[00:03] <hamitron> general voice commands?
[00:03] <r007> no
[00:03] <r007> *dont know
[00:04] <r007> you can control on your pc with clapping your hand
[00:07] <hamitron> just having a look
[00:07] <hamitron> I'm not the right person to "just know" this
[00:08] <hamitron> you can control the video player totem with a plugin
[00:09] <r007> what do you mean?
[00:11] <hamitron> dunno exactly
[00:12] <hamitron> I assume you want to control more than just a media player?
[00:12] <r007> what is dunno?
[00:13] <r007> i want to run a command in when i clap my hands
[00:14] <hamitron> I'd try the voice recognition stuff personally
[00:14] <hamitron> that may work
[00:16] <r007> i can record a "clap" sound?
[00:16] <hamitron> maybe
[00:16] <ali1234> i expect it would work
[00:16] <ali1234> only one way t find out though
[00:16] <r007> how i can do it?
[00:18] <ali1234> gnome-voice-control
[00:18] <ali1234> !gnome-voice-control
[00:18] <ali1234> ~gnome-voice-control
[00:18] <ali1234> !info gnome-voice-control
[00:20] <ali1234> i dunno, maybe we don't have any software for that
[00:20] <hamitron> according to tomshardware, it is built in
[00:20] <hamitron> in 12.04
[00:21] <r007> i'm on 12.04 with unity
[00:29] <hamitron> CMU sphinx?
[02:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: you awake and happen to know things about RFID/NFC?
[02:48] <ali1234> i know something about it
[02:48] <Azelphur> fun :)
[02:49] <Azelphur> so, I'm trying to get my phone to act as my capital one credit card
[02:49] <Azelphur> my phone can read it, and the data seems to be in exactly the same format as a mag stripe, so there's no query/response security as far as I can see
[02:49] <ali1234> so?
[02:49] <Azelphur> my question is, do you know if it's possible for the phone to pretend to be an rfid tag like the card?
[02:50] <Azelphur> I seem to be getting mixed messages from the internets about this
[02:50] <ali1234> depends on phone
[02:50] <Azelphur> galaxy s3 :
[02:50] <Azelphur> :p
[02:51] <ali1234> NFC is a superset of RFID
[02:51] <Azelphur> I see
[02:51] <Azelphur> so anything RFID can do, NFC can do too?
[02:52] <ali1234> but on a mobile phone you wont have any access to drivers
[02:52] <ali1234> contactless payment cards are not NFC though
[02:52] <ali1234> or rather, they are a super set of NFC
[02:53] <Azelphur> o.O
[02:53] <Azelphur> well, my phone seems to be able to read all the data no problem
[02:53] <ali1234> except for the ones that are not anything at all to do with NFC
[02:53] <ali1234> how do you know it's all the data?
[02:53] <Azelphur> ali1234: I don't for 100%, but it sends out a full magstripe data packet
[02:53] <Azelphur> so I don't think there would be a need for any more data, and it makes sense that they'd use the existing spec
[02:54] <ali1234> NFC is a two way protocol
[02:54] <Azelphur> it is, but I don't think it's used here in any secure way
[02:55] <Azelphur> you just probe the card, and get this reply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stripe_card#Financial_cards
[02:56] <Azelphur> so unless there is any additional packets (why?, all the required data is provided) then it should just be as simple as that
[02:56] <ali1234> account number, name, PVK?
[02:56] <Azelphur> yup
[02:57] <Azelphur> I read all that data off my card using my phone
[02:57] <ali1234> all that stuff is written on the card
[02:57] <ali1234> i mean literally written on the face of the card
[02:57] <Azelphur> yep
[02:57] <Azelphur> it's all you need though, it's the same thing they use in magnetic stripe payments
[02:57] <ali1234> yeah
[02:57] <ali1234> it's probably enough
[02:57] <Azelphur> indeed
[02:58] <ali1234> they limit those transactions
[02:58] <Azelphur> yea, £20 iirc
[02:58] <ali1234> so maybe
[02:58] <Azelphur> £20 limit for NFC, but I still think it'd be cool to be one of the first in the country to go by a mcdonalds with my phone :P
[02:58] <ali1234> you;re far from the first
[02:58] <Azelphur> one of the first :(
[02:58] <ali1234> i know people who've tried to do it
[02:58] <ali1234> an failed
[02:59] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:59] <ali1234> turns out, it's really fiddly and annoying
[02:59] <ali1234> with the official software, you have to enter a PIN on the device
[02:59] <Azelphur> yea
[02:59] <ali1234> then you get like 10 seconds to swipe
[02:59] <Azelphur> \o/
[02:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: I've heard that the pin can be optional, it's not a hardware requirement
[03:00] <ali1234> probably
[03:00] <ali1234> so you can probably do this, i guess
[03:00] <Azelphur> yay \o/
[03:00] <Azelphur> now I just have to keep trying to figure out how, haha
[03:00] <ali1234> get the barclays or whatever app for NFC payments, and reverse engineer it
[03:00] <Azelphur> that's already been done
[03:00] <Azelphur> it depends on a funky orange sim card, as it uses hardware in the sim card instead of the phones built in nfc
[03:01] <Azelphur> just to be assholes and not let anyone else use it, yay vendor locking.
[03:01] <ali1234> http://www.ccsinsight.com/blog/orange-quick-tap-gets-off-to-a-slow-start
[03:01] <ali1234> yeah. you don't need the sim card to decompile the code though
[03:01] <ali1234> then just examine the APIs it uses
[03:02] <ali1234> all you need to do is find a rom which contains it and rip it out and then load it up in IDA or whatever
[03:02] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:02] <ali1234> heh, that blog over a year old
[03:03] <Azelphur> google wallet does it too, and might be a bit better to inspect instead
[03:03] <Azelphur> since it's less fragmented
[03:03] <ali1234> only NFC phone i have is symbian
[03:04] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:04] <Azelphur> the other uglyhack idea I had was to buy a tiny NFC chip and just put it inside my phones case
[03:04] <Azelphur> and clone my card onto it
[03:04] <ali1234> oh, and NFC doesn't work because i downgraded it to the PR1.0, because later version get terrible battery life
[03:04] <Azelphur> lol
[03:04] <ali1234> yeah that idea has already been done
[03:05] <Azelphur> indeed :P
[03:05] <ali1234> some bank got tired of waiting for NF phones, so they just sent out stickers that you stick on your phone. it's just a mini credit card
[03:05] <ali1234> you could just put your credit card... inside the phone
[03:05] <Azelphur> I tried that but it didn't fit :(
[03:06] <ali1234> i'll have to see if i can blag some real NFC phone and some of the test cards
[03:07] <Azelphur> sounds fun
[03:07] <ali1234> maybe i can hack together a reader with arduino
[03:07] <ali1234> any idea what frequency they use?
[03:08] <Azelphur> none at all xD
[03:10] <ali1234> http://www.nxp.com/products/interface_and_connectivity/nfc_devices/series/PN532.html
[03:11] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:11] <ali1234> package type: SOT618
[03:11] <ali1234> well, that blows
[03:12] <Azelphur> :<
[03:13] <ali1234> http://www.adafruit.com/products/364
[03:14] <Azelphur> they want your money :P
[03:15] <ali1234> it's a little bit pricey
[03:15] <ali1234> but it's only like £30
[03:15] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:15] <ali1234> the layout is kind of uneccessarily large
[03:16] <ali1234> i'd like to get a breakout like that with bluetooth and NFC
[03:16] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure they come in one chip these days
[03:16] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:17] <Azelphur> I'mma have to go to sleep for now anyway, will stab more at this tomorrow :D
[03:17] <Azelphur> nn and ty :)
[03:37] <ali1234> hmmmmmm... BFL is the next bitcoin scandal?
[05:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: smaller! https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9875
[05:20] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, modern phones have NFC, mine can read parts of Oyster cards (all of it if I had the secret keys)
[07:18] <Wobbo> EOG has a bug. PNG's working fine, but JPG's have problems. http://wobbo.nl/ubuntu/
[07:21] <ali1234> are these jpegs ok: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/xhtml-print/20050519/tests/A_2_1-BF-01.htm
[07:52] <Wobbo> Only the last one works.
