zykotick9i think "ubuntu-bug <PACKAGE-NAME>" helps no one but canonical...  ubuntu is NOT a community distribution (even if it's had that "rap" for a while), ubuntu volunteers are unpaid canonical employees.00:40
IdleOnewhich is pretty much what any volunteer for any organization is.00:41
IdleOneour "payment" is the freedom to use the OS as we please00:42
zykotick9IdleOne: i doubt "most" volunteer orgainization take/or accept volunteer submissions for core "intellectual property" (i'm useing IP although i hate that word)00:43
zykotick9IdleOne: you are NOT "free" to use ubuntu as you please!  that is wrong.  ubuntu has a ton of non-free software.  sorry i gotta point this out - strongly.00:44
zykotick9IdleOne: ubuntu's changing/evolving stand on "free" software is very interesting actually...00:45
IdleOneYou are free to remove the non-free software00:46
IdleOnenobody forces you to use it.00:46
zykotick9lol i use it by choice, and it's a personal failing ;)00:47
IdleOneI'm not 100% certain but I don't believe that any non-free software is installed default.00:47
IdleOnezykotick9: I also use some non-free software by choice :)00:47
IdleOneI'm just being devils advocate here00:47
zykotick9IdleOne: lol... you must be kidding.  drivers/ubuntuone/many more.00:47
IdleOnewhich drivers?00:48
IdleOneI'll give you ubuntuone :)00:48
zykotick9do you say ubuntu "comes" with nvidia/ati drivers?00:48
IdleOneit doesn't come with those drivers, it does come with the ability to install them.00:49
zykotick9IdleOne: nouveau for nvidia is "free"00:49
IdleOnethe choice is left to the user to install or not.00:49
zykotick9nice - my requirement for an OS - is free and NON-FREE!00:49
zykotick9ubuntu doesn't meet that standard :(00:49
IdleOneI'm not sure I understand exactly what that standard is.00:50
IdleOneI do understand that the /Ubuntu Community/ is about more than the OS and what drivers it comes with.00:51
zykotick9IdleOne: my "requirement" that my OS, be either to be totally free/libre OR non-free.  debian and gentoo meet my requirement.00:51
IdleOnezykotick9: I see. I am happy that there is an alternative out there that meets those standards.00:51
zykotick9IdleOne: ubuntu was a very cool experience for me!  especially running an ubuntu-hour for a while, i met a lot of very cool/interesting people because of it.00:52
IdleOneMy standards for choosing which OS I install is the type of people I am likely to meet while using the OS. Unfortunately in other communities I was unable to find the quality of people (I am happy with) to meet those standards00:53
zykotick9IdleOne: the reason i still frequent #ubuntu, is because of a genuine desire to "help" people with gnu/linux.  i'm most familiar with/the best help with DEB based releases, and #ubuntu has a seemingly never ending stream of new-gnu/linux-users00:54
IdleOneThe community appreciates the help you provide :)00:54
zykotick9IdleOne: differnt priorites ;).  i hear ya.00:54
IdleOneWe may not say it often enough though :/00:55
zykotick9IdleOne: no doubt!  "ubuntu has been the best community i have ever been apart of" ;)00:55
zykotick9IdleOne: i'm "sad" i feel (and should) outside that community now.00:56
IdleOnebecause you prefer to use debian or gentoo?00:57
zykotick9because i use debian.  i actually swithced from gentoo to ubuntu - very happy i did BTW.00:57
IdleOneYou don't have to use Ubuntu to be part of the community, it helps if you do to get your foot in, but like I said it is more than what OS you use. IMHO it is about a way of thinking, wanting to be a part of something that is bigger.00:58
zykotick9IdleOne: it's the "wanting to be a part of something that is bigger" that eventually drove me away from ubuntu01:00
IdleOneYou don't want to be a part of a larger family? in a sense that what The Ubuntu Community is.01:01
IdleOneI like knowing that no matter where I go in the world I can find someone who is a part of Ubuntu and that I would probably be welcomed into their home.01:02
zykotick9IdleOne: ubuntu is a family - but a dysfunctional one, with an over-domineering father (aka BDFL)01:02
zykotick9that is "cool" about the ubuntu family, it's worldlie-ness ;)01:03
IdleOneShow me a family without dysfunction and I'll show you a family with a really big closet01:03
zykotick9lol, sorry01:03
zykotick9IdleOne: honestly - to sumarize my current feelings about ubuntu.  ubuntu was #1 on distrowatch for years, as a user-friendly-debian.  since unity, now #3.01:04
IdleOneI don't agree with all the choices Mark has made but those choices are distro-centric and even if they do affect the Community, sometimes negatively, I don't believe mark ever makes any decision lightly01:05
zykotick9sebsebseb is probably smiling that mageia overtook ubuntu.  he's there community-leader or whatever...01:06
IdleOnebeing in 1st place on a download counter does not make it the best or most popular01:07
zykotick9agreed.  but ubuntu was #1 for years.01:07
IdleOneright, Canonical never pointed to distrowatch to tell the world "Look we are the best!"01:08
zykotick9the "change" is telling of ubuntu's popularity.01:08
IdleOnebtw sebsebseb was active in Ubuntu because he wanted to become "famous" He seeks out the acclaim, that doesn't work in our community. I would go as far as saying that we actively discourage people from trying to be stars.01:10
IdleOneWhen he saw that his positive work wasn't getting him up the ladder, he started being negative.01:11
IdleOneThis is my personal opinion btw. I am talking as IdleOne and not on behalf of Ubuntu or the Community.01:12
zykotick9IdleOne: you can speak to me honestly, i'm not going anywhere with the info ;)  sebsebseb doesn't impress me much (that wasn't really my point).  i was just commenting on a known prior-member, that moved on (i didn't really know any of the history you shared!)01:14
IdleOneI'm not concerned about what I say being read by anyone :)01:15
zykotick9IdleOne: "This is my personal opinion btw. I am talking as IdleOne and  not on behalf of Ubuntu or the Community.01:15
zykotick9isn't required with me!  swear to god (but i'm a non-believer)01:16
IdleOneThe history we share is what I saw from almost 7 years in this community. I saw him become a positive helper in #ubuntu and go to a very unhappy user who was only negative and almost a troll at the end.01:16
zykotick9of ubuntu people, you rang high on the list ;)01:16
zykotick9lol - i'm headed in the same direction! lol01:17
IdleOneWell, I hope not, it would be a shame to lose someone so helpful.01:18
zykotick9i do honestly with people wouldn't use ubuntu.  but it is the group of people i can help the most.  i don't mention my debian use as much as i can, 'cause i really do want to help people...01:18
IdleOnezykotick9: i think I ring high because I make a lot of noise :P01:20
zykotick9IdleOne: i don't consider you "noise" ;)  that what /ignore is for ;)01:21
IdleOneThanks :)01:21
=== FlannelKing is now known as Flannel

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