[00:22] <bkerensa> jbicha: +1
[00:22] <bkerensa> :)
[00:28] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe we can just click random ads :P
[00:52] <IdleOne> bkerensa: I wasn't being sarcastic
[00:57] <bkerensa> IdleOne: So far I think your right I have seen a small sample of people actually happy about it and mostly negative =/
[00:59] <IdleOne> if i actually liked using all the social media stuff I might apply for a position as PR type person for Canonical.
[01:00] <IdleOne> bkerensa: You probably should. :)
[01:00] <bkerensa> IdleOne: I thought thats what Jono's team does to some degree
[01:00] <bkerensa> one of their functions at least
[01:00] <bkerensa> ?
[01:01] <IdleOne> Sure, but they can only put out there what they are told about I guess.
[01:01] <IdleOne> Just seems like every time there is something that might generate funds for Canonical it is dropped on us without any explanations
[01:03] <bkerensa> Yeah
[01:04] <IdleOne> I bet if jono had 1 person dedicated to keeping the community up to date, it would lighten his teams load and make his job that much easier. I think Canonical likes playing damage control (very Republican of them :P )
[01:04] <bkerensa> There is not very good synergy always between Canonical and Community
[01:04] <bkerensa> this seems to be one of those times
[01:04] <IdleOne> exactly.
[01:05] <bkerensa> IdleOne: Yeah Jono should have a Marketing Specialist or something
[01:29] <greg-g> IdleOne: good point re another person to do that
[01:30] <greg-g> IdleOne: you *would* think that it was already done by the current crew, but they are already over committed on their own domains keeping things moving smoothly there that things like this aren't even in their purvue (it would probably only arguably be within jono's)
[01:30] <greg-g> which means: I don't blame the community team, but, maybe another horseperson is needed
[01:35] <bkerensa> :) we didnt even get global jam announced this year
[01:40] <JoseeAntonioR> I can talk to jono about that if we get the idea consolidated, maybe a couple emails would work to see what can the solution be
[01:47] <greg-g> simply: a communications person for the community.
[01:50] <JoseeAntonioR> greg-g: can we make the idea, like, more clear and specific, giving examples of what does that mean
[01:50] <JoseeAntonioR> ?
[01:51] <pleia2> the Community Council has already offered several times to take on this role, but Canonical still doesn't talk to us much (Mark gives us heads up on some things sometimes, but nothing lately)
[01:51] <pleia2> so we stick to strickly community stuff these days
[01:53] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe we can try a weekly update system, like Jono writes down everything that happened during that  week that's important, and then communicates the community
[01:55] <greg-g> JoseeAntonioR: I don't think adding anything to Jono's plate will work
[01:55] <greg-g> I've talked about this with Jono a few times, in fact
[01:55] <greg-g> apparently, many long time Ubuntu Members have voiced this same concern multiple times via various channels (judging from pleia2's comment).
[01:56] <greg-g> s/judging/extrapolating/
[01:56] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, not jono, but people from the different teams?
[01:56] <JoseeAntonioR> the first thing we should note is that this is a difficult issue and will take time to resolve, but we should start now, or will never finish
[01:57] <pleia2> it's been discussed a lot, the trouble is that Canonical is a company, they want unveilings and surprises and they have secrets business-wise
[01:58] <pleia2> working with a community is hard
[01:58] <greg-g> exactly
[01:58] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, but they will say things at some point, right?
[01:58] <greg-g> my main critique is that when this type of stuff is announced, the people doing it seem to forget about the community. That is and was the biggest thing I gave as feedback before
[01:59] <greg-g> so, here's the thing: when they DO say things, they need to have 2 press releases. One for the stupid press, and one for the community that uses language we want to hear and addresses our concerns. They have NEVER done that, it has always been damage control
[01:59] <greg-g> I've said this many times, but it is ignored.
[01:59] <pleia2> when Mark has told the CC about things it's been nice, we can give feedback about how it can be handled and how the community reacts
[02:00] <pleia2> er, how the community is likely to react :)
[02:00]  * greg-g nods
[02:00] <JoseeAntonioR> +1
[02:01]  * greg-g shrugs
[02:01] <pleia2> there has been some discussion about having private community lists, but then it gets tied up in who can be on the secret list, and then there are leaks (there was a leak on the CC once, apologies abounded)
[02:01] <greg-g> I don't care much for that, really, that is just yet another old boys club
[02:01] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe they can do one release, and the community can then announce to the press
[02:02] <JoseeAntonioR> if there's something I can help with, count on me, I'd be super glad to
[02:02] <greg-g> It is simple: their PR people don't know anything about the community. They need to, or at least work with Jono et al on the releases (where Jono or someone writes a joint release). It really is that simple. It shows they care about the community equally to the press.
[02:03] <greg-g> It shows they care about the community as much as the press (to clarify my english)
[02:03] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe the CC can write an email explaining all that?
[02:03]  * greg-g shrugs
[02:03] <greg-g> sure, I can write one...
[02:03] <pleia2> greg-g: yeah, that probably is what needs to be done, just separate releases
[02:04] <greg-g> btw, I don't know the details of this situation (I haven't followed it) so I'll float it by you all before I send anything
[02:04] <pleia2> we have a lot of community members who defend Ubuntu to their LUGs and things, it's troublesome when we just have to shrug when people ask us
[02:04] <greg-g> exactamundo
[02:06] <JoseeAntonioR> I think the CC should have a discussion previous to this email
[02:06] <JoseeAntonioR> so we can see what are the exact details of it
[02:06] <greg-g> I'm not on the CC, and I have opinions.