[07:52] <Wobbo> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/xhtml-print/20050519/tests/jpeg444.jpg
[07:53] <ali1234> odd. are you using 12.10?
[07:53] <ali1234> beta?
[07:53] <Wobbo> Nope
[07:53] <ali1234> can you upload the broken jpeg, to rule out corrupted downloads?
[07:54] <ali1234> imagebin.org will do
[07:54] <Wobbo> The problem is only when i with EOG. Firefox/Chrome/Opera are fine.
[07:57] <ali1234> corruption always looks the same if you open the file again?
[07:58] <Wobbo> All jpeg are broken if i whats it whit EOG.
[07:58] <Wobbo> All the 3000 files. LoL
[07:59] <ali1234> so if you close the file and open it again, is the corruption the same, or does it move around?
[07:59] <Wobbo> If i open it whit GIMP there are no problems.
[08:00] <Wobbo> In Nautilus all the images look greet.
[08:00] <ali1234> it looks like memory corruption
[08:01] <ali1234> is your system fully updated?
[08:02] <Wobbo> yes
[08:02] <Wobbo> and its new
[08:03] <ali1234> has it always done this or did it start recently?
[08:03] <ali1234> there is a update got eog which i don't have. installing it, then i will retest
[08:04] <Wobbo> recently
[08:05] <Wobbo> More than 1 or 2 months.
[08:07] <Wobbo> Another reason kan we my screen: http://wobbo.nl/ubuntu/Schermafdruk-01.jpg
[08:07] <ali1234> ah
[08:07] <ali1234> i bet it is a video driver problem then
[08:07] <ali1234> 3 monitors... ati by any chance?
[08:08] <Wobbo> Yep
[08:08] <ali1234> every ati card i've ever used has had graphical corruption like that
[08:08] <Wobbo> For example wine: WoW works ok.
[08:08] <ali1234> usually it affects the whole picture in my experience
[08:09] <Wobbo> mmm...
[08:10] <ali1234> well i updates and eog still works fine
[08:10] <Wobbo> What is the best alternative EOG?
[08:11] <Wobbo> Thanks for your time!
[08:11] <ali1234> i suggest testing with the alternative driver for your card
[08:11] <ali1234> also test without the screen rotated
[08:11] <ali1234> then report a bug with all these results
[08:16] <Wobbo> Thanks!
[09:11] <pinky-> Good Morning All
[09:12]  * pinky- suspects alcohol poisoning for the channel quietness
[09:12] <mattt> morning morning
[09:13] <pinky-> moring
[09:13] <mattt> the house is coooold this morning
[09:13] <mattt> pinky-: how you?
[09:13] <pinky-> I left the heating on all night and woke up in a swaet
[09:13] <pinky-> sweat
[09:13] <pinky-> but I'm doing good.. you?
[09:14] <pinky-> I'm looking forward today towards the F1
[09:14] <mattt> i'm probably going to drive into london
[09:14] <mattt> maybe watch a movie
[09:14] <mattt> where's the F1 today?
[09:14] <pinky-> cool
[09:14] <pinky-> Singapoor
[09:14] <mattt> oooh
[09:14] <pinky-> pore
[09:14] <mattt> my wife is from singapore
[09:14] <mattt> she'll want to see that
[09:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:14] <pinky-> lucky you!
[09:15] <pinky-> good morning brobostigon
[09:15] <mattt> pinky-: i'll tape it now so she can see :)
[09:15] <mattt> morning brobostigon
[09:15] <brobostigon> good morning pinky- and mattt
[09:15] <pinky-> mattt, atm its only playing on the BBC Red Button but it plays later today on BBC1
[09:15] <bigcalm[mob]> Hi peeps :)
[09:16] <pinky-> Good Morning bigcalm[mob]
[09:17] <bigcalm[mob]> Jello
[09:17] <pinky-> nicotine and caffine time here
[09:17] <brobostigon> :)
[09:17] <brobostigon> agreed pinky-
[09:19] <mattt> sorry guys, this is a smoke free channel
[09:19] <popey> morning
[09:19] <pinky-> ok I won't mention again, poit taken
[09:19] <pinky-> point*
[09:20] <pinky-> sorry
[09:20] <mattt> pinky-: nono
[09:20] <mattt> i just meant, no smoking in here :P
[09:20] <brobostigon> any ideas, where i can find england crime statistics.?
[09:20] <pinky-> I'm so used to chatting on Efnet where nothing is off-topic, I must try harder on Freenode
[09:21] <mattt> pinky-: i don't think people mind if you chat about smoking
[09:21] <mattt> but i think swearing and some things are off limit
[09:21] <mattt> since we have younger people come in and out for help
[09:22] <mattt> brobostigon: i remember looking at some sites in the past, but can't remember URLs :-/
[09:22] <brobostigon> mattt: ok, thanks.
[09:22] <bigcalm[mob]> ! Ohmy
[09:23] <bigcalm[mob]> Talking about having a fag is fine I'd say :)
[09:23] <mattt> me too
[09:23] <mattt> BUT NO SMOKING IN THE CHANNEL ITSELF
[09:23] <mattt> :)
[09:24] <bigcalm[mob]>  Hah. How would you tell?
[09:25] <mattt> anyone use irccloud.com?
[09:25] <mattt> and if so, do you have an invite to spare?  :)
[09:26] <bigcalm[mob]> What would that be then?
[09:26] <mattt> bigcalm[mob]: a persistent browser-based irc 'client'
[09:27] <bigcalm[mob]> I see
[09:27] <mattt> it's developed by some of the original last.fm guys
[09:27] <mattt> and looks really nice
[09:31] <pinky-> I came to Freenode for backtrack and ended up staying here, just thought I'd mention so peeps knew
[09:31] <pinky-> just saying
[09:32] <bigcalm[mob]> Right, time to visit the south coast. Toodles
[09:32] <pinky-> I really like this UK channel
[09:32] <pinky-> o/ bye for now
[09:39] <mattt> pinky-: backtrack?
[09:41] <pinky-> yeah penetration testing distro
[09:41] <jacobw> morning
[09:41] <pinky-> they have a channel here #backtrack-linux
[09:42] <ali1234> brobostigon: office of national statistics
[09:42] <ali1234> http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Crime+and+Justice
[09:43] <brobostigon> ali1234: thank you.
[09:48] <pinky-> also on Efnet I used to idle and help out at time in #egghelp and there is a sister channel here with all the same users from Efnet so I styaed for that also
[09:48] <pinky-> lot's of peeps in there I already know
[09:49] <pinky-> so things don't seem so strange
[09:49] <ali1234> egghelp? like "how long does it take to boil an egg?"
[09:49] <pinky-> hehe
[10:05] <pinky-> now people know why I got the ex-chat thingy wrong yesterday;)
[10:07] <pinky-> but I learnt so all is good
[10:07] <jacobw> XChat/
[10:07] <pinky-> hehe
[10:07] <pinky-> ok I'm going to idle now, bbl
[10:10] <jacobw> i'm idling off a hangover this morning :0
[10:10] <jacobw> uh :0 → :)
[10:29] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello
[10:30] <czajkowski> davmor2: who does one poke re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1054460
[10:30] <christel> morning pretties
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> \o christel
[10:30] <brobostigon> morning christel
[10:33] <christel> \o/ morning <3<3
[10:34] <brobostigon> :)
[10:48] <dwatkins> mornin
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:49] <dwatkins> o/ MartijnVdS
[10:49] <czajkowski> elfy: ello
[10:50] <elfy> hi czajkowski :)
[10:50] <elfy> morning everyone else
[10:50] <czajkowski> elfy: so where are you based again ?
[10:50] <dwatkins> My most difficult decision right now is whether to buy yet another hard disk. I feel quite lucky in this regard.
[10:50] <elfy> czajkowski: between southampton and bournemouth
[10:50] <czajkowski> again my geography of UK isn't so great, everthing north of London is The North
[10:50] <czajkowski> ahh down south
[10:50] <pinky-> dwatkins, for RAID?
