[07:03] <satoris> Hi, how could I make sure this UIFe won't cause any problems for documentation screenshots (as described in the bug): https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/1049651
[07:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[07:11] <mdke_> satoris: you'll need to subscribe ~ubuntu-core-doc to the bug and ask them. Or contact jbicha who has done all the work on the screenshots this cycle
[07:12] <mdke_> knome: sure. I am rarely on irc so email is probably the simplest way. I can be around on irc at about 9pm London time today though, in case that fits your time zone
[07:13] <mdke_> sladen: I'm very rarely on irc nowadays so the best way to deal with freeze exceptions is to subscribe the docteam to the bug report or send an email to the mailing list
[07:17] <mdke_> knome: I will take a look at the branch later on. My initial reaction just to the layout is to put all the xml in one directory under "desktop-guide/C/", it will be simpler to manage that way, as it is all one document
[07:18] <mdke_> knome: I'll be out for the day now but catch up with you later
[07:20] <satoris> mdke_: done, thanks.
[08:29] <sladen> mdke_: okaydokey.  ta.  jb replied
[09:01] <knome> mdke_, yeah, i'll make sure i'm around 9pm UTC.
[09:15] <xnox> isHello =)
[09:15] <xnox> phhhh... can't type =)
[09:16] <knome> ;)
[09:16] <xnox> Is this a place to check about User Interface Freeze Exception w.r.t. documentation screenshots?
[09:16] <xnox> in particular bug 1052040
[09:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1052040 in ubiquity "[regression] ubiquity greeter does not have overlay scrollbars in quantal, but it did in precise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052040
[09:16] <xnox> it has screenshots attached.
[09:16] <xnox> I was not sure who e.g. does http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-desktop
[09:17] <xnox> and if there is other documentation with quantal screenshots already
[10:19] <popey> anyone around to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/1049651 ?
[10:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,New]
[10:43] <eagles0513875> hey guys I have a question what is the difference between the server guide documentation and help.ubuntu.com documentation
[10:43] <eagles0513875> as I am noticing a big discrepancy on how to setup postfix and dovecot between the two documents
[10:48] <eagles0513875> anyone alive in here :(
[15:08] <cortman> Who is able to change community wiki page names?
[15:08] <cortman> Is this a Canonical-only ability?
[15:23] <popey> cortman, which page?
[15:24] <cortman> popey, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeClassicTweaks
[15:25] <popey> cortman, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation?action=edit&editor=text
[15:25] <popey> cortman, does that work? (you need to login to edit)
[15:25] <popey> oh, hang on, wrong page
[15:25] <popey> duh
[15:26] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeClassicTweaks?action=edit&editor=text
[15:26] <cortman> No popey
[15:26] <cortman> I meant rename the page
[15:26] <cortman> sorry
[15:30] <popey> interesting, cortman the rename option is greyed out for me too
[15:30] <popey> i guess there's a team I am not in
[15:30] <cortman> Yeah- it'd be the administrators team I believe.
[17:36] <bkerensa> jbicha: reviewing a bug for desktop team to ensure it wont conflict with out screenshots
[17:46] <jbicha> bkerensa: thanks, removing features is easier for docs than adding them :)
[17:47] <bkerensa> jbicha: I also didn't see any screenshot including the internet radio in the branch
[17:47] <bkerensa> so it should be fine
[17:50] <jbicha> yes
[20:48] <knome> mdke_, i'm ready. :)
[20:56]  * pleia2 waves
[20:56] <knome> hallo pleia2
[20:56] <knome> i actually hope we aren't late...
[20:56] <pleia2> it's not 21 yet :)
[20:56] <knome> "9pm london time"
[20:57] <knome> that sounds like 1 hour ago
[20:57] <knome> (yeah, i just noticed)
[20:57] <knome> duh. i'll just handle it over email if he's not around :)
[20:57] <pleia2> doh
[20:57] <knome> hehe. that's life...
[21:15] <bkerensa> knome: what did you need?
[21:15] <bkerensa> jbicha: are we squared away mostly or do you have any work items we need finishing?
