[00:16] <christel> rawr
[00:18] <Seeker`> o/
[00:19] <Darael> Mid-night uuk denizens! Run!
[00:19] <AlanBell> evening all
[00:20] <Dave2> morning
[00:20] <Seeker`> Dave2: you have to be different!
[00:21]  * Seeker` wonders if Dave2 still prints out every leet o'clock
[00:30] <Azelphur> :p
[00:33] <Dave2> Seeker`, no :(
[00:34] <Seeker`> :( :(
[00:34] <Dave2> after I realized I'd spent several hours of my life doing it
[00:34] <Seeker`> haha
[04:58] <bootlknvf> Mornin' everyone !
[07:22] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:01] <christel> GOOOOOD MORNING
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> \o christel
[08:23] <christel> maaaartijn :D
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> time for tea!
[08:53] <popey> morning
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> howdy popeyman
[09:07] <jacobw> morning ubunteros
[09:09]  * Laney wonders why the archers is entering his brain
[09:10] <Laney> OFF
[09:10] <pinky-> Laney, because you watched DrWho yesterday and got a brainwash?:)
[09:13] <pinky-> archers was mentioned yesterday in the Dr Who episode and I just wondered if it was your subconscious?
[09:14] <popey> Not impressed with this series of Dr Who :(
[09:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:16] <SuperEngineer> o/ brobostigon
[09:17] <jacobw> Laney: check out this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeIEovjOVdI
[09:17] <brobostigon> o/ SuperEngineer
[09:20] <mattt> archers?  that weird show they play on bbc radio?
[09:20] <pinky-> to be honest I stopped watching Dr Who regular back in 1987 when Sylvester McCoy became the Dr.
[09:21] <christel> RAWR
[09:21] <brobostigon> RAWR
[09:21] <christel> :D
[09:21] <christel> Oooh dr who
[09:21] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:21] <brobostigon> last night,
[09:22] <christel> i forgot about dr who amongst the happy houring with AlanBell and bigcalm and Dave2 last night
[09:22] <christel> i should watch it now!
[09:22] <brobostigon> :)
[09:29] <pinky-> Though I will say the last two Doctors have been a lot less "Pantomime" and I do now at times watch the odd episode. It's been better since
[09:29] <pinky-> David Tennant
[09:30] <popey> hmm, where can I buy bento flakes round here
[09:31] <Laney> bonito
[09:31] <Laney> ?
[09:31] <popey> duh, yeah
[09:31] <Laney> local chinese supermarket does them here
[09:31] <Laney> well s/chinese/asian/?
[09:31] <popey> i dont think we have any of those close by
[09:31]  * popey rummages..
[09:32] <popey> but not in iOS6 maps.. AMIRITE!?
[09:32] <AlanBell> popey: in Aldershot near the station
[09:32] <popey> ooh
[09:33] <pinky-> When I live in Alton and then later Bordon, my local DHSS was in Aldershot:)
[09:33] <pinky-> near the station
[09:33] <popey> Seyma Food Centre?
[09:33] <popey> http://goo.gl/maps/p40qr
[09:33] <AlanBell> yeah
[09:33] <popey> thanks
[09:34] <AlanBell> dunno if they have that specifically
[09:34] <Laney> give them a tinkle
[09:34] <AlanBell> the corner shop over the road from there does nice biltong (was no biltong in the seyma shop)
[09:34]  * popey is doing that
[09:35] <popey> no, they dont
[09:38]  * gord got a new ipad3 for £350, good deal
[09:38] <gord> its not as good as everyone makes it out to be..
[09:40] <popey> gord, are you in foreign?
[09:41] <gord> yup
[09:41] <jacobw> in foreign?
[09:41] <popey> abroad
[09:41] <gord> spending two weeks in seoul, half way done. gonna go hike a mountain tomorrow!
[09:41]  * jacobw shakes head
[09:42] <popey> what made you choose seoul?
[09:42] <popey> also, get back here and fix unity! :)
[09:43] <jacobw> he's looking for seoul mate
[09:43] <gord> i didn't know much about korea and wanted to know more :) really interesting history
[09:43] <jacobw> (really sorry)
[09:44] <gord> went to the DMZ yesterday and stood in north korea
[09:44]  * SuperEngineer hums "Paint It Black"...
[09:45] <jacobw> how was it gord ?
[09:46] <gord> fantastic
[09:46] <gord> https://picasaweb.google.com/112811220238447511854/DMZAndJMATour?authuser=0&feat=directlink have photos
[09:48] <popey> cool
[10:02] <popey> i see Sascha Pallenberg is in Seoul too, is there a conf on?
[10:08] <gord> iruno? i'm certainly not here for anything
[10:10] <popey> gord, you played nikki and the robots yet?
[10:10] <gord> nup, looks cool
[10:12] <popey> it is, very, lots of community levels and an editor
[10:14] <popey> pay what you want too
[10:15] <Laney> what's the difference between that and the Free version?
