[02:08] <FloatingGoat> okay
[02:08] <FloatingGoat> len-dt: its like very static?
[03:49] <FloatingGoat> len-dt: whats the best way to record guitar?
[03:49] <len-dt> Whatever gets the sound you want
[03:50] <len-dt> Last bit I did, I used a vocal mic (at 2020) to record an acoustic, and ran the electric direct.
[03:51] <len-dt> I added effects to the guitars after I had most of my tracks for mixdown.
[03:52] <len-dt> That can be a bit limiting because one plays different depending on how the sound is
[03:53] <len-dt> But it does give a nice clean track that any effect will work on.
[03:54] <len-dt> FloatingGoat, When I say direct in... that means through a preamp... not direct to sound card.
[03:55] <len-dt> The pre amp I used is the one in a Mackie 1604 mixer.
[03:56] <len-dt> Still, lots of records made with an SM57 in front of the guitar amp too.
[03:57] <len-dt> Depends what kind of sound you want.
[03:58] <len-dt> Use your ears... make 5 or 10 tracks doing it every way you can think and keep what sounds best for the song you are doing.
[03:59] <len-dt> If I use more than one guitar track I try to do each one different.
[04:00] <len-dt> Use different guitars, mics, amps, effects etc.
[04:00] <FloatingGoat> okay
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> i pretty much did it the way you said
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> i recorded my acoustic through
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> my mic and the electric through the not mic
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> I mean like
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> if its a two minute song
[04:01] <FloatingGoat> should I play guitar for two minutes and thats the track?
[04:02] <FloatingGoat> the same thing for two minutes?
[04:02] <len-dt> Whatever sounds right for the style of music and gets what the song is trying to say across.
[04:02] <len-dt> Music is about communication.
[04:04] <len-dt> Take Neil Young... Old Man Vs Hey Hey, My My
[04:05] <len-dt> They are saying two completely different things and are two different styles.
[04:10] <FloatingGoat> yeah?
[04:14] <len-dt> Hey music is art, some paint with oils and others watercolours.... and some with film
[04:15] <len-dt> There is no such thing as a set of rules... just do this and it will work... unless you are doing vocal gymnastics for Idol
[04:17] <len-dt> What do you do on stage? start with that.
[04:18] <len-dt> Then listen... maybe you will get an idea to change something... so try it. If it sounds better keep it. Don't be afraid to try things.
[04:20] <len-dt> The nice thing about a computer tracker is that you can have lots of tracks, mute the ones you aren't using and they won't load the computer down
[04:24] <len-dt> Listen with your eyes closed, Does every sound support the vocal or the instrument solo? Or does something distract?
[04:24] <len-dt> There is nothing wrong with recording something and deciding not to use it later.
[05:31] <FloatingGoat> yeah i guess
[05:31] <FloatingGoat> it just takes time and effert
[07:25] <drupin> VLC is giving me flickering. very minute flashes...
[08:36] <drupin> how can i play video files in vlc
[10:15] <velho> http://www.linuxdsp.co.uk
[10:21] <jablo> Hi I am trying to make puredata work with Jack with no luck. Every time I select "jack" in puredata, puedata locks up completely.
[10:22] <ailo> jablo: Did you try starting jack first?
[10:23] <ailo> And if that still doesn't work, try this in a terminal (after starting jack): pd -jack
[10:24] <ailo> You can even do: pd -jack channels 2 -alsamidi
[10:24] <jablo> I start jack with qjackctl fist, yes. I'll try your command lines, need to do some "kill"s first though.
[10:24] <ailo> Ah, sorry. -channels
[10:27] <jablo> 1) Start jack; 2) pd -jack -channels 2 -alsamidi; 3) Pureadta window shows up with a big "Audio Error".
[10:28] <jablo> Still - setting dsp and making a small "osc~ 440" --> "dac~" gives sound.
[10:28] <jablo> So I'd say - thanks for your help.
[10:28] <jablo> Apparently I need to start puredata from the command line.
