[00:26] robert_ancell: Heh. Launchpad timeout. If that's the bug I'm thinking of, no, I didn't forget to upstream it. [00:27] robert_ancell: colord upstream has totally removed sane support due to crashes; if it looks like my fix clears most of those crashes up sane support will be re-added. [02:09] hi all [02:09] seems my GM45 intel chip still isn't very loved by quantal [02:10] that is most unfortunate [02:10] what are you encountering? [02:11] after logging in from lightdm, unity starts, then after 10s it crashes and restarts, then crashes again after 10s and doesn't restart [02:11] 10s delay is the time when the dash view gets realized [02:11] I filed a bug a while back [02:11] and it is a known issue with the older intel chips [02:11] thumper: what is the bug #? [02:11] oh [02:11] some race condition in the driver [02:11] * thumper looks [02:13] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1043562 [02:13] Launchpad bug 1043562 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[gm45] GPU lockup EIR: 0x00000010 PGTBL_ER: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x60020100" [High,Triaged] [02:20] I should be updating my gtk ppa to this version, right https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/gtk+3.0/3.5.18-0ubuntu2 ? Not 3.5.18-0ubuntu1 which I can currently download from the archives? [03:54] Good morning [03:59] Morning pitti. [04:00] hey TheMuso, how are you? [04:00] pitti: Not too bad thanks, yourself? [04:01] quite fine, thanks! [04:01] hey robert_ancell [04:01] pitti, hello [04:02] robert_ancell: how's glib doing? [04:02] pitti, i'm building it in a PPA right now, doesn't like to build locally [04:03] * TheMuso wonders whether GTK 3.5.16 needs the new glib... I am experiencing some segfaults related to a11y and GTK here, downgrading to 3.5.16 makes the problem go away... [04:03] robert_ancell: you can build locally with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck if you want local .debs for testing (and quick) [04:03] Just building a downgaded package of the first ubuntu revision of 3.5.18 prior to the patch update... [04:03] to see if the problem still persists. [04:03] pitti, oh, that's handy [04:04] robert_ancell: this dbus keyring thingy is really unnerving; I don't know why it does that when building under a running gnome session [04:04] robert_ancell: I looked for something which would create that key (then we coudl add it to debian/rules), or to avoid it (unsetting DBUS_*, etc.), but no luck [04:04] robert_ancell: you saw that glib 2.33.14 was uploaded to experimental today? [04:05] oh, we might just sync that then? [04:05] seems Laney committed it there [04:06] https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=glib2.0&suite=experimental [04:06] wow [04:06] just sync then [04:10] oh, this also disables the glib schema compiler warnings again, good [04:10] d'oh, forgot to specify -proposed [04:10] ah well, I'll watch it === attente_ is now known as attente [05:23] good morning [05:26] bonjour didrocks [05:27] hey pitti, how are you? [05:29] je vais bien, merci! et toi? [05:29] didrocks, good morning [05:29] didrocks, is the libunity release going to be 6.5.2? [05:29] kenvandine: oh, burning the midnight oil? [05:29] yes... sigh [05:29] i am taking today off... so gotta get some stuff finished :) [05:30] so i can go out of town in a few hours [05:30] kenvandine: 6.6 rather [05:30] ok [05:30] cool [05:30] pitti: je continue de tousser encore :/ [05:30] didrocks, i released gwibber [05:30] and preparing the packaging branch [05:30] going to add a build dep for that [05:31] didrocks: argh -- no time to rest and cure it properly, I guess :( [05:31] kenvandine: excellent! pushing to -proposed? [05:31] no... [05:31] oh [05:31] i guess i can [05:31] it'll just dep wait :) [05:31] kenvandine: I think it will make sense :) [05:31] i was going to ask you to upload it later [05:31] but this works :) [05:31] can do as well :) [05:31] kenvandine: indicators -> all is ok? [05:31] can you get chromium-browser out of -proposed for me? [05:31] yeah [05:32] pitti: yeah, the rush will continue today [05:32] kenvandine: will do as well! :) [05:32] didrocks, dbusmenu is still coming [05:32] thx [05:32] kenvandine: ok, excellent, thanks! [05:32] it is ready to