| jrwren | i think that was the most activity i've seen in months. | 00:20 |
|---|---|---|
| jbicha | jrwren: yeah, I guess it takes an impending freeze to bring us to life | 00:21 |
| jrwren | i figured, which is why i've been idling for months | 00:23 |
| jbicha | jrwren: oh, you have pending ubuntu-server merge proposals | 00:24 |
| jbicha | I wonder where pmatulis has been as he was basically heading up ubuntu-server docs for precise | 00:26 |
| jrwren | i had a pull request submitted, yes. | 00:27 |
| jrwren | i don't know if it was welcome or not | 00:27 |
| jbicha | I wish you had explicitly pinged us again on chat or on the mailing list | 00:27 |
| jbicha | I get too much automated LP email to see everything | 00:27 |
| jrwren | ah. | 00:27 |
| jbicha | yeah, merge requests are very welcome! | 00:27 |
| jrwren | i might have pinged once months ago. | 00:28 |
| jbicha | because we're understaffed and busy, you may need to ping us multiple times until you get a reply | 00:28 |
| jrwren | i wrote a wordpress section for ubuntu-server-guide web applications section. is that welcome? | 00:28 |
| jrwren | understood, i just don't want to nag | 00:28 |
| jbicha | WordPress is a bit tricky as I don't know if we actually recommend using the wordpress package to run a production site | 00:30 |
| jbicha | but on the other hand, I don't know if we want to specifically discourage that either | 00:30 |
| jbicha | there's also the juju charm way of deploying wordpress, but that requires the web admin to have access to a cloud (I don't) | 00:31 |
| jrwren | i really like the server guide and i felt like there was good need for such a guide. | 00:32 |
| jrwren | yeah, i was aware of hte juju way, but that is, like you say, something a little different. | 00:32 |
| jrwren | i just felt the web apps section of the server guide was lacking so I wanted to add something | 00:32 |
| jbicha | why don't you try asking pmatulis or the ubuntu-server mailing list to review the WordPress section | 00:33 |
| jbicha | at this point, it's running awfully close to Documentation Freeze so it might have to wait for 13.04 | 00:33 |
| jrwren | https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/117135 | 00:34 |
| jrwren | oh yeah, i also fixed some typos and some incorrect postgresql stuff still referencing 8.4 instead of 9.1 | 00:35 |
| jrwren | https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/postgresql91/+merge/116710 | 00:35 |
| jrwren | https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/typo/+merge/116660 | 00:36 |
| jbicha | I'll go ahead and merge your other work though, thanks again! | 00:36 |
| jrwren | no prob, yw, glad to have helped. | 00:36 |
| jbicha | I also don't know who's lurking in the chat room | 00:44 |
| jbicha | I mean, what's the difference between shaunm and shaunm_ ? | 00:44 |
| shaunm | jbicha: two computers | 01:25 |
| shaunm | I don't have separate nicks set up, so whichever is on first is shaunm. and usually that's my desktop computer. | 01:26 |
| === dpm_ is now known as dpm | ||
| jbicha | mattprice: hi | 16:06 |
| mattprice | jbicha: hi | 16:07 |
| jbicha | um, so about bug 1049593 | 16:08 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593 | 16:08 |
| jbicha | I'm having a hard time even triaging what that huge list of changes is, and I'd expect the Release Team to have the same difficulties | 16:08 |
| jbicha | as far as text content goes in ubuntu-docs we need to freeze by tomorrow unless the Release Team would postpone the freeze | 16:11 |
| jbicha | screenshots won't be quite complete (for instance, bug 1001229 broke the power indicator style but that will be fixed soonish) | 16:12 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 1001229 in ubuntu-mono "wrong icon for the power indicator after last 12.04 update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229 | 16:12 |
| jbicha | our docs are in lp:ubuntu-docs and use the Mallard format | 16:15 |
| jbicha | http://projectmallard.org/ has a tutorial & specification; there's some 1-page cheat sheets at https://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mallard-cheat-sheets | 16:16 |
| jbicha | I have a script in the bzr branch to help automate screenshots but it wasn't working 100% yet | 16:17 |
| jbicha | I'm not sure that JohnLea understands the effects of breaking the UI Freeze so dramatically is | 16:19 |
| jbicha | it discourages the Docs Team from working on docs until the last minute since things will change anyway | 16:20 |
| jbicha | mdke_ mentioned the tight schedule in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-May/016697.html | 16:21 |
| jbicha | and I believe it is related to the fact that we have almost no translated screenshots in ubuntu-docs | 16:22 |
| jbicha | on the other hand, as long as the script works, re-doing the screenshots and even translating them isn't too hard... | 16:25 |
| jbicha | mattprice: do you have any thoughts? | 16:26 |