[10:31] <ailo> jablo: Did you make sure to choose number of inputs and outputs when choosing jack from the pd menu?
[10:32] <ailo> jablo: Also, don't forget that even if you have a low latency with jack, you'll need to set pd's latency low too, for the non-audio operation (such as midi)
[10:32] <jablo> Yes and no - puredata  locks up as it displays the jack audio configuration menu
[10:32] <ailo> jablo: Which OS and release is this?
[10:34] <jablo> Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS, uname 3.2.0-23-lowlatency
[10:34] <jablo> x86_64
[10:36] <ailo> jablo: You might like to try pd-extended instead. https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended
[10:36] <jablo> ICE1712 - Hoontech SoundTrack Audio DSP24
[10:36] <jablo> Ok I'll try and look at that.
[10:36] <ailo> Those are older, but should work
[10:36] <ailo> There's also the beta of pd-extended..
[10:37] <jablo> I'm still trying to get the pd patch you or (who was it?) sent me the other day, to detect sound and trigger a bass drum from hydrogen
[10:37] <ailo> jablo: Ah, yeah. That was me
[10:38] <ailo> Well, pd vanilla should do that well enough.
[10:38] <ailo> There's something weird about the jack interface only when starting it.
[10:39] <jablo> Since I got sound out of puredata through jack when starting it on the command ...
[10:39] <ailo> pd-extended includes loads of extra libs, as well as having a more pleasant look
[10:40] <ailo> jablo: You need to make sure alsamidi is enabled. If you don't see pd in qjackctl alsa midi tab, enable the alsamidi from the pd menu
[10:40] <ailo> When running the patch, you want to have dsp on, and needless to say, the audio and midi ports properly connected
[10:41] <ailo> After making sure it works, you'll want to reduce latency as well
[10:41] <jablo> When I load the patch - seems that puredata locks up again. The window with the flow is unresponsive, can't move things around.
[10:41] <jablo> Cant' open puredata audio preferences
[10:41] <jablo> so - something isn't working well
[10:42] <jablo> jackd latency is 2.9ms
[10:42] <jablo> 64 sample blocks
[10:42] <ailo> Try reducing jack latency
[10:42] <ailo> Just for testing
[10:42] <ailo> The patch has a auto dsp on
[10:42] <ailo> After starting pd, before opening the patch, try turning dsp opn
[10:43] <jablo> killling things and retrying... brb
[10:45] <jablo> just starting puredata (on the command line, with jack aleady started), puredata continuously spits out:
[10:45] <jablo> damn cutn'paste not working
[10:46] <jablo> watchdog: signaling pd...
[10:46] <jablo> Jack: JackClient::ClientNotify ref = 3 name = pure_data_0 notify = 3
[10:46] <jablo> Jack: JackClient::kXRunCallback
[10:46] <jablo> Jack: JackClient::ClientNotify ref = 3 name = pure_data_0 notify = 3
[10:46] <jablo> Jack: JackClient::kXRunCallback
[10:46] <ailo> What's jacks latency at now?
[10:46] <jablo> still 2.9ms
[10:47] <ailo> Try reducing it just for seeing if pd will start. Also, did you set latency before in pd settings menu?
[10:47] <ailo> If not, all is fine
[10:47] <jablo> I tuned on dsp, then load patch. Puredata locks up before the patch is loaded.
[10:48] <jablo> yes i checked that pd latency (block size) is 64 like jack
[10:48] <ailo> You can set blocksize also from the commandline. pd --help gives you an idea
[10:49] <ailo> I'd try with a much larger blocksize to see if it will start
[10:49] <ailo> On both jack and pd
[10:49] <jablo> ok.
[10:51] <ailo> I run pd with 64 frames myself, but I don't use vanilla pd
[10:51] <jablo> 512 - seems to be working a bit better
[10:52] <jablo> Afte the patch loads, shouldn't the window be alive - ie, I should be able to highlight, click and move the blocks aoround?
[10:52] <ailo> You need to be in edit mode for that
[10:52] <jablo> YES!