[10:33] <popey> the pay version gets you the levels they designed
[10:35] <Laney> ah
[10:35] <Laney> there's a package but I haven't built it yet to see what you get
[10:36]  * Laney svn co svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/nikki
[10:40] <popey> when you pay you get a 'key' which lets you download the extra content
[10:40] <popey> which works really nicely inside the app, it's a very well designed app
[10:40] <popey> e.g. when you go full screen it just works (as it should) unlike most of the humble bundle on linux this time around
[10:44] <pinky-> wow I just found another new word in a new news story, Headline reads, "World Record One Petabit per Second Fiber Transmission over 50-km."
[10:45] <pinky-> well new word to me anyweays
[10:45] <pinky-> anyways*
[11:05] <pinky-> A petabit is one thousand terabits and a terabit is one trillion binary digit s, or 1,000,000,000,000 (that is, 10 12 ) bits. My mind has gone BLANK.
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> F1 time almost
[11:05] <pinky-> MartijnVdS, yeah 5 mins
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> anyway of doing a ban on the troll?
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> *any way
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: troll? Where?
[11:07] <SuperEngineer> is now known as [various inflamatory names]
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> ah him
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> he who changes names every few hours
[11:08] <SuperEngineer> that be the one
[11:10] <pinky-> F1 is about to start, need coffee!
[11:11] <SuperEngineer> vrooom vrooom....
[11:11] <Laney> yes, you definitely need caffeine to survive F1
[11:12]  * SuperEngineer switches status to "Watching F1" [& sends pity in Laney's direction]
[11:12]  * Laney is going to go out :P
[11:12] <Laney> after test installing nikki
[11:13] <SuperEngineer> Laney: if you're lucky you'll end up in a pub with F1 on 80" widescreen
[11:13] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[11:39]  * MartijnVdS likes his 46" :)
[11:41] <pinky-> I bet Eddie Jordan's jeans look even more strange on 46"
[11:41] <MartijnVdS> Eddie rocks :)
[11:42] <SuperEngineer_> just seen that somehow I'm on here as me & me_ ... wtf????
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> You, yourself and you?
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: 2 clients, or a disconnect of some kind :)
[11:44] <SuperEngineer_> suspects netbook disconnect - forget it was even on -whoops
[11:44] <SuperEngineer_> time to log off both & stop this Dr. Who impersonation
[11:47] <SuperEngineer> You are now identified for SuperEngineer.  -that's what I wanted, thanks Freenode...
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> \o SuperEngineer
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> ...next time please tell me - hey, you left the netbook on! Thankyou
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> o?
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> :)
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> \o = \o/ but with only 1 arm in the air :)
[11:49] <penguin42> the other one is busy....
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, Eddie Jordan on TV.....
[11:50] <SuperEngineer> o? was to check if my arm still worked after becoming a split personality - dodgy stuff this time warping ;)
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: easier than space warping..
[11:51] <SuperEngineer> [plus I was distracted by salute to th2the prof"
[11:51] <SuperEngineer> *"the prof"
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> they had a feature about him yesterday
[11:52]  * SuperEngineer nearly has all molecules back in one body - non quantomly speaking
[11:53] <SuperEngineer> - it would spoil the race but it would be oh so nice to have a tribute random safety car lap
[11:53] <MartijnVdS> safety car RACE
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> \o/ HD TV
[11:54] <penguin42> HD safety car - or smoke?
[11:56] <SuperEngineer> wot - no smoke?
[11:56]  * SuperEngineer looks a tobacco ... mmmm
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[11:58] <SuperEngineer> verb - to smoke - to act like a tyre on a Ferrari with no traction control
[11:58] <SuperEngineer> [or a Top Gear presenter]
[12:01]  * SuperEngineer doubts that these F1 cars carry a Boot Repair CD... SuperEngineers do
[12:02]  * SuperEngineer smiles smugly
[12:03] <pinky-> silver Rizla ftw
[12:03] <SuperEngineer> Dinosaurs on a spaceship?  I await "Tiny Vroom Vrooms on a Tardis" episode ;)
[12:12] <SuperEngineer> In case it adds to anyones enjoyment of the race: live race on TV, live timings from F1.com, pit lane radio [livish] from BBC formula1 site.  F1 heaven.
[12:13] <brobostigon> i have the timings from the bbc f1 site.
[12:13] <pinky-> yup and ad-free heaven
[12:13] <brobostigon> the almost ncurses terminal, view.
[12:14] <brobostigon> pinky-: yup :)
[12:25] <pinky-> 28 seconds total pit time is a long pit, Singapore pit stops dramatically change positions
[12:28] <pinky-> But Singapore have a 100% record for saftey car so I guess that will always bring the cars all back together at times.
[12:29]  * pinky- waits for the Saftey Car
[12:34] <SuperEngineer> pinky-: if a certain 2 drivers keep driving the same way your wish will soon be granted
[12:38] <einonm> I've just read a rather interesting blog post from Mr Shuttleworth, regarding Amazon search results.
[12:40] <pinky-> SuperEngineer, yup or a drivers investigation of a curiously close wall
[12:41] <einonm> One line caught my eye in particular - "we have root". Can anyone shed some light on what he means? I assume it's not what I think it is.