go from -proposed to quantal now [05:32] * didrocks continues to do changes in unity now that the latest UIFe/FFe are acked [05:32] bamf and libunity-webapps got promoted [05:33] i am going to make gwibber build dep on libunity-dev >= 6.5.1 (which is what i have in the pkgconfig check) [05:38] kenvandine: Is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/1051801 on your plate? [05:38] Launchpad bug 1051801 in gwibber "gwibber-service crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed] [05:39] kenvandine: looking good to me [05:39] RAOF, yes... that is a dupe though [05:39] i am currently stumped on that crash [05:39] i had barry look at it too, no joy :/ [05:40] kenvandine: You're probably corrupting memory in libdbus by not calling dbus_threads_init_default [05:41] RAOF, do you think that could be in libaccounts-glib and triggered by gwibber calling it with GI? [05:42] RAOF is the libdbus expert now I guess :) [05:42] we need one :) [05:43] RAOF: more colord stuff on the release team list for you man :) [05:45] Hurray! :( [05:45] didrocks, don't distract him from thinking about that crash :) [05:45] heh :) [05:45] ok rls-q-incoming clean for this morning now [05:48] kenvandine: hum, you did upload unity-lens-photos? [05:48] kenvandine: it was part of the testing stack for unity, as it delivers new features [05:48] did you get all manual tests done? [05:49] there was no new features [05:49] oh -photos [05:49] not -videos [05:49] :) [05:49] * didrocks will grab coffee [05:49] kenvandine: go back to do some awesomeness, sorry for the interruption ;) [05:49] no worries [05:50] kenvandine: In the stacktrace on that bug, there's something that's accessing dbus from python; that's going to break, because gdbus accesses dbus on its own thread. [05:51] gwibber-service isn't doing any gdbus yet [05:52] glib *always* does gdbus. [05:52] but... it is using libaccounts-glib [05:52] well.. sure :) [05:52] It's frustrating. It means that glib has broken previously-working code. [05:53] i am reasonable sure it is something to do with logging in with libaccounts-glib [05:53] we stubbed that out so it didn't actually call libaccounts-glib and couldn't get the crash [05:54] but finding a fix... has me stumped [05:54] RAOF, a fix for that would earn you a few beers at UDS :) [05:54] Seriously, I'd try throwing a dbus_threads_init_default() early in gwibber's main. [05:55] That does seem to have fixed a bunch of colord problems. (Possibly exposing more ☺) [05:55] It also fixed everything using gconf. [06:02] dbus.mainloop.glib.threads_init [06:02] RAOF, ^^ [06:03] kenvandine: Ah, it already does? [06:03] no [06:03] * RAOF isn't familiar with what that's hooked up to. [06:03] i don't think it does [06:04] Yeah, looks like that's what you want to call. [06:05] i wish the crash was more predictable... [06:05] Hurray for thread madness! [06:05] i am trying it [06:09] didrocks, hummm... when i unplug i am getting the fallback icon for indicator-power [06:09] perhaps something in that ubuntu-mono upload? [06:09] kenvandine: right, I noticed that yesterday as well, waiting for larsu to connect :) [06:09] ok [06:09] cool [06:09] brb === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [06:37] RAOF, that really might have fixed it! [06:38] GDBus is a hateful blight upon the world :( [06:38] RAOF, you are my hero [06:39] Which is annoying, because if you use *only* gdbus it's quite nice. [06:39] It's just that it'll silently break your code if you happen to interact with dbus in any other way :( [07:07] ok, i am going to get some sleep [07:07] see you guys on monday! [07:12] desrt: Can I bitch at you about gdbus having a critical design bug causing glib to break everything that uses dbus? [07:13] desrt: then, it would be my turn with a dconf-writer race issue [07:13] poor desrt :) [07:14] good morning all [07:16] hey dpm [07:17] bonjour didrocks [07:24] hey, does anyone know where the strings from the power indicator come from? I see "Battery (0:39 to charge)" shown untranslated on my system, even though the strings (if they come from indicator-power) have been translated for a few cycles. It seems that indicator-power has stopped loading those translations? [07:31] dpm: I confirm that the only place where this string