| ebel | I presume another large factor is that there's a shortage of software developers everywhere. | 11:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ebel | It's hard for large tech companies who offer lots of money to find developers. I can't imagine working in the public sector with teenagers :P | 11:35 |
| zmoylan | good developers are making money in high paying jobs (not teaching) and bad developers might make bad teachers? | 11:35 |
| ebel | Not to mention IT & tech is much more liberal. Large tech companies sponsor LGBT events. School organisations want to be able to fire teachers who are gay. | 11:36 |
| zmoylan | religious school organisations want to fire teachers who are gay. national schools, not so much. | 11:37 |
| ebel | Microsoft wrote to the washington state legislation saying that the lack of marriage equality is harming their ability to hire people. | 11:37 |
| ebel | "Washington’s employers are at a disadvantage if we cannot offer a similar, equitable and inclusive environment to our talented employees" http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jan12/01-19CorpStatement.aspx | 11:37 |
| ebel | And here pregnant girls can be expelled from schools, gay teachers can be fired. | 11:38 |
| ebel | No wonder you cannot attrack good teachers who can code! | 11:38 |
| zmoylan | not a fan of ms but they were one of the first companies to give the same benefits to same sex partners. good for them on that. | 11:38 |
| ebel | </rant> | 11:38 |
| zmoylan | seems that the laws that allowed a pregnant single mother to be fired in the 80s were still being debated in late 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Flynn | 11:41 |
| ebel | It's debatable what the law is now. There is cases where a Prodestant teacher's offer of employment was withdrawn, and they won in the equality tribunal/authority/whatever | 11:42 |
| ebel | (I mean the fact that schools are still doing a religious test for employees shows how far behind they are) | 11:43 |
| zmoylan | they can get away with a lot claiming it goes against the ethos of the school | 11:43 |
| ebel | so it's debatable how much power that gives them. | 11:43 |
| zmoylan | it being ireland it gives a lot of wiggle room | 11:43 |
| zmoylan | which favours the one with the best most expensive legal support | 11:44 |
| ebel | But if you're at all liberal and can code, why take the risk? Why not work in a high paid job where you *know* the employer isn;t going to be an arse? | 11:44 |
| zmoylan | and it's almost impossible i believe to hire male teachers as it only takes one false claim of abuse by a school kid to end their career. | 11:46 |
| ebel | I had male teachers. Your statement doesn't match reality | 11:48 |
| zmoylan | the number is dropping quite a bit since i went to school in 70s and 80s. http://www.ippn.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124:donec-sapien-metus&catid=36:education-news&Itemid=101 | 11:50 |
| ebel | "Ms Hanafin said the starting salary for a primary school teacher with an honours degree, at " hahahahahahahahahahaha | 11:52 |
| zmoylan | well the low pay doesn't help either | 11:52 |
| ebel | *ahem* "Ms Hanafin said the starting salary for a primary school teacher with an honours degree, at almost €34,000, would rival the starting salaries of engineers," hhahaah | 11:52 |
| ebel | yeah, but you have to work with teenagers. :P | 11:52 |
| ebel | oh wait primary school | 11:52 |
| zmoylan | the starting salaries of engineers can be very low in some fields. guessing she cherrypicked a field in case it was asked. | 11:53 |
| ebel | well, kids can be annoying but maybe less so | 11:53 |
| ebel | It's probably easier to go up to payscale for engineers | 11:53 |
| zmoylan | that is definitely true | 11:53 |
| ebel | that article has no reference to numbers going up or down | 11:53 |
| zmoylan | whereas in education you have to wait for predecessors to retire to die | 11:53 |
| ebel | or it's all based on the number of years in the job | 11:54 |
| zmoylan | in uk 25% of primary schools have no male teachers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/mar/23/male-teachers-primary-schools | 11:54 |
| zmoylan | that's an astonishing number i think you'll agree. | 11:54 |
| zmoylan | i'm guessing it's for a lot of reasons instead of one single one but something is lost to the kids trying to learn. | 11:55 |
| ebel | I wonder has it gone up or down.... | 11:55 |
| ebel | quotas a la boardroom quotas for women might help here. | 11:56 |
| zmoylan | in 70s i had all male teachers at primary and in secondary only one female teacher | 11:56 |
| ebel | In a boys school? | 11:56 |
| zmoylan | i can see the sense in quotas but am wary of them | 11:56 |
| * zmoylan is trying to remember if civil service rule on married women affected teachers in 70s. | 12:02 | |
| ebel | don't think so | 12:02 |
| zmoylan | ah, primary teachers got a 'special' exemption. http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/sisters/changes-from-1970s.html :-/ | 12:05 |
| zmoylan | mind you this is ireland and when we first had an equal rights officer appointed for the government they advertised different pay scales for male and female applicants. :-p | 12:07 |
| zmoylan | there are times i'm stunned we don't still drill holes in peoples heads to let out the evil spirits. | 12:10 |
| ebel | hahaha | 12:19 |
| ebel | got a source for the equality different pay thing? | 12:20 |
| zmoylan | i remember it first in a 80s comedy book of true stories 'heroic book of failures' and have occasionly tried to track it down to a source since then but no luck so far. | 12:32 |
| zmoylan | might give it a shot tonight while insomnia strikes | 12:33 |
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