[12:42] <penguin42> URL?
[12:42] <SuperEngineer> einonm: I think you can safely assume it wasn't root beer
[12:42]  * SuperEngineer also awaits URL
[12:42] <einonm> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182#comments
[12:43] <SuperEngineer> cheers
[12:45] <penguin42> einonm: Yes, that's a 'we can already do everything to your machine, so don't worry that we're doing something else'
[12:46] <popey> indeed
[12:46] <popey> you already trust ubuntu developers with root access to your machine, every time you use software centre / apt / synaptic / dpkg
[12:47] <einonm> Ok, fair enough. Not the most media friendly way of putting it though!
[12:48] <einonm> I've only just started using ubuntu in anger, that sort of comment doesn't really endear me to the platform.
[12:49] <SuperEngineer> popey: isn't there a slight difference there? as in "I know I handed over control -temporarily-" ?
[12:49] <popey> its just an example
[12:49] <popey> there's plenty of other things which run as root on your machine
[12:49] <SuperEngineer> indeed
[12:50] <SuperEngineer> ...and to give it another advert - including the Ubuntu Boot Repair utility - thanks ye gads it does!
[12:53] <SuperEngineer> [it does what you know it does - & it does it when you've been recovering with gparted & your eyes are tired]
[12:55] <einonm> popey: true, but I trust the average developer more than someone who talks about what is essentially dropping adware onto my computer
[12:56] <brobostigon> thats the pub visit out of the window. rain, :(
[12:56] <SuperEngineer> I notice nobody picks up the next comment "In summary – please don’t feed the trolls". well said, Mr. S.
[12:56] <popey> einonm, same people
[12:57]  * SuperEngineer hands brobostigon a virtual brolly
[12:57] <brobostigon> :)
[12:57]  * brobostigon thanks SuperEngineer 
[12:58] <einonm> popey: that's a bit of a sweeping statement! Not all (not even the majority?) of the software on ubuntu is written by Ubuntu developers, to whom I think you're referring
[12:59] <popey> you misunderstood my point
[12:59] <popey> the people who made the shopping lens are the same people who also have root on your box
[13:00]  * SuperEngineer hands einomm a pair of virtual safety goggles, fireproof oversuit, magic shield & running shoes.. & good luck!
[13:01] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:01] <penguin42> popey: I just asked for a pointer to how the anonymisation is done; I pointed out that while you do indeed have root at least we can see the source to the packages we get
[13:02] <einonm> popey: Ah, ok. But I guess you're giving root to anyone who has written any of the code that then runs.
[13:02] <popey> its not a useful point that he's made
[13:03] <einonm> popey: Maybe not useful to ubuntu, but I could argue that it's useful to someone deciding which distro to use!
[13:03] <popey> you know of a distro where there are no developers which have root on your machine?
[13:04] <SuperEngineer> ooo, me sir, me sir, me sir; I do!!
[13:04] <einonm> popey: not unless I put one together myself after reading all the code?
[13:04] <popey> exactly
[13:04] <SuperEngineer> [it's called the mains plug]
[13:05] <einonm> but that arrangement is based on trust - and I think I'm basically saying that comments like that erode the trust
[13:06] <einonm> As I'm not fluent with lenses yet - you can just remove them, right?
[13:06] <penguin42> gah for some reason my comment has been by flagged by the Akismet spam detector - heck knows why, I wonder how the moderation system works
[13:07] <SuperEngineer> pinky-: your wish just came true
[13:08] <pinky-> safe ty!
[13:10] <SuperEngineer> einomm - it is, I hope, still a -circle- of trust, not just trusting one bod - *that* is the thing that must be defended & *proved* in such a scenario, & seems to have been forgotten by an interviewee
[13:17]  * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for suggesting some people are kindling their own trust with pound coins
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> & if anybody got that meaning - slap my other wrist for not being obscure enough ;)

[13:24] <pinky-> umm

[13:26] <SuperEngineer> ...this is the one that has a professor in thepassenger seat
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> now would be a good time for the nedical car to a memorial lap of honour
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> *to do a
[13:29] <einonm> SuperEngineer: As long as the source code is there, I'm not too worried!
[13:29]  * einonm takes the foil hat off now.
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> heh https://twitter.com/sarcasticapple/status/249556622228213760
[13:34] <balor> Anyone have a working Samsung ML 2168 printer?
[13:35] <StevenR> balor: iirc, Samsung provide drivers for their printers...somewhere
[13:35] <StevenR> I've made them work in the past
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/ ...I was one of the founder's ;)
[13:35] <balor> StevenR, kinda.
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: one of the founder's what?
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> correct
[13:35] <balor> StevenR, I don't quite get whether I should be using splix or some binary from Sammy
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ @ SuperEngineer
[13:36] <StevenR> balor: splix?
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> won't plugging in the printer start an automatic download though?
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> I've seen that happen with Epson drivers
[13:36] <balor> StevenR, Apparently an implementation of SPL (Samsung PRinter Language) for CUPS
[13:37] <balor> MartijnVdS, This printer seems to be too new for the available packages.  But the newer PPD doesn't work, so there must be some binary magic going on somewhere.
