[00:20] <jrwren> i think that was the most activity i've seen in months.
[00:21] <jbicha> jrwren: yeah, I guess it takes an impending freeze to bring us to life
[00:23] <jrwren> i figured, which is why i've been idling for months
[00:24] <jbicha> jrwren: oh, you have pending ubuntu-server merge proposals
[00:26] <jbicha> I wonder where pmatulis has been as he was basically heading up ubuntu-server docs for precise
[00:27] <jrwren> i had a pull request submitted, yes.
[00:27] <jrwren> i don't know if it was welcome or not
[00:27] <jbicha> I wish you had explicitly pinged us again on chat or on the mailing list
[00:27] <jbicha> I get too much automated LP email to see everything
[00:27] <jrwren> ah.
[00:27] <jbicha> yeah, merge requests are very welcome!
[00:28] <jrwren> i might have pinged once months ago.
[00:28] <jbicha> because we're understaffed and busy, you may need to ping us multiple times until you get a reply
[00:28] <jrwren> i wrote a wordpress section for ubuntu-server-guide web applications section. is that welcome?
[00:28] <jrwren> understood, i just don't want to nag
[00:30] <jbicha> WordPress is a bit tricky as I don't know if we actually recommend using the wordpress package to run a production site
[00:30] <jbicha> but on the other hand, I don't know if we want to specifically discourage that either
[00:31] <jbicha> there's also the juju charm way of deploying wordpress, but that requires the web admin to have access to a cloud (I don't)
[00:32] <jrwren> i really like the server guide and i felt like there was good need for such a guide.
[00:32] <jrwren> yeah, i was aware of hte juju way, but that is, like you say, something a little different.
[00:32] <jrwren> i just felt the web apps section of the server guide was lacking so I wanted to add something
[00:33] <jbicha> why don't you try asking pmatulis or the ubuntu-server mailing list to review the WordPress section
[00:33] <jbicha> at this point, it's running awfully close to Documentation Freeze so it might have to wait for 13.04
[00:34] <jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/117135
[00:35] <jrwren> oh yeah, i also fixed some typos and some incorrect postgresql stuff still referencing 8.4 instead of 9.1
[00:35] <jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/postgresql91/+merge/116710
[00:36] <jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/typo/+merge/116660
[00:36] <jbicha> I'll go ahead and merge your other work though, thanks again!
[00:36] <jrwren> no prob, yw, glad to have helped.
[00:44] <jbicha> I also don't know who's lurking in the chat room
[00:44] <jbicha> I mean, what's the difference between shaunm and shaunm_ ?
[01:25] <shaunm> jbicha: two computers
[01:26] <shaunm> I don't have separate nicks set up, so whichever is on first is shaunm. and usually that's my desktop computer.
[16:06] <jbicha> mattprice: hi
[16:07] <mattprice> jbicha: hi
[16:08] <jbicha> um, so about bug 1049593
[16:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593
[16:08] <jbicha> I'm having a hard time even triaging what that huge list of changes is, and I'd expect the Release Team to have the same difficulties
[16:11] <jbicha> as far as text content goes in ubuntu-docs we need to freeze by tomorrow unless the Release Team would postpone the freeze
[16:12] <jbicha> screenshots won't be quite complete (for instance, bug 1001229 broke the power indicator style but that will be fixed soonish)
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1001229 in ubuntu-mono "wrong icon for the power indicator after last 12.04 update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229
[16:15] <jbicha> our docs are in lp:ubuntu-docs and use the Mallard format
[16:16] <jbicha> http://projectmallard.org/ has a tutorial & specification; there's some 1-page cheat sheets at https://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mallard-cheat-sheets
[16:17] <jbicha> I have a script in the bzr branch to help automate screenshots but it wasn't working 100% yet
[16:19] <jbicha> I'm not sure that JohnLea understands the effects of breaking the UI Freeze so dramatically is
[16:20] <jbicha> it discourages the Docs Team from working on docs until the last minute since things will change anyway
[16:21] <jbicha> mdke_ mentioned the tight schedule in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-May/016697.html
[16:22] <jbicha> and I believe it is related to the fact that we have almost no translated screenshots in ubuntu-docs
[16:25] <jbicha> on the other hand, as long as the script works, re-doing the screenshots and even translating them isn't too hard...
[16:26] <jbicha> mattprice: do you have any thoughts?
[16:29] <mattprice> jbicha: this is a tough one for me as I haven't worked on Ubuntu documentation before. I've offered to help where I can, but I've got a lot of catching up to do, just to understand the issues.
