[00:27] <jbicha> balloons: hey, are you around & not too busy?
[00:28] <phillw> jbicha: he was watching a film on the television
[00:28] <jbicha> maybe I should just ping him on Monday
[00:29] <phillw> jbicha: he is lurking some where, is there any thing I can help with?
[00:30] <jbicha> I just was wondering what Ubuntu GNOME should be doing to participate in tagging along for Beta2
[00:30] <phillw> jbicha: I'm watching 2 dogs atm (I was watching Casino Royale)
[00:31] <phillw> jbicha: as a community build, you can follow the rules of 'official'.
[00:31] <jbicha> oh, where are those rules?
[00:32] <jbicha> I was looking at the testcases on the iso tracker and those look mostly specific to the installer working
[00:33] <jbicha> I'm hoping to find someone to step in to be the QA guy for Ubuntu GNOME as I really don't want that extra responsibility, but we'll see...
[00:33] <phillw> jbicha: I'm not sure if you will be allowed on iso-tracker. I'm lubuntu in back ground and they did have to re-write the "rules" on adopting a new flavour (read as had to write it from scratch)
[00:34] <phillw> jbicha: all teams would give their back teeth to have QA co-ordinators
[00:34] <jbicha> haha, yeah I haven't given up hope though :)
[00:36] <jbicha> I know it took lubuntu a long time to be accepted as official flavor
[00:36] <phillw> jbicha: you need some one with several years experience of ubuntu. A QA person needs to know the various areas and other teams. As the mentoring system ceased I'm doing my best with 4 new ones
[00:36] <jbicha> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors use of the iso tracker is a perk for official flavors
[00:37] <jbicha> 4 new QA people? for lubuntu in particular?
[00:38] <phillw> jbicha: even when lubuntu was accepted, the work to adjust the system to bring in a new flavor actually stopped lubuntu by one cycle.
[00:38] <jbicha> not enough infrastructure?
[00:38] <phillw> jbicha: they are not QA people, they are just learning the various areas that make ubuntu 'happen'
[00:39] <phillw> jbicha: there was no proceedure to bring in a new flavour.
[00:41] <phillw> jbicha: but, if you have support, then the other teams will treat you as if are adopted. Let the paper work catch up later :D
[00:42] <jbicha> oh wow, I didn't realize Xubuntu had been official for so long
[00:44] <phillw> yeah, they were in at the start... as things progressed there was no real system to bring in a new one. So, when gnome-ubuntu gets in - you can thank lubuntu, as they had to write up a set of rules to bring in a new flavour :D
[00:51] <balloons> phillw, lol
[00:51] <balloons> i don't watch tv :-)
[00:51] <phillw> wb balloons
[00:53] <phillw> balloons: I hope my chat with jbicha does not break any rules, I am just explaining what happened with lubuntu so he knows what to expect with gnome-ubuntu
[00:53] <jbicha> phillw: added my guess at "first official releases" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors
[00:53] <balloons> and yes, the dogs called
[00:54] <phillw> dogs?
[00:54] <balloons> yep, dogsitting this evening
[00:54] <balloons> anyways, jbicha phillw is more or less correct
[00:54] <balloons> you'll need to get recognition as a flavor
[00:55] <balloons> as to how.. well, I guess phillw has laid it out :-)
[00:55] <phillw> balloons: ah, I've got rid of the 2 border collies & parents for the weekend :)
[00:55] <balloons> I don't have any direct knowledge on thay
[00:55] <balloons> *that
[00:56] <jbicha> is there a checklist the flavors use to certify a milestone?
[00:56] <phillw> jbicha: there is now a system to bring in a new flavour
[00:57] <jbicha> phillw: I've just been reading & re-reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors
[00:57] <balloons> jbicha, the release team sets that.. in conjunction with the flavor
[00:58] <balloons> you need to test and pass your testcases
[00:58] <jbicha> I'm guessing the Tech Board would want 6 months of activity since 6 months is a magic number but that's not specifically stated
[00:58] <balloons> or have a reason you didn't pass and rleease note it
[00:58] <jbicha> & the testcases are basically installability?
[00:58] <phillw> jbicha: WOW!!! I've never seen that page.
[00:58] <jbicha> phillw: oh, is there another process?
[00:59] <jbicha> that page may be outdated
[00:59] <phillw> jbicha: no, that is the system that was written from scratch to get lubuntu in.
[00:59] <phillw> I was not involved in the process
[01:02] <phillw> jbicha: I can see why you want a QA person, as I'm sure balloons will agree such people are in short supply.