[13:37] <SuperEngineer> sometime's, the way peoles's's use apostroph'es in the wrong the p'lace can be annoying
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> balor: this is why I buy printers that list "Postscript" or "PCL" as a supported protocol/language ;)
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> sometimes it's just a mis'take
[13:39] <balor> MartijnVdS, I should've done that.  Normally I don't buy anything that isn't on the linux printers database....time to return this
[13:39] <penguin42> balor: Which one is it?
[13:39] <StevenR> balor: I think Samsung provide drivers
[13:40] <penguin42> Sammy are normally pretty good about Linux support - I've had two that just worked
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> Did anyone notice the Ubuntu release manager in yesterday's Doctor Who? :)
[13:41] <balor> penguin42, ML-2168
[13:42] <penguin42> balor: And what happens - is it recognised at all?
[13:42] <balor> StevenR, They seem to provide a 42Mb tar.gz that puts binaries all over the place
[13:43] <balor> penguin42, It's recognised, configured as a 2150, by default, but does nothing.  If I change the driver to something incorrect, it prints an error - bad driver - message
[13:43] <balor> It looks as if the 216* series is quite new
[13:45] <penguin42> balor: Can you submit a bug for it
[13:46] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: surely you mean "in next week's" Dr. Who... whoops - darn this time travel!
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah yesterday's
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> more proof that Canonical = UNIT
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> :D
[13:48] <penguin42> balor: Looks even the ml-2150 is listed as untested on the splix site
[13:49] <SuperEngineer> ...but the mitilia aren't in Canonical HQ yet. [hang on - I'll have a quick look see.]
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: no secret basements?
[13:49]  * SuperEngineer jumps forward a little teensy weensy bit
[13:50] <SuperEngineer>   - Damn.... very soon now!]
[13:51] <SuperEngineer> & the place is full of little cubes, not dinosaurs!
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> next week is going to be sad :(
[13:51] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: You could try reselling them on amazon
[13:52] <SuperEngineer> end of pretty lady & less than pretty man?
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I did... three decades from now .... everyone said they were boring... didn't do anything. no sale
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but come Christmas, new pretty lady!
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I did... three decades from now .... everyone said they were boring... didn't do anything. no sale;(
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they'll show up in the dash anyway
[13:54] <SuperEngineer> ;(
[13:55] <SuperEngineer> hmmm Senna has become a decorator?  "Senna brushed the wall just now" according to commentator
[13:56] <SuperEngineer> he's not very good - nice blue colour walls but obviously keeps missing large bits
[13:58] <SuperEngineer> 1st person to come up with a Dr. Who, Formula 1 & Amazon combined sensible comment gets a Darwin award
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Brazilian GP, TARDIS materializes on track?
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> that's Formula 1 in the Amazon + Doctor Who
[14:00] <SuperEngineer> StevenR: you came close with "I think Samsung provide drivers" but no Amazon comment.. you're saved
[14:01]  * SuperEngineer ignores MartijnVdS comment... obviously trying too hard  :D
[14:02] <SuperEngineer> ...but in view of the lack of other contenders......
[14:02] <Azelphur> barclay/google are trolling me, I tried to use pingit but they block me because I have a rooted phone, now that I've tried to use it they keep showing me adverts for it even though they won't let me use it :@
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: stop rooting your phone :)
[14:02] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: xD
[14:02] <Azelphur> it's funny because there's no real bonus to security anyway
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> I've only unlocked my bootloader
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> not rooted
[14:03] <Azelphur> hehe, I need root :)
[14:03] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: stop trying to reply or feed them... danger will; robinson, Danger
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: coin mining eh
[14:03] <Azelphur> SuperEngineer: xD
[14:04] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: titanium backup / datasync / clocking / rom manager are a few reasons I use root :)
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: My data syncs with Google.. I don't need over/underclocking
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I use stock ROM
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> so.. meh :
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> :)
[14:04] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you can auto sync app data with google?
[14:04] <Azelphur> eg save games?
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> games? on a phone?
[14:05] <Azelphur> and a tablet
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> some preferences are saved to google
[14:05] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:05] <Azelphur> not at all similar to datasync
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> I don't have games.. other than Wordfeud which stores everything server-side
[14:05] <Azelphur> :P
[14:10] <SuperEngineer> did anyone else spot the major guff at the end of the F1 race commentary?
[14:11] <penguin42> http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/industrial-robots/rethink-robotics-baxter-robot-factory-worker   nice robot  (running Linux apparently)
[14:11] <SuperEngineer> "as the safety cars and fireworks explode above the track"
[14:12] <SuperEngineer> good on ya Sid - RIP
[14:49] <Azelphur> have we passed the point of no return for changes in 12.10 yet?
[14:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
[14:50] <Azelphur> fun
[14:50] <penguin42> Azelphur: So there are some freezes not for another week or two
[14:50] <Azelphur> desktopinfrastructurefreeze, I assume that means we're stuck with the whole privacy leaking amazon thing now?