[16:30] <mattprice> jbicha: Where do you suggest I start? Do you have work you'd like me to amend/add to or are you looking for someone to originate docs?
[16:30] <mattprice> jbicha: I certainly don't want to obstruct anything (quite the opposite) but I need to be clear about what you need me to contribute or I could end up wasting your time.
[16:31] <jbicha> I think I'm going to -1 the UIFE request
[16:32] <mattprice> jbicha: okay - but do get in touch if there's anything you think I can help with. As long as I'm clear about what's required, I'll make the time to help speed things along.
[16:34] <jbicha> mattprice: sure, thanks; if you have extra time and want to learn ubuntu-docs, please ping again when we don't have so many imminent deadlines
[16:35] <mattprice> jbicha: will do :)
[18:35] <trijntje> Hi all, is this the correct template for the ubuntu documentation in Quantal?
[18:35] <trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help
[18:36] <trijntje> because it seems like it hasn't changed since precise
[18:40] <jbicha> trijntje: we generally don't post the translation template for the new release until DocumentationStringFreeze
[18:40] <knome> mdke_, i'm around and ready whenever you are :)
[18:42] <trijntje> jbicha: I see. I'd probably be fine to do so, most programs open their template before freeze, it gives translators more time to do their job if they want to take the risk
[18:42] <jbicha> knome: oh, another meeting?
[18:42] <trijntje> unless there are a lot of rewrites ofcourse. But does that mean the template will be updated tomorrow?
[18:43] <jbicha> trijntje: could you ask your question about posting the template earlier to the -doc & -translators list?
[18:44] <jbicha> mdke_ basically handles that & he may have reasons for delaying the template like we usually do
[18:44] <knome> jbicha, nah, he just promised to review the xubuntu docs and i promised to be around :)
[18:44] <jbicha> we are talking about pushing DocumentationFreeze back until Tuesday but once it's frozen, translations will open
[18:45] <knome> hmm, specific reason?
[18:47] <jbicha> knome: Design really wants bug 1049593 approved
[18:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593
[18:47]  * knome tries to keep calm
[18:48] <knome> i thought the freezes are there to be followed, not moved around if you don't make it (:
[18:49] <jbicha> and there are so many things landing today/tomorrow I don't think I could have finished the screenshots tonight anyway
[18:49] <trijntje> jbicha: thanks. I'm not sure if opening them earlier would be better. I'll start a discussion on both lists if the amount of new strings is a big shock ;)
[18:50] <jbicha> trijntje: you do translations online on LP, right?
[18:50] <trijntje> yes
[19:00] <mdke_> trijntje: the translations for ubuntu-docs are done on the upstream project and not on the ubuntu package
[19:01] <mdke_> trijntje: the docs have not changed much since precise except for a big load of changes over the last few days, so opening translations earlier would not have worked for us really
[19:01] <mdke_> trijntje: but any work done on the strings that have remained will be used
[19:01] <mdke_> knome: hiya
[19:02] <trijntje> mdke_: where should I translate the docs? For precise we completed the translations on launchpad, and the docs are installed on my system
[19:02] <knome> mdke_, hey :)
[19:02] <trijntje> *translated on my system
[19:02] <mdke_> trijntje: always here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs
[19:03] <mdke_> we'll sync translations done on the ubuntu package location too though
[19:03] <trijntje> mdke_: looks like that template shares translations with the quantal template, so both should be fine
[19:05] <mdke_> trijntje: we haven't set up the quantal template yet for ubuntu-docs, but when we do, it will share translations with the link you posted earlier
[19:06] <mdke_> jbicha: design should really learn to respect the freezes. There seems to be a basic assumption that freeze exceptions will always get waved through
[19:14] <knome> i totally agree with mdke.
[19:16] <mdke_> knome: working on xubuntu-docs at the moment btw. (Not just whinging.)
[19:16] <knome> mdke_, great! :)
[19:17] <mdke_> I have actually ended up restructuring the doc so that all the files are in one directory, I don't think the directory structure would have worked for translating the index as things were
[19:17] <knome> aha :)
[19:17] <knome> worksforme, as long as it works ;)
[19:22] <mdke_> knome: did you work on the html output too when working on the branch?
[19:23] <knome> mdke_, what do you mean by that? i built the docs and looked they looked fine, but i didn't manually touch them
[19:23] <mdke_> in terms of the css and so on
[19:24] <knome> yeah, i revamped the whole css.
