[02:22] <humph> Hello good people, I need help please. I'm trying to get a couple of old thin clients running on Edu12.4. I have changed the Color depths, cancelled encrypted ssh pretty much everything that the manual suggets. One still goes to the login screen then locks up, while the other doesn't get past the dos like screen, it hangs with the curser just blinking. Is anyone ale to help please. I know they work on an older CentOS ltsp, so I hav
[02:59] <leaftwig> humph i have condolence for your lack of buffer space ;-;  your story captivated me too
[03:05] <humph> I'm glad some one is reading my problem leaftwig
[03:06] <leaftwig> THAT RITE CHER cn get ya what ya want in life, gratitude :)
[03:10] <leaftwig> Could you summarize the deleted information you wanted us to see for others to see?
[03:15] <humph> In short trying to get two older thin clients to boot from Edu12.4. Configured settings in lts.conf as per ltsp manual with no luck
[03:16] <leaftwig> OK.
[03:16] <leaftwig> THanks!
[03:24] <leaftwig> May you resolve this crisis with celerity and grace.
[08:43] <anyfrancis> Bonju
[13:10] <NeilSorrel> Hi I have been looking at some of the blueprints for ltsp
[13:12] <NeilSorrel> and just wondered that images could be scheduled by dhcp rather than the need for control mechanisms such as sabyon?
[13:12] <NeilSorrel> vlans can have a ip-helper so select a dhcp server for boot
[13:12] <ogra_> sabayon is dead since years i think
[13:12] <ogra_> how old are these blueptints you look at ?
[13:13] <NeilSorrel> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-edubuntu-zentyal-integration
[13:14] <NeilSorrel> anyway I have another way
[13:14] <NeilSorrel> and that is to schedule images against mutliple dhcp servers
[13:14] <alkisg> Profile and Session management in edubuntu, Registered by     Oliver Grawert     on 2007-10-29                                :P
[13:14] <NeilSorrel> so an image for a class can move around vlans
[13:15] <ogra_> brandnew !
[13:15] <alkisg> NeilSorrel: are you sure you need multiple images?
[13:15] <ogra_> :)
[13:15] <alkisg> Usually, 1 image can serve lots of classrooms, with just some menu editor
[13:15] <ogra_> yeah, usually you would only need multiple images for extremely varying HW on the clients
[13:16] <NeilSorrel> I was just thinking this morn that it would be good that vlans can use a ip-helper so selecting the dhcp server to boot from
[13:17] <ogra_> why would you have more than one dhcp server ?
[13:17] <NeilSorrel> and thats it really its that simple
[13:17] <NeilSorrel> each dhcp scope should I say represents a subnet
[13:17] <NeilSorrel> and that selects the image
[13:18] <alkisg> You can select images with dhcp, pxe menus, pxelinux menus, lts.conf, load balancer, whatever
[13:18] <alkisg> But why would you need multiple images?
[13:19] <NeilSorrel> because you don't need anything but standard tools to dicate your setup
[13:19] <alkisg> So?
[13:19] <alkisg> Maintaining e.g. 10 setups instead of 10 menus, doesn't sound like easier to me...
[13:20] <alkisg> Also, if you're talking about thin clients (and not fats), then you don't need different images, but different application servers
[13:20] <NeilSorrel> depends on how much resolution you want a class would have an image
[13:20] <NeilSorrel> yes and the multiple dhcp servers would allow that
[13:21] <NeilSorrel> scopes on vnets
[13:21] <NeilSorrel> fat or thin
[13:21] <alkisg> The method you use to separate the clients doesn't matter much
[13:21] <alkisg> It's just a few minutes work, based on hours of work for different setups
[13:23] <NeilSorrel> I will have a look at Profile and Session management in edubuntu but as far as I gathered applications are added at boot ?
[13:23] <alkisg> No
[13:23] <NeilSorrel> going to have a look at that referenece
[13:24] <alkisg> Btw the blueprint you're reading has lots of obsolete links
[13:24] <alkisg> Don't read them
[13:24] <NeilSorrel> Sabayon, pessulus and friends are included in edubuntu. but could need better inclusion and preconfigured defaults. Target of this spec is to identify drawbacks in the apps we include for lockdown and profile management and find a proper default setup.
[13:24] <NeilSorrel> thought that was dead?
[13:24] <highvoltage> pessulus isn't included anymore though, tit's been abandonded upstream
[13:25] <NeilSorrel> what should I read :)
[13:25] <highvoltage> (although there was a google summer of code project that didn't pan out)
[13:25] <alkisg> wiki.ltsp.org, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
[13:25] <NeilSorrel> well thats my point there is no need for any of that just vlan it and have a image follow a class
[13:26] <alkisg> NeilSorrel: the problem isn't an image
[13:26] <alkisg> Sabayon and pessulus wanted to enforce settings
[13:26] <alkisg> Suppose you have a small school. It only has 1 image.