[01:03] <balloons> jbicha, more or less yes
[01:04] <balloons> there's also some post-installation stuff
[01:04] <balloons> but iso testing is about installing
[01:04] <balloons> as far as post-install stability, etc.. again, I don't know.. once your a flavor with releases, you get choices
[01:04] <balloons> more or less, you need to support whatever it is you say you will support
[01:04] <balloons> I would recommend starting small if you don't have alot of people
[01:05] <balloons> only support 1 or 2 images :-)
[01:05] <balloons> and don't do LTS's at first, etc
[01:05] <jbicha> we're only doing i386 and amd64 desktop
[01:06] <jbicha> 12.10 will include GNOME Classic but we're definitely going to talk about dropping that by default for 13.04
[01:06] <jbicha> Edubuntu still ships that session
[01:07] <jbicha> ok, that's a good idea to not do the LTS
[01:14] <phillw> jbicha: lubuntu does not issue LTS - we do not have enough devs to support such a commitment
[01:15] <phillw> jbicha: as your flavour comes on line, please feel free to nag me to death - I'm one of those guys who have "Seen it, Done it and got the "T"-Shirt"
[01:16] <phillw> I will assist in any way I can.
[01:16] <jbicha> yeah, 5 years is crazy
[01:16] <jbicha> phillw: thanks!
[01:18] <jbicha> oh I guess several flavors just did 3 years this time but that's still a long time
[01:36] <phillw> jbicha: to be accepted means that Canonical say you are worthy of it.
[01:37] <phillw> that is, correctly, a thorough process.
[01:41] <kanliot> yup\
[01:41] <phillw> wb kanliot
[07:58] <silverarrow> I have ruined my update manager with quantal
[07:59] <silverarrow> I happen to boot computer with quantal cd in the slot, and when update mangager launched its` self I got a mess
[14:24] <knome> balloons, you should update your blog theme a bit :)
[14:31] <silverarrow> is it possible to come with requests for ubuntu?
[14:31] <silverarrow> I so wish RadeonTop could be found in repositories
[14:32] <silverarrow> especially for ppc where graphics driver can be difficult
[14:33] <silverarrow> generally really
[14:33] <silverarrow> have you ever heard of this ? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEzNTM
[14:33] <silverarrow> all new to me
[14:34] <jbicha> silverarrow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[14:35] <sagaci> 13.04
[14:36] <silverarrow> thanks
[14:37] <silverarrow> so debian is the way? or "simply" build it yourself
[14:38] <silverarrow> horror
[15:09] <smartboyhw> silverlightning, LOL
[15:15] <silverarrow> are you on perpetual inhalation of nitrous gas?
[15:16] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:16] <silverarrow> yes, there it was confirmed
[18:20] <ade> Hate to state the obvious here but does anyone else find that when running the daily builds under a VM, that they don't get a lot of bugs?
[18:28] <ade> I only run a true hw test on the live session testcase and seem to discover a lot more issues this way. Just wondered if anyone else found the same??
[18:33] <phillw> ade: VM's are designed to be very 'gentle' with operating systems :)
[18:36] <phillw> I did cover the differences a little at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/TheStages
[18:37] <ade> Thanks, I will have a browse at that now.
[18:56] <knome> balloons, do you know how much can modify the themes with blogger?
[19:26] <phillw> knome: balloons is usually afk at weekends, he has a life :P
[19:26] <balloons> knome, you can do custom css html whatev's
[19:26] <balloons> mine needs help
[19:26] <knome> balloons, as i said ;)
[19:26] <knome> balloons, i think simply updating the wall could do wonders
[19:27] <balloons> the wall?
[19:27] <balloons> background image?
[19:27] <knome> the background image
[19:27] <balloons> ahh yes
[19:27] <balloons> I'm not a web person
[19:27] <knome> heh
[19:27] <balloons> or a graphics person
[19:27] <balloons> but I do get the point
[19:27] <balloons> I know what I'd like to change..
[19:27] <balloons> :-)
[19:27] <knome> what then?
[19:27] <knome> i could play around a bit with the bg image
[19:27] <phillw> good afternoon balloons :)
[19:27] <knome> i mean, i could do with some practicing ;)
[19:28] <phillw> and there was me covering for you :P
[19:28] <balloons> howdy
[19:28] <balloons> knome, i'd be happy to get a custom theme
[19:28] <knome> balloons, lol, i don't mean a custom theme .P
[19:28] <balloons> what all would you need access to?