[19:25]  * knome is essentially a webdesigner/graphic artist
[19:26] <mdke_> just trying to figure out how I've mucked it up
[19:26] <mdke_> but now i see it
[19:29] <mdke_> knome: lovely job on the look
[19:30] <knome> mdke_, thanks :)
[19:33] <mdke_> knome: is xubuntu also using the startpage from this package as well as the desktop guide?
[19:33] <knome> mdke_, yup, that should be uploaded already though
[19:41] <mdke_> knome: ok. Is it ok to change the path slightly where the desktop-guide is being installed? So now under my package it would be: /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/C/index.html
[19:42] <knome> mdke_, ummh.. if you can cooperate with mr_pouit to get our launcher in the menu fixed
[19:42] <mdke_> where does it currently point?
[19:42] <knome> well, the startpage actually
[19:42] <knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
[19:43] <knome> docs are at: file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html
[19:43] <jbicha> changing where the launcher points should be easy
[19:43] <mdke_> what happens in other languages?
[19:43] <knome> mdke_, i've no idea.
[19:43] <knome> jbicha, yes it's trivial, but needs to get done :)
[19:44] <mdke_> my concern would be how will users view the translated docs
[19:44] <jbicha> we can push it at the same time as the xubuntu-docs upload
[19:44] <knome> mdke_, mine too, if you have that concern :)
[19:44] <mdke_> I would like to change the path so that other translations can be included at /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/fr/index.html
[19:44] <mdke_> but then again, if the browser will not change the path depending on the language, there is not a lot of point in doing that
[19:45] <knome> mdke_, if you want, i can install quantal in vbox a bit later today and try with another lang
[19:45] <jbicha> knome: see, that's why we need to get you using yelp for 13.04; translations should *just work*
[19:46] <mdke_> is there someone we can ask about what behaviour the browser would have/
[19:46] <mdke_> ?
[19:46] <mdke_> rather than go through the effort of installing a vbox
[19:46] <knome> mdke_, i don't think so
[19:46] <knome> mdke_, i can always report a test to the ISO tracker when i do that :)
[19:47] <jbicha> I think trying to get the browser to auto-detect the language and use a translated local copy is a bit complex
[19:48] <mdke_> we used to do it with epiphany for the Ubuntu browser startpage
[19:48] <mdke_> but I agree, it's likely to be out of reach for this cycle
[19:48] <jbicha> it mostly works on help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/ but that's because apache2 is running & handling that
[19:48] <knome> mdke_, well, i can ask if somebody has a non-enlish xubuntu Q
[19:48] <mdke_> we may just have to bite the bullet for this cycle and use the old path
[19:48] <mdke_> on the basis that having one language is a lot better than no languages
[19:48] <knome> hehe.:)
[19:48] <knome> yeah...
[19:48] <mdke_> and then see if we can figure out something for translations in the next few days
[19:49] <knome> sounds good.
[19:49] <mdke_> I will probably change the link to the docs from /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html to /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html for coherence
[19:50] <mdke_> that should be fine because the browser startpage can be updated in the same upload
[19:50] <knome> worksforme
[19:50] <knome> yes
[19:50] <mdke_> so that the link is corrected
[19:50] <knome> yup, good :)
[19:50] <jbicha> you could have separate binaries for the different languages with their own launchers, ie xubuntu-docs-fr
[19:50] <jbicha> do you have a launcher on the panel by default or just in the menus?
[19:51] <knome> jbicha, just the menu
[19:51] <knome> i believe...
[19:59] <mdke_> knome: can you try this out for me? http://www.mdke.org/tmp/xubuntu-docs_12.10.1_all.deb
[19:59] <mdke_> seems fine to me but I don't use xubuntu
[20:00] <knome> mdke_, let me boot up my quantal vbox in a moment
[20:00] <mdke_> great
[20:00] <knome> confirmed; there's no translation for precise docs
[20:01] <mdke_> jbicha: after knome has checked it out, please can you upload the package from lp:xubuntu-docs?
[20:01] <jbicha> mdke_: yes
[20:02] <mdke_> jbicha: thanks a lot
[20:03] <mdke_> knome: in due course, perhaps you can have a word with whoever maintains the browser/launcher about whether they have any ideas for allowing translated documentation to be viewed automatically. Then we'll see what changes are needed to xubuntu-docs
[20:04] <jbicha> knome: do you know off-hand what source package provides that launcher?