[14:50] <penguin42> Azelphur: Looks like it, you can remove the package that does it
[14:51] <Azelphur> yea, leaking privacy by default isn't my cup of tea though.
[14:51] <popey> *sigh*
[14:51] <penguin42> Azelphur: I agree
[14:51] <Azelphur> popey: figured you'd have an alternate opinion, lets hear it :)
[14:52] <penguin42> popey: But security doesn't seem to be on the agenda in any of the design, things like the default guest session (and not having a GUI way to disable it) are the same type of lack of thought
[14:52] <popey> Nope. Been talked about over and over for the last 8 hours
[14:53] <penguin42> apologies, that was intended for Azelphur:
[14:53] <Azelphur> scrolled up a bit and perused over what you said :)
[14:53] <Azelphur> I agree trusting the developers is one thing
[14:54] <Azelphur> sending all my searches, unencrypted, to an advertiser, is a totally different one.
[14:54] <popey> you're wrong
[14:54] <popey> they aren't
[14:54] <popey> but lets not let facts get in the way of a good mis-informed rant eh?
[14:54] <Azelphur> according to the bug report I read that they are unencrypted *shrug*
[14:54] <penguin42> Azelphur: It's anonymised somehow - it doesn't apparently go straight to Amazon
[14:54] <popey> has 12.10 been released yet?
[14:54] <Azelphur> popey: no, but the freeze is in place
[14:54] <popey> so?
[14:55] <Azelphur> so it's not going to change?
[14:55] <popey> it can
[14:55]  * Azelphur shrugs
[14:55] <Azelphur> fair enough, I shall wait and see
[14:56] <Azelphur> they have to send the search query to amazon eventually though, even if it is anonymous it's still not good.
[14:56] <popey> not every search query
[14:56] <Azelphur> how does it decide which to send and which not to send?
[14:57] <penguin42> Azelphur: Agreed, although it's unlikely to reveal much in the query if you can't tell where it's from, but it is possible
[14:57] <popey> if you search from the files lens, or applications lens it wont
[14:57] <penguin42> Azelphur: Do you have the bug number for the unencrypted bug?
[14:57] <popey> or many other lenses
[14:57] <Azelphur> penguin42: sure it is, I've installed Ubuntu on machines owned by doctors that have patient records on their machines, leaking the file names would be totally illegal.
[14:57] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-shopping
[14:57] <Azelphur> ah
[14:57] <Azelphur> but the default, press the super button search still searches amazon?
[14:58] <penguin42> Azelphur: Yes, agreed, although searching for JohnSmith but not knowing where it came from wouldn't let you know much; although JohnSmithSyphalisTestResults.odt might :-)
[14:58] <Azelphur> penguin42: indeed, a lot of confidential stuff can be in a file name :)
[14:59] <Azelphur> rofl
[14:59] <Azelphur> "No obvious way to restrict shopping suggestions from displaying adult products"
[14:59]  * Azelphur facepalms
[15:00] <penguin42> Azelphur: What seems to be needed is a makeitsecure package that stops things like that, and guest logins and everything else like it
[15:00] <popey> what's wrong with guest account?
[15:00] <penguin42> popey: It's got more holes than a piece of swiss cheese
[15:00] <popey> examples?
[15:00] <popey> got bugs for example
[15:00] <Azelphur> penguin42: stuff that sends any data to an advertising company needs to be opt-in by default :)
[15:01] <Azelphur> is the simple crux of the matter xD
[15:01] <penguin42> popey: No specifics, but it gives your machine all the classic holes that you can only normally do when logged in; any kernel or X bug can be triggered from it, which is something you tend not to be able to do from an unlogged in terminal
[15:02] <Azelphur> physical access is always game over anyway
[15:02] <Azelphur> tbh
[15:02] <penguin42> Azelphur: Not if done properly
[15:03] <Azelphur> penguin42: yes it is *picks up laptop and drops it out of a window*
[15:03] <penguin42> Azelphur: That's why it's kingston locked to the desk
[15:03] <Azelphur> xD
[15:04] <penguin42> popey: The trivial (very very old school one), since Guest can do full screen windows is that it should be trivial to make a mock lightdm screen and ask for a password
[15:04] <popey> probably wouldn't need to mock lightdm but actually _run_ lightdm :)
[15:06] <penguin42> popey: Nod (we did something similar back in the terminal days at college on 1st Unix box we used :-)
[15:06] <popey> yeah, me too
[15:07] <popey> VT52 terminals connected to a Pr1me computer running Pr1mos
[15:07] <penguin42> popey: The problem really is that there is very little chance of you exposing a bug at the login screen (unless you're SGI)
[15:07] <penguin42> popey: Actually, a specific one - at the 'Remote desktop' registration login on 12.10 should you be able to get a terminal; it's just a Guest account, but it seems to be trying to stop doing things like that
[15:09] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: Azelphur SuperEngineerSanityTestResults.odt you *would* want to see ;)
[15:09] <Azelphur> :P
[15:09] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: It's a very short file isn't it?
