[05:34] <alveo3> Hey guys. I have unchecked ¨Spin down hard disk¨ in the power manager, but it still spins down every 10 seconds or so, please help :)
[05:36] <apm1> alveo3, well how can you tell if your HD is actually spinning down ?
[05:36] <alveo3> I can hear it, the system freezes?
[05:37] <apm1> alveo3, running xubuntu i presume and what laptop is it ?
[05:40] <apm1> ?
[05:40] <alveo3> I think I`ve got it, thanks
[05:40] <apm1> ok , mhm
[05:40] <Artemis3> alveo3, which drive is this?
[05:41] <alveo3> Model or what?
[05:41] <Artemis3> yeah
[05:41] <alveo3> Some WD stuff
[05:41] <Artemis3> hmmm
[05:41] <apm1> alveo3, how exactly did you solve it , enlighten us :)
[05:41] <Artemis3> some "green" wd stuff?
[05:41] <apm1> green?
[05:42] <alveo3> How can I tell if it`s green?
[05:42] <apm1> ^i have seen HD motion protectors coloured green on thinkpads
[05:42] <alveo3> hdparm -Ii /dev/sda
[05:42] <Artemis3> model could do as well :)
[05:42] <Artemis3> its an actual line of models
[05:42] <alveo3>  WDC WD3200BEVT
[05:42] <apm1> oh so green is a modle name :D
[05:43] <Artemis3> and the sticker on the drive itself has some green :)
[05:43] <Artemis3> model line actually
[05:43]  * apm1 facepalms
[05:43] <Artemis3> well thats a blue one
[05:43] <Artemis3> should not go to sleep on its own, unless it was configured to :)
[05:44] <apm1> alveo3, how did you solve your problem , please enlighten us :)
[05:44] <alveo3> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6893114.html
[05:44] <alveo3> I think I can handle it.
[05:44] <alveo3> Using hdparm does not work
[05:44] <alveo3> Something it`v overwriting it
[05:45] <Artemis3> there are 2 other places where you can configure that, bios and firmware
[05:45] <Artemis3> i doubt you have changed the firmware, how is the bios?
[05:45] <apm1> firmware how do you access the firmware settings ?
[05:46] <apm1> firmware as in EFI ?
[05:46] <Artemis3> see? that threads talks about the greens, i have experience with those as well :)
[05:46] <Artemis3> no, drive's firmware
[05:46] <Artemis3> but if it's not a green drive, you probably shouldn't care
[05:47] <Artemis3> also if you used laptop tools or something
[05:47] <Artemis3> (software settings outside gui)
[05:47] <Artemis3> which drive is yours apm1 ?
[05:47] <apm1> tweaking firmware on anything can be disastrous :(
[05:48] <Artemis3> in this case, its a must, only if you have a green drive
[05:48] <apm1> Artemis3, i have a WD myself but i am not aware of it's a alien green or blue :D
[05:48] <Artemis3> model
[05:49] <apm1> how do i find out , it's a 320GB though
[05:49] <Artemis3> you too? are you alveo3? im confused
[05:49] <apm1> nope
[05:50] <apm1> Artemis3, look , i didn't ask for help on anything , hell i don't ever care what kinda colour my drive has :D
[05:51] <apm1> Artemis3, but since you have risen my curiosity how do i find out what HD modle it is ? :D
[05:51] <apm1> *rose
[05:52] <Artemis3> sudo lshw -C disk
[05:53] <apm1> it says PCI (sysfs) ?
[05:53] <Artemis3> greens are usually 500ish or more
[05:53] <Artemis3> yes it takes a little
[05:53] <alveo3> so
[05:53] <apm1> Artemis3, takes a little what ? time
[05:54] <alveo3> Did some tweaks, I`ll see if it works.
[05:54] <Artemis3> yes
[05:54] <alveo3> Is mine GREEN or not?
[05:54] <Artemis3> no
[05:54] <Artemis3> its blue
[05:54] <Artemis3> :P
[05:54] <apm1> why does WD take the pains to colour code stupid HD s :D
[05:55] <Artemis3> ask them, seagate also made a green line...
[05:55] <apm1> Artemis3, WDC WD3200BEVT
[05:55] <Artemis3> so you are sure you are not alveo3 ...
[05:55] <Artemis3> because the answer is identical
[05:56] <alveo3> lol
[05:56] <alveo3> What do you mean?
[05:56] <alveo3> I don`t need the tweaks or what?
[05:56] <Artemis3> no
[05:56] <Artemis3> just software or bios settings
[05:56] <alveo3> that`s what I did :)
[05:56] <apm1> holy piece of crap we both have the same HD :D
[05:56] <alveo3> The bios is limited
[05:57] <alveo3> brb
[05:57] <alveo3> rebootin g
[05:57] <apm1> Artemis3, i now understand why you are confused :D
[05:59] <apm1> Artemis3, i assure you i am not alveo3 :D
[06:00] <Artemis3> ok
[06:00] <alveo3> Hmm, That worked fine
[06:00] <apm1> Artemis3, but this has to be a damn coincidence for alveo3 and me to own the same damn kind of drive :D
[06:01] <Artemis3> could happen i guess...
[06:01] <alveo3> apm1, do we have the same model?
[06:01]  * apm1 shakes alveo3 s hand for owning the exact same model as him :D
[06:02] <apm1> alveo3, what laptop is your's fitted in ?
[06:02] <alveo3> :)
[06:02] <alveo3> You first?
[06:02] <apm1> thinkpad x120e
[06:02] <alveo3> AMD APU?
[06:03] <apm1> yup e350
[06:03] <alveo3> HP 635
[06:03] <Artemis3> take a look and be proud: http://images.tecchannel.de/images/tecchannel/bdb/365706/890.jpg
[06:03] <alveo3> hmm, apm1, does your screen brightness reset as well?
[06:03] <Artemis3> (or something)
[06:05] <apm1> alveo3, yes but only when i am on battery not on AC power plugged in
[06:05] <alveo3> Running XFCE I guess?
[06:05] <alveo3> With fglrx or OSS?
