[00:40] <zykotick9> i think "ubuntu-bug <PACKAGE-NAME>" helps no one but canonical...  ubuntu is NOT a community distribution (even if it's had that "rap" for a while), ubuntu volunteers are unpaid canonical employees.
[00:41] <IdleOne> which is pretty much what any volunteer for any organization is.
[00:42] <IdleOne> our "payment" is the freedom to use the OS as we please
[00:43] <zykotick9> IdleOne: i doubt "most" volunteer orgainization take/or accept volunteer submissions for core "intellectual property" (i'm useing IP although i hate that word)
[00:44] <zykotick9> IdleOne: you are NOT "free" to use ubuntu as you please!  that is wrong.  ubuntu has a ton of non-free software.  sorry i gotta point this out - strongly.
[00:45] <zykotick9> IdleOne: ubuntu's changing/evolving stand on "free" software is very interesting actually...
[00:46] <IdleOne> You are free to remove the non-free software
[00:46] <IdleOne> nobody forces you to use it.
[00:47] <zykotick9> lol i use it by choice, and it's a personal failing ;)
[00:47] <IdleOne> I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe that any non-free software is installed default.
[00:47] <IdleOne> zykotick9: I also use some non-free software by choice :)
[00:47] <IdleOne> I'm just being devils advocate here
[00:47] <zykotick9> IdleOne: lol... you must be kidding.  drivers/ubuntuone/many more.
[00:48] <IdleOne> which drivers?
[00:48] <IdleOne> I'll give you ubuntuone :)
[00:48] <zykotick9> do you say ubuntu "comes" with nvidia/ati drivers?
[00:49] <IdleOne> it doesn't come with those drivers, it does come with the ability to install them.
[00:49] <zykotick9> IdleOne: nouveau for nvidia is "free"
[00:49] <IdleOne> the choice is left to the user to install or not.
[00:49] <zykotick9> nice - my requirement for an OS - is free and NON-FREE!
[00:49] <zykotick9> ubuntu doesn't meet that standard :(
[00:50] <IdleOne> I'm not sure I understand exactly what that standard is.
[00:51] <IdleOne> I do understand that the /Ubuntu Community/ is about more than the OS and what drivers it comes with.
[00:51] <zykotick9> IdleOne: my "requirement" that my OS, be either to be totally free/libre OR non-free.  debian and gentoo meet my requirement.
[00:51] <IdleOne> zykotick9: I see. I am happy that there is an alternative out there that meets those standards.
[00:52] <zykotick9> IdleOne: ubuntu was a very cool experience for me!  especially running an ubuntu-hour for a while, i met a lot of very cool/interesting people because of it.
[00:53] <IdleOne> My standards for choosing which OS I install is the type of people I am likely to meet while using the OS. Unfortunately in other communities I was unable to find the quality of people (I am happy with) to meet those standards
[00:54] <zykotick9> IdleOne: the reason i still frequent #ubuntu, is because of a genuine desire to "help" people with gnu/linux.  i'm most familiar with/the best help with DEB based releases, and #ubuntu has a seemingly never ending stream of new-gnu/linux-users
[00:54] <IdleOne> The community appreciates the help you provide :)
[00:54] <zykotick9> IdleOne: differnt priorites ;).  i hear ya.
[00:55] <IdleOne> We may not say it often enough though :/
[00:55] <zykotick9> IdleOne: no doubt!  "ubuntu has been the best community i have ever been apart of" ;)
[00:56] <zykotick9> IdleOne: i'm "sad" i feel (and should) outside that community now.
[00:57] <IdleOne> because you prefer to use debian or gentoo?
[00:57] <zykotick9> because i use debian.  i actually swithced from gentoo to ubuntu - very happy i did BTW.
[00:58] <IdleOne> You don't have to use Ubuntu to be part of the community, it helps if you do to get your foot in, but like I said it is more than what OS you use. IMHO it is about a way of thinking, wanting to be a part of something that is bigger.
[01:00] <zykotick9> IdleOne: it's the "wanting to be a part of something that is bigger" that eventually drove me away from ubuntu
[01:01] <IdleOne> You don't want to be a part of a larger family? in a sense that what The Ubuntu Community is.
[01:02] <IdleOne> I like knowing that no matter where I go in the world I can find someone who is a part of Ubuntu and that I would probably be welcomed into their home.
[01:02] <zykotick9> IdleOne: ubuntu is a family - but a dysfunctional one, with an over-domineering father (aka BDFL)
[01:03] <zykotick9> that is "cool" about the ubuntu family, it's worldlie-ness ;)
[01:03] <IdleOne> Show me a family without dysfunction and I'll show you a family with a really big closet
[01:03] <zykotick9> lol, sorry
[01:04] <zykotick9> IdleOne: honestly - to sumarize my current feelings about ubuntu.  ubuntu was #1 on distrowatch for years, as a user-friendly-debian.  since unity, now #3.
[01:05] <IdleOne> I don't agree with all the choices Mark has made but those choices are distro-centric and even if they do affect the Community, sometimes negatively, I don't believe mark ever makes any decision lightly
[01:06] <zykotick9> sebsebseb is probably smiling that mageia overtook ubuntu.  he's there community-leader or whatever...
[01:07] <IdleOne> being in 1st place on a download counter does not make it the best or most popular
[01:07] <zykotick9> agreed.  but ubuntu was #1 for years.
[01:08] <IdleOne> right, Canonical never pointed to distrowatch to tell the world "Look we are the best!"
[01:08] <zykotick9> the "change" is telling of ubuntu's popularity.
[01:10] <IdleOne> btw sebsebseb was active in Ubuntu because he wanted to become "famous" He seeks out the acclaim, that doesn't work in our community. I would go as far as saying that we actively discourage people from trying to be stars.
[01:11] <IdleOne> When he saw that his positive work wasn't getting him up the ladder, he started being negative.
[01:12] <IdleOne> This is my personal opinion btw. I am talking as IdleOne and not on behalf of Ubuntu or the Community.
[01:14] <zykotick9> IdleOne: you can speak to me honestly, i'm not going anywhere with the info ;)  sebsebseb doesn't impress me much (that wasn't really my point).  i was just commenting on a known prior-member, that moved on (i didn't really know any of the history you shared!)
[01:15] <IdleOne> I'm not concerned about what I say being read by anyone :)
[01:15] <zykotick9> IdleOne: "This is my personal opinion btw. I am talking as IdleOne and  not on behalf of Ubuntu or the Community.
[01:16] <zykotick9> isn't required with me!  swear to god (but i'm a non-believer)
[01:16] <IdleOne> The history we share is what I saw from almost 7 years in this community. I saw him become a positive helper in #ubuntu and go to a very unhappy user who was only negative and almost a troll at the end.
[01:16] <zykotick9> of ubuntu people, you rang high on the list ;)
[01:17] <zykotick9> lol - i'm headed in the same direction! lol
[01:18] <IdleOne> Well, I hope not, it would be a shame to lose someone so helpful.
[01:18] <zykotick9> i do honestly with people wouldn't use ubuntu.  but it is the group of people i can help the most.  i don't mention my debian use as much as i can, 'cause i really do want to help people...
[01:19] <zykotick9> s/with/wish/
[01:20] <IdleOne> zykotick9: i think I ring high because I make a lot of noise :P
[01:21] <zykotick9> IdleOne: i don't consider you "noise" ;)  that what /ignore is for ;)
[01:21] <IdleOne> Thanks :)
=== FlannelKing is now known as Flannel