[02:06] <JoseeAntonioR> me too
[02:07] <greg-g> The CC can get involved as they see fit, but I'm drafting an email now to send somewhere :)
[02:07] <greg-g> maybe to the CC
[02:07] <greg-g> ;)
[02:07] <JoseeAntonioR> and they can discuss in their public meetings, where anyone can join and give their opinions
[02:08] <greg-g> whatever, no need to jam this up in committee right now
[02:09] <pleia2> it should be discussed everywhere by everyone, go greg-g :)
[02:09] <greg-g> word
[02:10] <pleia2> also, I'm going to see about doing an ubuntu hour/see pleia2 before she runs out of the country for a month thing the first week in october, you should come
[02:10] <pleia2> probably do dinner
[02:10] <philballew> pleia2, is leaving us here in America
[02:11] <pleia2> America is sorted :)
[02:11] <greg-g> pleia2: definitely, it has been too long
[02:11] <pleia2> need to go fix other things
[02:11] <greg-g> hah
[02:21] <greg-g> pleia2: JoseeAntonioR http://paste.mitechie.com/show/805/
[02:24] <JoseeAntonioR> looks great
[02:26] <greg-g> did I represent the Amazon thing well? I mean, I haven't seen it yet, is there a blog post complaining about it I could read? :)
[02:26]  * greg-g checks planet.u.c
[02:26] <greg-g> oh, bkerensa ;)
[02:27] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, looks fine
[02:27] <greg-g> ok, yeah
[02:27] <greg-g> alright, to the CC?
[02:28] <greg-g> I'll cc: jono
[02:29] <greg-g> pleia2: ping, just in case you see something
[02:29]  * greg-g waits
[02:30] <pleia2> that's good
[02:30] <pleia2> I'd actually do it the other way - send to Jono and Cc the CC
[02:31] <greg-g> ah, fair point. and I agree
[02:31] <pleia2> it's really To: Canonical (and the CC is well aware of these issues)
[02:31]  * greg-g nods
[02:31] <greg-g> right
[02:35] <IdleOne> I don't think the community can fix the problem of Canonical not communicating with us. This is an issue that Canonical needs to fix and the Community can and should be a part of the solution, but there definitely needs to be a Canonical representative at the head of all this. IMHO
[02:36] <JoseeAntonioR> that's where Jono comes in
[02:36] <JoseeAntonioR> he's part of Canonical
[02:37]  * greg-g nods
[02:37] <greg-g> right, the community can't fix it, otherwise pleia2 and I would have already
[02:37] <greg-g> ;)
[02:37] <JoseeAntonioR> :P
[02:37] <IdleOne> Which is why I suggested his team gets someone who only worries about getting info out to the community.
[02:38] <JoseeAntonioR> IdleOne: that's hard, but possible. let's see what they say first
[02:38] <JoseeAntonioR> once we get their point of view, we'll see what can be done
[02:38] <greg-g> I like that, really. It can't be yet-another-thing-on-jono's-todo-list, but if someone was tasked with it, and had authority to go grab people from marketing and product development, that would be good
[02:40] <greg-g> sent
[02:40] <JoseeAntonioR> great, thanks so much, greg-g.
[02:40] <JoseeAntonioR> let us know if there's something
[02:41] <greg-g> definitely
[02:41] <greg-g> I'll hold off blogging it as that'll fragment the conversation unneededly too soon
[02:42] <JoseeAntonioR> yeah, JoseeAntonioR agrees
[02:45] <greg-g> :)
[02:50] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, I'm out for today, hope to hear from you guys!
[02:52] <greg-g> yep, take care!
[02:58] <cprofitt> hey greg-g
[02:58] <greg-g> heya
[03:00] <cprofitt> how have you been?
[03:01] <greg-g> alright, taking on more work at work, and ramping up some projects, so busy during the days. But, keeping my evenings free for Rowan time :)
[03:01] <greg-g> Rowan is amazing :)
[03:01] <greg-g> Said his first word yesterday; Book.
[03:01] <cprofitt> yes, kids are amazing... and should be our focus as fathers
[03:01] <cprofitt> that is awesome -- first words are thrilling
[03:02] <cprofitt> I am putting in a great deal of time with cub scouts with my son
[03:03] <greg-g> cool! I was a scout (I mostly skipped webloes)
[03:03] <greg-g> went to Life scout and stopped. "too cool" and all.
[03:03] <cprofitt> he started as a Tiger cub -- I took on the role of Den Leader
[03:03] <cprofitt> yeah... I discovered girls and then stopped progressing too
[03:04] <cprofitt> I was a Life scout and had progressed a bit toward Eagle.
[03:05] <greg-g> yep, ditto. Dang girls ;)
[03:05] <cprofitt> I don't blame the girls... it was my fault for being attracted to them ;)
[04:09] <bkerensa> evening cprofitt
[06:37] <jokerdino> we got some users thinking about the upcoming privacy issues in 12.10 - http://askubuntu.com/q/191897/25798
[12:41] <daker> hello
[18:30] <pleia2> jono: thank you
[18:31] <jono> pleia2, np
[18:31] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue284#Amazon_search_results_in_the_Dash is what I ended up for UWN to be released tomorrow (suggestions welcome from anyone)
[18:32] <SergioMeneses> pleia2, :O