[06:05] <apm1> yup xubuntu so yes xfce power manager
[06:05] <apm1> fglrx
[06:05] <alveo3> hmm
[06:05] <alveo3> Mine always resets after reboot.
[06:06] <alveo3> Did you do tweaks?
[06:06] <apm1> alveo3, resets as in ?
[06:06] <apm1> what resets
[06:06] <alveo3> Maxes out
[06:06] <apm1> brightness yeah that is supposed to happen even on my mac that happens
[06:06] <alveo3> Well, on windows doesn't :)
[06:07] <alveo3> It sucks mate, I have to set it each time I boot
[06:07] <alveo3> I want it to the minimum
[06:07] <apm1> alveo3, how dare you mention windows :D
[06:07] <alveo3> :))
[06:07] <alveo3> apm1, can you control your volume using the volume keys on xfce?
[06:07] <alveo3> installed xfce4-volumed, does not work
[06:08] <apm1> alveo3, i never pursed the screen brightness settings as i always feel comfortable with the max
[06:08] <alveo3> the max kills me
[06:09] <apm1> alveo3, actually earlier volume keys worked but after installing rhytmbox they don't work , although the volume applett shows up and adjusts but nothing happens unless i actually drag the gui slider in the top pannell
[06:10] <alveo3> what applet are you using?
[06:10] <apm1> alveo3, i can't work on anything but mac brightness :)
[06:10] <apm1> *max
[06:10] <apm1> alveo3, the stock xubuntu notification appletts
[06:12] <alveo3> they didn't show up on my installation by default
[06:12] <apm1> alveo3, so you don't get any notification bubbless on the top right of the screen just below the panell ?
[06:13] <alveo3> nothing.
[06:13] <apm1> alveo3, try exorcizing your laptop i think it's possessed :D
[06:13] <alveo3> I've added 'mixer' applet, it still doesn't work
[06:13] <alveo3> :))
[06:14] <apm1> wtf , i have 15min battery left
[06:14]  * apm1 is too lazy to connect the power cord
[06:14] <Artemis3> in xubuntu volume should work without adding anything, unless your keys are not recognized, doubt installing things will fix that
[06:15] <Artemis3> perhaps a search for ubuntu + laptop model would help
[06:15] <apm1> Artemis3, but my keys are recognized why else would the applett work ?
[06:16] <Artemis3> you did say they worked but installed something and now doesn't?
[06:16] <Artemis3> perhaps an evil gnome app?
[06:16] <alveo3> artemis3, does xubuntu come with volumed?
[06:16] <apm1> Artemis3, rhytumbox ever heard of it ?
[06:16] <Artemis3> have not checked, but you can control the volume without adding anything with a default install
[06:17] <apm1> Artemis3, exactly until you screw yourself by installing rhythmbox :D
[06:17] <Artemis3> ah yes, that evil gnome player :) you sure the volume is not affected elsewhere? in parole or something?
[06:17]  * apm1 removes rhthmbox :D
[06:17] <Artemis3> lol
[06:19] <Artemis3> could be the keys are controlling the volume of the wrong thing, but whatever
[06:19] <Artemis3> pulseaudio also allows separate volumes for each app
[06:19] <apm1> hmm , maybe
[06:19] <Artemis3> maybe pavucontrol? would show
[06:20]  * apm1 types alsamixer in terminal
[06:20] <apm1> brb i gotta connect to power
[06:23] <apm1> hmm " you never realize how great it feels unless you are so close to a power source " tron from the movie tron :D
[06:24] <apm1> Artemis3, nah nothing helpful in pavucontrol :(
[06:27]  * apm1 realizes nobody in #xubutu remembers tron :(
[06:27] <apm1> ^sorry off topic
[06:34] <Artemis3> i remember tron, i'm not glued to irc :)
[06:35] <apm1> Artemis3, sorry , i never meant to offend you :(
[06:37] <apm1> ^oh all is well i missed the smiley :D
[07:39] <akis> does anyone know where thunderbird mail store the mail adress history?
[09:26] <doomgiver> hello
[09:27] <Deutopia> hi
[09:28] <doomgiver> so, i wanted to know, how do i build .deb files from a *.tar.gz package?
[09:34] <Deutopia> tar2deb
[09:35] <mips1911> why do you wanna use a tar.gz file in the first place?
[09:35] <doomgiver> Deutopia: ok, thanks for that, but i cant do that.
[09:35] <doomgiver> here is the deal :
[09:35] <doomgiver> im trying to install some tools on a machine which has NO INTERNET access.
[09:36] <doomgiver> so im manually downloading and instaling the tools.
[09:36] <doomgiver> i get the tar,gz files and install them via ./configere, make\
[09:36] <mips1911> Erm, have you looked at Kerryx?
[09:37] <Unit193> !offline
[09:37] <mips1911> http://keryxproject.org/
[09:38] <Unit193> There is also apt-offline.
[09:38] <mips1911> keryx runs on winddows & linux and it will downlaod all your pacakes & dependencies for you
[09:39] <mips1911> packages & dependencies
[09:39] <doomgiver> ok, cool
[09:39] <doomgiver> i'll check that
[09:40] <doomgiver> and im sorry for all those horrible typos in the 3rd line above, i was typing in a hurry
[09:41] <doomgiver> mips1911: so, keryx will have to be installed in both the machines? target+source?
[09:44] <mips1911> doomgiver: I have not used it but there is a portable version of the app so it does not need to be installed. It's simply dumps the files to a folder which can be on a USB stick which you then simply copy over to the /var/cache/apt folder on the target machine
[09:44] <mips1911> Either way you only need it on the machine that will be downloading the files.
[09:46] <doomgiver> ok, goody!
[10:02] <doomgiver> keryx needs python "2.6" and pygtk.
[10:03] <doomgiver> i have python 2.7.... why didnt i do 2.6 in the first place?
[10:05] <doomgiver> this is so darn tedious
[10:05] <doomgiver> it'll take 30 minutes to download.
[10:05] <doomgiver> well, off to lunch
[11:22] <doomgiver> ubottu: when i use the synaptic download package script, do i have to do it in another linux, or i can use it with a windows machine with mingw installed?
