2DMn> since these branches don't have a common ancestor, i get conflicts everywhere when i merge, which is expected, i'm just not entirely sure i am resolving them properly
[21:34] <knome> deleting first sounds okay to me
[21:34] <knome> we don't want to migrate anything from the old branch anyway
[21:34] <knome> (and we'll always have the history)
[21:34] <Rocket2DMn> it might be better to have mdke just create a new lp:xubuntu-docs branch from scratch
[21:34] <Rocket2DMn> then we can dump everything there with a clean history
[21:34] <knome> everything goes for me, as long as we can do this before docfreeze and beta2freeze
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> i can commit what i have, but i'm going to email Matthew to see how he wants to do it.  i'd suggest a branch new branch since we're basically starting over
[21:36] <knome> sure
[21:36] <knome> and again, if you need anything from me...
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> knome, i sent an email to Matthew.  You can find him in #ubuntu-doc but he is away most of the time
[21:51] <knome> thanks, i'll join
[21:51] <Rocket2DMn> if you idle on IRC, you can probably send him a message and wait.  He lives in Europe I think, so it may be difficult to get ahold of him in the late afternoon/evening
[21:51] <knome> huh, idle 60 days
[21:51] <knome> i live in EU too. :)
[21:51] <Rocket2DMn> 60 days, nice
[21:51] <Rocket2DMn> ah ok, then you may have better luck getting ahold of him than i usually do
[21:52] <knome> mmh, maybe, if he isn't planning to be idle the next 60 days too ;)
[21:55] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well i'll idle on IRC for awhile, but i am stepping afk, i'll check back periodically
[21:56] <knome> ok, have fun and thanks!
[22:13] <knome> Rocket2DMn, just updated the branch; removed the .pots and did some more cleanup
[22:24] <ochosi> hi everyone
[22:31] <Book_em_Dano> knome, I have a question about the images that are supposed to appear inline on the docs, this may not be a high priority topic given what you are trying to accomplish as of yet
[22:32] <knome> Book_em_Dano, yes?
[22:32] <Book_em_Dano> the images are not appearing, what are you using to render the xml files
[22:32] <knome> gedit :P
[22:33] <knome> i wonder if the latest "fixes" broke them then
[22:34] <knome> Book_em_Dano, i can see them.
[22:34] <knome> Book_em_Dano, are you building the docs in a different way or sth?
[22:35] <Book_em_Dano> I've been using yelp to render the source code
[22:35] <knome> aha, i don't know about yelp. i've been building the docs with the Makefile
[22:35] <knome> (just run make in the root, and look at "build")
[22:35] <Book_em_Dano> once the package is built, you are using the html files
[22:35] <knome> yes
[22:36] <knome> those html files do show me the images
[22:41] <ochosi> knome: what viewer are we using for our docs atm? (haven't bothered to use them in a looong time)
[22:41] <knome> ochosi, for the offline docs? $default_browser
[22:42] <ochosi> so ff in our default case
[22:42] <knome> yes
[22:42] <ochosi> mmhm
[22:42]  * ochosi wonders whether there'd be a better solution for that
[22:42] <knome> what do you mean?
[22:42] <ochosi> dunno, a slimmer browser
[22:42] <knome> a better browser, or a better way to work with the docs?
[22:42] <ochosi> i mean yelp is dedicated to docs
[22:43] <knome> mm-hmm
[22:43] <ochosi> but otoh it's not very slim
[22:43] <knome> midori :P
[22:43] <knome> i don't really know if we need yet another browser
[22:43] <knome> ff works fine
[22:43] <ochosi> either that, or a tiny gtk-html implementation
[22:43] <knome> ok, it's slow, but so what?
[22:43] <knome> you're not going to need to refer to the docs all the time
[22:43] <knome> they aren't even so extensive you could
[22:44] <ochosi> yeah, but still, imo it's always nice to have an efficient solution for one usecase
[22:44] <knome> kind of, but in a way it again feels a bit unnecessary, since we already have FF for browsing and viewing html files
[22:45] <knome> if we want to be lighter, let's switch firefox
[22:46] <knome> why does amazon "recommend" me something that is on my wishlist?
[22:46] <ochosi> heh
[22:46] <ochosi> yeah, tbh switching ff would work for me
[22:46] <ochosi> at least if we also switch to a different mailclient
[22:47] <knome> heh
[22:47] <knome> i'm still fine with that if people do thorough comparison reports
[22:48] <micahg> FWIW, dropping yelp would be great as it would drop some more unneeded GNOME stuff
[22:48] <micahg> (including gnome-user-docs)
[22:49] <ochosi> +1 as our docs don't use yelp that'd be great
[22:49] <knome> yeah, but something does use yelp, right?
[22:49] <ochosi> gnome apps use yelp for their docs
[22:49] <knome> yeah
[22:50] <knome> would it suck if gnome apps didn't have help?
[22:50] <knome> well, kind of, if they aren't pulling yelp in at all..
[22:51] <ochosi> haven't looked, but it'd be at least evince, simplescan...
[22:52] <ochosi> an alternative would be to also use yelp for our docs
[22:52] <knome> :F
[22:53]  * ochosi sees potential up and downsides there
[23:01] <ochosi> it'd prolly be worth to talk to folks like j1mc bout that
[23:02] <knome> yeah, and i think it might have been worth thinking if we want to step away from docbook too
[23:02] <knome> (the answer is now: you are free to do it, but i'm not helping :P)
[23:02] <knome> but might've been different 6 months ago
[23:03] <ochosi> yeah i can see why now is a bad time to talk about that
[23:04] <knome> now, or even for S
[23:04] <knome> i don't see any reason why we'd migrate away, since docbook, once converted, does not need a specialized application to browse
[23:05] <knome> and our situation now is quite good, the docs should be pretty up-to-date and all
[23:06] <ochosi> yup
[23:11] <ochosi> updating my quantal testbox now to see what awaits us in b2
[23:33] <knome> :)
[23:34] <ochosi> strange, somehow greybird's xfwm4 didn't get installed...
[23:34] <knome> hmm? :)
[23:35] <ochosi> reinstalling the pkgs now
[23:36] <knome> heh, monday's first mail
[23:36] <knome> not to us, but neighbours