=== rsalveti` is now known as rsalveti
=== zz_chihchun is now known as chihchun
mnainesAny idea if Ubuntu TV will be available to home users like myself and how much it will cost?03:58
mnainesHello, tbf06:00
tbfmnaines, hi06:04
mnainestbf, I would like to know more about Ubuntu TV...Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content service like what Cable providers offer?06:05
tbfmnaines, so far i'd also have to speculate06:07
tbfmnaines, you better ask jhodapp, willcooke, or Saviq06:08
mnainestbf, from what little I gathered on the website, it is being marketed as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers06:08
tbfmnaines, yup.06:09
mnainesIt makes me wonder if it is something to do with the whole "TV through your computer" idea06:09
tbfmnaines, in the end the plan seems to be to get ubuntu on setup boxes or even tvs06:09
tbfapparently with a highly(?) customized version of unity06:10
mnainestbf, yes, although it would be easier just to provide end-users with a method of using their existing Ubuntu install to view TV content over the internet06:11
tbfmnaines, as i understand jhodapp the plan is to provide all ubuntu tv components for the desktop version of ubuntu06:12
mnainestbf, those of us with shared TVs don't always get the premium channels on the shared TVs...Time Warner doesn't let my family have all the premium channels on every TV in the house06:12
tbfmnaines, sounds like a nice job for something like rygel...06:13
mnainesWe would need a separate box for each TV to do that.  That is why I am curious as to what Ubuntu TV really is.06:13
tbfmnaines: in the sense that rygel grabs your tv card's decrypted stream and distributes it via DLNA06:14
tbfmnaines, guess the best way to figure out would be attending UDS, but the way you talk about time warner i fear copenhagen is a bit distant06:14
mnainestbf, I live in what is considered the heart of America06:15
tbfmnaines: kansas!06:15
mnainesTo most Americans, "Copenhagen" is a brand of chewing tobacco06:15
tbfmnaines, nah... don't talk about the viking's lovely capital like that :-D06:16
mnainestbf, ask any American if they know who the mayor of their town is and all you'll get are blank stares or the always-fascinating "Wha?" reaction06:17
mnainesNearly half of all Americans can't even pass America's citizenship exams06:17
tbfwha... good that you elect the mayor directly in my town.06:18
tbfleads to unexpected coalitions among parties if the mayor is well respected :-D06:19
mnainesOh, I bet city council meetings are as fun as MMA sessions...lol06:19
tbfwell. and interestingly also forces the mayor to remember well whom he serves06:19
tbfoh... and actually the really seem to be heated sometimes :-)06:21
mnainestbf, on a more serious note, being able to watch full-content TV on my computer is something I've actually been wanting since I started working with computers06:21
mnainesEspecially now that my laptop comes equipped with a GPU that can run full 720p HD and not even break a sweat06:22
tbfmnaines, i believe we'll get close to that next year06:23
tbfmnaines, still might be useful to ask for that use case on the mailing list06:23
mnainesAMD A8-3500M, a 1.5GHz quad-core CPU with an integrated Radeon HD 6620G.  Youtube, Avatar movie trailer, full 1080p HD...Only 18% utilization across all four cores06:24
tbfhelps to argue on what to spent resources (hint ;-))06:24
tbfwell, but at least in my (very personal) pov, ubuntu tv should just get full dlna support...06:25
mnainesAND, it easily, and I do mean quite literally very easily, outperforms Intel06:25
tbf...so that you can share your media library, and (like you suggest) or pay tv streams06:25
mnainesIntel's most powerful laptop CPU, the Core i7-2820QM06:25
mnainesSide by side, these Llanos will flat-out destroy any of Intel's Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs in raw power06:26
tbfentirely lost overview regarding CPUs and GPUs06:27
mnainesFor general-purpose computing, they all but hold their own against Intel's most powerful Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge laptop CPUs...For 3D graphics processing, its no contest.  The Llanos win every time06:27
tbfcompared to what i've started with, everything you can buy today is more than fast enough06:27
tbfheavy monsters.06:27