[15:10] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: :D
[15:13] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: shortest file on t'internet .. it says -bof-"not"-eof-.
[15:14] <SuperEngineer> ...you should read the file from my own planet though.... much more detail ;)
[15:14] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Mostly not ?
[15:15] <SuperEngineer> yup!
[15:20] <penguin42> interesting, as a guest user I seem to be able to add an arbitrary new wired connection to network manager, visible to the real user
[15:21] <penguin42> with an arbitrary MAC!
[15:21] <penguin42> ahem!
[15:29] <AlanBell> is that really bad?
[15:29] <penguin42> AlanBell: It is if the mac address you pick is of something else on the network
[15:31] <AlanBell> sounds mildly annoying
[15:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: Would you expect a user logged into a guest account to be able to take down your whole network?
[15:34] <SuperEngineer> hmm... DNT article ends "They [certain big companies] have said they will stop serving targeted ads but will still collect and store and monetize data."
[15:36] <SuperEngineer> it's knock me over with a feather time... I'd never have guessed ;)
[15:41] <SuperEngineer> so when your search data is sent to amazon on a totally free op sys...  perhaps we should consider the overall context?
[15:42] <popey> they're on the network, surely someone could plug any random device into the same LAN port and effect the same issue penguin42
[15:42] <penguin42> popey: I'm thinking of somewhere like a library or a school where the boxes/cabling ports might be physically secured
[15:43] <popey> I would imagine such places wouldn't have a default install with guest enabled then
[15:43] <penguin42> popey: It's a shame it's not made easy to disable
[15:43] <popey> pfft, one file to edit _is_ easy
[15:44] <popey> I would imagine a school/library have many other files they edit/deploy
[15:44] <popey> I'd be more bothered if it _wasn't_ something easily editable in /etc
[15:44] <popey> i.e. hard wired
[15:44] <penguin42> sigh, people shouldn't need to go and hack about in config files to make their machine secure
[15:44] <SuperEngineer> re my last: [as in, so far, all I've given Canonical is a pat on the back - so who was paying for my totally free op sys?]
[15:45] <SuperEngineer> ...I'd rather the soft route than the criminal route provided by others
[15:47]  * SuperEngineer has: said his bit, would prefer total privacy, can obtain it if needed, is a realist.... & shuts mouth
[15:51] <pinky-> SuperEngineer, To live in reality is to understand you are connected to everything.
[15:51] <penguin42> popey: I've logged that one as bug 1055068
[15:52] <popey> thanks penguin42
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> pinky-: to live in my reality is to realise everything is connected to me
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> ...phew, back to normal again
[15:56] <SuperEngineer> [just realised just how philosophical that was]... sounds like a case of paranoia
[15:56] <SuperEngineer> ok - who said that! I know you're watcin
[15:56] <SuperEngineer> *watchin
[16:00] <penguin42> popey: I'd be interested to know what is used to restirct /tmp and /proc from guest users, it's interesting
[16:01] <SuperEngineer> The only normal pooter not known to the outside world has no in or out ports, is in a room more secure than fort knox and has no owner
[16:01] <penguin42> Azelphur: At least searching for gimp doesn't bring up anything too unsurprising
[16:01] <Azelphur> penguin42: xD
[16:30] <popey> penguin42, yeah, it's quite cunning
[16:32] <oimon1> afternoon, anyone had problems creating mp3s on rhythmbox in 12.04?
[16:32] <oimon1> canont change settings for mp3.
[16:33] <penguin42> popey: It could do with protecting /sys as well though, although I suspect that's a kernel issue
[16:35] <oimon1> bug 945987
[16:35] <oimon1> i can't get my head around this :(
[16:42] <oimon1> nobody else rip CDs anymore?
[16:47] <balor> oimon1: use sound-juicer?  It's the default CD ripping app in Gnome
[16:47] <oimon1> balor: sound juicer , rhymbox has the same problem. cannot change mp3 setings
[16:48] <oimon1> /change/define
[16:48] <balor> oimon1: It's in the preferences of sound-juicer
[16:48] <oimon1> not for me,
[16:49] <oimon1> are you on 12.04?
[16:50] <balor> oimon1: No. Fedora 17 :)  Do you have the gstreamer mp3 plugin installed?
[16:50] <oimon1> yes
[16:51] <oimon1> they've broken something, i even downloaded the supposed fixed version and it's still broke :(
[16:51] <brobostigon> suggestions, a calendar and contacts server, that will interface with android. ?
[16:52] <oimon1> brobostigon: owncloud?
[16:52] <brobostigon> oimon1: let me look, thank you.
[16:53] <BigRedS> caldav?
[16:53] <balor> brobostigon, I use zarafra
[16:53] <brobostigon> balor: and BigRedS thank for those also.
[16:58] <popey> oimon, leave a comment on the bug?
[16:58] <popey> oimon, settings is greyed out for me, but I dunno if thats because i have no cdrom drive
[16:59] <popey> Laney, set it verification done
[17:02] <oimon1> popey: i'm not actually sure what the rhythmbox update should do
[17:02] <popey> me either, will look into it once kids in bed
[17:02] <oimon1> thx
[17:14] <brobostigon> any suggestions that are in the ubuntu repos?