[11:22] <doomgiver> crap
[11:24] <Sysi> I'm not sure if you can install synaptic on windows
[11:25] <doomgiver> i dont want to install
[11:26] <doomgiver> i just want to run a script (made by synaptic) on a windows machine (hopefully) that will download the required packages
[11:26] <doomgiver> sometimes, you guys think of network access as granted
[11:27] <doomgiver> i really hate that
[11:27] <Mathias> if i need network access at a comp without any other ways i use a mobile broadband :P
[11:28] <doomgiver> here i am, surfing at the BLAZING speed of 155 kbps, and the shitty modem wont work on linux. well, fuck that, im gonna circumvent that SOB and download and install the packages by hand, like ol' linus torvalds did
[11:28] <Mathias> 40 kbyte/s here :P
[11:29] <doomgiver> nice!
[11:29] <Tm_T> anything above 5kbps is well enough (;
[11:29] <doomgiver> ok, brb
[11:30] <Mathias> Tm_T: in about 10 hours i'll have 2 kbyte/s :s
[11:30] <Sysi> doomgiver: what kind of moden do you have?
[12:10] <Kingsy> been meaning to ask about this for a while, one day a while back the speaker icon vanished from my notifaction area. I added the pulse audio mixer manually.. but its not as good.. anyone know what happened?
[12:21] <jeffrey> anyone there?
[12:21] <jeffABCD> hello?
[12:22] <Mathias> hi
[12:22] <jeffABCD> ah someone!:P
[12:23] <jeffABCD> is there any GOOD documentation how to install rtl8188cus wireless adapter?
[12:23] <jeffABCD> its hell!
[14:02] <xuserr> hello
[14:05] <xuserr> hi
[14:10] <xuserr> does anyone know a n64 emulator for xubuntu? like project 64 for windows
[14:10] <xuserr> ?
[14:28] <Makdaam> hi, something keeps reseting my xkb options (compose->caps lock to be exact) I don't know where to look
[15:28] <pcroque> Makdaam: Where are you setting the compose key?
[15:32] <pcroque> Makdaam: Try
[15:33] <pcroque> setting the keyboard layout to 'Use System Defaults' in xfce4-keyboard-settings. Then add the keyboard indicator to the panel and setup everything from there.
[15:40] <asenk> hey, i cant seem to enable touchpad on my laptop after disabling it.
[15:41] <Makdaam> pcroque: I've got "Use system defaults" marked :S
[15:43] <pcroque> Makdaam: I think you're not the only one with this problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-xkb-plugin/+bug/548631
[15:44] <pcroque> Makdaam: Maybe this will help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/66096/how-to-set-up-xfce4-xkb-plugin-to-remember-settings-over-reboots
[15:45] <asenk> any guesses whats causing this? xubuntu12.04. Basically what i did: touchpad works -> connect mouse -> disable touchpad through settings-manager -> enable from the same place -> doesnt work
[15:49] <Makdaam> pcroque: I found that before and removed xfce4-xkb-plugin so it would stop resetting everything
[15:49] <Makdaam> pcroque: still doesn't work
[15:50] <pcroque> Makdaam: I went through the same thing yesterday...check the box...remove the plugin...uncheck the box...install the plugin.
[15:51] <pcroque> Seems to be working today...but...you never know about tomorrow.
[15:51] <gula>  
[16:34] <Makdaam> pcroque: doesn't work :/
[16:34] <Makdaam> pcroque: I'm removing xfce4-xkb-plugin, xxkb etc.
[16:34] <Makdaam> pcroque: we'll se what happens
[16:42] <Makdaam> pcroque: can't make it work any way I try, probably going to switch to Arch or something with less automation on next reinstall
[16:42] <pcroque> Makdaam: Too bad. Seems like there are two many layers all trying to set the keyboard options.
[16:42] <pcroque> s/two/too
[16:51] <Makdaam> pcroque: Arch it is then... good bye Xubuntu Ø= and that werenæt the characters I tried to achieve either
[16:53] <pcroque> Makdaam: Gøød lúçķ
[16:53] <Makdaam> Thanks, see you later
[18:32] <akis> hi all. could anyone help to permanently delete /Desktop and /Downloads from my /home?
[18:34] <TheSheep> akis: no, but I can help you moving them somewhere out of the way
[18:35] <TheSheep> akis: just edit ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[18:36] <akis> ok. what should i type here?
[18:37] <autif> /dev/null might work?
[18:37] <TheSheep> akis: no
[18:37] <TheSheep> akis: but you can type some paths that are out of your way, or hidden
[18:37] <TheSheep> akis: for example, /home/akis/.desktop
[18:37] <knome> or /home/username
[18:37] <TheSheep> knome: bad idea
[18:38] <knome> TheSheep, why so?
[18:38] <TheSheep> knome: you don't want all the files from your home to be displayed on your desktop
[18:38] <knome> TheSheep, ah, it works that way.
[18:39] <akis> like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1209488/
[18:39] <TheSheep> akis: yeah
[18:40] <recon_lap> gimp is a bit annoying, the tool box shows on all workspaces :(
[18:40] <akis> lets see if works
[18:41] <akis> shuld i change dir name too? form /desktop to /.desktop?
[18:41] <pleia2> recon_lap: there is a way to stop it from doing that, trying to remember (I did it on my desktop)
[18:41] <TheSheep> akis: you can, or you can just delete it
[18:42] <TheSheep> recon_lap: in the settings change the window hint from utility window to normal window
[18:42] <akis> i tried both but nothing worked
[18:42] <TheSheep> recon_lap: it's in the 'window management' section
[18:42] <TheSheep> akis: what did you expect and what happened instead?
[18:44] <recon_lap> TheSheep: thx, that fixed it, would have taken forever to find that :)
[18:44] <akis> i expected that /desktop does not appear again in my /home but it should have stayed asa hidden file. But it appeared again and there is also the hidden i made
[18:45] <TheSheep> akis: you logged out and back in?
[18:46] <akis> no. i deleted and after some secs appeared again!
[18:47] <TheSheep> akis: the settings you changed will take effect after relogin, because there are still some apps running using the old settings
[18:47] <TheSheep> maybe just reloading xfdesktop would do it, too
[18:47] <akis> oh. thats true. i am going to log out. is that enough or do i have to restart?
