[11:34] I presume another large factor is that there's a shortage of software developers everywhere. [11:35] It's hard for large tech companies who offer lots of money to find developers. I can't imagine working in the public sector with teenagers :P [11:35] good developers are making money in high paying jobs (not teaching) and bad developers might make bad teachers? [11:36] Not to mention IT & tech is much more liberal. Large tech companies sponsor LGBT events. School organisations want to be able to fire teachers who are gay. [11:37] religious school organisations want to fire teachers who are gay. national schools, not so much. [11:37] Microsoft wrote to the washington state legislation saying that the lack of marriage equality is harming their ability to hire people. [11:37] "Washington’s employers are at a disadvantage if we cannot offer a similar, equitable and inclusive environment to our talented employees" http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jan12/01-19CorpStatement.aspx [11:38] And here pregnant girls can be expelled from schools, gay teachers can be fired. [11:38] No wonder you cannot attrack good teachers who can code! [11:38] not a fan of ms but they were one of the first companies to give the same benefits to same sex partners. good for them on that. [11:38] [11:41] seems that the laws that allowed a pregnant single mother to be fired in the 80s were still being debated in late 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Flynn [11:42] It's debatable what the law is now. There is cases where a Prodestant teacher's offer of employment was withdrawn, and they won in the equality tribunal/authority/whatever [11:43] (I mean the fact that schools are still doing a religious test for employees shows how far behind they are) [11:43] they can get away with a lot claiming it goes against the ethos of the school [11:43] so it's debatable how much power that gives them. [11:43] it being ireland it gives a lot of wiggle room [11:44] which favours the one with the best most expensive legal support [11:44] But if you're at all liberal and can code, why take the risk? Why not work in a high paid job where you *know* the employer isn;t going to be an arse? [11:46] and it's almost impossible i believe to hire male teachers as it only takes one false claim of abuse by a school kid to end their career. [11:48] I had male teachers. Your statement doesn't match reality [11:50] the number is dropping quite a bit since i went to school in 70s and 80s. http://www.ippn.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124:donec-sapien-metus&catid=36:education-news&Itemid=101 [11:52] "Ms Hanafin said the starting salary for a primary school teacher with an honours degree, at " hahahahahahahahahahaha [11:52] well the low pay doesn't help either [11:52] *ahem* "Ms Hanafin said the starting salary for a primary school teacher with an honours degree, at almost €34,000, would rival the starting salaries of engineers," hhahaah [11:52] yeah, but you have to work with teenagers. :P [11:52] oh wait primary school [11:53] the starting salaries of engineers can be very low in some fields. guessing she cherrypicked a field in case it was asked. [11:53] well, kids can be annoying but maybe less so [11:53] It's probably easier to go up to payscale for engineers [11:53] that is definitely true [11:53] that article has no reference to numbers going up or down [11:53] whereas in education you have to wait for predecessors to retire to die [11:54] or it's all based on the number of years in the job [11:54] in uk 25% of primary schools have no male teachers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/mar/23/male-teachers-primary-schools [11:54] that's an astonishing number i think you'll agree. [11:55] i'm guessing it's for a lot of reasons instead of one single one but something is lost to the kids trying to learn. [11:55] I wonder has it gone up or down.... [11:56] quotas a la boardroom quotas for women might help here. [11:56] in 70s i had all male teachers at primary and in secondary only one female teacher [11:56] In a boys school? [11:56] i can see the sense in quotas but am wary of them [12:02] * zmoylan is trying to remember if civil service rule on married women affected teachers in 70s. [12:02] don't think so [12:05] ah, primary teachers got a 'special' exemption. http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/sisters/changes-from-1970s.html :-/ [12:07] mind you this is ireland and when we first had an equal rights officer appointed for the government they advertised different pay scales for male and female applicants. :-p [12:10] there are times i'm stunned we don't still drill holes in peoples heads to let out the evil spirits. [12:19] hahaha [12:20] got a source for the equality different pay thing? [12:32] i remember it first in a 80s comedy book of true stories 'heroic book of failures' and have occasionly tried to track it down to a source since then but no luck so far. [12:33] might give it a shot tonight while insomnia strikes