[17:23] <popey> owncloud is super easy to setup
[17:24] <brobostigon> it seems to have the calendaring, yes.
[17:25] <brobostigon> popey: i will look again.
[17:27] <mattt> brobostigon: exchange?
[17:27]  * mattt lols
[17:28] <brobostigon> haha
[17:55] <penguin42> hehe stuff pops up in odd places; I'm reading a paper on brain imaging (slice and dice a brain, get your RNA expression from different bits) and it describes all the wacky bits of technology and stuff and then has 'sample locations were mapped from histology data into MR space using Inkscape'
[17:58] <popey> heh
[18:10] <BigRedS> Anyone know of a way of changing the number of workspaces in Quantal?
[18:11] <Azelphur> BigRedS: can you not install compizconfig-settings-manager and do it from there?
[18:12] <BigRedS> Azelphur: not that I can find. it used to be 'desktop size' or something, but I can't find anything related there
[18:12] <Azelphur> if you've got ccsm, it should be in general options > desktop size
[18:13] <BigRedS> Azelphur: Ta!
[18:13] <BigRedS> That's hilariously hard to find
[18:13] <BigRedS> I searched for 'Desktop' 'Size' and 'Desktop Size' and didn't get that
[18:13] <Azelphur> :P
[19:25] <brobostigon> why would ping result in the error, connect: Invalid argument
[19:25] <brobostigon>  ?
[19:25] <brobostigon> when the dns addr is correct.
[19:30] <penguin42> not specifying the length or interface?
[19:30] <penguin42> and it's definitely not a broadcast address?
[19:31] <brobostigon> said device, only has one interface i am pingging from, my vps.
[19:32] <penguin42> what type of vps is it ?
[19:32] <brobostigon> debian.
[19:32] <penguin42> but is it a kvm guest or something wackier?
[19:33] <brobostigon> xen, and my dns is with gandi.
[19:34] <penguin42> brobostigon: Odd
[19:34] <brobostigon> penguin42: agreed.
[19:35] <penguin42> brobostigon: Only type of thing I can think of would be something like a corrupt /etc/protocols or the like
[19:35] <brobostigon> penguin42: let me pastebin it.
[19:37] <brobostigon> penguin42: http://paste.debian.net/192285/
[19:39] <penguin42> brobostigon: Looks normal - in particular the icmp line
[19:40] <penguin42> anyway, got to go
[19:40] <brobostigon> ok, thank penguin42
[19:40] <brobostigon> thank you*
[20:09] <zleap> ah hi tombrough
[21:04] <Azelphur> Hmm, trying to debug my printer printing blank pages, it might be out of ink, but Ubuntu says "Marker levels are not reported for this printer", not sure if it's broken or just old or just needs new ink, xD
[21:05] <Azelphur> It's a HP Deskjet F4180
[21:20] <mgdm> I would get new ing
[21:20] <mgdm> ink
[21:20] <Azelphur> righto
[21:28] <Azelphur> lol, just restarted the printer and it shows a big "E" in the LED and is flashing black and color ink symbols, that's fairly conclusive :)
[21:31] <Azelphur> anyone know a good cheap place I might get ink for it, somewhere with next day delivery preferably? :)
[21:36] <popey> i refilled my printer with ink just today
[21:36] <popey> I'd never done the ink refill thing before, turned out eay
[21:36] <popey> *easy
[21:37] <Azelphur> haha, I have a feeling I'd be terrible at something like that and get ink everywhere
[21:38] <Azelphur> I very rarely print too, this was a second hand printer and I've had about 2 years use out of it before it's ran out of ink, lol
[21:38] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002ZOJTQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s02_i00
[21:38] <Azelphur> cool
[21:38] <popey> well, turns out wifey wanted to print a photo all big - A4
[21:38] <popey> I said "we're out of ink", she wanted it printing NOW
[21:39] <Azelphur> haha
[21:39] <popey> So I dug that pack out, which I just looked in my orders for on amazon, turns out I bought it in August 2011, and never used it
[21:39] <popey> that's how little ink I use
[21:39] <popey> I expect to get it out again in another year
[21:39] <Azelphur> fun
[21:40] <popey> but honestly it was pretty easy
[21:40] <popey> peel off the label, inject the ink, job done
[21:40] <Azelphur> out of stock now though XD
[21:40] <popey> only got a tiny bit on the desk :)
[21:40] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:40] <popey> maybe another one thats similar
[21:41] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[21:41] <popey> do you need colour?