[18:48] <TheSheep> akis: logging out should be enough
[18:49] <akis> ok. i come back in a couple of minutes.
[18:59] <akis> well. i am running in 2 machines. in one we probably had a bingo. at the other i see now on my desktop /documents. why?
[19:04] <akis> i fixed it in both. thank you for your advise. i hope it will work permanently. thank a lot!
[19:41] <Xifanie> Hello, I'm running on Xubuntu 12.04, and just installed Win XP but now my computer ignores my Xubuntu installation and just loads windows without giving me a choice.
[19:43] <TheSheep> !windows
[19:43] <TheSheep> Xifanie: sorry, wrong fact
[19:43] <TheSheep> !mbr
[19:43] <Xifanie> sweet, thanks
[19:43] <TheSheep> Xifanie: see the "Restore grub" link there
[20:07] <xubuntu452> hi, can someone help me, please?
[20:08] <xubuntu452> is this the right place to ask you some questions?
[20:08] <recon_lap> xubuntu452: just ask, if it's about xubuntu
[20:09] <xubuntu452> of course it's about that
[20:11] <xubuntu452> two days ago I bought an asus eepc x101ch with windows 7
[20:12] <xubuntu452> but this operating system is very slow
[20:13] <Xifanie> Do I really need Xubuntu to reinstall GRUB2? My bios is completely ignoring my USB key (even if I set it at highest priority, it reads it a bit then ignores the autorun), I don't have a CD burner, and I'm not even sure a Virtual Machine in WinXP would work.
[20:14] <Sysi> you need some linux livecd/usb
[20:14] <Xifanie> yay, so I'm screwed -_-
[20:15] <TheSheep> Xifanie: the recommended way is to install windows first, and then install ubuntu -- it doesn't wipe everything from the disk like windows does
[20:16] <recon_lap> Xifanie: you cant get a USB to boot? you sure the usb is setup correctly ?
[20:16] <xubuntu452> so i would like to install a linux system. which linux system do you recommend me to install in my netbook, xubuntu, lubuntu or ubuntu?
[20:17] <TheSheep> xubuntu452: considering where you are asking, the answer is obvious
[20:17] <Xifanie> well, it only lists my HD, CD/DVD drive, and removeable device. I set removeable device at 1st, but no matter what, my USB key flashes a bit then it gets past as if there were no autorun. Funny thing is that I used my key successfully before. Now I even made a clean reformat + Xubuntu Precise on it, and no good.
[20:18] <xubuntu452> TheSheep ok, ma un netbook asus x101ch come regge xubuntu?
[20:18] <TheSheep> xubuntu452: as long as it fits the minimal specs on the page, it should work
[20:18] <xubuntu452> but a netbook asus x101ch as holding xubuntu?
[20:19] <recon_lap> xubuntu452: sort of depends, whats important to you, fast and simple, or flashly and not so fast
[20:20] <TheSheep> Xifanie: can you remove hdd from the boot order?
[20:20] <Xifanie> I tried removing the other two, still no good
[20:21] <Xifanie> it told me something like "Insert a valid bootable device then press a key"
[20:21] <TheSheep> Xifanie: it's the same key you used to install?
[20:21] <Xifanie> yes
[20:21] <TheSheep> did you try a different usb port?
[20:21] <Xifanie> all of them
[20:21] <TheSheep> sometimes they only boot from one
[20:21] <TheSheep> :/
[20:22] <Xifanie> like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm screwed, I don't get it, why would my Bios do that all of a sudden -_-
[20:22] <Xifanie> I think I'll try with another USB key but AFAIK this one works perfectly
[20:23] <TheSheep> Xifanie: you might try pressing f8 or f12 at boot, sometimes that displays a menu with a choice of boot devices
[20:24] <Xifanie> alright thanks, I'll try that
[20:26] <xubuntu452> I am interested to make the netbook fast and lightweight. The activities that I normally carry out in pc are: surfing the internet with mozilla firefox, using some simple programs online (like evernote, plancake, nowdothis), reading a PDF file, sometimes skype, and especially using an Epson Stylus SX130. Xubuntu might be suitable for me?
[20:33] <David-A> Xifanie: in my older asus, there are 2 ways to boot from usb. 1) esc during boot, it then asks for boot device, list incl usb. 2) f2 into bios, boot settings has boot device priority AND hard disk drives, usb must be prioritized in BOTH if i recall correctly.
[20:33] <David-A> Xifanie: (terminology: boot from usb is not about "autorun")
[20:34] <pcroque> xubuntu452: Yes...it might. Xubuntu works well on my netbook (Asus eeepc 1005ha). Why don't you try it out with a live CD (or live USB).
[20:36] <recon_lap> xubuntu452: I'd say go for xubuntu then.  ubuntu might be a bit slow, but probably has better layout for small screens
[20:37] <recon_lap> xubuntu452: ubuntu would be quite a bit slower now that i think of it :)
[20:38] <Xifanie> Thank you TheSheep, worked like a charm!
[20:40] <TheSheep> Xifanie: excellent
[20:41] <xubuntu452> recon_lap: ok! I'll try Xubuntu :)
[20:42] <xubuntu452> pcroque: ok. First, a question: How do I change my nickname here in chat? so if I go out and then come back, you might recognize me. After: I could install xubuntu, while leaving windows? or I could create a partition and install it in xubuntu? In this case the system would be affected?
[20:42] <Xifanie> /nick newnick
[20:42] <xubuntu452> thanks
[20:45] <pcroque> xubuntu452: I would recommend trying the Live CD (or USB if you don't have a CD drive): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD
[20:45] <TheCountOfMonteC> ok
[20:45] <TheCountOfMonteC> I will use USB
[20:46] <pcroque> TheCountOfMonteC: Good luck.