[13:26] <alkisg> Would your solution help?
[13:26] <alkisg> No. The sabayon/pessulus users wanted the students to NOT be able to change the wallpaper
[13:27] <alkisg> That's done with mandatory gconf (dconf etc) settings, not with multiple images
[13:27] <NeilSorrel> yeah I am saying like your distro on your home computer it could just move with you from classroom to classroom but hey
[13:28] <NeilSorrel> its what I am going to do in a community centre
[13:28] <ogra_> why would that need more than one image ?
[13:28] <ogra_> thats more a thing of session migration
[13:28] <ogra_> images only driver the HW
[13:28] <ogra_> *drive
[13:28] <ogra_> (on ltsp thin clients at least)
[13:29] <NeilSorrel> well with price drops I am only interested in fat clients
[13:29] <NeilSorrel> so for me its makes sense anyway :)
[13:30] <alkisg> NeilSorrel: what we're trying to tell you is that desktop lockdown is much different from session migration and much different from managing multiple images
[13:30] <alkisg> 3 different things, so you need to decide which one you want to work on
[13:31] <NeilSorrel> I have just seen so many iniatives such as sabyon and pesslus that there is a simple answer that desktop lock down is a simple method of permissions and at an image level that is all native
[13:31] <ogra_> and three unrelated thinggs ...
[13:31] <alkisg> NeilSorrel: no, you're wrong there, you're mixing 2 different things
[13:32] <NeilSorrel> yeah its ok I just wondered how you do it thats all
[13:32] <NeilSorrel> why I am here really
[13:32] <alkisg> desktop lockdown != different images + permissions
[13:32] <NeilSorrel> could be though
[13:32] <alkisg> So multiple images doesn't solve the desktop lockdown problem
[13:32] <alkisg> No
[13:33] <NeilSorrel> you will have to explain to me what the problem is with desktop lockdown, sorry I am dumb :)
[13:33] <alkisg> Take the example I said above
[13:34] <alkisg> A teacher wants the students to not be able to change wallpaper
[13:34] <alkisg> How can you implement that with multiple imgaes?
[13:34] <alkisg> images?
[13:34] <alkisg> Right click on desktop, change wallpaper ==> ACCESS DENIED
[13:34] <alkisg> To do that, you need mandatory gconf/dconf settings
[13:34] <alkisg> It's a completely different problem than multiple images, session migration, etc etc
[13:34] <NeilSorrel> which are set in the image
[13:35] <alkisg> No
[13:35] <alkisg> They are set in /etc
[13:35] <ogra_> they are set in the session
[13:35] <alkisg> (or the session, for defaults)
[13:35] <ogra_> something runs the lockdown sequence at session startup
[13:36] <ogra_> ("something" depends on the kind of desktop you run here)
[13:36] <NeilSorrel> where is /etc on a standard system with no extra session control ?
[13:36] <alkisg> NeilSorrel: the problem with desktop lockdown is creating the settings in /etc
[13:36] <alkisg> It's not "managing multiple sets of settings"
[13:36] <alkisg> That too, but it's not the major problem there
[13:36] <alkisg> So, the teacher e.g. launched sabayon and said "here's what I want to lock", graphically
[13:37] <alkisg> You don't address a missing GUI tool by providing multiple images
[13:37] <alkisg> You don't even give the teacher a GUI there
[13:37] <alkisg> So, question #2, in your solution, HOW would the teacher specify that he wants the wallpaper locked?
[13:38] <alkisg> If the answer is "manually edit dconf configuration files in /etc", then you don't really offer them anything...
[13:39] <NeilSorrel> yeah but knowing teachers it isn't teachers who are going to be doing this is it?
[13:39] <alkisg> Sabayon is a GUI for selecting which settings to lock down
[13:39] <alkisg> You need to define what your solution is. But it doesn't replace sabayon, it's no GUI for locking down settings.
[13:39] <NeilSorrel> you set up want you want clone a standard image and let follow the class
[13:40] <alkisg> No, that's thinking like windows + ghost
[13:40] <alkisg> While sabayon is more like AD mandatory settings
[13:40] <alkisg> Roaming policies, not multiple ghost images
[13:40] <NeilSorrel> but I thought sabyon was dead?
[13:40] <alkisg> Yes
[13:41] <NeilSorrel> now I am confused :)
[13:41] <alkisg> What I'm saying is that your solution doesn't offer an alternative to sabayon
[13:41] <NeilSorrel> but if sabyon is dead then it isn't an alternative?