[10:50] <czajkowski> I at leasat have been to southhampton
[10:50] <elfy> yep :)
[10:50] <dwatkins> pinky-: no, although I do manually mirror stuff
[10:50] <czajkowski> and spent a week down in Dorset
[10:51] <elfy> I try not to czajkowski ...
[10:51] <czajkowski> soo pretty down there and very laid back
[10:51] <czajkowski> and they do like their clotted cream !
[10:51] <dwatkins> I have a couple external USB-attached disks, and am running out of space - I either buy yet another 3 TB disk, or start again and build a little server.
[10:51] <elfy> czajkowski: yea I remember you say - I like Dorset - yes it is laid back down here - downside where I am is there's not much work ...
[10:52] <czajkowski> :/
[10:52] <elfy> I like anyone's clotted cream ;)
[10:52] <czajkowski> less good
[10:52] <czajkowski> not a lover of cream at all
[10:52] <elfy> yep - but such is life
[10:52] <czajkowski> except oddly enough in a sponge cake but fresh cream not clotted
[10:52] <elfy> oh - I'm a lover of anything that's got some fat in it :p
[10:52] <czajkowski> elfy: are you currently working?
[10:53] <elfy> nope
[10:53] <czajkowski> been there for a long time
[10:53] <elfy> got some fingers in pies though
[10:53] <elfy> since June
[10:53] <czajkowski> ah good to hear
[10:54] <czajkowski> yeah tok me a good few months as well
[10:54] <elfy> if I wanted to work in what they delightfully call the 'care industry' I could get 5 jobs tomorrow
[10:54] <christel> mmmpie.
[10:54] <elfy> always pie christel
[10:54] <elfy> or pasties
[10:54] <christel> always!
[10:55] <christel> i had a beautiful rump steak and stilton pie at sweeney & todd's i reading last night
[10:55] <christel> it was scrumptious
[10:55] <elfy> sounds lovely :)
[10:55] <czajkowski> nods I know of someone who's trained to work in a lab but hasnt gotten a job sinc eshe gradeduated 2 years ago and is now working in a old folks home doing care work.
[10:55] <czajkowski> but as she said a jobs a job and least she's earning
[10:55] <elfy> yep
[10:56] <elfy> I'm not sure that the little old dears would take kindly to a 6'4" 16 stone bloke :)
[10:57] <czajkowski> probably well
[10:57] <AlanBell> what do you want to do?
[10:57] <elfy> lol
[10:57] <christel> 6'4 you said? i'll take one
[10:57] <elfy> ha ha ha
[10:57] <elfy> AlanBell: I'm looking for work as a wireman - there are some locally turned up within the last couple of days - so that's good
[10:58] <czajkowski> elfy: what's a wireman?
[10:58] <elfy> wiring harnesses - that sort of thing  - did my training with BAe
[10:59] <czajkowski> ahh
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski jamesw has already directed it to the team but it won't be looked at till Monday
[11:00] <czajkowski> davmor2: thanks
[12:01] <pinky-> w00t F1 is starting on BBC1HD, back in 3 hours.
[12:02] <SuperEngineer> was already there waiting pinky-
[12:02] <pinky-> I was watching Practise sessons on the Red Button before
[12:02]  * SuperEngineer sets Pidgin status to "watching F1"
[12:05] <pinky-> Practice*
[12:06] <pinky-> noun
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> Ooh f1
[12:14] <MartijnVdS> why didn't you say so :)
[12:14] <SuperEngineer> F1: teams forced being used to a set of tyres supplied by vendor saying this what you will use today; teams being forced to used fuel developed by an outside body with no choice; main objects liable to crash at any momemt soon; controlled by a super rich oligarch....
[12:14] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... Formula Windows?
[12:16] <SuperEngineer> the difference between F1 & Windows.... humans [and commentators like EJ]
[12:19] <jacobw> Does Paul Thurott still exist?
[12:22] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: the man from Del Google, he say yes
[12:28] <SuperEngineer> and this years Darwin award goes to... http://tinyurl.com/d5mg6kj [from BBC US news]
[12:34] <jacobw> can't be a darwin award :( he's still able to reproduce
[12:35] <jacobw> given a few assumptions
[12:38] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: ;D
[13:03]  * popey wonders if gord is in far away lands
[13:05]  * SuperEngineer shouts "gord" out of window.... nope - he's not in Gloucestershire
[13:08] <SuperEngineer> [but some bloke saying he created all things told me to stop speaking cockney]
[13:11] <bootlknvf> AlanBell and Anyone else out there ..., Hi there, Just some quick news ... we've set-up a monthly local Ubuntu user LUG meeting in our area. Mr Shuttleworth and others have expessed an interest in attending. I was wondering how best to use the oppourtunity ??
[13:16] <AlanBell> cool
[13:16] <AlanBell> are you in the IOM?
[13:19] <bootlknvf> Yes , How did you guess ?? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=-4.48287391662598&minlat=54.1477584838867&maxlon=-4.48278045654297&maxlat=54.1478652954102
[13:20] <bootlknvf> Where no. 13 ...
[13:23] <popey> excellent
[13:23] <popey> bootlknvf, ask him if he'll do a talk?
[13:23] <bootlknvf> I'm expecting people with beards !
[13:23] <Knightwise> hey everyone
[13:23] <bootlknvf> poepey, OK..
[13:24] <bootlknvf> **popey
[13:24] <popey> hi Knightwise
[13:24] <Knightwise> hey popey :)
[13:24] <Knightwise> who ever said osx was easy should try making a bootable usb drive for ubuntu :)
[13:24] <bootlknvf> Hi did a talk for the local TV station , so I don't seev why not ... it's on archive if you want me to find it ??
[13:26] <bootlknvf> Found it .... http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/isle-of-man-news-archive-search?query=shuttleworth
[13:28]  * bootlknvf drinks his cuppa ...
[13:34]  * popey verifies some SRUs
[13:40] <pinky-> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-now-have-amazon-ads-pre-installed?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[13:41] <bootlknvf> Here is a collection of aggregsted links from dozens of chat rooms for your pleasure (from the last month) http://goo.gl/NqFwJ
[13:41] <AlanBell> do you know (or are you) https://twitter.com/isleofmandan
[13:42] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Yes, I just spoke with him ... Do you ??
[13:42] <AlanBell> only on twitter and mailing lists and such
[13:43] <bootlknvf> Oh Ok .. Well we are meeting up every 3rd saturday of the month ... not sure how to prepare    ... and everything ??
[13:45] <AlanBell> Well I would suggest making sure there is internet and power and tea and coffee and biscuits or cake
[13:45] <AlanBell> and line up someone to talk about something, or some general topic each month
[13:48] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Power - check . Tea - check. Coffee - check, Biscuits - Will buy some, Cake - Will buy some [ Kipling ?? ] , Internet - Noncheck  ... we have internet but only through CAT5 cable until someone knows how to sort out the Mess of a Legacy setup we have at the moment
[13:49] <AlanBell> you can ask people to bring cake and stuff too
[13:50] <popey> bootlknvf, when is the meeting?
[13:50] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, The first talking topic will be "How to get the Isle of Man Linux User Group on the Net " as only 2/3 people will be attending .. we have a project to use contemporary websites to establish the group...
[13:50] <bootlknvf> popey .. its 3rd saturday of every month .
[13:51] <popey> are you aware of lug.org.uk?
[13:51] <popey> they/we can host a website for you.. like iom.lug.org.uk, and a mailing list if you need it
[13:51] <AlanBell> yup, do that
[13:51] <popey> http://iom.lug.org.uk/ looks like you already have one :)
[13:51] <bootlknvf> We've already done that ..
[13:51] <bootlknvf> We need to change the website though..
[13:52] <bootlknvf> Next meeting 20th October 2012 ..
[13:52] <AlanBell> just before the Quantal release
[13:52] <AlanBell> what is the venue?
[13:52] <popey> bootlknvf, i can fix that for you :D
[13:52] <bootlknvf> popey , Is    " lug.im "  abit too silly or should we consider it ???