| mattprice | jbicha: this is a tough one for me as I haven't worked on Ubuntu documentation before. I've offered to help where I can, but I've got a lot of catching up to do, just to understand the issues. | 16:29 |
| mattprice | jbicha: Where do you suggest I start? Do you have work you'd like me to amend/add to or are you looking for someone to originate docs? | 16:30 |
| mattprice | jbicha: I certainly don't want to obstruct anything (quite the opposite) but I need to be clear about what you need me to contribute or I could end up wasting your time. | 16:30 |
| jbicha | I think I'm going to -1 the UIFE request | 16:31 |
| mattprice | jbicha: okay - but do get in touch if there's anything you think I can help with. As long as I'm clear about what's required, I'll make the time to help speed things along. | 16:32 |
| jbicha | mattprice: sure, thanks; if you have extra time and want to learn ubuntu-docs, please ping again when we don't have so many imminent deadlines | 16:34 |
| mattprice | jbicha: will do :) | 16:35 |
| trijntje | Hi all, is this the correct template for the ubuntu documentation in Quantal? | 18:35 |
| trijntje | https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help | 18:35 |
| trijntje | because it seems like it hasn't changed since precise | 18:36 |
| jbicha | trijntje: we generally don't post the translation template for the new release until DocumentationStringFreeze | 18:40 |
| knome | mdke_, i'm around and ready whenever you are :) | 18:40 |
| trijntje | jbicha: I see. I'd probably be fine to do so, most programs open their template before freeze, it gives translators more time to do their job if they want to take the risk | 18:42 |
| jbicha | knome: oh, another meeting? | 18:42 |
| trijntje | unless there are a lot of rewrites ofcourse. But does that mean the template will be updated tomorrow? | 18:42 |
| jbicha | trijntje: could you ask your question about posting the template earlier to the -doc & -translators list? | 18:43 |
| jbicha | mdke_ basically handles that & he may have reasons for delaying the template like we usually do | 18:44 |
| knome | jbicha, nah, he just promised to review the xubuntu docs and i promised to be around :) | 18:44 |
| jbicha | we are talking about pushing DocumentationFreeze back until Tuesday but once it's frozen, translations will open | 18:44 |
| knome | hmm, specific reason? | 18:45 |
| jbicha | knome: Design really wants bug 1049593 approved | 18:47 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593 | 18:47 |
| * knome tries to keep calm | 18:47 | |
| knome | i thought the freezes are there to be followed, not moved around if you don't make it (: | 18:48 |
| jbicha | and there are so many things landing today/tomorrow I don't think I could have finished the screenshots tonight anyway | 18:49 |
| trijntje | jbicha: thanks. I'm not sure if opening them earlier would be better. I'll start a discussion on both lists if the amount of new strings is a big shock ;) | 18:49 |
| jbicha | trijntje: you do translations online on LP, right? | 18:50 |
| trijntje | yes | 18:50 |
| mdke_ | trijntje: the translations for ubuntu-docs are done on the upstream project and not on the ubuntu package | 19:00 |
| mdke_ | trijntje: the docs have not changed much since precise except for a big load of changes over the last few days, so opening translations earlier would not have worked for us really | 19:01 |
| mdke_ | trijntje: but any work done on the strings that have remained will be used | 19:01 |
| mdke_ | knome: hiya | 19:01 |
| trijntje | mdke_: where should I translate the docs? For precise we completed the translations on launchpad, and the docs are installed on my system | 19:02 |
| knome | mdke_, hey :) | 19:02 |
| trijntje | *translated on my system | 19:02 |
| mdke_ | trijntje: always here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs | 19:02 |
| mdke_ | we'll sync translations done on the ubuntu package location too though | 19:03 |
| trijntje | mdke_: looks like that template shares translations with the quantal template, so both should be fine | 19:03 |
| mdke_ | trijntje: we haven't set up the quantal template yet for ubuntu-docs, but when we do, it will share translations with the link you posted earlier | 19:05 |
| mdke_ | jbicha: design should really learn to respect the freezes. There seems to be a basic assumption that freeze exceptions will always get waved through | 19:06 |
| knome | i totally agree with mdke. | 19:14 |
| mdke_ | knome: working on xubuntu-docs at the moment btw. (Not just whinging.) | 19:16 |
| knome | mdke_, great! :) | 19:16 |
| mdke_ | I have actually ended up restructuring the doc so that all the files are in one directory, I don't think the directory structure would have worked for translating the index as things were | 19:17 |
| knome | aha :) | 19:17 |
| knome | worksforme, as long as it works ;) | 19:17 |