is exposed for translation is indicator-power on my system [07:31] dpm: and that it's translated in the .mo file in french as well [07:31] but the english part is loaded [07:31] larsu: hey do you know if you init the gettext support? ^ [07:32] thanks didrocks [07:32] seems like a regression [07:32] didrocks, in indicator-power? Let me checl [07:32] yep [07:32] check [07:32] larsu: "Battery (charged)" is in indicator-power.mo [07:33] msgid "%s (charged)" [07:33] msgstr "%s (chargée)" [07:33] for instance [07:33] but showing in english [07:33] and there is no other strings in other projects exposing it [07:34] larsu: I have a second request then, the icon isn't right if I unplug the cable (like battery discharging) [07:34] larsu: still on the unity side, not sure if you can give it a look, should be a mismatching symlink [07:34] didrocks, indicator-power doesn't have a separate service, only the plugin that gets loaded in the panel [07:35] that probably messes with translations, right? [07:37] didrocks, unity-panel-service doesn't intialize gettext, but I guess it would be the wrong domain anyway [07:37] larsu: yeah, I think the gettext domain is different [07:37] how does this work for the others? indicator-power is the only to be in that case? [07:37] (no external service) [07:37] didrocks, I think so, yes [07:38] is it possible for the plugin to change the gettext domain before loading each strings? [07:38] and restore afterwards [07:38] tbh, I don't know [07:38] didrocks: larsu: so you guys merged https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/gtk/ubuntugtk3_nmenomic_patch/+merge/125169 that fixes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/896740 How shall i update the bug? [07:38] Launchpad bug 896740 in appmenu-gtk "With appmenus context-menu shortcut options in nautilus do not work properly. E.g. I need to press R twice to select Rename and then hit Return to select it." [High,In progress] [07:38] larsu: 37 strings [07:39] mark all those as Invalid and add the "gtk" project and set as fix released there? [07:39] didrocks, where? In i-power? [07:39] tsdgeos: exactly, thanks! [07:39] larsu: yep [07:39] didrocks: oki [07:40] tsdgeos: you can tell it's fixed in 3.5.18-0ubuntu2 [07:40] didrocks, I wonder why this wasn't a problem before... [07:40] larsu: TBH, I think it was, it's not the first time I'm noticing that [07:40] larsu: let me start my netbook on precise [07:41] if I can find my cable power [07:42] didrocks, the real solution here is to move the logic into a separate service, which we are planning on doing anyway next cycle [07:42] didrocks: any hint of the exact name i shall use? gtk? gtk3? can't really find it :_/ [07:43] didrocks, but that would be too much change this late in the cycle. I think nothing else in the panel is using gettext, so we might get away with setting the domain of indicator-power onto the whole panel [07:43] slightly hackish, but.... [07:44] larsu: sweet, I can't get anymore unity3d running on my precise netbook [07:44] larsu: however, unity-2d has it translated [07:44] larsu: as it's using the service, it seems that something changed, right? [07:44] tsdgeos: gtk+3.0 [07:44] didrocks, charles changed the implementation quite a bit, but I think it was always without a separate process [07:44] didrocks, do you have a indicator-power process running? [07:45] (on precise) [07:45] larsu: let me look after unf**** my session :) [07:45] haha [07:45] didrocks: and now more questions (i'm on newbiew mode) i got the "precise" subthingie in gtk+3.0, how do i add the Quantal one [07:45] ? [07:46] larsu: yep, no service [07:46] tsdgeos: no need to add the Quantal one as it's fixed [07:46] tsdgeos: the main task is Quantal [07:47] tsdgeos, but for the record: "nominate for series" [07:47] ok i see [07:47] it's only used to track bugs we want to track [07:47] and we don't track them once fixed :) [07:47] larsu: not everyone can do that, you need special launchpad powers :) [07:47] even for nominating now [07:47] and you need to be on the downstream task [07:48] oh yeah right, I forgot that I got moved into that special group recently ;) [07:48] :) [07:48] well, I left https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/896740 as tidy as i could, appreciate if