[13:53] <popey> i dont think it matters
[13:53] <popey> people obsess far too much about things like domain names
[13:53] <popey> when in fact what really matters is having the meetings and making them successful
[13:53] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Check      14 : 19pm above
[13:53] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a grid ref, what kind of place is it?
[13:54] <bootlknvf> It's an office
[13:54] <bootlknvf> With a big board room for chats & coffee etc.
[13:56] <Azelphur> for anyone curious about the security on the wireless credit cards, it's bad xD
[13:56] <AlanBell> http://goo.gl/maps/8Tllp this one
[13:56] <Azelphur> I was looking into it last night with the goal of using my phone in place of my card, I found that my phone can easily read my card, and here's an example packet (with scrambled numbers of course) http://pastebin.com/FAD5j6bG
[13:57] <Azelphur> things that are scary, that.
[13:57] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Sorry I could only find the map ref thingy .. No picturesw really .. wait let me try flickr ..
[13:58] <AlanBell> bootlknvf: Nadine house?
[13:59] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Yep
[13:59] <AlanBell> very nice location :)
[13:59] <bootlknvf> Thank-you , I used to live there actually .. 4 six years. until I moved out.
[14:01] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Just curious but how did you find out it was Nadine House ?? Did it say straight away .. or did you do some digging ????
[14:01] <AlanBell> http://goo.gl/maps/8Tllp says on the front of it
[14:03] <bootlknvf> Ahh yes .. excellent I forgot about streetview  .. yes the meeting will be on the 1st floor behind the flagpole ..
[14:05] <AlanBell> great, maybe do some posters/flyers for libraries/colleges http://spreadubuntu.org/
[14:05] <bootlknvf> At some point I'm going to suggest to the group about putting a webcam on the bottom-end of trhe flagpole to get people to use it as a premium webcam service .. as some people as absolutely obsessed about the IOM for some reason .. this is to generate income for the group .
[14:05] <bootlknvf> ....but it's abit of a long shot
[14:06] <AlanBell> I like this webcam http://www.pier39.com/SeaLion/sea_lion_webcam.htm
[14:06] <bootlknvf> AFAs poster etc .. we're doing that in the new year .. keeping it low key until then.
[14:06] <bootlknvf> opening...
[14:07] <bootlknvf> mmm. I am the walrus ... very John Lennon .. :O)
[14:08] <bootlknvf> but yes excatly the same thingy-ma-jig  ..
[14:09] <AlanBell> also avoid doing silly things that make it an all boys club. If you start expecting people with beards that will be a self-fulfilling prophecy
[14:09] <AlanBell> not that there is anything wrong with beards
[14:09] <AlanBell> just not a very inclusive entry requirement
[14:09] <bootlknvf> Ok .. I was just kidding really.
[14:09] <christel> ho ho ho
[14:09] <AlanBell> yeah I know
[14:10] <bootlknvf> Wow I can zoom in on Golden gate bridge ....
[14:10] <AlanBell> christel: you wouldn't make a good father christmas
[14:10] <brobostigon> lol
[14:10] <christel> :(
[14:28] <Azelphur> so yea, it seems hardware wise that the new wave of android phones has the capability to just scan an RFID card and instantly clone it, just waiting on firmware patches to enable the end user access to this lol
[14:28] <Azelphur> quite cool for my prospect of wanting to pay using my phone instead of my credit card, quite uncool security wise xD
[14:29] <bootlknvf> christel, Why not be one of jis elves ??
[14:29] <bootlknvf> **his
[14:32] <pinky-> Azelphur, yeah I read about NFC hacks the other day too. Through NFC it was possible to upload a malicious file to the device, which allowed us to gain code execution on the device and subsequently get full control over the device using a second vulnerability for privilege escalation
[14:32] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, It would be nice to get a big banner and all stand outside on a sunny day sometime ... Do you think Mark has a spare Ubuntu banner  (or anyone) knocking about that we could use ??
[14:33] <popey> bootlknvf, many loco teams have had banners made pretty cheap
[14:33] <Azelphur> pinky-: it's even worse than that, I'm reasonably sure at this point that the hardware allows you to clone a credit card, for example
[14:33] <popey> some have asked companies to sponsor the printing of it
[14:33] <bootlknvf> Ok, popey ..  I'll keep it in mind.
[14:33] <pinky-> Azelphur, buy one before they get banned;)
[14:34] <Azelphur> I already have a S3 and Nexus 7 both with NFC haha
[14:34] <Azelphur> pinky-: did you see my example showing the data you can lift off a card?
[14:35] <pinky-> Azelphur, no I must of missed that
[14:35] <Azelphur> pinky-: http://pastebin.com/FAD5j6bG
[14:35] <Azelphur> that's what I get off my card (with scrambled numbers)
[14:35] <pinky-> http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/09/19/security-researchers-hack-android-via-nfc-samsung-galaxy-s-iii/
[14:36] <pinky-> ok looking now
[14:36] <bootlknvf> Ok bye for now .. everyone ..
[14:36] <Azelphur> pinky-: it's also interesting as you can tell if someone has a restricted credit card
[14:37] <Azelphur> like you can see if they are restricted to goods and services only (no cash), cash only, atm only, etc
[14:38] <Azelphur> but that's all the info you need to go shopping on amazon, for example
[14:39]  * SuperEngineer passes Azelphur's details to fraud commssion
[14:39] <Azelphur> todo: get rfid blocking wallet
[14:40] <Azelphur> haha
[14:40] <pinky-> Azelphur, did you edit the PAN number?
[14:40] <Azelphur> SuperEngineer: I only found all this because I want to pay (legitimately) with my phone, using my own card, that's still my only goal, I have no desire to start carding xD
[14:40] <Azelphur> pinky-: yea, I scrambled all the numbers for obvious reasons
[14:40] <pinky-> ok makes sense now
[14:40] <Azelphur> and the dates
[14:40] <Azelphur> and the discretionary data
[14:41] <pinky-> very interesting and I hope it's patched soon
[14:42] <Azelphur> it's impossible to "patch"
[14:42] <Azelphur> they'd have to recall all rfid cards.
[14:42] <pinky-> hardcore
[14:42] <pinky-> bad news
[14:42] <Azelphur> also, this whole "you can't run into any issues it's restricted to £20 for NFC payments" thing is obviously a bit of bull
[14:42] <Azelphur> since the £20 limit is implemented by the merchant, not the card/issuer
[14:43] <pinky-> yeah in old days it was same with £50 guarentee cards, you could write a couple of cheques at once and they accepted no problem
[14:44] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:44] <Azelphur> but yea, once this card emulation patch gets done I should be able to use my phone as a credit card, yay.
[14:44] <Azelphur> can't wait to freak out mcdonalds employees by doing it xD
[14:45] <pinky-> hahaha
[14:46] <Azelphur> pinky-: the other hilarious idea I had (which I could do now) get a tiny NFC chip, hide it inside the end of the sleeve of my coat, then touch the reader with my palm and announce that I'm going to "pay using the force"
[14:46] <brobostigon> lol
[14:47] <Azelphur> xD
[14:49] <Ricey> hi guys, i'm running 12.10 and just noticed my mouse wheel has reversed direction! anyone else seen this?
[14:51] <popey> i haven't
[14:55] <Ricey> odd behaviour, it was after this afternoons' updates
[14:55] <Ricey> but they were just unity stuff
[14:58] <Ricey> so...how to swap it back.....
[15:02] <Ricey> ah, that's what it is
[15:03] <Ricey> 'natural scrolling' on/off switch in ubuntu tweak!
[15:03] <Ricey> phew, thought i'd broken it :P
[15:04] <AlanBell> bootlknvf: there is a tablecloth, I think Daviey still has it
[15:05] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, OK cool .. cant see Daviey on the system ?
[15:11] <bootlknvf> AlanBell, Any word onhow to get in touch with Daviey ??
[15:11] <bootlknvf> ** on how
[15:12] <bootlknvf> ... Oh I see him now .. Ok
[15:13] <bootlknvf> Daviey, Hi there Mr AlanBell says you might have an Ubuntu tablecloth for our LUG that is meeting next month ..
[15:13] <bootlknvf> I was wondering if we could get a photo of the users outside in the sun so that we can update the homepage ??