[21:15] <knome> bkerensa, looking at the xubuntu docs, i don't know what mdke had in mind
[21:15] <knome> bkerensa, i saw you looked at the docs - thanks - and i've now fixed the build errors
[21:15] <bkerensa> ok
[21:16] <bkerensa> which branch was this again? remind me?
[21:16] <bkerensa> so I can pull it and have a look
[21:16] <knome> let me check, rocket2dmn pushed it to a new location
[21:16] <knome> bkerensa, what's your email, i could fw you a mail
[21:17] <bkerensa> bkerensa@ubuntu.com
[21:17] <knome> sent
[21:18] <knome> bkerensa, obviously trying to get this done and uploaded by thursday
[21:18] <bkerensa> oh
[21:18] <bkerensa> yeah before freeze
[21:18] <knome> yep
[21:19] <bkerensa> jbicha: can you create a new quantal branch for them?
[21:19] <bkerensa> So they dont hit the freeze wall
[21:20] <bkerensa> knome: What time was mdke supposed to meet with you guys on IRC?
[21:20] <jbicha> knome: hopefully rocket2dman will be able to review the new docs for you
[21:20] <knome> bkerensa, 9pm london time, so over hour ago
[21:20] <jbicha> if it becomes a blocker on Thursday, I might be able to push it for you but I don't have much experience with docbook
[21:21] <knome> jbicha, can you elaborate what you are referring to "reviewing" here? i'm totally new to docs stuff
[21:21] <knome> the docbook stuff should be ok, there's no errors etc.
[21:21] <knome> the only thing i don't know about is the translations and how the package creating magic happens
[21:21] <jbicha> knome: no one from xubuntu has commit access to those branches, right? someone from Docs needs to merge them? that's what I mean
[21:21] <knome> jbicha, i believe that's true
[21:22] <bkerensa> jbicha: at some point it might be helpful to  add me for reviews so I can merge stuff since we are understaffed
[21:22] <knome> jbicha, for R, i'm totally willing to take the workload for xubuntu if you wish
[21:23] <bkerensa> knome: we just review your MP's to ensure they are sane and if they are then they get merged and eventually you guys should have a commiter
[21:23] <knome> bkerensa, sounds fair
[21:24] <knome> this one is a complete rewrite, so i don't know how much it makes sense to look at diffs at least
[21:24] <jbicha> bkerensa: how much experience do you have with either docbook or Mallard?
[21:24] <knome> i truly believe i've well enough familiar with docbook, but the translations/building is hebrew for me
[21:25] <bkerensa> jbicha: I am familiar with docbook not so much with mallard
[21:27] <bkerensa> jbicha: I am looking over their MP right now
[21:27] <jbicha> bkerensa: so for commit access, we're looking for multiple, good merge patches or MPs from you to the Ubuntu documentation
[21:28] <jbicha> if you have that, you're welcome to apply for commit access on the mailing list
[21:28] <bkerensa> jbicha: are there even any candidates work items to submit patches for atm?
[21:28] <bkerensa> candidate* work items
[21:29] <jbicha> my list from precise is mostly still undone
[21:29] <jbicha> Unity documentation in general is very lacking in ubuntu-docs
[21:30] <jbicha> even proofreading the docs (whether for ubuntu, ubuntu server, kubuntu, etc) and submitting fixes to readability or updates to reflect current features are very welcome
[21:31] <knome> just a note that there's no sense to proofread xubuntu on precise... we will have to look for a possible update for a later point release
[21:33] <jbicha> precise in general is not a good candidate as documentation SRUs are rather painful
[21:33] <bkerensa> jbicha: can you remind me the precise list
[21:33] <jbicha> I need to update this, but this was my precise todo list: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo
[21:54]  * knome is drumming the table anxiously
[22:02] <bkerensa> knome: so basically jbicha will review if he has time before Thursday
[22:02] <knome> if not?
[22:03] <knome> is there anything i can make to speed up this process?
[22:04] <jbicha> if not, then we let the Release Team we're going to need a Documentation Freeze Exception
[22:05] <bkerensa> knome: likely not there is really only one or two people who review things and jbicha is one of them but they have a lot of other projects and have to complete ubuntu-doc itself
[22:05] <knome> ok. if mdke has time, can he do the review too?