| mdke_ | knome: did you work on the html output too when working on the branch? | 19:22 |
| knome | mdke_, what do you mean by that? i built the docs and looked they looked fine, but i didn't manually touch them | 19:23 |
| mdke_ | in terms of the css and so on | 19:23 |
| knome | yeah, i revamped the whole css. | 19:24 |
| * knome is essentially a webdesigner/graphic artist | 19:25 | |
| mdke_ | just trying to figure out how I've mucked it up | 19:26 |
| mdke_ | but now i see it | 19:26 |
| mdke_ | knome: lovely job on the look | 19:29 |
| knome | mdke_, thanks :) | 19:30 |
| mdke_ | knome: is xubuntu also using the startpage from this package as well as the desktop guide? | 19:33 |
| knome | mdke_, yup, that should be uploaded already though | 19:33 |
| mdke_ | knome: ok. Is it ok to change the path slightly where the desktop-guide is being installed? So now under my package it would be: /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/C/index.html | 19:41 |
| knome | mdke_, ummh.. if you can cooperate with mr_pouit to get our launcher in the menu fixed | 19:42 |
| mdke_ | where does it currently point? | 19:42 |
| knome | well, the startpage actually | 19:42 |
| knome | file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html | 19:42 |
| knome | docs are at: file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html | 19:43 |
| jbicha | changing where the launcher points should be easy | 19:43 |
| mdke_ | what happens in other languages? | 19:43 |
| knome | mdke_, i've no idea. | 19:43 |
| knome | jbicha, yes it's trivial, but needs to get done :) | 19:43 |
| mdke_ | my concern would be how will users view the translated docs | 19:44 |
| jbicha | we can push it at the same time as the xubuntu-docs upload | 19:44 |
| knome | mdke_, mine too, if you have that concern :) | 19:44 |
| mdke_ | I would like to change the path so that other translations can be included at /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/fr/index.html | 19:44 |
| mdke_ | but then again, if the browser will not change the path depending on the language, there is not a lot of point in doing that | 19:44 |
| knome | mdke_, if you want, i can install quantal in vbox a bit later today and try with another lang | 19:45 |
| jbicha | knome: see, that's why we need to get you using yelp for 13.04; translations should *just work* | 19:45 |
| mdke_ | is there someone we can ask about what behaviour the browser would have/ | 19:46 |
| mdke_ | ? | 19:46 |
| mdke_ | rather than go through the effort of installing a vbox | 19:46 |
| knome | mdke_, i don't think so | 19:46 |
| knome | mdke_, i can always report a test to the ISO tracker when i do that :) | 19:46 |
| jbicha | I think trying to get the browser to auto-detect the language and use a translated local copy is a bit complex | 19:47 |
| mdke_ | we used to do it with epiphany for the Ubuntu browser startpage | 19:48 |
| mdke_ | but I agree, it's likely to be out of reach for this cycle | 19:48 |
| jbicha | it mostly works on help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/ but that's because apache2 is running & handling that | 19:48 |
| knome | mdke_, well, i can ask if somebody has a non-enlish xubuntu Q | 19:48 |
| mdke_ | we may just have to bite the bullet for this cycle and use the old path | 19:48 |
| mdke_ | on the basis that having one language is a lot better than no languages | 19:48 |
| knome | hehe.:) | 19:48 |
| knome | yeah... | 19:48 |
| mdke_ | and then see if we can figure out something for translations in the next few days | 19:48 |
| knome | sounds good. | 19:49 |
| mdke_ | I will probably change the link to the docs from /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html to /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html for coherence | 19:49 |
| mdke_ | that should be fine because the browser startpage can be updated in the same upload | 19:50 |
| knome | worksforme | 19:50 |
| knome | yes | 19:50 |
| mdke_ | so that the link is corrected | 19:50 |
| knome | yup, good :) | 19:50 |
| jbicha | you could have separate binaries for the different languages with their own launchers, ie xubuntu-docs-fr | 19:50 |
| jbicha | do you have a launcher on the panel by default or just in the menus? | 19:50 |
| knome | jbicha, just the menu | 19:51 |
| knome | i believe... | 19:51 |
| mdke_ | knome: can you try this out for me? http://www.mdke.org/tmp/xubuntu-docs_12.10.1_all.deb | 19:59 |
| mdke_ | seems fine to me but I don't use xubuntu | 19:59 |
| knome | mdke_, let me boot up my quantal vbox in a moment | 20:00 |
| mdke_ | great | 20:00 |
| knome | confirmed; there's no translation for precise docs | 20:00 |
| mdke_ | jbicha: after knome has checked it out, please can you upload the package from lp:xubuntu-docs? | 20:01 |
| jbicha | mdke_: yes | 20:01 |
| mdke_ | jbicha: thanks a lot | 20:02 |