[15:14] <bootlknvf> I'm happy to return the tablecloth and give you any charges for the service ...
[15:36] <bootlknvf> some much for the Daviey, then.
[15:36] <AlanBell> bootlknvf: people idle here, it is the weekend
[15:37] <bootlknvf> AlanBell,  Oh right OK .. an email [PM] would be of help
[15:41] <penguin42> anyone seeing 'PCDATA invalid Char value 27' on android mobile G+ page?
[15:43] <Ricey> mine's ok
[15:43] <Ricey> on HTC Sensation
[15:44] <hamitron> F1 2012 has arrived :D
[15:49] <penguin42> Ricey: Hmm
[15:49] <Ricey> penguin42: which browser you using?
[15:50] <penguin42> Ricey: standard android browser (on cyanogen 7)
[15:50] <Ricey> penguin42: mines good on android browser and chrome
[15:50]  * AlanBell wonders when window borders will return to quantal
[15:50] <penguin42> Ricey: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kp0_w9ua44c/UF3ddXSGHVI/AAAAAAAACoM/h0HZ5Ml9mSE/w497-h373/SAM_0808_v1.JPG
[15:51] <Ricey> penguin42: cyanogenmod 9
[15:53] <Ricey> penguin42: just try changing everything after <url>/app/plus/x/...     to <url>/app/plus/mp
[15:54] <Ricey> penguin42: that's where my url points
[15:55] <penguin42> Ricey: Is that the difference between the basic mobile interface and the better one?
[15:57] <Ricey> penguin42: not sure
[15:57] <Ricey> :/
[16:06] <penguin42> oh doing that's made it really unhappy!
[16:07] <mattt> wuzzzzzzup
[16:07] <Ricey> penguin42: oh dear
[16:11] <penguin42> Ricey: Well, that's actually a bit of a problem - I can't go to any google page on it now, it displays a large white box over the rest of the google page for no apparent reason - I suspect because it thinks it's in a larger format display?
[16:12] <Ricey> penguin42: try clearing the browser cache (system menu > apps) and maybe try a different browser too (dolphin, opera)
[16:12] <Ricey> penguin42: it might be a screen size issue too???
[16:12] <Ricey> penguin42: not sure
[16:14] <penguin42> ah, the clear cache wroked
[16:14] <Ricey> yay
[16:14] <penguin42> for the problem caused by the /mp - still get the char 27
[16:15] <Ricey> try a different browser, cm7 is a little old now ;)
[16:16] <penguin42> Ricey: Interest, so I tried switching to the non basic-mobile view, and it's fine, and having switched to the non-basic view there doesn't seem to be a way of switching back
[16:17] <Ricey> penguin42: ah, didn't try the basic mode, let's see if i can find it...
[16:17] <penguin42> and actually the non-basic mode is ok; I just prefer the web interface version to the app
[16:18] <mattt> lots of tweets about this amazon shopping stuff in 12.10
[16:18] <Ricey> penguin42: no, i can't find an option for basic mode on my browsers, i guess it's recognising my setup and leaving it out
[16:19] <Ricey> penguin42: if i set it to /x manually it re-directs to /mp
[16:19] <penguin42> Ricey: I suspect they've been trying to kill it off - and broke it
[16:19] <Ricey> penguin42: prolly !!
[16:19] <Ricey> penguin42, have you tried the full app?
[16:20] <penguin42> Ricey: The G+ app - yes, I hate it - it was fine until a few months ago, but now it'll only show 2 posts at a time on my phone, however small the posts
[16:20] <Ricey> penguin42: it's not to everyones taste or phone, that's true
[16:20] <penguin42> Ricey: And doesn't show any comments by default
[16:20] <penguin42> Ricey: I liked the old one
[16:22] <Ricey> penguin42: yeah, i don't use g+ much on android
[16:25] <pinky-> on Reuters they just posted a new news story about Apple seeking Samsung sales banned in the U.S. and another $707 million more in damages
[16:26]  * pinky- thinks about Karma
[16:32] <Ricey> problem #6,873 (random number!) how on earth do i get my ps3 eye webcam audio working - there's a bug but it's not fixed :(
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Ricey: on the ps3? Or on Ubuntu?
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Ricey: what's the bug #?
[16:33] <Ricey> MartijnVdS: on ubuntu, and it's just a random saying!
[16:33] <Ricey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/886449
[16:34] <Ricey> it seems to be an alsa/kernel issue
[16:34] <Ricey> according to the bug
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> not much to do then, except wait..
[16:34] <Ricey> indeed! and buy a cheap second mic!
[16:35] <Ricey> $ amixer -c1
[16:35] <Ricey> amixer: Mixer hw:1 load error: Invalid argument
[16:35] <Ricey> oh well, worth a try
[16:36] <pinky-> for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first
[16:36] <pinky-> that's Karma
[16:36] <Ricey> indeed
[16:37] <Ricey> so me plugging in my ps3 eye in will cause the alsa devs to fix it ;)
[16:37] <pinky-> that's just called getting lucky!
[16:49] <Ricey> lol
[16:51] <Ricey> i could always try connecting my spare bluetooth phone earpiece and mic???
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> sure
[16:51] <Ricey> oh and a usb bluetooth dongle ;)
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> that should work fine
[16:52] <Ricey> where's that charger gone......
[16:53] <Ricey> wow, can't believe i found it that quick!
[17:37] <bigcalm[mob]_> Any extras for the happy hour tonight?
[17:38] <Pendulum> bigcalm[mob]_: sorry, it's a bit far for me ;)
[17:42] <bigcalm[mob]_> Aww, some day maybe :)
[17:45] <bigcalm[mob]> Dave highlight?
[17:45] <bigcalm[mob]> It doesn't feel right calling you Dave on irc.
[17:46] <bigcalm[mob]> Where are the other drinkers? We need more than 3
[17:48] <AlanBell> I am on the way
[17:49] <AlanBell> the night is young
[17:56] <mattt> partaaay
[17:57] <pinky-> lol they glued an iphone5 to the ground:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRlOM3y4yG4
[18:01] <bigcalm[mob]_> Free WiFi in the slug and lettuce is handy, but rather disconnecty
[18:03] <bigcalm[mob]_> I shall attempt to be sociable
[18:06] <mgdm> If I'm booting from USB on a somewhat elderly (Athlon 2700) machine, how long should I expect the purple screen with the 3 icons at the bottom to be there?
[18:06] <tombrough> ouch how much memory you got?
[18:08] <mgdm> I can't remember, actually
[18:09] <mgdm> I just need the machine up and on the network to get files off
[18:10] <tombrough> If its to rescue stuff off an ageing machine that wont boot I would use a dedicated "rescue" distro, ubuntu live may be a bit to heavy for it to cope with.
[18:11] <mgdm> and As I start to burn the CD, it starts to boot!
[18:11] <mgdm> (it has 2 working USB ports, I need 3 for the flash drive, keyboard and mouse...)
[18:11] <BigRedS> if you're rescuing stuff on an ageing machine it's normally best to take the disk out and plug it into something younger anyway
[18:11] <mgdm> Yes, I'd love to, but I can't
[18:12] <BigRedS> yeah, I suppose that was pretty obvious by the fact that you hadn't :)
[18:12] <mgdm> it should be mandatory for USB keyboards to have more USB ports on them
[18:13] <ali1234> yes, it's very handy
[18:17] <BigRedS> my USB keyboard has a PS/2 socket on it, which I find endearingly quaint
[18:22] <mgdm> heh
[18:22] <pinky-> my Asus mobo has 12 x usb 2.0 ports and 2 x 3.0 usb ports, guess I'm lucky and don't need to ever worry about such things:/
[18:28]  * mgdm finds a blank CD and burns Ubuntu to that, and uses the Flash drive on another computer :/
[18:28] <mgdm> I'm back home and doing the yearly IT service :)
[18:29] <jacobw> that's always fun
[18:32] <SuperEngineer> dr who time boys & girls :)
[18:32] <mgdm> new Win7 computer in and running, old XP computer being backed up before being retired, dead laptop getting a new drive + Ubuntu, dead netbook to get a new power switch...