[22:05] <bkerensa> jbicha: fyi I just submitted a MP for ubuntu-doc
[22:05] <bkerensa> ttyl
[22:05] <bkerensa> knome: ^ He could but the liklihood is slim
[22:05] <knome> bkerensa, i know, and i'm sorry we're this late, but we literally rewrote the whole docs from scratch this cycle
[22:06] <bkerensa> knome: no worries
[22:06] <knome> thanks
[22:06] <mdke_> knome: really sorry about earlier
[22:06] <knome> mdke_, oh, no problem.
[22:06] <knome> :)
[22:06] <mdke_> thanks to jbicha for emailing me
[22:07]  * mdke_ reading scrollback
[22:07] <jbicha> I figured you might not be on IRC at the moment but maybe you were still checking email :)
[22:07] <mdke_> email makes a noise on my phone yeah. Man I suck
[22:07] <knome> lol
[22:08] <knome> i'd never let that happen :)
[22:08] <mdke_> ok, so what's the issue
[22:08] <knome> well, you got the mail
[22:08] <knome> we want our docs reviewed and uploaded
[22:08] <knome> i have personally two main concerns:
[22:08] <knome> how are the translations going to work?
[22:08] <bkerensa> knome: there you go ^
[22:08] <bkerensa> see busy people :)
[22:08] <knome> and; how is the packaging going to work?
[22:09] <mdke_> ok
[22:09] <knome> bkerensa, heh, yeah, thanks ;)
[22:09] <knome> i think we're ok with docbook; it all validates now without errors
[22:09] <mdke_> knome: your first objective must be the packaging side, as that will allow the package to be uploaded in time for the freeze
[22:10] <mdke_> the translation will be pretty easy and I can take care of it
[22:10] <knome> ok, i have no idea about packaging in general, and i have no permissions to push anywhere.
[22:10] <mdke_> ubuntu-docs uses the gnome build system, but I would imagine that for xubuntu-docs that will not be appropriate to have gnome dependencies.
[22:11] <mdke_> so we should use the packaging system from the historical xubuntu-docs for simplicity
[22:11] <mdke_> have you figured out how users will view the documentation?
[22:11] <knome> yeah, that sounds good (we're also tight on space, so...)
[22:11] <knome> they'll view the docs in a browser, as html files
[22:12] <mdke_> ok, good
[22:12] <mdke_> I'll take a look at the packaging tomorrow and see what I can do
[22:12] <knome> thanks
[22:12] <knome> can i do something before that?
[22:12] <jbicha> knome: doesn't xubuntu also already have yelp installed?
[22:13] <knome> jbicha, probably, but this is actually all built to work with a browser
[22:13] <knome> s/probably/yes/
[22:13] <jbicha> oh ok, it's an option in the future then
[22:13] <mdke_> jbicha: if we try to use yelp there could be an issue about how to point it at the right document which could be complex I guess
[22:13] <knome> yeah, for Q i just want to get it in
[22:13] <jbicha> and if you're using yelp, you could even switch to Mallard
[22:13] <jbicha> I get a commission for every new Mallard user I sign up :)
[22:13] <knome> i've heard not all of our stuff even works in yelp
[22:14] <knome> (some inline icons missing)
[22:14] <knome> really don't want to hassle with that...