| mdke_ | knome: in due course, perhaps you can have a word with whoever maintains the browser/launcher about whether they have any ideas for allowing translated documentation to be viewed automatically. Then we'll see what changes are needed to xubuntu-docs | 20:03 |
| jbicha | knome: do you know off-hand what source package provides that launcher? | 20:04 |
| mdke_ | jbicha: on an unrelated topic, you should be able to run "make pot" as shorthand to update the translation template. | 20:04 |
| mdke_ | (for ubuntu-docs) | 20:04 |
| knome | jbicha, nope | 20:05 |
| mdke_ | what's the browser? | 20:05 |
| === mdke_ is now known as mdke | ||
| jbicha | mdke_: oh, it's magic then? | 20:05 |
| mdke | yeah | 20:06 |
| mdke | if you have done ./autogen.sh at some point in your tree | 20:06 |
| mdke | it will only work if you have touched the page files more recently than the pot file | 20:07 |
| mdke | otherwise it will say "nothing to do" or similar | 20:07 |
| jbicha | knome: ah, it's xubuntu-default-settings | 20:10 |
| knome | mdke, "The package is of bad quality" | 20:17 |
| knome | mdke, but there is no actual output on it | 20:17 |
| knome | mdke, do you want me to "ignore and install" ? | 20:17 |
| jbicha | lol, that's not very nice of XFCE to criticize our packaging! | 20:18 |
| knome | it was actually *UBUNTU* software center who did that.. | 20:19 |
| jbicha | oh really? | 20:20 |
| jbicha | crazy | 20:20 |
| jbicha | knome: I don't think the launcher link needs to be updated, it points to file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html which I believe is correct | 20:21 |
| knome | mdke, hmm... | 20:26 |
| knome | mdke, note that there are relative links to images in the docs | 20:26 |
| knome | mdke, so now that you moved the docs to desktop-guide/, the relative links do not work anymore | 20:26 |
| knome | mdke, you should be able to edit the paths from xubuntu.ent in lib/ | 20:27 |
| knome | mdke, just replace "common/" with "../common/" | 20:27 |
| knome | mdke, lines 63, 64, 67 and 77 | 20:28 |
| knome | mdke, anyway, installed the package with gedi and it looks fine. | 20:29 |
| knome | isap | 20:29 |
| knome | meh | 20:29 |
| knome | now you (too) know my test-vbox sudo pass :P | 20:29 |
| mdke | knome: ok, xubuntu.ent is the only file I didn't update the links in, I think | 21:12 |
| mdke | jbicha: that change is pushed to the branch, so if you are able to upload, that would be great | 21:13 |
| mdke | what's all this about bad quality? Is that because it is a deb rather than in a repo? | 21:13 |
| jbicha | mdke: knome: uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/12.10.1 | 21:14 |
| mdke | jbicha: you won't have that fix then I guess | 21:15 |
| mdke | ah, you did it | 21:16 |
| mdke | thanks | 21:16 |
| jbicha | :) | 21:16 |
| jbicha | I didn't know if you were done for the night or not | 21:16 |
| jbicha | I didn't get that bad quality warning even when I tried using Software Center to open the .deb | 21:16 |
| mdke | cool | 21:17 |
| mdke | alright, perhaps I am done for the night then :) | 21:17 |
| jbicha | I did fix a lintian error though | 21:17 |
| mdke | thanks, I'm not good at that | 21:17 |
| jbicha | it wasn't your fault, just a left-over maintainer script; instead of fixing it I just dropped it | 21:18 |
| mdke | :) | 21:19 |
| jbicha | oh, we should probably do whatever that magic is to get universe packages translatable in LP | 21:20 |
| mdke | not needed, I don't think - we would just use the xubuntu-docs project | 21:20 |
| mdke | but there is not a lot of point unless we know that the translations can be used by the browser | 21:21 |
| jbicha | ok | 21:21 |
| skaet | jbicha, I've moved the DocsStringFreeze on the main ReleaseSchedule pages to 9/25. Do you want me to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule ? | 21:37 |
| skaet | (its still got precise dates in it), also any other place that needs updating? | 21:38 |
| jbicha | if you like, I obviously haven't been using that page since precise | 21:38 |
| jbicha | I think the only other place is an email to -doc, -translators, and -release | 21:39 |
| skaet | email in composition. | 21:43 |
| knome | jbicha, mdke: THANKS! | 21:43 |
| knome | hmm, somebody familiar with the launchpad doc teams? | 22:17 |
| knome | what's the need for https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc ? | 22:17 |
| knome | does people on that team get some access to stuff, since it's a subteam of ~ubuntu-doc? | 22:18 |
| jbicha | no, ubuntu-core-doc has commit access, I don't think ~xubuntu-doc has any extra privileges | 22:20 |
| knome | ok, it's okay to approve people to the team as we see fit? | 22:25 |
| jbicha | it's probably equivalent to ~ubuntu-doc-contributors but focused on xubuntu | 22:26 |
| jbicha | you could make the team open if you wanted, or keep it moderated | 22:27 |
| knome | jbicha, ok, thanks for the insight | 22:28 |
| knome | hmm, could we simply remove the team? | 22:30 |
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