[18:32] <pinky-> quite a list, lots of hours..
[18:33] <mgdm> it's all family stuff. Not chargeable :-)
[18:33] <jacobw> SuperEngineer: i can't watch it, insensitive clod
[18:33] <mgdm> I don't mind
[18:34] <SuperEngineer> hee hee
[18:35] <mgdm> The 12.04 installer is pretty slick, I have to say
[18:38] <pinky-> lol they mentioned Twitter on DrWho:)
[18:38] <mgdm> I wonder has he adapted Rose's phone to tweet as well as make calls across the universe
[18:39] <mgdm> 'omg getting chased by Daleks AGAIN lol'
[18:40] <mgdm> wait, that'd be Facebook
[18:41] <Monotoko> wow
[18:41] <Monotoko> I love Synergy
[18:41] <mgdm> it's awesome
[18:41] <Monotoko> I can control both my Windows laptop and my Linux desktop :D
[18:41] <mgdm> when I used to have a Macbook Pro with 2 monitors and a Windows desktop at work, I could control both
[18:42] <mgdm> which confused the non-techies :)
[18:42] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, that's one bit of software that's I never stopped regarding as pure magic
[18:42] <Monotoko> hahahah, it is pure magic o: took me a while to get it going though
[18:42] <Monotoko> bloody university internet
[18:42] <mgdm> Synergy is magic, yes, but Shazam is witchcraft
[18:43] <mgdm> I know exactly how it works, and I could probably implement it myself, but the mere fact that it works quite that well is incredible
[18:43] <ali1234> which one?
[18:43] <mgdm> ali1234: which which?
[18:43] <ali1234> synergy or shazam?
[18:43] <mgdm> Shazam
[18:43] <BigRedS> yeah, I've a vague understanding of how Synergy works, but the number of edge-cases there must be in getting it working on X, OSX *and* Windows amazes me. It must be even worse than doing something that's supposed to be possible cross-platform
[18:44] <Monotoko> hmmm, my mouse won't select my mIRC stuff for some reason :P
[18:44] <Monotoko> apart from that
[18:44] <Monotoko> no problems :D
[18:44] <mgdm> it's telling you shouldn't use mIRC
[18:44] <mgdm> come to irssi, it is calling ;-)
[18:45] <Monotoko> hahahah clearly :) I also can't get the sidebar on Ubuntu because it just goes straight back to Windows
[18:45] <Monotoko> super key works though :D
[18:45] <ali1234> i would plug my synergy fork which supports bluetooth and automatic discovery of services (ie roaming between multiple setups) but the svn server sees to have gone down
[18:45] <mgdm> ali1234: tres shiny
[18:46] <ali1234> linux only though, becuase i have no idea how to write bluetooth code for windows or mac
[18:46] <Monotoko> Windows bluetooth code is horrible :P
[18:46] <mgdm> I suspect the Windows case at least requires sacrifice of small furry cute animals
[18:46] <Monotoko> indeed
[18:46] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you seen 'mango-lassi' ?
[18:46] <mgdm> given that the last time I looked (a while ago) there were about 3 different BT stacks for Windows
[18:47] <ali1234> "This domain name expired on 08/21/2012 and is pending renewal or deletion."
[18:47] <ali1234> penguin42: no what is it?
[18:47] <penguin42> ali1234: It's an alternative to synergy, works with mDNS stuff - never managed to get it to work (haven't tried it for a while though)
[18:48] <ali1234> synergy works with mDNS...
[18:48] <penguin42> ali1234: But it doesn't advertise a service does it?
[18:49] <ali1234> no
[18:49] <ali1234> unless you use bluetooth :)
[18:49] <penguin42> I think m.l does
[18:49] <penguin42> (not sure about bt)
[18:49] <Monotoko> hmmm, does anyone know how I can get sound across?
[18:49] <Monotoko> from my desktop to my laptop so I can route it through the stereo
[18:49] <ali1234> Monotoko: you have to use pulseaudio network abstraction
[18:49] <Monotoko> ali1234, that sounds complex... does it work cross platform?
[18:49] <ali1234> i have no idea how it works but it is supposed to be possible
[18:50] <ali1234> yes pulseaudio allegedly works on windows
[18:50] <Monotoko> hmm, this could be a fun night :P
[18:51] <mgdm> I do not use Unity
[18:51] <mgdm> how do I get it to show me all the installed applications?
[18:52] <mgdm> the search isn't working
[18:52] <ali1234> top right there's a menu
[18:52] <BigRedS> dpkg -l
[18:52] <ali1234> it's like a drop down thing with a triangle
[18:52] <ali1234> top right of the dash that is
[18:52] <mgdm> BigRedS: no, not that :)
[18:53] <ali1234> you click onthe bookshelf looking thing at the bottom
[18:53] <ali1234> then filter results
[18:53] <ali1234> then select all
[18:53] <ali1234> then "see 100 more results" next to "installed"
[18:53] <mgdm> where's 'select all'?
[18:53] <ali1234> next to "type"
[18:53] <penguin42> I'm kind of surprised those 'bookshelf looking thing' and other icons aren't any more descriptive, didn't seem to do a tooltip
[18:53] <ali1234> they've probably redesigned it all since last i used it
[18:54] <mgdm> I don't get a 'type' or whatever
[18:54] <mgdm> I just get 'filter results', which does hee haw
[18:54] <mgdm> and it can't find 'terminal', though last boot it did
[18:54] <ali1234> give up on unity
[18:54] <ali1234> oh, you can alt-f1 or ctrl-f1 or something, and get a "run" dialog
[18:54] <jacobw> what do you use now ali1234 ?
[18:54] <ali1234> then just put in gnome-terminal
[18:55] <ali1234> jacobw: gnome-panel
[18:55] <mgdm> it's only running in a live env for the duration of getting all this stuff off
[18:55] <ali1234> i learned a huge amount about unity by doing the semi-automated tests
[18:55] <mgdm> hitting enter doesn't work \o/
[18:55] <BigRedS> "run" is at alt-f2
[18:56] <mgdm> I have the Run thing, and have typed gnome-terminal
[18:56] <ali1234> it has loads of pointless features that yu would never know even existed without a full walkthrough tutorial
[18:56] <BigRedS> it's a lot like the start button thing
[18:56] <BigRedS> is that the dash?
[18:56] <mgdm> yes
[18:56] <BigRedS> but would software-centre get you a list of installed apps?
[18:56] <mgdm> OK, my objective is that I want a terminal
[18:56] <mgdm> quick-style
[18:56] <ali1234> right click on desktop, "create shortcut", -> "gnome-terminal"
[18:56] <BigRedS> ctrl-alt-t
[18:56] <mgdm> but it won't let me have one
[18:57] <ali1234> oh wait, they removed that too
[18:57] <ali1234> ctrl-alt-f1, there is your terminal :)
[18:57] <BigRedS> install guake?
[18:57] <penguin42> I think if you can create a .desktop file in your Desktop it still does it
[18:57] <jacobw> does guake even work with unity
[18:57] <ali1234> oh, oh: ctrl-alt-f1, login, DISPLAY=:0 gnome-terminal, ctrl-alt-f7
[18:57] <mgdm> BigRedS: ctrl-alt-t worked. You get this week's "obscure shortcut" award
[18:58]  * mgdm sods off for some dinner, and will continue thrashing this later
[18:58] <ali1234> ctrl-alt-t works in gnome-panel too, so that's cool
[18:58] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, it's a ubuntuism, though
[18:58] <jacobw> it doesn't work in kubuntu even
[18:59] <ali1234> KDE can probanly do it using plasma workspaces
[18:59] <BigRedS> nor does anything, though, so that's okay :)
[18:59] <ali1234> plasma can do anything, except for make a usable desktop
[18:59] <jacobw> the keyboard shortcut, not guake
[18:59] <penguin42> you can hotkey pretty much anything in kde; although since I've got a terminal icon on my panel I don't really need to
[19:00] <ali1234> oh, yeah, i'm pretty sure the keyboard shortcut is actually a gnome thing
[19:00] <jacobw> i like plasma
[19:02] <BigRedS> I'm pretty sure it predates unity
[19:02] <ali1234> they are roughly the same age
[19:02] <ali1234> gnome shell too
[19:02] <ali1234> they all started development around the same time
[19:03] <BigRedS> I just meant the ctrl-alt-f1 shortcut
[19:03] <BigRedS> er, ctrl-alt-t
[19:03] <ali1234> oh.