[20:46] <recon_lap> TheCountOfMonteC: I'd suggest dropping the "the" from the nic to, pain when using auto complete :)
[20:47] <recon_lap> no offense intended TheDrums or TheSheep ;)
[20:47] <TheCountOfMonteC> great suggestion
[20:53] <TheCountOfMonteC> also by dropping the 'the', the (thethethe lol) nick can not contain the entire name. therefore, I try to download xubuntu, and burn it to a usb. in short, I will give you my news thanks
[21:14] <Guest56890> I'm downloading xubuntu. I hope I chose the right package
[21:14] <knome> Guest56890, which one did you download then?
[21:16] <Guest56890> knome : the file name is 'xubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-i386'
[21:16] <knome> Guest56890, that sounds like the safest choice :)
[21:16] <Guest56890> knome: the alternative was a file called 64bit, but my system is a 32bit, so I chose the other
[21:18] <Guest56890> well! Now, I'm going to read about how to burn an iso on usb
[21:18] <knome> Guest56890, there are both desktop and alternate for both, but desktop should work
[21:18] <Guest56890> ok
[21:23] <Guest56890> I'm not very familiar with linux and English. I think this is the right place to improve In both of these fields. unfortunately for you, you will see me often in the coming days. : D Now, I get disconnected and resume the installation work tomorrow. good night
[21:23] <Guest56890> thank u
[21:23] <knome> no problem
[21:23] <knome> see you later, and good luck with the installation
[21:24] <Guest56890> see you
[21:25] <Guest56890> but I could not change my nickname! patience, I'll try tomorrow. bye
[21:56] <phthano> Interestingly, Xubuntu seems more sluggish than Ubuntu under the Xubuntu-desktop package.
[21:56] <phthano> Any ideas what the cause for this could be?
[21:58] <recon_lap> phthano: how do you mean by Xubuntu-desktop package? do you mean you just changed gnome3 for xfce after installing ubuntu?
[21:59] <recon_lap> opps, i mean unity
[22:00] <phthano> recon_lap: Sort of. It's the Xubuntu tab under the login screen, not the XFCE.
[22:00] <phthano> When you install xubuntu-desktop as a package, it's that one with all the associated packages, not just XFCE.
[22:01] <phthano> Yeah. It seems much faster and I'm puzzled as to why.
[22:02] <phthano> These are VMs if it makes any difference.
[22:03] <phthano> recon_lap: Is there a fundamental difference in the way Xubuntu sets up the disks for I/O?
[22:03] <phthano> By default.
[22:05] <recon_lap> phthano: dont think so, the basics are the same between xubuntu and ubuntu, but Canonical have been chasing the money and forgotten about performance, people with money dont use old hardware
[22:05] <phthano> recon_lap: That's a good point. It makes me wonder if I have it misconfigured.
[22:06] <phthano> Canonical are definitely chasing the money, but I think that's okay if desktop Linux makes headway.
[22:08] <recon_lap> phthano: dont know enough to really help, not really sure what your saying anyway. that xubuntu is mis-configured or that ubuntu is mis-configured
[22:08] <KombuchaKip> What is the best way to move my xfce settings from one machine to another?
[22:08] <phthano> recon_lap: Thanks anyway.
[22:09] <recon_lap> KombuchaKip: not sure, but most of your setting should be in hidden files in you home directory
[22:10] <KombuchaKip> recon_lap: ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/* ?
[22:12] <phthano> KombuchaKip: Yes, go to your home folder and hit "Ctrl-H" to show your hidden folders.
[22:12] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Ok, thanks.
[22:13] <phthano> KombuchaKip: It's also a great way to move application settings between machines.
[22:13] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Yes, thanks.
[22:20] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Where is the config that contains all my panel settings, widget placement, etc?
[22:21] <phthano> KombuchaKip: Let me figure that out, just a moment.
[22:21] <recon_lap> phthano: I do remember some saying that installing ubuntu and then changing to xfce is not optimal.
[22:22] <phthano> recon_lap: But it's actually faster that way.
[22:22] <KombuchaKip> recon_lap: Dunno.
[22:22] <phthano> KombuchaKip: I think it is .config
[22:22] <phthano> "/home/.config/"
[22:23] <KombuchaKip> phthano: That's a big folder for many applications. Do you know where it is specifically?
[22:23] <phthano> KombuchaKip: ~/home/.config/xfce4/panel or something similar
[22:24] <phthano> On 12.04, for me, literally /home/phthano/.config/xfce4/panel
[22:24] <recon_lap> phthano: lol, guess thats what I get for believing what i read on the internet :)
[22:25] <KombuchaKip> phthano: I tried that and it didn't update the panel.
[22:25] <phthano> recon_lap: There is probably a good reason they said that and it just isn't anecdotally true in my case.
[22:25] <phthano> KombuchaKip: Oh, interesting. Did you log in and out?
[22:27] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Yes. I wasn't logged in when I copied the files over sftp.
[22:27] <Artemis3> phthano, xubuntu doesn't seem slower to me, or do you mean time it takes to load the desktop? There is a bug about that for 12.04, didn't happen to me on 3 machines tho.
[22:27] <phthano> Artemis3: No, I mean responsiveness.
[22:28] <Artemis3> phthano, such as?
[22:28] <phthano> Artemis3: Menus are slower to load, applications are slower to open.
[22:28] <phthano> Artemis3: Navigating file paths are slower.
[22:29] <Artemis3> phthano, ok, this is against a pure xfce, or against unity?
[22:29] <phthano> Artemis3: Against Unity.
[22:29] <Artemis3> hmmmm navigating file paths slower...
[22:29] <phthano> KombuchaKip: http://superuser.com/questions/178310/in-what-files-in-the-home-dir-does-xfce-store-the-user-config-data
[22:29] <phthano> Artemis3: I know, right? It's odd.
[22:29] <Artemis3> did you try launching nautilus?
[22:29] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Thank you.
[22:29] <phthano> Artemis3: Yes, I am launching Nautilus.
[22:29] <phthano> Artemis3: I am using that.
[22:29] <Artemis3> so same nautilus, and it is slower in xubuntu?
[22:30] <Artemis3> perhaps...
[22:30] <phthano> Artemis3: I believe I have figured it out.
[22:30] <Artemis3> see if in your process you hace a thumblerd taking cpu
[22:30] <phthano> Artemis3: It think I just didn't have the video drivers enabled.
