=== FlannelKing is now known as Flannel
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satorisHi, how could I make sure this UIFe won't cause any problems for documentation screenshots (as described in the bug): https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/104965107:03
ubot2Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,Incomplete]07:03
mdke_satoris: you'll need to subscribe ~ubuntu-core-doc to the bug and ask them. Or contact jbicha who has done all the work on the screenshots this cycle07:11
mdke_knome: sure. I am rarely on irc so email is probably the simplest way. I can be around on irc at about 9pm London time today though, in case that fits your time zone07:12
mdke_sladen: I'm very rarely on irc nowadays so the best way to deal with freeze exceptions is to subscribe the docteam to the bug report or send an email to the mailing list07:13
mdke_knome: I will take a look at the branch later on. My initial reaction just to the layout is to put all the xml in one directory under "desktop-guide/C/", it will be simpler to manage that way, as it is all one document07:17
mdke_knome: I'll be out for the day now but catch up with you later07:18
satorismdke_: done, thanks.07:20
sladenmdke_: okaydokey.  ta.  jb replied08:29
knomemdke_, yeah, i'll make sure i'm around 9pm UTC.09:01
xnoxisHello =)09:15
xnoxphhhh... can't type =)09:15
xnoxIs this a place to check about User Interface Freeze Exception w.r.t. documentation screenshots?09:16
xnoxin particular bug 105204009:16
ubot2Launchpad bug 1052040 in ubiquity "[regression] ubiquity greeter does not have overlay scrollbars in quantal, but it did in precise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105204009:16
xnoxit has screenshots attached.09:16
xnoxI was not sure who e.g. does http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-desktop09:16
xnoxand if there is other documentation with quantal screenshots already09:17
popeyanyone around to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/1049651 ?10:19
ubot2Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,New]10:19
eagles0513875hey guys I have a question what is the difference between the server guide documentation and help.ubuntu.com documentation10:43
eagles0513875as I am noticing a big discrepancy on how to setup postfix and dovecot between the two documents10:43
eagles0513875anyone alive in here :(10:48
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cortmanWho is able to change community wiki page names?15:08
cortmanIs this a Canonical-only ability?15:08
popeycortman, which page?15:23
cortmanpopey, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeClassicTweaks15:24
popeycortman, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation?action=edit&editor=text15:25
popeycortman, does that work? (you need to login to edit)15:25
popeyoh, hang on, wrong page15:25
cortmanNo popey15:26
cortmanI meant rename the page15:26
popeyinteresting, cortman the rename option is greyed out for me too15:30
popeyi guess there's a team I am not in15:30
cortmanYeah- it'd be the administrators team I believe.15:30
bkerensajbicha: reviewing a bug for desktop team to ensure it wont conflict with out screenshots17:36
jbichabkerensa: thanks, removing features is easier for docs than adding them :)17:46
bkerensajbicha: I also didn't see any screenshot including the internet radio in the branch17:47
bkerensaso it should be fine17:47
=== cortman is now known as thewildhaggis
=== thewildhaggis is now known as cortman
=== cortman is now known as thewildhaggis
=== thewildhaggis is now known as cortman
knomemdke_, i'm ready. :)20:48
* pleia2 waves20:56
knomehallo pleia220:56
knomei actually hope we aren't late...20:56
pleia2it's not 21 yet :)20:56
knome"9pm london time"20:56
knomethat sounds like 1 hour ago20:57
knome(yeah, i just noticed)20:57
knomeduh. i'll just handle it over email if he's not around :)20:57
knomehehe. that's life...20:57
bkerensaknome: what did you need?21:15
bkerensajbicha: are we squared away mostly or do you have any work items we need finishing?21:15
knomebkerensa, looking at the xubuntu docs, i don't know what mdke had in mind21:15
knomebkerensa, i saw you looked at the docs - thanks - and i've now fixed the build errors21:15
bkerensawhich branch was this again? remind me?21:16
bkerensaso I can pull it and have a look21:16
knomelet me check, rocket2dmn pushed it to a new location21:16
knomebkerensa, what's your email, i could fw you a mail21:16
knomebkerensa, obviously trying to get this done and uploaded by thursday21:18
bkerensayeah before freeze21:18
bkerensajbicha: can you create a new quantal branch for them?21:19
bkerensaSo they dont hit the freeze wall21:19
bkerensaknome: What time was mdke supposed to meet with you guys on IRC?21:20
jbichaknome: hopefully rocket2dman will be able to review the new docs for you21:20
knomebkerensa, 9pm london time, so over hour ago21:20
jbichaif it becomes a blocker on Thursday, I might be able to push it for you but I don't have much experience with docbook21:20
