[00:18]  * scitesy is away: I'm busy
[04:16] <snap-l> Hello from 12.04
[10:19] <rick_h__> party snap-l
[10:19] <rick_h__> morning
[12:00] <snap-l> morning
[12:03] <brousch> ug
[12:06] <rick_h__> yea, with brousch
[12:06] <snap-l> Good morning
[12:06] <snap-l> Having fun yet?
[12:07] <rick_h__> party http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/new-fitbits-can-sync-with-iphones-androids-via-bluetooth-4-0/ jcastro doh isn't here
[12:12] <rick_h__> oh hmm, that's interesting http://www.amazonappstoredev.com/2012/09/amazon-maps-api.html
[12:22] <brousch> I didn't even know they had their own SDK
[12:32] <brousch> Two more interesting things http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/googles-java-translator-eases-path-ipad-iphone-apps-202377
[12:32] <rick_h__> yea, couldn't decide if that was interesting or not
[12:44] <brousch> Wow, what a confusing mess http://chicago-gtug.com/
[12:56] <snap-l> Wow. That's insane. Looks like some kind of mishmash between Google and Javadoc.
[13:00] <snap-l> BTW: FIL is doing better. He's uncomfortable, but able to walk on his leg.
[13:01] <rick_h__> snap-l: great to hear!
[13:02] <snap-l> Yeah, hoping he starts feeling a lot better soon.
[13:02] <snap-l> he's off his food, unfortunately.
[13:02] <rick_h__> 'off his food'?
[13:03] <rick_h__> like not following the prescribed diet?
[13:03] <snap-l> Just not eating like he usually does
[13:03] <snap-l> ie: ordering the menu
[13:03] <rick_h__> ah, ok gotcha
[13:04] <snap-l> It was discovered that PHP incorrectly handled certain character sequences
[13:04] <snap-l> when applying HTTP response-splitting protection. A remote attacker could
[13:04] <snap-l> create a specially-crafted URL and inject arbitrary headers.
[13:04] <snap-l> (CVE-2011-1398, CVE-2012-4388)
[13:04] <snap-l> (sigh)
[13:07] <rick_h__> there's jcastro_
[13:09] <jcastro_> hi
[13:09] <rick_h__> jcastro_: you see the new fitbit's with android support?
[13:09] <jcastro_> no
[13:09] <jcastro_> looking
[13:13] <snap-l> jcastro: Rush, tomorrow night
[13:13] <jcastro> I heard on the radio
[13:18] <snap-l> jcastro: You going?
[13:18] <jcastro> no
[13:18] <jcastro> found out too late
[13:18] <snap-l> Bummer
[13:18] <jcastro> and I poured every ounce of cash into this house
[13:23] <snap-l> jcastro: Ah, sorry.
[13:23] <jcastro> I have this tour on bluray now so it's not so bad
[13:23] <brousch> Come on. It's Rush. Sell a kidney.
[13:23] <jcastro> I lie, yes it is.
[13:24] <snap-l> This tour on Bluray? Um, how is that possible.
[13:24] <snap-l> New tour.
[13:26] <brousch> Many tours sound alike
[13:36] <jcastro> snap-l, sorry, I meant the last one we were on
[13:36] <jcastro> which had 2 new songs, but the CD wasn't out yet iirc
[13:43] <snap-l> Yeah
[14:33] <shakes808> good morning
[14:34] <krondor> morning
[14:36] <rick_h__> ugh monday how I hate thee
[14:36] <shakes808> rick_h_: ++
[14:42] <jrwren> http://linux.die.net/man/3/pcre_dfa_exec  <-- awesome, so glad this exists, now just wish more things used it.
[14:42] <jrwren> snap-l: why did you wait so long to move to 12.04 ?
[14:52] <snap-l> jrwren: a) needed a new HDD, and b) felt like an ordeal
[14:53] <snap-l> I was on 11.04, so doing a simple upgrade wasn't possible, and I wanted to skip 11.10
[15:43] <jrwren> sweet lord: http://amoffat.github.com/sh/
[15:43] <jrwren> snap-l: well awesome. welcome to the party. (12.04)
[15:44] <jrwren> snap-l: upgrades work well for me. I think my system was originally breezy and has upgraded all the way through.
