[00:20] i think that was the most activity i've seen in months. [00:21] jrwren: yeah, I guess it takes an impending freeze to bring us to life [00:23] i figured, which is why i've been idling for months [00:24] jrwren: oh, you have pending ubuntu-server merge proposals [00:26] I wonder where pmatulis has been as he was basically heading up ubuntu-server docs for precise [00:27] i had a pull request submitted, yes. [00:27] i don't know if it was welcome or not [00:27] I wish you had explicitly pinged us again on chat or on the mailing list [00:27] I get too much automated LP email to see everything [00:27] ah. [00:27] yeah, merge requests are very welcome! [00:28] i might have pinged once months ago. [00:28] because we're understaffed and busy, you may need to ping us multiple times until you get a reply [00:28] i wrote a wordpress section for ubuntu-server-guide web applications section. is that welcome? [00:28] understood, i just don't want to nag [00:30] WordPress is a bit tricky as I don't know if we actually recommend using the wordpress package to run a production site [00:30] but on the other hand, I don't know if we want to specifically discourage that either [00:31] there's also the juju charm way of deploying wordpress, but that requires the web admin to have access to a cloud (I don't) [00:32] i really like the server guide and i felt like there was good need for such a guide. [00:32] yeah, i was aware of hte juju way, but that is, like you say, something a little different. [00:32] i just felt the web apps section of the server guide was lacking so I wanted to add something [00:33] why don't you try asking pmatulis or the ubuntu-server mailing list to review the WordPress section [00:33] at this point, it's running awfully close to Documentation Freeze so it might have to wait for 13.04 [00:34] https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/117135 [00:35] oh yeah, i also fixed some typos and some incorrect postgresql stuff still referencing 8.4 instead of 9.1 [00:35] https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/postgresql91/+merge/116710 [00:36] https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/typo/+merge/116660 [00:36] I'll go ahead and merge your other work though, thanks again! [00:36] no prob, yw, glad to have helped. [00:44] I also don't know who's lurking in the chat room [00:44] I mean, what's the difference between shaunm and shaunm_ ? [01:25] jbicha: two computers [01:26] I don't have separate nicks set up, so whichever is on first is shaunm. and usually that's my desktop computer. === dpm_ is now known as dpm [16:06] mattprice: hi [16:07] jbicha: hi [16:08] um, so about bug 1049593 [16:08] Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593 [16:08] I'm having a hard time even triaging what that huge list of changes is, and I'd expect the Release Team to have the same difficulties [16:11] as far as text content goes in ubuntu-docs we need to freeze by tomorrow unless the Release Team would postpone the freeze [16:12] screenshots won't be quite complete (for instance, bug 1001229 broke the power indicator style but that will be fixed soonish) [16:12] Launchpad bug 1001229 in ubuntu-mono "wrong icon for the power indicator after last 12.04 update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229 [16:15] our docs are in lp:ubuntu-docs and use the Mallard format [16:16] http://projectmallard.org/ has a tutorial & specification; there's some 1-page cheat sheets at https://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mallard-cheat-sheets [16:17] I have a script in the bzr branch to help automate screenshots but it wasn't working 100% yet [16:19] I'm not sure that JohnLea understands the effects of breaking the UI Freeze so dramatically is [16:20] it discourages the Docs Team from working on docs until the last minute since things will change anyway [16:21] mdke_ mentioned the tight schedule in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-May/016697.html [16:22] and I believe it is related to the fact that we have almost no translated screenshots in ubuntu-docs [16:25] on the other hand, as long as the script works, re-doing the screenshots and even translating them isn't too hard... [16:26] mattprice: do you have any thoughts? [16:29] jbicha: this is a tough one for me as I haven't worked on Ubuntu documentation before. I've offered to help where I can, but I've got a lot of catching up to do, just to understand the issues. [16:30] jbicha: Where do you suggest I start? Do you have work you'd like me to amend/add to or are you looking for someone to originate docs? [16:30] jbicha: I certainly don't want to obstruct anything (quite the opposite) but I need to be clear about what you need me to contribute or I could end up wasting your time. [16:31] I think I'm going to -1 the UIFE request [16:32] jbicha: okay - but do get in touch if there's anything you think I can help with. As long as I'm clear about what's required, I'll make the time to help speed things along. [16:34] mattprice: sure, thanks; if you have extra time and want to learn ubuntu-docs, please ping again when we don't have so many imminent deadlines [16:35] jbicha: will do :) [18:35] Hi all, is this the correct template for the ubuntu documentation in Quantal? [18:35] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help [18:36] because it seems like it hasn't changed since precise [18:40] trijntje: we generally don't post the translation template for the new release until DocumentationStringFreeze [18:40] mdke_, i'm around and ready whenever you are :) [18:42] jbicha: I see. I'd probably be