[22:30] <Artemis3> have
[22:31] <Artemis3> thumblerd is quite the buggy thing, specially if you open a folder where you are downloading a video
[22:31] <Artemis3> but i don't know if nautilus uses it or it is thunar only?
[22:32] <Artemis3> thumblerd makes thumbnails for thunar, but maybe it keeps running all the time
[22:32] <phthano> Artemis3: It was the drivers, but additionally, I did not have as much RAM allocated as my Unity box.
[22:32] <phthano> It defaulted to less.
[22:32] <Artemis3> well you are using both xfce and gnome things
[22:32] <Artemis3> a pure xfce should consume less ram
[22:32] <phthano> Artemis3: Right, right.
[22:33] <Artemis3> that deamon is an example you wouldn't have with a normal ubuntu running
[22:34] <phthano> Artemis3: I don't think that is true because I am using the Xubuntu desktop enviroment, not just xfce.
[22:34] <Artemis3> and indeed, Xubuntu could use more love
[22:35] <Artemis3> thumblerd makes pretty thumbnails, it is not required to run, but Xubuntu wouldn't leave it out, would they? But if you also use nautilus and all the gnome baggage
[22:35] <thomasross> Hi
[22:36] <Artemis3> the only way to compare is you install from minimal, and just the xfce4 metapackage instead of xubuntu-desktop
[22:37] <Artemis3> xfce4 would use wicd instead of NetworkManager, so be aware
[22:37] <Artemis3> no gnome libs tho, should give you more memory
[22:39] <KombuchaKip> phthano: I copied the entire .config/xfce/* directory over to the new machine and my panel is still unchanged, even after a reboot.
[22:40] <knome> Artemis3, can you elaborate on the "could user more love" ?
[22:40] <knome> Artemis3, or, regarding what
[22:41] <phthano> KombuchaKip: I don't know what else to tell you, post on the forum, I'm sure someone can help you.
[22:42] <KombuchaKip> phthano: Thanks.
[22:44] <Artemis3> knome, more testing, more reporting, more fixing. the usual.
[22:45] <knome> Artemis3, workforce welcome
[22:46] <Artemis3> ie, on my machines i get apport nagging me almost daily, one of the items say "unreportable reason" bleh :) so... Just can't boot to desktop without that thing appearing, need to remove it
[22:46] <knome> file a bug, and we might be able to look at it
[22:47] <knome> or submit a patch :)
[22:47] <Artemis3> yes, about 10 or 20 attempts later, i gave up on that thing
[22:47] <Artemis3> happens on clean installs too, wonder how could you not catch it
[22:48] <knome> if bugs aren't reported, they can't be fixed
[22:48] <knome> maybe it's hardware-dependent?
[22:48] <Artemis3> yes, apport launches, it says "send report" blah, if someone takes the time to browse the item, one of them says it can't be reported
[22:49] <Artemis3> so, many people might think its getting reported, but it isn't. Next day you boot up the machine, happens again. Only once, usually that thumblerd
[22:50] <Artemis3> hope 12.10 is better
[22:50] <knome> again, bugs can't be fixed, if they aren't reported
[22:50] <knome> maybe it is fixed, maybe not
[22:51] <knome> it's not going to be fixed automagically.
[22:55] <Artemis3> knome is there a place for suggestions or vote for features?
[22:56] <Artemis3> knome, the vuze team recently got one set up and its impressive
[22:58] <thomasross> I'm trying to install xubuntu on an IBM Aptiva, All i get when i try to install is a black desktop with nothing but the picture. Can you help me?
[22:59] <thomasross> *blank
[22:59] <knome> Artemis3, when we start building the roadmap, all ideas are welcome
[22:59] <knome> Artemis3, and there's brainstorm too, though that's not too well monitored.
[22:59] <knome> Artemis3, #xubuntu-devel generally
[23:00] <Artemis3> knome, a system like this: http://vote.vuze.com/forums/170588-general
[23:00] <Artemis3> looks a bit like brainstorm
[23:00] <knome> yes
[23:00] <Artemis3> but that one is official, the devs are paying attention
[23:01] <knome> generally, community voting is a noble idea, but in the end, those who write the code or work on it will do whatever they think are worth their time
[23:01] <thomasross> Artemis3: I'm trying to install xubuntu on an IBM Aptiva, All i get when i try to install is a black desktop with nothing but the picture. Can you help me?
[23:01] <knome> !patience | thomasross
[23:02] <Artemis3> ok, assume the "more love needed" would be, for instance, implement and pay attention to that feedback. Of course some things are for upstream, but the distro related things you can actually change
[23:03] <knome> Artemis3, we do go through the bugreports and stuff. brainstorm really rarely has had ideas about xubuntu, that's also why it isn't maintained. ideas posted to #xubuntu-devel are processed.
[23:05] <Artemis3> a bit ago an user was complaining booting and perfomance was inferior in xubuntu against ubuntu, i have noticed the boot to desktop issue, and perhaps the first time you click the menu, could be upstream related tho.
[23:05] <Artemis3> yes well, i don't think most common users would go to #xubuntu-devel and make proper bug reports
[23:06] <knome> no, they shouldn't. bug reports should be filed to launchpad
[23:06] <Artemis3> i have filled a few on lauchpad, and can understand how difficult might be
[23:06] <knome> but seriously, if you don't think it's worth filing a bug, how can you think a developer thinks it's worth fixing it for you?
[23:06] <Artemis3> the brainstorm thing is important imo, if it was more official.
[23:07] <knome> the brainstorm is official, and you can volunteer to keep track of the new xubuntu ideas and report them to irc or our mailing list.
[23:08] <knome> (and yeah, we also have community meetings and all that, where everybody is welcome)
[23:08] <Artemis3> maybe you need a script to import the most voted things into the mailing list :)
[23:08] <knome> thanks for volunteering to write that
[23:08] <Artemis3> lol
[23:08] <knome> it's not like we're not listening to our users.