[16:01] <rick_h__> http://goo.gl/isZJw
[16:02] <rick_h__> hah nosql bashing ammo ^
[16:02] <paultag> le sigh
[16:02] <paultag> people using nosql for the wrong reasons
[16:02] <rick_h__> makes my case that people just don't know their crap enough and pick up the latest trend
[16:02] <rick_h__> right
[16:03] <paultag> nosql rocks
[16:04] <rick_h__> (for a limited subset of large scale, limited scoped dataset problems)
[16:04] <paultag> (or data that you can not practically enforce a schema on)
[16:05] <jrwren> " Now my model, which I have carefully constructed so as to adhere to the Single Responsibility Principal..."  <-- someone doesn't know document databases.
[16:06] <rick_h__> ok, EVT is a great case. But even then I almost wonder if a mixed environment works best
[16:06] <jrwren> the whole point of a docdb is that you DO repeat yourself, as much as you need to.
[16:06] <rick_h__> jrwren: right
[16:16] <jrwren> anyone have any cherrypy debug tips?
[16:16] <jcastro> smoser, feel like lunch?
[16:16] <jrwren> i've got a request that never ends, and before I go instrumenting with logging, I want to see if there is anything else.
[16:16] <smoser> jcastro, no. i've not been productive enough to earn it.
[16:17] <jcastro> hah
[16:17] <jcastro> man, tough breaks
[16:17] <jcastro> you just don't eat if you don't work hard enough?
[16:18] <brousch> jrwren: Try #cherrypy on oftc. The creator is usually in there
[16:20] <smoser> jcastro are you implying your manager allows you food independent of your performance?
[16:20] <jcastro> hah
[16:22] <jrwren> http://www.daniweb.com/community-center/geeks-lounge/threads/152368/top-20-things-likely-to-be-overheard-from-a-klingon-programmer
[17:03] <jcastro> score!
[17:03] <jcastro> jill's first parking ticket in Ann Arbor!
[17:04] <jhansonxi> jcastro: Admit it.  You called the parking police.
[17:04] <jcastro> sshhh
[17:05] <rick_h__> jcastro: ouch, didn't take long
[17:05] <jcastro> heh
[17:05] <jcastro> she was like 10 minutes over
[17:05] <jcastro> I was like "welcome to ann arbor!"
[17:05] <rick_h__> hah
[17:05] <rick_h__> yea, always hated parking down there, though usually I ended up in a garage
[17:09] <jrwren> jcastro: tell her to go pay it RIGHT NOW, it will be like $8 or $10, but will be $20 by tomorrow.
[17:09] <jcastro> yeah
[17:09] <jrwren> its a short walk from her work.
[17:28] <snap-l> That mongodb -> psql is a textbook example of being upset when you're looking for jewler's screwedrivers, and decide instead to use a cannon
[17:32] <jrwren> oh snap-l you always have the funniest analogies.
[17:46] <snap-l> I just shake my head when folks decide to use MongoDB for something that doesn't require blinding speed and eventual consistency
[17:48] <snap-l> And frankly, I'm no fan of mongoDB anyway. Seemed your data was secondary to beating benchmarks
[17:48] <jrwren> i find the performance dubious as well.
[17:48] <jrwren> "keep everything in memory" <-- guess what, this is really fast with RDBMS too
[17:49] <snap-l> Yeah, it's like a collection of dubious practices
[17:49] <greg-g> +1 to snap-l's creative analogies
[17:49] <snap-l> "We only write to disk when we absolutely have to"
[17:49] <snap-l> "We only pay people when we absolutely have to"
[17:50] <greg-g> hey, you're starting to talk like a startup!
[17:51] <snap-l> Maybe that's the true meaning of cloud computing: your data is just "out there" until someone pulls the plug
[17:51] <snap-l> Then it's puff-of-smoke computing
[17:52] <jrwren> s3 is sadly the opposite.
[17:52] <jrwren> its been so stable, people can't imagine it not being there.
[17:52] <snap-l> greg-g: Where we're going on the Internet, we don't need money
[17:53] <snap-l> We'll be able to mine the walls for bitcoin, and maximize investor revenue
[17:53] <snap-l> And drink Pina Coladas made of put energy and good intentions
[17:53] <snap-l> jrwren: Until it isn't.
[17:58] <greg-g> snap-l's favorite new refrain, "until it isn't"
[17:58] <greg-g> but, it is such a koan like response, it always works
[18:00] <snap-l> It's all fun and games, until it isn't. ;)
[18:02] <snap-l> Dropping koans like Galileo dropped the orange.