[19:03] <ali1234> that again?
[19:05] <BigRedS> hm?
[19:05] <BigRedS> ah, never mind
[19:06] <jacobw> i think plasma development started around 2006, perhaps 2007 as part of kde4
[19:07] <ali1234> and unity started out as UNE in 2008
[19:07] <jacobw> i'd forgotten about UNE
[19:08] <ali1234> yeah
[19:08] <jacobw> i didn't know the code from UNE was used for unity
[19:08] <ali1234> i think everyone can agree that unity is an improvement over UNE at least
[19:09] <ali1234> the unity code has been rewritten many time while it's been called unity
[19:09] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[19:09] <ali1234> i doubt there's any UNE code still in it; i also doubt there is much unity 1.0 code still in it
[19:09] <ali1234> they've also totally from scratch rewritten compiz in a different language
[19:10] <ali1234> and then there's unity2d as well
[19:10] <jacobw> different language?
[19:10] <ali1234> yeah, compiz 0.8 is C, compiz 0.9 is C++
[19:16] <Azelphur> how long after a show is aired does it come on at iplayer?
[19:18] <penguin42> thought it's pretty instant these days - and if it's still on you can rewind to the start on the life
[19:19] <Azelphur> penguin42: it doesn't seem to want to let me watch the new doctor who :(
[19:20] <Azelphur> it redirects me to the lottery when I click it :S
[19:20] <Azelphur> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=doctor%20who
[19:21] <Azelphur> ah there we go, it caught up now
[19:21] <Azelphur> \o/
[19:22] <Azelphur> oh nope, it just got confused, uncaught up again
[19:27] <penguin42> Azelphur: Your problem here is that you're in the wrong time, if only you had a way to move to the right one
[19:28] <Azelphur> o.O
[19:30] <lanboy1> anyone know how to get flash 11.2 working so it doesnt smurf youtube?
[19:31] <ali1234> yes
[19:31] <ali1234> 1. log out of unity and log in to unity2d or gnome classic
[19:31] <ali1234> 2. open youtube
[19:31] <ali1234> 3. right click flash player and select settings
[19:31] <ali1234> 4. disable hardware acceleration
[19:32] <lanboy1> tried that but doesnt work :(
[19:32] <ali1234> then you didn't do it properly
[19:33] <lanboy1> its something to do with ATI drivers isnt it
[19:33] <lanboy1> so i heard
[19:33] <ali1234> no
[19:33] <ali1234> it is a bug in flash player
[19:36] <lanboy1> i'm in gnome classic all the time
[19:37] <lanboy1> gonna try it again now
[19:41] <ali1234> if you are using gnome-classic and compiz you need to disable compiz
[19:41] <ali1234> otherwise you can't click on the box to disable hardware acceleration
[19:41] <ali1234> see bug 865672
[19:42] <lanboy1> ohhhhh
[19:42] <lanboy1> yeah i'm running compiz
[19:42] <ali1234> by the way, this bug is a regression in compiz 0.9 and doesn't happen with compiz 0.8
[19:43] <ali1234> also another workaround is to use google chrome
[19:43] <ali1234> googlehas the flash source; they've fixed this bug
[19:43] <ali1234> but their version of flash plugin only works with chrome, and maybe chromium if you hack it
[19:43] <penguin42> that's an old old bug
[19:43] <ali1234> yes, it sure is
[19:44] <ali1234> almost a year
[19:44] <ali1234> also it keeps going away and coming back
[19:44] <ali1234> much like all compiz bugs
[19:44] <lanboy1> lol i'm running 11.04
[19:44] <lanboy1> i will update when i get a job
[19:44] <lanboy1> gonna get an ssd
[19:45] <ali1234> it's almost as if the developers have no way of knowing which patch fixed which bug, because their version control system is completely useless
[19:45] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't think it's that, I think it's not so much that a particular patch makes it come/go, it's just something that happens in some configs and not in others and you tweak something apparently unreleated and it reappears
[19:46] <lanboy1> i'm gonna sound dumb here, but how do i stop compiz
[19:46] <ali1234> penguin42: i never change compiz settings
[19:46] <ali1234> lanboy1: open a shell and type in "metacity --replace"
[19:47] <ali1234> you can also log out and log in to unity2d
[19:47] <ali1234> or gnome-fallback
[19:47] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't mean settings, I mean interactions with lots of different bits of the desktop
[19:47] <ali1234> fallback should have no compositing
[19:49] <ali1234> penguin42: it's actually caused by compiz stacking bugs. even the lead develop of compiz admits this is a mess and that he's caused many regressions while trying to fix things
[19:50] <ali1234> see eg bug 736877
[19:50] <lanboy1> doesnt save when i uncheck hardware acceleration
[19:50] <ali1234> well, it should do
[19:53] <lanboy1> only works when i start firefox with sudo command
[19:54] <ali1234> sounds like you've got stale root-owned configuration files
[19:54] <lanboy1> yeah i had some problems with stuff being locked to root before
[19:54] <ali1234> cd ~; find -user root
[19:55] <lanboy1> ok its listed some files
[19:56] <lanboy1> some of which are flash :/
[19:56] <lanboy1> so if i change the permissions it should be ok right?
[19:56] <ali1234> yeah
[19:58] <ali1234> to avoid this happening, don't use sudo -s, and don't run gui programs with sudo, use gksudo. and only do it when absolutely necessary. i have never needed to run firefox as root.
[20:00] <mgdm> *shudder*
[20:01] <BigRedS> firefox as root? What?
[20:02] <BigRedS> though I have come across this idea that sudo is somehow a harmless alternative to making yourself root
[20:06] <jacobw> sudo is making yourself root :|
[20:07] <_2E0BXQ> it stands for pseudo-root
[20:08] <_2E0BXQ> also su i.e. super-user, do
[20:08] <jacobw> i didn't know that, i thought it was mean to be su-do-this-thing
[20:08]  * BigRedS smiles at a proud history of ambiguous etymology in *nix
[20:09] <lanboy1> genius
[20:09] <lanboy1> it works
[20:09] <BigRedS> jacobw: to be fair it's not quite making yourself root - you *can* configure sudo such that you probably can't break anything too badly by restricting you to doing something not all that dangerous like ifup
[20:09] <BigRedS> but almost everybody doesn't
[20:10] <penguin42> and of course since su isn't just for root - you can *substitute user* to any user
[20:10] <jacobw> you can whitelist commands
[20:10]  * _2E0BXQ pets the fact he just logs in as root, and doesn't bother with having a normal user account >.>
[20:12] <jacobw> meh
[20:12] <brobostigon> QI XL :) BBC2
[20:13] <BigRedS> penguin42: no! 'switch user'! :)
[20:14] <jacobw> nobody uses that
[20:49] <Daviey> bootlknvf: Hey, I don't think I still have the table cloth.
[21:05] <balor> czajkowski, and *that* was the worst Dr Who
[21:09] <bootlknvf> Daviey, Yeah, thought as much ... thank-you for getting back in touch with me . Good luck.
[21:09] <popey> Daviey, who does?
[21:22] <Monotoko> how do I choose another session at login with just a keyboard?
[21:22] <Monotoko> (Ubuntu 12.04)
[21:23] <mrdigital> ctrl + alt +(one of the F - keys)
[21:24] <Monotoko> I mean at the login screen... like, desktops
[21:24] <Monotoko> I have Unity and XFCE
[21:24] <popey> tab then space
[21:25] <Monotoko> thank you! :)
[21:25] <popey> np
[21:36] <popey> ali1234, why is raspbmc so painful to setup, they don't have an image you can just blat onto an SD card?
[21:40] <Seeker`> Azelphur: Was it you I was talking to about benchmarks for phones?