[23:09] <knome> it's like they need to do it on the communication channels we are on, we aren't going to browse through all facebook pages that mention xubuntu :)
[23:10] <Artemis3> noo, just make it clear where people should go, i don't think it's obvious you can vote on things in brainstorm and that would be even read by devs
[23:10] <knome> and the other side of the coin has always been the team being low on resources; why waste (too much) time to read what our users want, if we're burning down the time we could fix bugs that are properly filed
[23:11] <knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
[23:11] <Artemis3> bugs first thats ok
[23:11] <knome> there's a three-step guide on how to get involved
[23:11] <knome> that is: the mailing list, the irc channel, the community meetings
[23:12] <knome> and yes, if there is clear bugs in the software/OS, please report them as appropriate
[23:12] <knome> and yes i know the brainstorm is not included
[23:12] <Artemis3> i doubt many people will join the ml to voice an opinion, or even report a bug
[23:12] <knome> s/included/mentioned/
[23:12] <ochosi> sidenote: usually ppl in the dev-team have more ideas than they can implement...
[23:13] <knome> Artemis3, in that case, too bad
[23:13] <Artemis3> i have used ml for decades, and even i wouldn't bother anymore
[23:13] <knome> Artemis3, maybe it is not too important for them then
[23:13] <Artemis3> think of the new generations... subscribe? mail? moderator aproval?
[23:13] <ochosi> well, it's not like we're all just old farts :)
[23:14] <Artemis3> at least the brainstorm is just, point to url, and vote
[23:14] <Artemis3> launchpad... that can be more difficult, but for bugs its worth it
[23:14] <knome> maybe that's one of the problems of brainstorm
[23:14] <Artemis3> remember that ubuntu cutpaper thingies?
[23:14] <knome> it's too easy to +1 everything that is great
[23:15] <Artemis3> or what was called
[23:15] <Artemis3> where people could submit small ideas
[23:15] <ochosi> i personally think it's ok if people have to show a certain amount of "interest" (=invest time) to really have their vote counting on things that others work on in their (totally free) time
[23:15] <knome> ochosi, +n, preferably >100
[23:15] <ochosi> below that barrier, you just tend to get loads of "spam" and "trolls"
[23:16] <Artemis3> see the votes in the vuze project, the dumb stuff is ignored
[23:16] <ochosi> (which is totally unhelpful)
[23:16] <Artemis3> but important things do come, and are often implemented
[23:16] <ochosi> even ignoring takes time and energy
[23:16] <knome> Artemis3, imagine this... i spent several days this cycle calling for people to help with our documentation rewrite
[23:17] <Artemis3> no, you don't HAVE to do all that is requested, even if it gets many votes
[23:17] <knome> Artemis3, i think the outcome was one new guy who actually contributed a notable amount of time
[23:17] <knome> Artemis3, compare that to the fact it took me 2 days to convert all the stuff to docbook, which is a big task
[23:17] <knome> Artemis3, do you really think i should have used two more days to try to get people doing something?
[23:18] <knome> Artemis3, or read their wishlists?
[23:18] <Artemis3> that is for you to decide
[23:18] <knome> Artemis3, or would you rather just have the new documentation, because if i (or in other cases, somebody else), didn't do the conversion, you didn't have that?
[23:19] <Artemis3> same thing. you decide what to do
[23:19] <Artemis3> but at least you know what others are thinking
[23:19] <Artemis3> even making people come here is difficult
[23:20] <knome> what do i do with that information if i have no time to work on anything?
[23:20] <ochosi> congrats for making it here :}
[23:20] <knome> yes, it must have been a long journey... would you like to have a seat and a drink, maybe some whiskey?
[23:20] <Artemis3> then you know that issue is there
[23:20] <Artemis3> no time today... but you are now aware of it.
[23:21] <ochosi> yeah, in a way we do. but to quote you "that's up for us to decide" (what to do with that)
[23:21] <knome> Artemis3, yeah... but there's that other guy's request tomorrow i need to read, and again, i don't have time to do anything about either of the issues.
[23:22] <ochosi> problem is that users often aren't aware of what their wishes entail
[23:22] <knome> i'm sorry but this starts to be quite unproductive
[23:22] <knome> the bottom line is that we really do not have the time to go around and look what our users want, unless they are reporting their problems/wishes to us correctly
[23:23] <Artemis3> i was just pointing you could make this "reporting correctly" part easier.
[23:23] <knome> if they don't want to make that effort, i don't think it's important enough for them, and i'm definitely not going to use my time fixing something that isn't even that important
[23:24] <knome> reporting is easy enough already. sending a mail to the -devel list even unsubscribed will eventually be approved (surprise: by me) and all the developers will be able to see it
[23:24] <ochosi> Artemis3: yeah, but there are even automated dialogs for reporting app-crashes nowadays. and there is an easy way now to just "+1" a bugreport on launchpad. it's not like these things aren't improving
[23:24] <knome> yeah, and seriously i think reporting a bug is really easy
[23:25] <Artemis3> or could be they don't even know how to
[23:25] <knome> just throw in a lousy title, lousy description and no attachments; somebody will come and tell you what you need to send us...
[23:25] <ochosi> problem with ubuntuforums and askubuntu or brainstorm is exactly what you see as an advantage: it's not standardized at all. so all the work of sorting this by importance or anything is up to us
[23:26] <knome> Artemis3, if they don't know how to send an email or how to open a simple web page to do a simple operation, then i suppose it's too bad
[23:26] <ochosi> since the work of fixing a bug or improving a behavior is also up to us (~7people at best) i think we can leave this tiny effort up to our users
[23:27] <knome> i have to point out that this isn't just about xubuntu, it's about many many other projects too
[23:27] <Artemis3> ok, but at least see how the vuze guys are doing it with their "vote" system, http://vote.vuze.com/forums/170588-general if you don't like it fine, its for the requests features, not bugs, launchpad is fine for bugs.
[23:28] <knome> Artemis3, the vuze project probably has enough people to run that site properly, and check it out all the time. good for them.
[23:28] <knome> Artemis3, i would build a new, better, brainstorm system myself for xubuntu if i didn't know i have better things to do than that.
[23:29] <Artemis3> or clarify how to use brainstorm in a way that's useful for you.