knomejbicha, can you elaborate what you are referring to "reviewing" here? i'm totally new to docs stuff21:21
knomethe docbook stuff should be ok, there's no errors etc.21:21
knomethe only thing i don't know about is the translations and how the package creating magic happens21:21
jbichaknome: no one from xubuntu has commit access to those branches, right? someone from Docs needs to merge them? that's what I mean21:21
knomejbicha, i believe that's true21:21
bkerensajbicha: at some point it might be helpful to  add me for reviews so I can merge stuff since we are understaffed21:22
knomejbicha, for R, i'm totally willing to take the workload for xubuntu if you wish21:22
bkerensaknome: we just review your MP's to ensure they are sane and if they are then they get merged and eventually you guys should have a commiter21:23
knomebkerensa, sounds fair21:23
knomethis one is a complete rewrite, so i don't know how much it makes sense to look at diffs at least21:24
jbichabkerensa: how much experience do you have with either docbook or Mallard?21:24
knomei truly believe i've well enough familiar with docbook, but the translations/building is hebrew for me21:24
bkerensajbicha: I am familiar with docbook not so much with mallard21:25
bkerensajbicha: I am looking over their MP right now21:27
jbichabkerensa: so for commit access, we're looking for multiple, good merge patches or MPs from you to the Ubuntu documentation21:27
jbichaif you have that, you're welcome to apply for commit access on the mailing list21:28
bkerensajbicha: are there even any candidates work items to submit patches for atm?21:28
bkerensacandidate* work items21:28
jbichamy list from precise is mostly still undone21:29
jbichaUnity documentation in general is very lacking in ubuntu-docs21:29
jbichaeven proofreading the docs (whether for ubuntu, ubuntu server, kubuntu, etc) and submitting fixes to readability or updates to reflect current features are very welcome21:30
knomejust a note that there's no sense to proofread xubuntu on precise... we will have to look for a possible update for a later point release21:31
jbichaprecise in general is not a good candidate as documentation SRUs are rather painful21:33
bkerensajbicha: can you remind me the precise list21:33
jbichaI need to update this, but this was my precise todo list: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo21:33
* knome is drumming the table anxiously21:54
bkerensaknome: so basically jbicha will review if he has time before Thursday22:02
knomeif not?22:02
knomeis there anything i can make to speed up this process?22:03
jbichaif not, then we let the Release Team we're going to need a Documentation Freeze Exception22:04
bkerensaknome: likely not there is really only one or two people who review things and jbicha is one of them but they have a lot of other projects and have to complete ubuntu-doc itself22:05
knomeok. if mdke has time, can he do the review too?22:05
bkerensajbicha: fyi I just submitted a MP for ubuntu-doc22:05
bkerensaknome: ^ He could but the liklihood is slim22:05
knomebkerensa, i know, and i'm sorry we're this late, but we literally rewrote the whole docs from scratch this cycle22:05
bkerensaknome: no worries22:06
mdke_knome: really sorry about earlier22:06
knomemdke_, oh, no problem.22:06
mdke_thanks to jbicha for emailing me22:06
* mdke_ reading scrollback22:07
jbichaI figured you might not be on IRC at the moment but maybe you were still checking email :)22:07
mdke_email makes a noise on my phone yeah. Man I suck22:07
knomei'd never let that happen :)22:08
mdke_ok, so what's the issue22:08
knomewell, you got the mail22:08
knomewe want our docs reviewed and uploaded22:08
knomei have personally two main concerns:22:08
knomehow are the translations going to work?22:08
bkerensaknome: there you go ^22:08
bkerensasee busy people :)22:08
knomeand; how is the packaging going to work?22:08
knomebkerensa, heh, yeah, thanks ;)22:09
knomei think we're ok with docbook; it all validates now without errors22:09
mdke_knome: your first objective must be the packaging side, as that will allow the package to be uploaded in time for the freeze22:09
mdke_the translation will be pretty easy and I can take care of it22:10
knomeok, i have no idea about packaging in general, and i have no permissions to push anywhere.22:10
mdke_ubuntu-docs uses the gnome build system, but I would imagine that for xubuntu-docs that will not be appropriate to have gnome dependencies.22:10
mdke_so we should use the packaging system from the historical xubuntu-docs for simplicity22:11
mdke_have you figured out how users will view the documentation?22:11
knomeyeah, that sounds good (we're also tight on space, so...)22:11
knomethey'll view the docs in a browser, as html files22:11
mdke_ok, good22:12
mdke_I'll take a look at the packaging tomorrow and see what I can do22:12
knomecan i do something before that?22:12
jbichaknome: doesn't xubuntu also already have yelp installed?22:12
knomejbicha, probably, but this is actually all built to work with a browser22:13
jbichaoh ok, it's an option in the future then22:13