[18:02] <snap-l> (apologies to the Beastie Boys)
[18:26] <jcastro> jrwren, since you're such a joel fan, what do you think about this: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/09/17/attaching-a-number-to-best-practices/
[18:32] <snap-l> Once you attach a number to something, it becomes a game (paraphrase of Rob Malda over /.'s karma system)
[18:34] <snap-l> If it's a simple binary checklist, then it's cool, but if you start putting numbers to it, you'll run the risk of people trying to game them
[18:34] <snap-l> I know it seems insane, but try this experiment:
[18:34] <snap-l> You have a ladder: Terrible, poor, mediocre, fair, good, great, superb, legendary
[18:35] <snap-l> And each movement up the ladder is one point
[18:36] <snap-l> So, if you're at mediocre, you can move to fair using one point
[18:36] <snap-l> one shift, if you will
[18:36] <snap-l> So, starting from mediocre, you can get to great with 3 points
[18:37] <snap-l> shifts
[18:37] <snap-l> So, not bad.
[18:37] <snap-l> Now, try this
[18:37] <snap-l> -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, +6, +7
[18:37] <snap-l> You start at 0
[18:37] <snap-l> You're going to want to get as high as possible on that ladder
[18:38] <snap-l> because +3 isn't the same as great. It's somewhere not +7
[18:39] <snap-l> even though in this example, legendary is beyond even human capabilities (ie: herculean).
[18:39] <snap-l> (Example comes from The Fudge / FATE / Strands of Fate games)
[18:41] <krondor> ugh to unattainable rankings. Employee review scale 1 to 5, but nobody gets a 5.
[18:41]  * krondor shakesfist
[18:41] <snap-l> krondor: Exactly.
[18:42] <snap-l> And actually, I screwed up that ladder. There's more adjectives in there.
[18:42] <snap-l> http://hill-kleerup.org/pmwiki/FATE/TheLadder
[18:43] <snap-l> http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/15928/expand-the-numeric-scale-of-strands-of-fate
[18:43] <krondor> legendary, epic, minor deity, major diety, omnipotent, segfault?
[18:44] <snap-l> In Fudge, they strictly caution against applying numbers to the ladder
[18:44] <snap-l> (as strictly as a free-form game can admonish)
[18:45] <snap-l> krondor: YOu have caused the universe to core-dump.
[18:47] <greg-g> yeah, I'm annoyed that our new merit review rubrics have a list "25%, 50%, 75% of comparable compensation" (where "%" actually means "percentile")
[18:48] <greg-g> so, you don't think *any* CC employee is in 75+ percentile?
[18:48] <greg-g> ef that
[18:50] <jcastro> hey
[18:50] <jcastro> does traffic move to or from ann arbor in rush hour?
[18:56] <greg-g> highways aroudn A2 are a clusterfuck in all directions
[19:04] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/SLKv7FhJZANP10C0TImj/
[19:04] <snap-l> ^ sent to the MUG board list.
[19:08] <greg-g> every minute
[19:09] <snap-l> Maybe it's a message FROM THE FUTURE
[19:09] <snap-l> we need to make sure the board members aren't flying on the same plane.
[19:26] <rick_h__> best oatmeal ever
[19:26] <rick_h__> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox
[20:55] <jcastro> smoser, did you work hard enough for a beer yet?
[20:56] <smoser> jcastro, hm... maybe. but i have 2 soccer team pictures to tend to first.
[20:56] <jcastro> always with the soccer
[20:57] <brousch> That's unamerican!
[20:57] <brousch> You take football photos or move back to the EU
[20:59] <smoser> jcastro, i dont know. we'll see.
[20:59] <jcastro> I get the feeling that having these .... "kids" takes up all your time
[20:59] <jcastro> this concept is foreign to me
[21:00] <brousch> jcastro: You are correct sir
[21:16] <snap-l> "Liked Ubuntu until they introduced that shocking GUI with stupid bar on left side of the screen.I literally began hating it....Still makes me vomit. No offence to anybody who likes it but i can't just help myself."
[21:17] <snap-l> I would pay money to see someone vomit because of Unity.
[21:17] <snap-l> no ipecac, no gagging, just a simple, straightforward cookie toss when shown Unity.
[21:18] <greg-g> I don't think I'd pay money to see anyone vomit, really
[21:18] <snap-l> Wlel, I'd probably leave the room once they started
[21:19] <snap-l> But if they could show me a tape of them in a controlled experiment vomiting when exposed to Unity, I'd pay money for that.
[21:25] <greg-g> good thing he only literally hated it, not literally makes him vomit :)
[22:14] <snap-l> heh
[22:45] <derekv> I keep forgetting there's people who choose a linux distrobution because of how it "looks" out of the box
[22:57] <llua> they are very vocal about it too derekv.
[23:42] <derekv> jokes on them, definatly quicker to change up how it looks and acts then to try a bunch of different distros