[23:29] <ochosi> Artemis3: if you agree to administer the brainstorming i think we'll gladly accept you as part of our team doing just that :)
[23:29] <ochosi> (if you wanna do more that's obviously great)
[23:29] <Artemis3> some guidelines
[23:30] <knome> ochosi, Artemis3: yes, as i said; you are very welcome to volunteer to monitor brainstorm pass the ideas to our mailing list
[23:30] <knome> guidelines for what?
[23:30] <Artemis3> what do you expect, what you don't want
[23:30] <ochosi> knome: i'm _not_ going to volunteer for that :p (unless you don't want any artwork anymore ;))
[23:30] <Artemis3> :)
[23:30] <knome> ochosi, :P
[23:31] <Artemis3> ok ochosi if you make me a dark theme, lol j/k
[23:31] <knome> Artemis3, well, that's the issue with brainstorm: there is no guidelines, and it would defeat the purpose, if there was
[23:31] <ochosi> Artemis3: have you tried blackbird in 12.10 yet?
[23:31] <Artemis3> then i can't pass you every little thing to the ml
[23:31] <Artemis3> ill try blackbird
[23:31] <ochosi> do so :)
[23:31] <ochosi> and _report bugs_! :)
[23:32] <knome> Artemis3, when i looked the last time, there was a huge total of 1 idea about xubuntu, which was several years old
[23:32] <knome> Artemis3, so, i'm not thinking that would really fill our inboxes.
[23:33] <Artemis3> if help points to brainstorm, with a "vote for features" or something, might attract some attention
[23:33] <knome> "vote for features" is totally misleading.
[23:33] <Artemis3> of course those wouldn't be the exact words
[23:33] <knome> there is simply no promise that the "feature" that had the most votes would be implemented
[23:34] <Artemis3> this is what the vuze guys put: "Vote for Vuze!  Vuze would be more awesome if it could ..."
[23:34] <knome> and that's probably the biggest flaw of brainstorm with a small developer team
[23:35] <Artemis3> and thats it
[23:35] <Artemis3> so they feel free to pick what they like and ignore what they don't
[23:35] <Artemis3> obviously someone is going to request the kitchen sink
[23:36] <knome> Artemis3, will you draft that, and are you willing to oversee how the ideas in brainstorm for xubuntu look like, and report to developers?
[23:36] <ochosi> yeah. meh. you know we'd have so many people coming back saying: "booh, i voted for this, you didn't implement it even though it was the most-voted-for item." (replace this e.g. with "tabs in thunar")
[23:36] <knome> yep.
[23:37] <Artemis3> english is not my first language so it would be difficult to write much
[23:37] <knome> we also need somebody to sit on the complaints department
[23:37] <ochosi> Artemis3: you seem to do fine here :) (and we're not natives either)
[23:37] <Artemis3> if i knew a single url to go for Xubuntu votes or, what word would you like to use?
[23:38] <thomasross> I'm trying to install xubuntu on an IBM Aptiva, All i get when i try to install is a black desktop with nothing but the picture. Can you help me?
[23:38] <Artemis3> and which lists i need to subscribe, etc.
[23:38] <Artemis3> where do i report things, all that
[23:38] <knome> Artemis3, http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ there's the top xubuntu ideas
[23:39] <Artemis3> and then promote
[23:39] <thomasross> I quit.
[23:40] <Artemis3> little patience
[23:40] <ochosi> yeah, very typical (unfortunately)
[23:40] <ochosi> not very appreciative of those hanging out here to help in their free time
[23:41] <knome> correction: in their free time at almost 3am
[23:41] <ochosi> lol
[23:41] <ochosi> yeah, that too :)
[23:42] <ochosi> Artemis3: i'd really suggest you spend more time here, you'll start to see things from our perspective more ;)
[23:42] <Artemis3> im looking at the brainstorm page
[23:43] <knome> s/here/at #xubuntu-devel/ ;)
[23:43] <Artemis3> ok ill add the channel to my list of channels i auto join
[23:43] <Artemis3> oh wait
[23:43] <ochosi> btw, i'm already waiting for reviews to beat us up about dropping a few apps from default install...
[23:44] <Artemis3> which apps?
[23:44] <knome> "how dare they, now they even fit a CD"
[23:44] <ochosi> gimp, gnumeric
[23:44] <Artemis3> ah
[23:44] <ochosi> (to name to prominent ones)
[23:44] <Deutopia> so whats the option for image editing?
[23:44] <ochosi> we simply didn't have a choice, but i don't think any reviewer will take that into consideration
[23:45] <ochosi> Deutopia: sudo apt-get install gimp
[23:45] <Deutopia> good choice
[23:45] <ochosi> ;)
[23:45] <Artemis3> well if there is a dvd image with those as well
[23:45] <Artemis3> not like i use optical discs anymore but :)
[23:45] <ochosi> just because it's not part of default install doesn't mean you can't use it, but many don't see that...
[23:45] <Artemis3> i can only think of an offline install
[23:46] <Artemis3> where that would matter
[23:46]  * Deutopia does a lot of offline installs
[23:46] <Deutopia> gimp isnt a big deal
[23:46] <knome> no, there's no dvd for xubuntu
[23:46] <Artemis3> perhaps there should be
[23:47] <Deutopia> kinda goes against xubuntu being a lightweight distro
[23:47] <ochosi> lightweight and userfriendly are partly conflicting ideals
[23:47] <ochosi> so it's a thin line for us
[23:47] <Artemis3> including gnumeric and abiword is fine, unless you instead put libreoffice :)
[23:48] <knome> perhaps you should rethink how much stuff actually fits on a 700MB CD :P
[23:48] <knome> Artemis3, we can maintain a dvd image, if you volunteer to maintain it..
[23:49] <Artemis3> i use the minimal uso :)
[23:49] <Artemis3> iso
[23:51] <Artemis3> let me take a look at things included in the 12.10 iso
[23:56] <Angeroni> Whats up guys and gals?
[23:57] <ochosi> Angeroni: you tell me
[23:57] <ochosi> oh, and off he goes
[23:57] <Artemis3> you scared him
[23:57] <Artemis3> ;)
[23:57] <ochosi> by not answering in time you mean? :p