[13:41] <alkisg> No, supporting multiple images isn't an alternative to sabayon
[13:42] <NeilSorrel> how can you say that when sabyon is dead?
[13:42] <NeilSorrel> dead is dea isn't it?
[13:42] <alkisg> I don't understand you
[13:42] <alkisg> Sabayon solved problem "A". It's not dead.
[13:42] <NeilSorrel> dead is dead isn't it
[13:42] <alkisg> Your solution solves problem "B".
[13:42] <alkisg> Not "A".
[13:42] <alkisg> Is it an alternative to Sabayon?
[13:42] <NeilSorrel> Oh ok someone said it was
[13:42] <alkisg> No, it solves a different problem.
[13:43] <alkisg> *sorry
[13:43] <alkisg> It's not dead ==> I meant "It's dead" there
[13:43] <alkisg> Scratch the "not" word
[13:43] <NeilSorrel> oh lol
[13:46] <NeilSorrel> I was just thinking install pessulus and there you go
[13:47] <alkisg> Pessulus is also dead
[13:47] <alkisg> And when it worked, it was very very limited
[13:47] <NeilSorrel> dead dead or dead dead see I am confused
[13:52] <alkisg> What's your motivation for wanting to work on this?
[13:52] <alkisg> E.g. I think people would much rather have a lockdown GUI than a way to manage multiple images
[13:52] <alkisg> So if you want, you might focus on that instead...
[13:56] <NeilSorrel> maybe it just occured to me that multiple images is very easy thats all
[13:57] <alkisg> Indeed, it's easy to have multiple images, but it's not always as useful as it sounds...
[13:57] <NeilSorrel> has it been used before?
[13:59] <alkisg> Yes, people using ltsp some times have 2 different images because of different hardware on the clients
[13:59] <alkisg> E.g. nvidia vs ati cards, or arm vs x86 cpu...
[13:59] <NeilSorrel> rather than using generic to keep things compact?
[13:59] <NeilSorrel> Sorry its all interesting
[14:00] <NeilSorrel> I have only been playing with LTSP for a couple of days
[14:00] <alkisg> If you want 3d on nvidia clients, you want the proprietary drivers
[14:00] <NeilSorrel> so a bit of a nnoob
[14:00] <alkisg> And if you want 3d on ati clients, you want the ati proprietary drivers
[14:00] <NeilSorrel> just have a solution to provide and starting from a novices perspective
[14:00] <alkisg> ==> incompatibility, can't have them both installed (easily) ==> multiple images
[14:01] <NeilSorrel> thats why I thought images as they can follow or stay in a classroom
[14:01] <NeilSorrel> but hey
[14:01] <alkisg> Btw, thin ltsp images have no applications
[14:01] <NeilSorrel> there is one thing I did notice with multiple images
[14:01] <alkisg> Only kernel, xorg, drivers etc
[14:02] <NeilSorrel> on ltsp-build-client on ubuntu it pushes out to all images in tftboot and kernel from the log even though you specify arch
[14:03] <NeilSorrel> does anyone know how to stop that?
[14:03] <NeilSorrel> with the kernal-update you can specify arch
[14:03] <NeilSorrel> but with build-client it seems to ignore the directive
[14:07] <NeilSorrel> alkisg: do you use ubuntu ?
[14:07] <alkisg> Yup
[14:07] <NeilSorrel> I am on 12.04 and I can't work out how to keep it to an singular image
[14:08] <NeilSorrel> lol channel name told you I was dumb
[14:08] <alkisg> Why do you need to keep it from updating the other tftp dirs?
[14:09] <NeilSorrel> will I might have a hardware scenario with differences and multiple images
[14:09] <NeilSorrel> I just ntoiced from the logs thats all
[14:09] <NeilSorrel> *noticed
[14:09] <alkisg> Yeah it's an issue but it shouldn't hurt anywhere
[14:10] <NeilSorrel> Thanks I have been playing with all the operators and thought it was me :)
[14:12] <NeilSorrel> also just out of curiosity have you played with bodhilinux any impressions if so?
[14:26] <NeilSorrel> Nobody played with bodhi ?
[14:28] <NeilSorrel> Thanks for the info alkisg: :) going to have a think about implementation
[14:28] <alkisg> You're welcome
[22:56] <Guest73134> hi whats so special about edubuntu? whats the difference to the normal ubuntu distribution?
[23:48] <highvoltage> ogra_: still haven't changed your mind about not coming to bts?
[23:48] <highvoltage> Gu<tab>
[23:54] <ajmitch> highvoltage: you need to be quicker than that