[10:52] <ailo> Ctrl + E
[10:52] <jablo> I am SO new to puredata. Hate it. I'm a programme, not a mouser :)
[10:53] <jablo> *programmer
[10:53] <jablo> Hmm. I don't see puredata in jacks midi pane.
[10:54] <ailo> There's no jack midi for pd
[10:54] <ailo> So, you'll find it in alsa midi
[10:54] <ailo> If you enabled alsamidi, that is
[10:54] <jablo> Ok, let me be precise here: I see puredata in jack "audio" pane, but not in jack "MIDI" pane nor in jack ALSA pane.
[10:55] <jablo> Woups, now it's there
[10:55] <jablo> Ahha. So - I should be ready to hook up Ardour --> puredata --> hydrogen.
[10:56] <jablo> And get a decent drum bass sound whenever my badly recorded bass drum sounds.
[10:56] <jablo> With 512 sample blocks, probably a bit time skewed - but that's for later.
[10:56] <ailo> The [bonk~] object works pretty well without any arguments, but it can be tuned. To see help for objects, just right-click and choose help
[10:57] <jablo> Thanks. Yes. I'll get some tea, play around with this and possibly be back.
[10:57] <jablo> You are very helpful.
[10:57] <ailo> np
[10:58] <jablo> Other question - are you guys using ubuntu studio? and using -generic, -lowlatency or -realtime kernels?
[10:58] <ailo> I use -lowlatency
[10:59] <jablo> k
[10:59] <ailo> Haven't used an -rt since Ubuntu Natty
[10:59] <jablo> -generic was completely unusable to me. even with i think 1024 block i got more noise than sound
[11:00] <ailo> I was on puredyne 9.10, based on Ubuntu 9.10, which had an -rt kernel in the main repo. That one was pretty ok. Since 11.04 I started using -lowlatency instead. Those kernels are actually a bit better on performance
[11:01] <ailo> I mean, the ones on 11.04 and perhaps 11.10
[11:01] <jablo> That's what I read too.
[11:01] <ailo> Here's a howto I made on building an older -lowlatency kernel on a newer release https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildOldLowlatency
[11:03] <ailo> I haven't yet prepared a production system for my pd patches, which are quite extensive and used with our band. I will probably want to try the older kernel
[11:03] <ailo> I only tried it quickly when I made the howto, and it seemed more responsive
[11:03] <jablo> I just grabbed a -lowlatency i had in synaptic package manager
[11:03] <ailo> Since 12.04, there's a lowlatency in the main repo
[11:04] <ailo> But, we were testing kernels already a year earlier
[11:04] <jablo> Ah.
[11:04] <ailo> 2.6.37 was very nice, but 2.6.38 was the first to support the rtirq script
[11:05] <ailo> Another piece of -rt that has gotten into the main kernel source
[11:06] <jablo> HEY, puredata is doing something to my sound.
[11:07] <jablo> theree's a "velocity" thingie that changes values in step with the music!
[11:08] <ailo> Not sure what you mean
[11:09] <jablo> I connected ardour (bass durm track) to the puredata patch. And started playback in ardour.
[11:09] <ailo> The noteout is given a message: note 30, velocity $1. Velocity is based on the volume that [bonk~] object
[11:09] <ailo> Missing words there, but you get the point
[11:09] <jablo> Yes that's what I figured. So, since the velocity object moves, puredaata hears the sound, pocesses it... DOES something.
[11:09] <jablo> hooking up to hydrogen now.
[11:09] <ailo> It doesn't do anything with the sound. It only outputs midi
[11:10] <ailo> There's no audio out on the patch
[11:10] <jablo> Nono fine, I want a midi signal into hydrogen.
[11:10] <jablo> Yes. There'a a small blinking "midi in" thing now in hydrogen... now... sound...
[11:11] <jablo> AND it's actually hooked up to the bass drum... wow.
[11:14] <jablo> Amazing.