[22:14] <jbicha> yeah, too late to be fighting with new shiny
[22:14] <mdke_> I'm not sure there is anything that you can do in the meantime
[22:14] <knome> and honestly i don't know how much sense it would make to convert the docs AGAIN
[22:14] <knome> mdke_, ok, i'll just anxiously wait :)
[22:15] <mdke_> hopefully not too many changes will be required to the package system
[22:15] <knome> mdke_, do you have any idea what time would you get into it? i can try to be on irc at that time
[22:15] <mdke_> one thing I did notice was that you have a lot of files in different directories
[22:15] <mdke_> I think we should simplify that by putting them in one directory, as they are all part of one document
[22:15] <knome> yeah, that's what we had before, so i didn't mess up with that
[22:15] <mdke_> ah, I see
[22:15] <mdke_> perhaps leaving that will minimise the packaging changes required then, so I'll dig a little deeper
[22:16] <knome> mm-hmm
[22:16] <mdke_> I'll be working on it in the evening London time
[22:16] <mdke_> but this time I won't forget
[22:16] <knome> ok, we have a community meeting at 15UTC, and before or after that is great
[22:17] <knome> (during is ok too, but a bit distressing)
[22:17] <mdke_> if we need a little flexibility in relation to the freeze, I imagine that won't be too problematic, since it is important to get this in, and I don't believe that xubuntu-docs has had any translations in the last few releases, so anything we can do is basically an improvement
[22:18] <mdke_> knome: it will definitely be after your meeting
[22:18] <knome> hah, you say translations? it hasn't had much love after natty anyway
[22:18] <mdke_> in terms of getting it uploaded, I don't know if I have upload rights for that
[22:18] <knome> (mostly just updating the version numbers)
[22:18] <mdke_> right
[22:19] <mdke_> anyhow we will find someone to do the upload if needs be
[22:19] <knome> sounds good :)
[22:19] <mdke_> sorry again for the hassle this evening
[22:20] <knome> np really
[22:20] <knome> thanks for taking care of it
[22:20] <mdke_> that's ok, I haven't done anything this cycle so it may be a way to get me back into a little Ubuntu work
[22:20] <knome> heh, that's good too then
[22:21] <mdke_> ok, I'll see you tomorrow, thanks for all the huge work on xubuntu-docs
[22:21] <knome> np, see you :)
[22:21] <jbicha> knome: do you have upload rights for the xubuntu-docs package?
[22:21] <knome> jbicha, i'm most certain i don't
[22:21] <mdke_> I might, but can't remember
[22:21] <knome> jbicha, unless being on ~xubuntu-doc warrants that :P
[22:21] <jbicha> knome: I'm a MOTU so I could upload it if mdke can't
[22:21] <mdke_> oh awesome
[22:21] <knome> jbicha, <3
[22:22] <jbicha> mdke_: I'm going to poke you Thursday night or Friday for an ubuntu-docs upload since I don't have rights for that
[22:23] <mdke_> ok, I've found the email - i don't have xubuntu-docs upload rights. Only ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs
[22:23] <knome> mdke_, do you know who gives those permissions?
[22:23] <mdke_> jbicha: fine by me. Thanks also to you for working on everything single handedly
[22:23] <mdke_> knome: I'm a little out of date on procedures, in my day it was the TB. Now I suspect there is a different board that does it
[22:24] <mdke_> it's tough to keep up with all these boards
[22:24] <jbicha> knome: yeah, it's still the Tech Board
[22:24] <jbicha> oh, no wait, it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
[22:24] <knome> heh.
[22:24] <mdke_> hah!
[22:25] <mdke_> ok, I don't feel so bad now
[22:25] <mdke_> ok, night all
[22:25] <knome> night mdke_ and thanks!
[22:25] <jbicha> knome: you already have rights to upload xubuntu stuff?
[22:25] <knome> jbicha, i don't, i'm not a developer
[22:25] <knome> i mean, in the "traditional" meaning
[22:27] <jbicha> oh, well I guess you could apply either for xubuntu-dev or for PPU (per-package-uploader) for the stuff you do upload
[22:28] <knome> well, we seem to have people in the DMB and people who have upload rights to xubuntu-doc too :P
[22:38] <shaunm> jbicha: come on, work for that commission!
[22:41] <jbicha> shaunm: I actually did some local docs mentoring yesterday, maybe she'll be a future Docs Team member
[22:42] <jbicha> I've also tried teaching my wife but she runs away whenever she sees something that looks anything like code
[23:01] <shaunm> jbicha: then you want my visual mallard editor
[23:02] <jbicha> my wife was asking for that yesterday, I said it was mythical
[23:03] <jbicha> is it alpha yet?
[23:03] <shaunm> http://i.imgur.com/Xa30C.png
[23:03] <shaunm> you can't argue with screenshots. screenshots are *never* fake. ;-)
[23:04] <shaunm> no, it's in the crappy prototype stage. not even useful for a simple page
[23:04] <jbicha> it'll be a webapp?
[23:04] <shaunm> yes-ish
[23:06] <shaunm> the editor component ought to be sufficiently reusable that we could stick it in a webkit web view and wrap it up with some gtk widgets
[23:09] <jbicha> I guess my question was whether it would be exclusively web