fine to do so, most programs open their template before freeze, it gives translators more time to do their job if they want to take the risk [18:42] knome: oh, another meeting? [18:42] unless there are a lot of rewrites ofcourse. But does that mean the template will be updated tomorrow? [18:43] trijntje: could you ask your question about posting the template earlier to the -doc & -translators list? [18:44] mdke_ basically handles that & he may have reasons for delaying the template like we usually do [18:44] jbicha, nah, he just promised to review the xubuntu docs and i promised to be around :) [18:44] we are talking about pushing DocumentationFreeze back until Tuesday but once it's frozen, translations will open [18:45] hmm, specific reason? [18:47] knome: Design really wants bug 1049593 approved [18:47] Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593 [18:47] * knome tries to keep calm [18:48] i thought the freezes are there to be followed, not moved around if you don't make it (: [18:49] and there are so many things landing today/tomorrow I don't think I could have finished the screenshots tonight anyway [18:49] jbicha: thanks. I'm not sure if opening them earlier would be better. I'll start a discussion on both lists if the amount of new strings is a big shock ;) [18:50] trijntje: you do translations online on LP, right? [18:50] yes [19:00] trijntje: the translations for ubuntu-docs are done on the upstream project and not on the ubuntu package [19:01] trijntje: the docs have not changed much since precise except for a big load of changes over the last few days, so opening translations earlier would not have worked for us really [19:01] trijntje: but any work done on the strings that have remained will be used [19:01] knome: hiya [19:02] mdke_: where should I translate the docs? For precise we completed the translations on launchpad, and the docs are installed on my system [19:02] mdke_, hey :) [19:02] *translated on my system [19:02] trijntje: always here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs [19:03] we'll sync translations done on the ubuntu package location too though [19:03] mdke_: looks like that template shares translations with the quantal template, so both should be fine [19:05] trijntje: we haven't set up the quantal template yet for ubuntu-docs, but when we do, it will share translations with the link you posted earlier [19:06] jbicha: design should really learn to respect the freezes. There seems to be a basic assumption that freeze exceptions will always get waved through [19:14] i totally agree with mdke. [19:16] knome: working on xubuntu-docs at the moment btw. (Not just whinging.) [19:16] mdke_, great! :) [19:17] I have actually ended up restructuring the doc so that all the files are in one directory, I don't think the directory structure would have worked for translating the index as things were [19:17] aha :) [19:17] worksforme, as long as it works ;) [19:22] knome: did you work on the html output too when working on the branch? [19:23] mdke_, what do you mean by that? i built the docs and looked they looked fine, but i didn't manually touch them [19:23] in terms of the css and so on [19:24] yeah, i revamped the whole css. [19:25] * knome is essentially a webdesigner/graphic artist [19:26] just trying to figure out how I've mucked it up [19:26] but now i see it [19:29] knome: lovely job on the look [19:30] mdke_, thanks :) [19:33] knome: is xubuntu also using the startpage from this package as well as the desktop guide? [19:33] mdke_, yup, that should be uploaded already though [19:41] knome: ok. Is it ok to change the path slightly where the desktop-guide is being installed? So now under my package it would be: /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/C/index.html [19:42] mdke_, ummh.. if you can cooperate with mr_pouit to get our launcher in the menu fixed [19:42] where does it currently point? [19:42] well, the startpage actually [19:42] file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html [19:43] docs are at: file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html [19:43] changing where the launcher points should be easy [19:43] what happens in other languages? [19:43] mdke_, i've no idea. [19:43] jbicha, yes it's trivial, but needs to get done :) [19:44] my concern would be how will users view the translated docs [19:44] we can push it at the same time as the xubuntu-docs upload [19:44] mdke_, mine too, if you have that concern :) [19:44] I would like to change the path so that other translations can be included at /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/fr/index.html [19:44] but then again, if the browser will not change the path depending on the language, there is not a lot of point in doing that [19:45] mdke_, if you want, i can install quantal in vbox a bit later today and try with another lang [19:45] knome: see, that's why we need to get you using yelp for 13.04; translations should *just work* [19:46] is there someone we can ask about what behaviour the browser would have/ [19:46] ? [19:46] rather than go through the effort of installing a vbox [19:46] mdke_, i don't think so [19:46] mdke_, i can always report a test to the ISO tracker when i do that :) [19:47] I think trying to get the browser to auto-detect the language and use a translated local copy is a bit complex [19:48] we used to do it with epiphany for the Ubuntu browser startpage [19:48] but I agree, it's likely to be out of reach for this cycle [19:48] it mostly works on help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/ but that's because apache2 is running & handling that [19:48] mdke_, well, i can ask if somebody has a non-enlish xubuntu Q [19:48] we may just have to bite the bullet for this cycle and use the old path [19:48] on the basis that having one language is a lot better than no languages [19:48] hehe.:) [19:48] yeah... [19:48] and then see if we can figure out something for translations in the next few days [19:49] sounds good. [19:49] I will probably change the link to the docs from /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html to /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html for coherence [19:50] that should be fine because the browser startpage can be updated in the same upload [19:50] worksforme [19:50] yes [19:50] so that the link is corrected [19:50] yup, good :) [19:50] you could have separate binaries for the different languages with their own launchers, ie xubuntu-docs-fr [19:50] do you have a launcher on the panel by default or just in the menus? [19:51] jbicha, just the menu [19:51] i believe... [19:59] knome: can you try this out for me? http://www.mdke.org/tmp/xubuntu-docs_12.10.1_all.deb [19:59] seems fine to me but I don't use xubuntu [20:00] mdke_, let me boot up my quantal vbox in a moment [20:00] great [20:00] confirmed; there's no translation for precise docs [20:01] jbicha: after knome has checked it out, please can you upload the package from lp:xubuntu-docs? [20:01] mdke_: yes [20:02] jbicha: thanks a lot [20:03] knome: in due course, perhaps you can have a word with whoever maintains the browser/launcher about whether they have any ideas for allowing translated documentation to be viewed automatically. Then we'll see what changes are needed to xubuntu-docs [20:04] knome: do you know off-hand what source package provides that launcher? [20:04] jbicha: on an unrelated topic, you should be able to run "make pot" as shorthand to update the translation template. [20:04] (for ubuntu-docs) [20:05] jbicha, nope [20:05] what's the browser? === mdke_ is now known as mdke [20:05] mdke_: oh, it's magic then? [20:06] yeah [20:06] if you have done ./autogen.sh at some point in your tree [20:07] it will only work if you have touched the page files more recently than the pot file [20:07] otherwise it will say "nothing to do" or similar [20:10] knome: ah, it's xubuntu-default-settings [20:17] mdke, "The package is of bad quality" [20:17] mdke, but there is no actual output on it [20:17] mdke, do you want me to "ignore and install" ? [20:18] lol, that's not very nice of XFCE to criticize our packaging! [20:19] it was actually *UBUNTU* software center who did that.. [20:20] oh really? [20:20] crazy [20:21] knome: I don't think the launcher link needs to be updated, it points to file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html which I believe is correct [20:26] mdke, hmm... [20:26] mdke, note that there are relative links to images in the docs [20:26] mdke, so now that you moved the docs to desktop-guide/, the relative links do not work anymore [20:27] mdke, you should be able to edit the paths from xubuntu.ent in lib/ [20:27] mdke, just replace "common/" with "../common/" [20:28] mdke, lines 63, 64, 67 and 77 [20:29] mdke, anyway, installed the package with gedi and it looks fine. [20:29] isap [20:29] meh [20:29] now you (too) know my test-vbox sudo pass :P [21:12] knome: ok, xubuntu.ent is the only file I didn't update the links in, I think [21:13] jbicha: that change is pushed to the branch, so if you are able to upload, that would be great [21:13] what's all this about bad quality? Is that because it is a deb rather than in a repo? [21:14] mdke: knome: uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/12.10.1 [21:15] jbicha: you won't have that fix then I guess [21:16] ah, you did it [21:16] thanks [21:16] :) [21:16] I didn't know if you were done for the night or not [21:16] I didn't get that bad quality warning even when I tried using Software Center to open the .deb [21:17] cool [21:17] alright, perhaps I am done for the night then :) [21:17] I did fix a lintian error though [21:17] thanks, I'm not good at that [21:18] it wasn't your fault, just a left-over maintainer script; instead of fixing it I just dropped it [21:19] :) [21:20] oh, we should probably do whatever that magic is to get universe packages translatable in LP [21:20] not needed, I don't think - we would just use the xubuntu-docs project [21:21] but there is not a lot of point unless we know that the translations can be used by the browser [21:21] ok [21:37] jbicha, I've moved the DocsStringFreeze on the main ReleaseSchedule pages to 9/25. Do you want me to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule ? [21:38] (its still got precise dates in it), also any other place that needs updating? [21:38] if you like, I obviously haven't been using that page since precise [21:39] I think the only other place is an email to -doc, -translators, and -release [21:43] email in composition. [21:43] jbicha, mdke: THANKS! [22:17] hmm, somebody familiar with the launchpad doc teams? [22:17] what's the need for https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc ? [22:18] does people on that team get some access to stuff, since it's a subteam of ~ubuntu-doc? [22:20] no, ubuntu-core-doc has commit access, I don't think ~xubuntu-doc has any extra privileges [22:25] ok, it's okay to approve people to the team as we see fit? [22:26] it's probably equivalent to ~ubuntu-doc-contributors but focused on xubuntu [22:27] you could make the team open if you wanted, or keep it moderated [22:28] jbicha, ok, thanks for the insight [22:30] hmm, could we simply remove the team?