[11:14] <jablo> Hydrogen is playing the bass drum now.
[11:14] <jablo> Sound awful though
[11:15] <jablo> But that's the hydrogen drum set AND filtering in bonk~. Wow wow wow.
[11:17] <ailo> jablo: Another thing you can do, if you want to be more advanced, is used pd as the sample player
[11:17] <ailo> But, that'll make you need to learn how to make pd patches
[11:18] <ailo> You get a bit more control, but I gather that is probably not needed in your case
[11:20] <jablo> A gate on the drum track has fixed this for now.
[11:21] <ailo> jablo: [bonk~] has more options in it's right outlet. You might want to look into that.
[11:21] <jablo> Amazing - now I have the sound of a hydogen bass drum synchronously playing with our recorded track
[11:22] <jablo> Thanks - I'll definitely look into this. This is a fabbatastic proof of concept!
[11:23] <jablo> Going to use this trick and make an updated set of music-minus-one mixes for the band. Wee hee :-D
[11:26] <jablo> bonk~ help says something about it working on 256 sound samples at a time. So probably one sholdn't set jack block size lower thatn 256
[11:45] <ailo> jablo: Nah, it works on lower setting too
[11:45] <ailo> As I said, I use it at 64
[11:46] <ailo> pd's internal block size is 64 by default, I believe. This may not be related to audio latency
[11:46] <ailo> Try reducing latency using the -audiobuf in ms instead
[11:47] <ailo> Or, data latency, not audio latency. Audio latency is controlled by jack
[12:18] <jablo> Ailo, I have one more queestion. What I have now with the bonk~ puredata ptach is very useful. It does, however, at times generate some extra spurious notes (bleeding from snare drum into bass drum mike). So I would like it to limit the number of notes it outputs.
[12:18] <jablo> and threshold setting comes to mind. But I don't understand the help - do I add a box called threshold, or ... ?
[12:24] <ailo> jablo: You either create the object with arguments, like [object arg1 arg2]
[12:24] <ailo> jablo: Or, you give it messages, using the message object.
[12:25] <ailo> jablo: Adding a message is done either from the edit menu, or Ctrl + 2
[12:25] <ailo> You can type whatever you want in a message, and that will be outputted from its outlet to anything its connected to, when you click it
[12:26] <jablo> so if i add messgae, and type "thresh 2.5 5" that should do something to bonk~ ?
[12:26] <jablo> oh yes, the help displays the same icon as message. oh.
[12:26] <ailo> Yea
[12:26] <jablo> (as I said: I'm a pogrammer, not a mouser/guie'er. sry.)
[12:28] <jablo> Thanks.
[12:29] <ailo> In the patch you have, there were two messages. One for the [noteout] object, and one to start pd. Anything after ";" in a message is sent somewhere, in this case "pd". The first word in the list identifies where it's sent
[12:29] <ailo> One to start dsp, sorry
[12:29] <jablo> Ah, i was wondering what the "loadbang" --> "; pd dsp 1" was for.
[12:30] <ailo> There are the [send] and [receive] objects. You can use those too
[12:31] <jablo> I must say - it's really working extremely well. Just using you patch and some fiddling with the low pass + aggressive gating on the sound track, hydrogen does exactly what it should, and feeding back into ardour all sound samples are nicely lined up. Timing is perfect.
[12:31] <ailo> I use the [bonk~] object with a couple of trigger pads. Beats the hell out of any midi drum I've tried
[12:32] <jablo> Ha. I have never really combined computer + music (my 2 great hobbies, and computers my work too).
[12:33] <jablo> I can see where you could do some really neat things... controlling... yeah, well, anything - just from your music.
[12:33] <ailo> [clip 0 127] just makes sure the output from [bonk~] is within the midi velocity range. Variables in messages, like [30 $1( will be filled with whatever you push it.