[21:40] <Azelphur> Seeker`: yes
[21:41] <Seeker`> Azelphur: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?benchmark=glpro25&advanced-filter=false&orderby=448&base=device&screen-group=true&screen-group-value=1&os=0&os=1&os=2&os=3&os=4&version=latest&certified_only=1&brand=all&gpu=all&screen=4&screen=3&screen=2&screen=1&screen=0
[21:42] <Azelphur> wow the xiamo is top?
[21:42] <Azelphur> impressive, isn't that a budget phone from korea?
[21:45] <Seeker`> Azelphur: http://goo.gl/S71jJ
[21:45] <ali1234> popey: i know right.
[21:45] <Seeker`> Its a china-only phone. Don't think it is particularly budget
[21:45] <Azelphur> Seeker`: fun, I remember reading about it, the MIUI phone
[21:45] <ali1234> popey: in fact you can download the kernel image and rootfs tarball and just make the sd card yourself quite easily
[21:46] <jacobw> MIUI is just a ROM
[21:46] <popey> this bruhaha passed me by
[21:46] <Azelphur> jacobw: they have a phone to go with it now
[21:46] <popey> just finding deleted posts and reading via aggregators http://raspberrycenter.de/aggregator/categories/2
[21:46] <jacobw> Oh, cool :)
[21:47] <Seeker`> Azelphur: so, yeah, iphone is quite a bit better than the galaxy S 3 :)
[21:47] <ali1234> popey: i've picked through the raspbmc source code and i my opinion they are violating the GPL. their "source code" is just a script which runs debootstrap and makes a tarball from the raspbian mirrors
[21:47] <Azelphur> Seeker`: at graphics, not at cpu, screen, nfc, bluetooth, universal connectivity, openness, app availability, camera, ...
[21:47] <popey> right
[21:47] <Azelphur> :p
[21:48] <ali1234> xbian source code is offline so i can't say anything about that however i suspect they have built their rootfs tarball by hand, so there is no such script for them to release
[21:48] <ali1234> but either way, both of them are violating the GPL
[21:50] <Seeker`> Azelphur: meh, bigger screen isn't always better, nfc is still as useful as it was when I first tried it 7 years ago, how is the blutooth better, 'universal connectivity'?
[21:50]  * popey notes "build quality" and "design" aren't on Azelphurs list
[21:50] <Azelphur> popey: *shrug*, those things are heavily subject to opinion so I tend to avoid them
[21:50] <ali1234> but the really funny part is that no code created by raspbmc is even released under the GPL
[21:51] <Azelphur> Seeker`: I've actually been playing with NFC on my phone since yesterday, great fun
[21:51] <popey> not suprised
[21:51] <ali1234> they use their own weird non-commercial license (which is therefore not GPL compatible)
[21:51] <Azelphur> bluetooth, android has a bunch of profiles that iphone doesn't according to gsmarena
[21:51] <popey> Azelphur, all that list is subject to opinion
[21:51] <Azelphur> universal connectivity, we have proper microUSB ports, usb otg, etc, you don't.
[21:51] <popey> Azelphur, I have no need for nfc or bluetooth, and the app availability is awesome on ios
[21:51] <Seeker`> Azelphur: just about everything on that list is subjective, apart from the lack of nfc
[21:51] <popey> i dont need micro usb on my phone
[21:52] <Azelphur> popey: everything about anything is only relative to use case
[21:52] <popey> mini and micro usb are crap connectors anyway
[21:52] <Azelphur> that doesn't change the fact that overall, the galaxy s3 has a much larger feature set, which overall makes it better.
[21:52] <Azelphur> if you don't use those features, that's fine :)
[21:52] <ali1234> that's right. nokia small connector is the one true power source
[21:52] <popey> :)
[21:52] <popey> i was looking for one of them the other day :(
[21:52]  * Azelphur would rather pay less for more features, than more for less
[21:52] <Azelphur> :p
[21:52] <popey> ended up binning the phone, should have stripped it
[21:53] <Seeker`> Azelphur: the only extra feature you listed was nfc...
[21:53] <ali1234> lol, binning a phone for lack of a charger that costs £3?
[21:53] <Azelphur> Seeker`: and extra bluetooth profiles, and thousands more apps, I can go on :)
[21:53] <popey> I was in "clear out" mode
[21:53] <ali1234> anyway, mobile phone wars lol
[21:53] <popey> indeed
[21:53] <Azelphur> hehe :p
[21:53] <popey> pointless
[21:53] <ali1234> nobody is ever going to change their opinion so it's pointless to argue
[21:54] <Azelphur> I don't bother to argue now, I just chant facts
[21:54] <Azelphur> xD
[21:54] <Seeker`> Azelphur: how many of those apps do anything different to the other several thousand?
[21:54] <popey> meh
[21:54] <popey> bored of this
[21:55] <Azelphur> Seeker`: no statistics available on that :)
[21:56] <Seeker`> Azelphur: what have you been using nfc on your phone for?
[21:56] <pinky-> App Store has growing population of never-downloaded "zombie apps" 2/3rds have never ever been downloaded
[21:56] <Azelphur> beaming between my tablet and phone, and I'm also playing around with NFC payments
[21:57] <Azelphur> I'm trying to hack NFC payments to work before it's officially released in this country lol
[21:57]  * Azelphur likes to have nice things early
[21:57] <pinky-> iOS App Store*
[21:57]  * Seeker` got hold of a nokia NFC phone in 2005 through uni, had to do a project with it. Hasn't seen it really in use anywhere else.
[21:57] <Azelphur> Seeker`: most places accept wireless cards now
[21:58] <Azelphur> I know my local mcdonalds does, and I think my local tescos does too
[21:58] <Azelphur> and the phone talks the same protocol, so should work if I can get past the region locking :)
[21:59] <Azelphur> was also interesting to see what data was actually stored on my card
[22:01] <pinky-> The reality is there are only a couple of thousand apps that really make some kind of downloads. This is based on Apple’s closed system — it’s tough to discover those kinds of apps. You don’t have proper search, so the only way to discover new apps is through the top listing.
[22:02] <pinky-> The top 25 tend to be the same companies who spend millions of dollars to get to the top of those lists.
[22:02] <ali1234> the top "apps" are all cheezy games
[22:02] <Azelphur> pinky-: on apple you mean?
[22:03] <pinky-> yes
[22:03] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:14] <pinky-> Did you know that the App Store has 1,899 flashlight apps?
[22:15] <Seeker`> pinky-: there are at least 1000 results on google play for android devices
[22:15] <Azelphur> lol
[22:16] <Seeker`> furthermore there are at least 1000 free flashlight aps
[22:16] <Seeker`> and at least 1000 paid flashlight apps
[22:17] <Darael> The latter is frankly the more worrying.
[22:19] <pinky-> this is dated 21st Sept. http://gigaom.com/mobile/ioss-lead-over-android-in-app-monetization-is-shrinking/
[22:27] <pinky-> it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next five years.
[22:33] <ali1234> google will become the biggest player in smartphones
[22:33] <ali1234> microsoft will switch to entirely cloud based services company
[22:33] <ali1234> apple will continue doing exactly what they've always done
[22:34] <pinky-> I'd laugh like crazy if Samsung patented some new technology which meant Apple couldn't copy and ended up going out of "fashion"
[22:34] <ali1234> linux will not become popular on the desktop
[22:35] <ali1234> everything else will probably have faded away to be replaced by different companies with different products
[22:35] <ali1234> ok 5 years is probably too short time frame
[22:35] <ali1234> try 10 years for all that stuff
[22:36] <Seeker`> pinky-: there will always be something that apple have a patent on too
[22:36] <Seeker`> plus the fact that apple are one of the biggest customers of the other half of samsung
[22:36] <pinky-> Seeker`, yeah it reminds me of the U.S. company Monster Cables
[22:36] <Seeker`> ?
[22:36] <pinky-> make thier money through sueing
[22:37] <Seeker`> heh, Apple don't make their money through suing
[22:37] <pinky-> ok I was too abstract
[22:40] <pinky-> and a little sleepy
[22:41] <pinky-> I need to hit the hay, good night all