mnainesFour Phenom-class CPU cores, a full power-gated Radeon chipset and a very efficient DDR3 memory controller, all on one chip06:28
mnainesCan completely power down the entire Radeon chipset and each individual CPU core as needed or can divert some of the Radeon cores' processing power to data processing, boosting runtime performance by as much as 30%06:30
mnainesCombine that with AMD's Turbo Core feature and the lowest power consumption of any CPU on the market (just shy of 40W at full load compared to 180W at full load for an Intel Core i7-2820QM)06:31
mnainestbf, Dirt 3, 4x Antialiasing, Medium quality graphics, the AMD A8-3500M held its own, clocking consistent framerates in the 30 to 35 frames per second range, while the Core i7-2820QM was completely unplayable06:34
tbfmnaines: seriously, no idea. that rarely i find time for games, i just turn on my aging wii...06:35
tbf...just to realize that my reflexes aren't anymore what they used to be06:35
tbfso for laptop and desktop gpus really everything i can buy today is fast enough06:36
mnainestbf, I have an AMD A8-3500M in my laptop, which currently runs Ubuntu Studio, and so far I haven't found anything on Ubuntu that can stress-test these Llano APUs06:36
tbfmore concerned about flawless operation, than about performance when it comes to gpus06:36
mnainesAnd as far as reliability, this laptop runs 24/7 and doesn't complain...I could sit playing Crysis 2 all day long with zero crashes06:37
mnainesI never worry about hardware-related crashes...Any crashes are generally due to my D-Link router saying "wtf" after I start gaming or some flaw within the game that causes the game to lock up if I play too long06:39
mnainesIf I'm just doing basic, general-purpose stuff like web browsing, email, IM, IRC, and the like, I have zero issues with reliability and can actually leave the laptop running 24/7 and it won't complain one bit06:40
mnainestbf, on a more serious note, do you have any idea who all is awake right now?06:43
mnainesHello, tsdgeos07:11
mnainestsdgeos, do you know if Ubuntu TV is a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like the cable companies offer?07:15
tsdgeoshttp://www.ubuntu.com/tv has all the official available information as far as i know07:17
mnainesWhich doesn't tell me much at all.07:18
mnainesThey are marketing it as a bridge between TV manufacturers and content providers, but it leaves me wondering if its just another set-top box or if its integrated into Ubuntu itself07:19
mnainesSaviq, just the person I was looking for07:27
=== mnaines_ is now known as mnaines
mnainesWhat exactly is Ubuntu TV?  Is it a streaming service like what Netflix offers or is it a full-content broadcast service like what the cable companies offer?07:50
Saviqmnaines, first of all, it's considered rude to PM people without asking them first07:53
Saviqmnaines, and no, Ubuntu TV isn't a streaming service, it's software for building a TV receiver / STB with capabilities to integrate streaming services07:54
mnainesIs it going to be available to home users or just to content providers?07:55
Saviqmnaines, everything that's possible will also be available in stock Ubuntu08:00
mnainesSaviq, so I would be able to watch the same TV channels I get from my cable company on Ubuntu itself?08:01
Saviqmnaines, that depends on oh so many factors08:01
mnainesBut it is possible at this point?08:01
Saviqnot with Ubuntu TV, no08:01
Saviqbut with Ubuntu and some additional software - yes, provided you can get conditional access working08:02
mnaines"conditional access"?08:03
Saviqmnaines, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access08:03
mnainesLooks to be DCAS-linked stuff...08:05
mnainesInteresting...If I am understanding this whole thing right, Ubuntu TV is actually designed to be more like a DCAS system08:08
mnainesDownloadable Content Access System08:09
mnainesBasically devices that allow customers to legally view digital content without having to rent equipment from the cable companies, per an FCC mandate back in 200708:10
mnainesDownloadable Conditional Access System or DCAS is a proposal advanced by CableLabs for secure software download of a specific Conditional Access client (computer program) which controls digital rights management (DRM) into an OCAP-compliant host consumer media device.08:12