[21:41] <Azelphur> yea, and I have a feeling it will be more complex with my cartridges as it's one cartridge for all colors
[21:41] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Just-Refill-Colour-Universal-Starter/dp/B0002ZOJUA/ref=sr_1_2?s=officeproduct&ie=UTF8&qid=1348436482&sr=1-2
[21:41] <popey> in stock
[21:41] <popey> same as mine
[21:41] <popey> I had to do magenta, cyan and yellow
[21:41] <Azelphur> cool
[21:42] <popey> you get a bit of paper in the pack which has diagrams of every single printer cartidge
[21:42] <Azelphur> not much cheaper than the cartridges though and I need to get it going, I got people waiting for me to ship stuff, and I can't print the shipping labels xD
[21:42] <popey> with little arrows telling you where to inject, and how
[21:42] <popey> it's actually really easy, and you know me, i hate doing manual stuff
[21:42] <popey> oh it is cheaper
[21:42] <Azelphur> yea
[21:42] <popey> i only used a tiny bit of ink
[21:42] <popey> like 3ml per colour
[21:42] <Azelphur> oh good point, you get multiple goes out of it
[21:42] <popey> yeah, loads
[21:42] <popey> anyway, thats what i did today :)
[21:43] <Azelphur> hehe :)
[21:43] <popey> and my printer didn't explode \o/
[21:43] <Azelphur> popey: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00VCoEupbsbLqM/Ink-Cartridge-22-28-57-817-for-HP-.jpg
[21:43] <Azelphur> reckon it will work with this though?
[21:43] <Azelphur> because it's 3 inks in one cartridge, might not be so simple *shrug*
[21:43] <popey> yeah, looks like mine
[21:44] <Azelphur> my printer takes HP Ink 22 and HP Ink 21 if that's in your manual
[21:44] <popey> whats the exact model number?
[21:44]  * popey looks
[21:44] <Azelphur> the printer itself is a HP Deskjet F4180
[21:45] <popey> odd, hp 21 and 22 not listed
[21:45] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/iydndc3vzb16dhe/2012-09-23%2022.44.49.jpg
[21:45] <popey> but 20, 26, 29 and loads of others are
[21:46] <Azelphur> It is quite an old printer, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work
[21:46] <popey> under those labels are holes
[21:46] <popey> you can peel them off safely
[21:46] <popey> they re-stick
[21:46] <Azelphur> suppose I'll peel a label off (nothing to loose xD)
[21:47] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jdLVwRGkOM
[21:47] <popey> refill hp 22 ^^
[21:47] <popey> "very easy to refill"
[21:47] <popey> :)
[21:48] <popey> i think the 21 and 22 are the starter ones you get with the printer
[21:48] <popey> low capacity
[21:48] <Azelphur> probably
[21:48] <Azelphur> also, this label is so not easy to get off xD
[21:49] <popey> yeah
[21:49] <popey> so your printer probably takes 20 and 26 or some other pair of numbers
[21:49] <popey> which are the retail ones you can actually buy
[21:50] <Azelphur> hmm, the color one has 5 fill ports o.O
[21:50] <popey> ok, its 57 and 58 yours takes
[21:50] <popey> yes, so does mine
[21:50] <popey> watch that video
[21:50] <popey> shows you
[21:50]  * Azelphur is watching
[21:50] <popey> right, 57 and 58 are listed on this thing
[21:51] <Azelphur> seems simple enough
[21:52] <Azelphur> will give it a go :)
[21:52] <popey> i even found a nice little box to keep them in
[21:52]  * popey is scanning in the leaflet
[21:52] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:53] <Azelphur> lol at £8.99 for next day shipping
[21:53] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/refill.jpg
[21:54] <popey> some supermarkets have a refill station
[21:54] <Azelphur> cool
[21:54] <popey> you walk in and pay a couple of quid and some nutter does it for you
[21:54] <popey> easy, no mess :)
[21:54] <Azelphur> nice, doubt I have anything like that here though, I live in middle-of-nowhereville
[21:54] <popey> no big supermarkets nearby? margate?
[21:54] <Azelphur> we've got a tesco metro
[21:54] <popey> ah
[21:55] <Azelphur> we have a computer shop, me and my brother jokingly call it the come back on friday shop
[21:55] <popey> tbh I used to think people who refilled printer cartidges were nut-jobs :)
[21:55] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:55] <Azelphur> there's only one guy who knows anything, and he works there on fridays, the rest of the people just tell you to come back on friday
[21:55] <Azelphur> xD
[21:56] <Azelphur> popey: btw, I already have ink all over my hands somehow
[21:57] <Azelphur> xD
[21:57] <popey> haha
[21:57] <Azelphur> ordered that refill kit anyway, hopefully will get me back up and running again
[21:58] <popey> cool
[21:58] <Azelphur> :)
[21:58] <popey> have you seen the continuous refill systems people make?
[21:58] <popey> now _they_ are for nutters
[21:58] <Azelphur> yea, I have haha
[21:58] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:36] <Danno_> is there an on screen keyboard on Lubuntu or do i need a 3rd party program for this?
[23:38] <popey> i dont think lubuntu has a specific one
[23:38] <popey> you could try onboard
[23:38] <popey> maliit is another
[23:38] <popey> and there's one I forget the name of.. one mo...
[23:39] <popey> florence!
[23:40] <Danno_> awesome, i was going a bit mad there. spent ages setting up my tablet only to discover i have no on-screen keyboard :-/
[23:40] <popey> :)
[23:40] <popey> have fun
[23:40]  * popey goes to bed