[20:04] <mdke_> jbicha: on an unrelated topic, you should be able to run "make pot" as shorthand to update the translation template.
[20:04] <mdke_> (for ubuntu-docs)
[20:05] <knome> jbicha, nope
[20:05] <mdke_> what's the browser?
[20:05] <jbicha> mdke_: oh, it's magic then?
[20:06] <mdke> yeah
[20:06] <mdke> if you have done ./autogen.sh at some point in your tree
[20:07] <mdke> it will only work if you have touched the page files more recently than the pot file
[20:07] <mdke> otherwise it will say "nothing to do" or similar
[20:10] <jbicha> knome: ah, it's xubuntu-default-settings
[20:17] <knome> mdke, "The package is of bad quality"
[20:17] <knome> mdke, but there is no actual output on it
[20:17] <knome> mdke, do you want me to "ignore and install" ?
[20:18] <jbicha> lol, that's not very nice of XFCE to criticize our packaging!
[20:19] <knome> it was actually *UBUNTU* software center who did that..
[20:20] <jbicha> oh really?
[20:20] <jbicha> crazy
[20:21] <jbicha> knome: I don't think the launcher link needs to be updated, it points to file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html which I believe is correct
[20:26] <knome> mdke, hmm...
[20:26] <knome> mdke, note that there are relative links to images in the docs
[20:26] <knome> mdke, so now that you moved the docs to desktop-guide/, the relative links do not work anymore
[20:27] <knome> mdke, you should be able to edit the paths from xubuntu.ent in lib/
[20:27] <knome> mdke, just replace "common/" with "../common/"
[20:28] <knome> mdke, lines 63, 64, 67 and 77
[20:29] <knome> mdke, anyway, installed the package with gedi and it looks fine.
[20:29] <knome> isap
[20:29] <knome> meh
[20:29] <knome> now you (too) know my test-vbox sudo pass :P
[21:12] <mdke> knome: ok, xubuntu.ent is the only file I didn't update the links in, I think
[21:13] <mdke> jbicha: that change is pushed to the branch, so if you are able to upload, that would be great
[21:13] <mdke> what's all this about bad quality? Is that because it is a deb rather than in a repo?
[21:14] <jbicha> mdke: knome: uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/12.10.1
[21:15] <mdke> jbicha: you won't have that fix then I guess
[21:16] <mdke> ah, you did it
[21:16] <mdke> thanks
[21:16] <jbicha> :)
[21:16] <jbicha> I didn't know if you were done for the night or not
[21:16] <jbicha> I didn't get that bad quality warning even when I tried using Software Center to open the .deb
[21:17] <mdke> cool
[21:17] <mdke> alright, perhaps I am done for the night then :)
[21:17] <jbicha> I did fix a lintian error though
[21:17] <mdke> thanks, I'm not good at that
[21:18] <jbicha> it wasn't your fault, just a left-over maintainer script; instead of fixing it I just dropped it
[21:19] <mdke> :)
[21:20] <jbicha> oh, we should probably do whatever that magic is to get universe packages translatable in LP
[21:20] <mdke> not needed, I don't think - we would just use the xubuntu-docs project
[21:21] <mdke> but there is not a lot of point unless we know that the translations can be used by the browser
[21:21] <jbicha> ok
[21:37] <skaet> jbicha,  I've moved the DocsStringFreeze on the main ReleaseSchedule pages to 9/25.   Do you want me to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule ?
[21:38] <skaet> (its still got precise dates in it),   also any other place that needs updating?
[21:38] <jbicha> if you like, I obviously haven't been using that page since precise
[21:39] <jbicha> I think the only other place is an email to -doc, -translators, and -release
[21:43] <skaet> email in composition.
[21:43] <knome> jbicha, mdke: THANKS!
[22:17] <knome> hmm, somebody familiar with the launchpad doc teams?
[22:17] <knome> what's the need for https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc ?
[22:18] <knome> does people on that team get some access to stuff, since it's a subteam of ~ubuntu-doc?
[22:20] <jbicha> no, ubuntu-core-doc has commit access, I don't think ~xubuntu-doc has any extra privileges
[22:25] <knome> ok, it's okay to approve people to the team as we see fit?
[22:26] <jbicha> it's probably equivalent to ~ubuntu-doc-contributors but focused on xubuntu
[22:27] <jbicha> you could make the team open if you wanted, or keep it moderated
[22:28] <knome> jbicha, ok, thanks for the insight
[22:30] <knome> hmm, could we simply remove the team?