[19:28] <balloons> lol
[19:28] <knome> balloons, just refreshing the wall ;)
[19:29] <balloons> well.. I mean, and optimized version of what I have
[19:29] <balloons> if that makes sense
[19:29] <knome> well, i suppose anything that is needed to edit the css/html :P
[19:29] <knome> i would've created a blogger account, but they told me i can't delete the account afterwards
[19:29] <knome> bleh
[19:37] <knome> balloons, or alternatively, you can paste me what you see now, and i can simply send you new text/files
[19:44] <balloons> knome
[19:44] <balloons> lol
[19:44] <knome> are you lolling at me! how rude!
[19:46] <balloons> sorry
[19:46] <knome> j/k ;)
[19:46] <balloons> broken english
[19:46] <balloons> one
[19:46] <balloons> word
[19:46] <balloons> answers
[19:46] <knome> got to keep you on your toes
[19:47] <balloons> ok, lets see
[19:49] <balloons> gnome; http://pastie.org/private/dtevyex7xwawrvwlb6ejgg
[19:49] <knome> ok, let's see
[19:52] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/other/bllns.png
[19:52] <knome> shot from private setup
[19:52]  * balloons noticed i typed gnome instead of knome
[19:52] <balloons> long day
[19:52] <balloons> ohh!
[19:52] <balloons> lookie there
[19:52] <balloons> that's amazing
[19:53] <knome> that's two different images
[19:53] <knome> 271.3KB vs 4.5KB
[19:54] <phillw> balloons: just as a quick ask... as the desktop test cases have been proof read, how do we mark then as done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/QuantalTestcaseUpdates so people can see we are making progress?
[19:55] <balloons> by marking them done
[19:55] <balloons> I'm confused
[19:55] <balloons> I've got to walk the dog again.. hey.. dogsitting
[19:57] <phillw> balloons: give me a ping when you are back.
[20:42] <kanliot> phillw u there
[20:48] <phillw> kanliot: indeded I am :)
[20:48] <kanliot> i'm concerned that we might be overtesting some ubiquity features.  for example we're doing auto-resize tests for each distro and each ISO.  IMHO, since the ubiquity code is identical across ISO,distro we're overtesting.  likewise we're overtesting manual partitioning.  if it works for amd64, it should work for i386. really we're spending a lot of time testing ubiquity features, when we really should be testing installation cases.  like inst
[20:48] <kanliot> alling on dual-boot systems
[20:49] <kanliot> we should also be testing when ubiquity asks to "upgrade your installation"
[20:50] <phillw> kanliot: I have read your page that discusses this, and your points are valid.
[20:50] <kanliot> so we're busting our ass testing ubiquity features on every single iso
[20:50] <kanliot> but really not testing other ubiquity stuff that should be tested.
[20:50] <kanliot> like testing resize on ext4 AND NTFS
[20:50] <phillw> kanliot: if the installer fails, nothing else can happen
[20:51] <phillw> kanliot: if you cannot install, then you cannot report a bug?
[20:51] <kanliot> yeah we have to test the iso
[20:51] <kanliot> but we're doing ubiquity testing
[20:51] <kanliot> don't you think?
[20:52] <phillw> kanliot: again, I repeat... If you cannot install a system, you cannot report bugs nor test anything else.
[20:53] <kanliot> why are we testing each ubiquity feature for each iso?
[20:53] <noskcaj> after the 12.10 release we should look into it kanliot
[20:53] <kanliot> and if you use the livecd, you can report bugs
[20:53] <noskcaj> then we will have somme time
[20:55] <kanliot> i was asked to look into the issue
[20:55] <phillw> kanliot: because if you cannot actually install the system, how do you report a bug? "I tried to install, and it did not work" is of no use to the devs :P
[20:55] <kanliot> livecd can report bugs
[20:55] <phillw> noskcaj: please feel free to put a chat up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Kanliot
[20:56] <kanliot> and you can't tell me we arent overtesting
[20:56] <kanliot> by testing auto resize for each of the isos
[20:56] <kanliot> and testing manual paritioning for each of the isos
[20:56] <kanliot> and testing the auto installer on each of the isos, when can test that in one go, by merging it with the livecd test
[20:57] <phillw> kanliot: with reference to your complaint, I have ubuntu 9.10 and lubuntu 12.04 on two pen sticks.
[20:57] <phillw> I cannot confirm your bug, mine work perfectly
[20:58] <kanliot> i don't understand
[20:59] <phillw> the slow response of peristance.