mdke_jbicha: if we try to use yelp there could be an issue about how to point it at the right document which could be complex I guess22:13
knomeyeah, for Q i just want to get it in22:13
jbichaand if you're using yelp, you could even switch to Mallard22:13
jbichaI get a commission for every new Mallard user I sign up :)22:13
knomei've heard not all of our stuff even works in yelp22:13
knome(some inline icons missing)22:14
knomereally don't want to hassle with that...22:14
jbichayeah, too late to be fighting with new shiny22:14
mdke_I'm not sure there is anything that you can do in the meantime22:14
knomeand honestly i don't know how much sense it would make to convert the docs AGAIN22:14
knomemdke_, ok, i'll just anxiously wait :)22:14
mdke_hopefully not too many changes will be required to the package system22:15
knomemdke_, do you have any idea what time would you get into it? i can try to be on irc at that time22:15
mdke_one thing I did notice was that you have a lot of files in different directories22:15
mdke_I think we should simplify that by putting them in one directory, as they are all part of one document22:15
knomeyeah, that's what we had before, so i didn't mess up with that22:15
mdke_ah, I see22:15
mdke_perhaps leaving that will minimise the packaging changes required then, so I'll dig a little deeper22:15
mdke_I'll be working on it in the evening London time22:16
mdke_but this time I won't forget22:16
knomeok, we have a community meeting at 15UTC, and before or after that is great22:16
knome(during is ok too, but a bit distressing)22:17
mdke_if we need a little flexibility in relation to the freeze, I imagine that won't be too problematic, since it is important to get this in, and I don't believe that xubuntu-docs has had any translations in the last few releases, so anything we can do is basically an improvement22:17
mdke_knome: it will definitely be after your meeting22:18
knomehah, you say translations? it hasn't had much love after natty anyway22:18
mdke_in terms of getting it uploaded, I don't know if I have upload rights for that22:18
knome(mostly just updating the version numbers)22:18
mdke_anyhow we will find someone to do the upload if needs be22:19
knomesounds good :)22:19
mdke_sorry again for the hassle this evening22:19
knomenp really22:20
knomethanks for taking care of it22:20
mdke_that's ok, I haven't done anything this cycle so it may be a way to get me back into a little Ubuntu work22:20
knomeheh, that's good too then22:20
mdke_ok, I'll see you tomorrow, thanks for all the huge work on xubuntu-docs22:21
knomenp, see you :)22:21
jbichaknome: do you have upload rights for the xubuntu-docs package?22:21
knomejbicha, i'm most certain i don't22:21
mdke_I might, but can't remember22:21
knomejbicha, unless being on ~xubuntu-doc warrants that :P22:21
jbichaknome: I'm a MOTU so I could upload it if mdke can't22:21
mdke_oh awesome22:21
knomejbicha, <322:21
jbichamdke_: I'm going to poke you Thursday night or Friday for an ubuntu-docs upload since I don't have rights for that22:22
mdke_ok, I've found the email - i don't have xubuntu-docs upload rights. Only ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs22:23
knomemdke_, do you know who gives those permissions?22:23
mdke_jbicha: fine by me. Thanks also to you for working on everything single handedly22:23
mdke_knome: I'm a little out of date on procedures, in my day it was the TB. Now I suspect there is a different board that does it22:23
mdke_it's tough to keep up with all these boards22:24
jbichaknome: yeah, it's still the Tech Board22:24
jbichaoh, no wait, it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard22:24
mdke_ok, I don't feel so bad now22:25
mdke_ok, night all22:25
knomenight mdke_ and thanks!22:25
jbichaknome: you already have rights to upload xubuntu stuff?22:25
knomejbicha, i don't, i'm not a developer22:25
knomei mean, in the "traditional" meaning22:25
jbichaoh, well I guess you could apply either for xubuntu-dev or for PPU (per-package-uploader) for the stuff you do upload22:27
knomewell, we seem to have people in the DMB and people who have upload rights to xubuntu-doc too :P22:28
shaunmjbicha: come on, work for that commission!22:38
jbichashaunm: I actually did some local docs mentoring yesterday, maybe she'll be a future Docs Team member22:41
jbichaI've also tried teaching my wife but she runs away whenever she sees something that looks anything like code22:42
shaunmjbicha: then you want my visual mallard editor23:01
jbichamy wife was asking for that yesterday, I said it was mythical23:02
jbichais it alpha yet?23:03
shaunmyou can't argue with screenshots. screenshots are *never* fake. ;-)23:03
shaunmno, it's in the crappy prototype stage. not even useful for a simple page23:04
jbichait'll be a webapp?23:04
shaunmthe editor component ought to be sufficiently reusable that we could stick it in a webkit web view and wrap it up with some gtk widgets23:06
jbichaI guess my question was whether it would be exclusively web23:09

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