Saviqmnaines, so DRM you can't expect to be integrated with Ubuntu on the desktop, that's probably just not gonna happen08:14
mnainesIf I am understanding the Ubuntu TV website correctly, the whole thing is set up in a similar way to how Apple set up its stuff, to seamlessly integrate and communicate with other devices, sharing content between the devices but still keeping the devices separate from each other08:16
Saviqmnaines, yes, local network integration is at the core08:17
mnainesSo in order for Ubuntu TV to work, I would have to download it to a set-top box?08:18
Saviqmnaines, for embedded devices you would probably have to get a preinstalled device08:19
Saviqwhether a TV with UbuntuTV in it or a STB08:20
mnainesThose aren't cheap08:20
mnainesAnd the way things are set up at my house, only one TV has a set-top box.  All the other TVs don't have boxes and so only get the basic channels08:21
Saviqmnaines, a) there's no way you can download software on the STB08:21
Saviqb) there's no saying what hardware is there - it's not as easy as it is in PCs08:22
mnainesSo there's no way for me to get full-content TV without a box?08:23
Saviqthere's nothing UbuntuTV can change in that market08:23
Saviqpeople want to protect their content, hence they need total control over the device08:24
Saviqif you only want non-protected content then things like "HDMI dongles" will probably be the cheapest way to get Ubuntu on them08:25
Saviqyou would still be able to use the Ubuntu TV interface08:25
Saviqbut wouldn't be able to use any protected content, be it streamed or over-the-air08:26
mnainesAll I know is when Time Warner set up the cable lines inside my house, they spliced everything so the TV in my room was hooked up to the cable TV connection that was shared with the same connection the STB is on08:27
mnainesBut since the TV itself is only capable of 64 channels, I have no real way of viewing any content on other channels outside that range08:27
mnainesI think it was a year ago, maybe two years, when the FCC required media stations to broadcast all-digital signals, and when the analog signals were shut off, I still got signal, so I know there's some DRM going on someplace08:30
Saviqfor cable it's probably not DRM, but Conditional Access as I mentioned before08:31
Saviqi.e. your STB has to descramble the signal08:32
Saviqand to be able to do that in Ubuntu on your desktop, you'd need an off-the-shelf solution08:32
mnainesAh, so technically I could get full-content broadcast if I could find an UbuntuTV-capable receiver that can receive those channels?08:33
Saviqin Europe it's usually a CI module (Common Interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface08:33
Saviqbut very few providers actually let them have you08:33
Saviqtheir business is in keeping you tied to the crappy STB08:33
mnainesSaviq, I know that strategy all too well...One STB for the DRM, another for the DVR, and don't even get me started on the wireless receivers that AT&T U-Verse has for TVs08:35
mnainesWould be nice to finally see a single box that can do all that by itself08:36
Saviqit's the same here for the most part, there's a small amount of providers that let you get a SmartCard or a paired CAM + SmartCard08:36
Saviqand put it in any CI-capable receiver08:37
Saviqbut then their problem is that after CI you can do just anything with the content08:37
Saviqi.e. put it on the internet (like it's not already there...)08:37
mnainesSo Ubuntu TV on an STB would be all those features rolled into one box?08:37
Saviqmnaines, it very much depends08:37
Saviqmnaines, in your case, we'd have to get in bed with Time Warner to integrate hardware capable of receiving their content08:38
Saviqand it's them that would distribute the boxes08:38
Saviqbut you'd get all the other features of UbuntuTV08:38
mnainesSo I'd be better off keeping my existing STB and getting a TV preloaded with UbuntuTV?08:39
Saviqmnaines, sure, that would work, too08:41
mnainesNow if only I could convince the rest of my family to switch to Ubuntu...I already got my brother to use Macs08:42
mnainesBoth of my brothers have been Apple fanboys for years now08:43
mnainesI need a new TV anyway...The one I have now is years out of date...an old, dusty 14" CRT TV by Toshiba08:48
=== chihchun is now known as zz_chihchun

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