you could make sure i did it correctly [07:48] Launchpad bug 896740 in gtk+3.0 "With appmenus context-menu shortcut options in nautilus do not work properly. E.g. I need to press R twice to select Rename and then hit Return to select it." [Undecided,New] [07:48] larsu: you are special! [07:48] \o [07:49] tsdgeos: put the main gtk+3.0 task as fix released [07:49] otherwise, looks good [07:49] larsu: so something changed, maybe in the unity panel service? [07:49] didrocks: ok, done [07:50] tsdgeos: looking good, thanks! [07:50] didrocks, I don't think so, that hasn't been touched a lot recently. I'm digging in the precise sources of i-power right now, let's see what I can find [07:50] didrocks, otherwise, charles will probably be able to help us (when he's awake ;) ) [07:51] larsu: yep :) [07:51] larsu: so that + the icon (the second one is probably more trivial) [07:52] didrocks, maybe I messed up the icon renaming, I'll have a look right after this [07:52] didrocks, got it! [07:53] didrocks, the old implementation called g_dgettext, which you can pass the domain directly [07:53] the new implementation uses _(), which uses the default domain [07:54] we need more developers using different languages [07:54] * larsu should switch to german.... [07:55] didrocks, you'll get a fix today [07:55] larsu: excellent, thanks! [07:55] dpm: ^ [07:56] larsu: yeah, please use your desktop in your language! don't hate it :) [07:56] dpm: did you get a bug for it? [07:59] didrocks, I haven't filed one, as I first wanted to confirm it. Shall I just file a bug? [08:00] larsu, didrocks, our ever amazing translations community to the rescue: it was split out into a new file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/indicator-power/quantal/view/head:/src/device.c [08:00] and it includes glib/gi18n.h, instead of glib/gi18n-lib.h [08:01] using dgettext(), that's what larsu changed [08:01] larsu: maybe a comment on the first use so that the change doesn't regress? [08:01] telling it's loaded in process of the unity-panel-service [08:01] didrocks, yup [08:05] didrocks, actually, dpm's fix is the same as mine with much less work: gi18n-lib redefines _() to call g_dgettext [08:05] pitti: thanks! mbiebl finished it up last night, was going to sync this morning [08:07] Laney: excellent then :) [08:07] I think we did that in another package [08:07] a couple of cycles ago [08:07] I don't remember which one TBH [08:07] didrocks, do you want a new release for that or can you pull the one revision in the package? [08:08] larsu: I'll gladely steal the commit :) [08:08] didrocks, cool, I'll test and upload in a bit, no need to wait for charles to review for this tiny thing [08:09] larsu: right, and I'll confirm it as well [08:09] yep [08:15] didrocks, argh, what do I need to install to make `LANG=de_DE ./program` work? [08:16] I installed german from the "Language Support" thing in g-c-c [08:21] larsu: yeah, the language support through g-c-c should set it to you [08:23] Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale. [08:28] didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-power/i18n-lib [08:28] didrocks, I'll push it to trunk when you tell me it works ;) [08:30] larsu: ok, testing :) [08:51] didrocks, icon fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-mono/lp1001229/+merge/125430 [08:52] didrocks, you were right, the link target for the battery-full-symbolic were wrong: they were missing the .svg extension [08:53] larsu: ah! excellent, thanks! [08:57] larsu: sorry, got other discussions [09:03] larsu: translation fix confirmed [09:03] larsu: you can merge it to trunk [09:03] didrocks, will do [09:03] dpm, thanks for pointing me to that other header! [09:04] larsu, np, thanks for the quick fix! [09:05] didrocks, it's in trunk [09:05] larsu: and it's uploaded :) [09:05] still waiting on ubuntu-mono to build now [09:06] larsu: and correct icons (at least, for almost fully charged battery) loaded! [09:07] didrocks, great thanks [09:08] larsu: thanks to you :) [09:36] The "extra stereo" plugin for audious should be deleted, it clearly introduces artifacts into the mix === doko_ is now known as doko [09:42] pitti, while you are at cairo, there is the cairao-c5 ftbfs (test cases), however the 1.8 package is a mess [09:42] see the debian report [09:48] doko: I don't see a package cairo-c5, caiaro-c5, or anything similar? [09:49] (also, I won't get to that today -- beta freeze rush) [09:50] pitti, cairo-5c [10:00] guys what's your opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/1005677 and the two branches i made to fix it https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ayatana-scrollbar/qt_no_overlay_scrollbar/+merge/124697 and https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ayatana-scrollbar/blacklisted_libs/+merge/124873 ? I'm getting from Cimi that he is busy and can't review it [10:00] Launchpad bug 1005677 in ayatana-scrollbar "Re-emergence of "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'" Makes vlc and other Qt apps crashing crashing" [High,In progress] [10:01] Sincerely i prefer the first one but Cimi says he doesn't like distro patching (and i can agree to that) [10:09] didrocks: oh, nobody packaged gvfs 1.13.8 and .9? I guess I should do that today then [10:10] pitti: oh? I asked you on Monday, but didn't get any answer, I didn't dare touching it, sorry [10:10] np; we have pretty good test coverage for it now :) [10:11] pitti: heh, you can upload with your eyes closed :) [10:11] * didrocks goes back to the PS/unity """party""" [10:11] if I upload to -proposed, yes :) [10:17] yeah that's where the real party is === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:49] larsu: magically, the indicator-power icons are fixed ;-) [11:49] Laney, ;) [11:57] Laney: larsu: thank you. I was scared that it will be default =) [12:11] hmmm, installing the quantal daily CD (amd64) in VirtualBox fails to install the bootloader. known issue? [12:20] xnox: any idea? ^ [12:20] Sweetshark: hey! [12:21] Sweetshark: you have one bug on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html, do you think you will have the time to work on it? :) [12:21] it was targetted for beta2 [12:22] Sweetshark: no idea. Was fine yesterday... but there is reported jenkins failure today (?!) bug bug 1053317 [12:22] Launchpad bug 1053317 in ubiquity "Failed to symbolic-link /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-15-generic to initrd.img:File exists at /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-3.5.0-15-generic.postinst line 614. on amd64 installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053317 === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [12:28] does anyone know what the indicator-sync is? I've just noticed that new translations template in the queue and approved it [12:28] it seems the template was uploaded yesterday the first time [12:28] didrocks: hmm, like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1216635/ ? [12:29] Sweetshark: the metapackage is in universe? [12:30] dpm, it's the indicator that should handle and display things such as Ubuntu One sync progress. U1 should be updated to work with it, which is, I believe, in progress or done. [12:31] davidcalle, ok, thanks. [12:31] didrocks, hey [12:31] didrocks: eh, no. how does micahg get that? the libreoffice source package is in main. [12:32] hey davidcalle! [12:32] Sweetshark: can you please check with him? [12:34] didrocks, there has been a new photo lens upload yesterday, but the packaging has lost a depends (was here in the previous distro version). Neither mterry or kenvandine are around, would you have the time to fix it? (or point me to the good person) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-photos/+bug/1053257 [12:34] Launchpad bug 1053257 in unity-lens-photos "unity-lens-photos crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/unity-lens-photos/flickr_scope.py: No module named oauthlib.oauth1" [Medium,In progress] [12:35] davidcalle: ok, will do it [12:35] didrocks, thanks :) [12:36] yw :) [12:38] didrocks: i am asking back on the bug what that is about. [12:41] ok [12:43] davidcalle: do you know where the packaging branch is? [12:43] seems ubuntu/unity-lens-photos [12:43] didrocks, don't know, looking for it [12:43] davidcalle: I guess it's that one [12:44] didrocks, yes it is [12:45] davidcalle: ok, a lot of uploads are missing in this [12:45] davidcalle: I'm just adding the dep [12:45] didrocks, and it misses a depends on python3-oauthlib [12:46] didrocks, yes, mterry