[12:34] <ailo> It doesn't take a lot of time to whip something up on pd, creating both midi, audio and gui interfaces
[12:35] <ailo> jablo: If you want to find out more, I suggest looking into the manual in the help browser
[12:36] <ailo> Well, the part that's called "Pure Data" in the manual, is what I mean
[12:37] <ailo> in the browser, not the manual. Jeez
[12:37] <ailo> Anyway, I'm going cyclink. First day with no wind for ages
[12:38] <jablo> have a nice trip.
[12:42] <ailo> jablo: One good pointer is to use the [print] object a lot. Connect anything to print, and you see the output in the console
[12:42] <ailo> Ok, going now
[18:27] <pandoras> hello :D
[18:27] <pandoras> have troubles with jack and D-Bus
[18:28] <pandoras> cannot connect to socket, can't find some useful infos on the web
[18:33] <ailo> pandoras: Standard Ubuntu Studio install?
[18:33] <ailo> If you started jack, and it failed before, it could be running. The default setting for qjackctl is to start jackdbus
[18:33] <ailo> To kill jackdbus, do: killall -9 jackdbus
[18:33] <pandoras> alio, yes
[18:34] <pandoras> mom
[18:34] <ailo> Sometimes stopping jack does not stop jack. When that happens, you have to kill jack in order to start it again
[18:35] <ailo> This is a bug with qjackctl and jackdbus on Ubuntu 12.04
[18:35] <pandoras> ok, ps -e | grep jack list anyway some running processes
[18:36] <pandoras> so, nothing is running, try again
[18:37] <pandoras> doesn't work
[18:37] <ailo> If that didn't help, try also restarting pulseaudio. I usually just kill it, and it respawns
[18:37] <ailo> pandoras: Make sure qjackctl is set to use a device you know works
[18:38] <ailo> So, I do: killall -9 jackdbus, killall pulseaudio. And then try jack again.
[18:38] <ailo> pandoras: What kind of device are you using with jack?
[18:39] <pandoras> ok, now its running
[18:40] <pandoras> the standart-device was (default) and not hw:2
[18:40] <ailo> pandoras: Every time you boot, the devices might shift order
[18:40] <pandoras> im using a PCI-Terrasoniq TS-22 Studio-card
[18:40] <pandoras> ailo, should only happen, when a new device plugged in
[18:40] <ailo> pandoras: No
[18:41] <ailo> The devices are not listed in order
[18:41] <ailo> The order can change at each boot
[18:41] <ailo> pandoras: If you want to make sure qjackctl is always set to use the card you like, use the name, instead of the number.
[18:42] <ailo> If I do: cat /proc/asound/cards
[18:42] <pandoras> i had a roommate, and his xsever was not working anymore, because he has set the fix BUS-ID for the card.
[18:42] <ailo> This is my device: 2 [M66            ]: ICE1712 - M Audio Delta 66
[18:42] <ailo> In qjackctl, I write: hw:M66
[18:42] <ailo> Instead of hw:2
[18:43] <pandoras>  2 [PCI            ]: ICE1724 - Terrasoniq TS22 PCI
[18:43] <pandoras>                       Terrasoniq TS22 PCI at 0xec00, irq 18
[18:43] <pandoras> that means only type "PCI" as setting?
[18:43] <ailo> hw:PCI
[18:44] <ailo> Try that. Should work. You type it in manually
[18:44] <pandoras> thx, very useful to know
[18:44] <pandoras> i figured out how the midi controlers of my keyboard with Ardour works :D
[18:46] <pandoras> do you know if yoshimi does support midi-mapping-controller?
[18:46] <ailo> I've never tried using midi devices to control ardour, but I assume it's mostly about assigning the right midi ctrl value, and channel to whatever you want to control
[18:47] <ailo> Never heard of midi-mapping-controller
[18:47] <pandoras> i mean put a midi controller to any parameter
[18:48] <ailo> I think qmidiroute might be helpful, if you can't create a template, or save settings in the program you want to use
[18:48] <pandoras> zynAdd/Yoshimi is so amazing and kickass
[18:48] <pandoras> sad that important features are missing
[19:41] <pandoras> ailo, kthxbye