[21:00] <kanliot> well i bought my usb stick this year, and it's buggy on it
[21:01] <ade> Hey all
[21:01] <kanliot> maybe last year
[21:01] <phillw> kanliot: one thing that MicroSoft did bring in was 'certified' usb sticks after vista crashed and burned
[21:02] <ade> I have only ran a couple testcases the past few days but can confirm that a persistent partitioned USB almost always runs slow pre-boot when performing the past few live testcases
[21:03] <kanliot> thanks ade
[21:03] <phillw> kanliot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost there is a massive difference between $1 chips and $10 ones.
[21:03] <phillw> wb ade
[21:03] <ade> It seems for some reason they also result in a couple of unique display issues too, which I found very strange
[21:05] <kanliot> i'm mainly concerned that we're doing 10x more testing of ubiquity than we should
[21:05] <ade> Course I can only vouch for Ubuntu, see todays quantal build test for a link to the bugs
[21:05] <kanliot> and why isn't there a testcase for actual hardware?
[21:05] <kanliot> if i'm doing ubiquity testing on a vm
[21:06] <kanliot> i'm not going to find actual issues with the iso
[21:06] <ade> 100% of the time if I spot an issue in, say partition testcase, it will be the same in all the others. That said I can still see the point in testing each one.
[21:07] <noskcaj> kanliot: yes you are
[21:07] <ade> Don't think I have found an issue with a vm test yet - hw all the way
[21:07] <kanliot> there are no test cases for testing with actual hardware
[21:08] <silverarrow> how is ubiquity and ppc tested then?
[21:08] <kanliot> that's up to the tester
[21:09] <silverarrow> and if the testers turn out to report no luck with ubiquity?
[21:09] <kanliot> silver arrow, you can see how many isos we have
[21:09] <silverarrow> who is clever enough to trouble shoot ?
[21:09] <kanliot> why are we testing auto-resize for each one?
[21:09] <silverarrow> yeah
[21:10] <kanliot> we're testing ubiquity over and over
[21:10] <silverarrow> it is one of the first features users meet
[21:10] <silverarrow> it has to look good
[21:11] <silverarrow> ...random answer really
[21:11] <silverarrow> ;-)
[21:11] <kanliot> if the auto-resize works on i386, why do we have to test on amd64.
[21:11] <kanliot> and for kubuntu, edubuntu, etc
[21:11] <kanliot> we're testing the auto-resize feature over and over
[21:12] <silverarrow> qirks are common
[21:12] <kanliot> but we're testing auto-resize
[21:12] <kanliot> how many quirks in just that feature
[21:13]  * phillw grabs toast 
[21:13] <kanliot> that deserve so much testing
[21:13] <kanliot> for each ISO
[21:13] <silverarrow> ok ok
[21:13] <kanliot> no it's subtle
[21:14] <kanliot> not obvious at all
[21:18] <silverarrow> I suppose desktop environments behaves differently
[21:20] <kanliot> ubiquity is going to be the same component across ISOs
[21:21] <silverarrow> and it runs independend of desktop environment ?
[21:22] <kanliot> what would you test in ubiquity that would break across DEs
[21:22] <silverarrow> I`m thinking of all the ppc browser plugin packages that is all broken
[21:22] <kanliot> ?
[21:23] <silverarrow> I know I have had odd cases with ubiquity before
[21:23] <silverarrow> old screens and major hassle to reach the forward and feature buttons
[21:24] <silverarrow> if they are outside the screen it is problematic
[21:24] <silverarrow> wide screen is not that good for all
[21:25] <kanliot> yup
[21:25] <kanliot> write a test case for wide screen
[21:25] <kanliot> but i was thinking of doing so
[21:25] <kanliot> would you need to write that test case for i386 and amd64?
[21:25] <kanliot> both of them?
[21:26] <silverarrow> you tell me
[21:26] <ade> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1039762
[21:27] <silverarrow> freeze is the worst horror
[21:27] <silverarrow> just not working
[21:27] <ade> see #7 what the hell???
[21:27] <silverarrow> you have to be able to access feature
[21:28] <silverarrow> weird
[21:28] <silverarrow> ok, testing is needed
[21:30] <silverarrow> i`m having omlet with chantarelles
[21:30] <silverarrow> they are in season
[21:31] <silverarrow> live session issue
[21:31] <ade> yeah, non-persistent tho?
[21:33] <silverarrow> puppy linux are really good with live session
[21:33] <silverarrow> hardly ever fails
[21:34] <silverarrow> wonder what do
[21:34] <silverarrow> they*
[21:43] <ade> brb