took over it for some time. [12:46] without pushing the branch and following the merge-upstream workflow :/ [12:47] davidcalle: gir1.2-gdata-0.0 dep is needed as well, right? [12:47] didrocks, it is, yes. Missing too? [12:47] yep [12:47] :/ [12:51] davidcalle: uploaded [12:51] didrocks, merci! [12:52] de rien :) [12:54] RAOF: sure. what's up? [13:32] didrocks: saw my merge proposal? [13:33] cyphermox: hum, not really, did you subscribe me to it? [13:33] yeah, you're reviewer [13:33] it's for unity [13:33] cyphermox: link? [13:33] https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/quantal/unity/indicator-sync-recommends/+merge/125342 [13:34] cyphermox: it's already installed by default? [13:34] didrocks: it's not [13:34] U1 will need it [13:34] cyphermox: do we have a FFe? [13:34] acked by the release team [13:34] and an UIFe? [13:34] it's packaged and there as been a MIR [13:35] and about the FFe/UIFe? [13:35] there is no UIFe/FFe for having it included by Unity; oops [13:35] I mean, for having it installed by default? [13:35] no [13:35] ok, I won't include it then until that is done [13:35] dobey: ^^ [13:35] cyphermox: it's not that one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/1042343 [13:35] Launchpad bug 1042343 in ubuntuone-client/trunk "[FFE] Ubuntu One integration with Q sync indicator" [High,Fix committed] [13:36] that sounds more like for U1 [13:36] 15:34:37 cyphermox | U1 will need it [13:36] isn't what yo utold? [13:36] your told* [13:36] you* [13:36] yes [13:36] it's not that [13:36] that is for U1 using the new API [13:36] Laney: ok :) [13:36] but it is rather pointless to use that if there's nowhere to render it [13:36] cyphermox: tell me when they will have followed the process, they need an acked FFe and UIFe [13:37] hrmm [13:37] I suppose it will impact screenshots of the desktop [13:37] yeah [13:38] hence the ask for UIFe :) [13:38] indeed [13:38] I wonder what happens when there is nothing syncing, hopefully it's passive then [13:40] and will adding indicator-sync integration mean we can finally kill the U1 shortcut by default in the launcher? [13:45] jbicha: why would we kill the shortcut? i suppose we could at some point, but it doesn't seem really necessary [13:48] jbicha: why kill the shortcut? [13:48] you need to configure it somehow at first [13:48] and yeah, the sync indicator integration will only work when it's actually configured and running [13:48] we have way too much stuff in the launcher by default; once configured, I pretty much never use the control panel [13:48] remove the libreoffice shortcuts by default [13:48] I don't know how indicator-sync shows things while they aren't syncing, I'm hoping it's PASSIVE, so not showing at all if there is no operation in progress [13:49] the U1 shortcut is really just an advertisement & not used much so it seemed an easier target for my frustration [13:50] hehe [13:50] cyphermox: well if ubuntuone-syncdaemon isn't running (which it isn't by default, as it only runs after you set up u1), and the indicator integration comes from there… [13:50] cyphermox: it's in the spec, it shows if there's any client registered on it, whether there's activity or not [13:50] but sure, we would get rid of Calc & Impress by default [13:50] jbicha: OTOH, the control panel is reachable from the... control panel [13:50] ykwim ;) [13:50] which is more logical [13:50] anyway, have to run real quick. brb [13:51] bah, it's similar to Software Center. do you use it much? [13:51] charles, which, imo, is the weakest part of the spec. It shouldn't show when it's not syncing [13:52] some people might; jsut like some people might use the U1 control center regularly to see how well their transfers are going or if the right directories get synced [13:52] I have a very difficult time trying to get people to use apt-get, so yes, Software Center is very useful & used more than once [13:52] larsu: yeah I was kind of surprised at that ... a lot of the indicator design choices lately have been hide-it-until-you-need-it [13:52] charles: oh, so it always does show? [13:52] :) [13:52] charles, exactly [13:52] cyphermox: it shows if there's any client registered on it, whether there's activity or not [13:53] ah, well that's probably not too bad [13:53]