[00:01] <xnox> jasoncwarner_: hot is good, winter is around the corner.
[00:01] <xnox> jasoncwarner_: unless you are in australia... bad times =/
[00:01] <jasoncwarner_> xnox not this hot :/ something isn't quite right here.
[04:18] <ritz> robert_ancell, morning , how are you doing ? busy ?
[04:18] <ritz> robert_ancell, PAM messages overwrite LightDM's user field when using pkcs11 smartcard authentication
[04:19] <ritz> what do you think of a pop up, or notification for error messages ?
[04:19] <robert_ancell> ritz, bug #?
[04:19] <ritz> robert_ancell, private bug report
[04:19] <ritz> as yet
[04:19] <ritz> robert_ancell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter/+bug/968855
[04:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 968855 in unity-greeter "Errors and Comments from pam (here: pam-pkcs11) are written in user-names - and therefore unreadable (dup-of: 838555)" [Undecided,Triaged]
[04:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 838555 in ayatana-design "Unity Greeter - Support complex authentication requests" [High,Fix committed]
[04:20] <robert_ancell> ritz, oh, you mean unity-greeter
[04:20] <ritz> yes
[04:20] <robert_ancell> ritz, the issue is you can't really detect from PAM what sort of message it is.
[04:20] <ritz> hmmm
[04:21] <robert_ancell> ritz, is your issue the same as the screenshot in 968855?
[04:22] <ritz> yes
[04:22] <robert_ancell> ritz, and the issue is the text writes over the top of the username?
[04:22] <ritz> robert_ancell, yup
[04:23] <ritz> robert_ancell, I was thinking more along the lines of gdm/gnome-shell design . notifications for error messages/information/prompt
[04:23] <ritz> maybe not the right choice, with lightdm
[04:23] <robert_ancell> ritz, what version of u-g is this? If you run unity-greeter --test-mode and scroll to "long info prompt" it shows the text laid out correctly (quantal)
[04:24] <ritz> 12.04
[04:24] <robert_ancell> ritz, it's up to the greeter how it wants to display the PAM text, not LightDM
[04:24] <ritz> hmm, sweet
[04:24] <ritz> hmm bad
[04:24] <robert_ancell> ritz, ok, could just require some backporting then
[04:24] <ritz> robert_ancell, sweet, on this then
[04:24] <ritz> thanks :)
[04:24] <ritz> robert_ancell, I tend to like the way gdm notification works with gnome3
[04:25] <ritz> robert_ancell,  what is your view on the same ?
[04:25] <robert_ancell> ritz, I haven't tried the notification, I'll have a look. Note that Unity Greeter is designed by the design team, not me. I'm happy with handling failures more clearly using a dialog or similar as long as we can reliably detect that from PAM.
[04:27] <ritz> hmmm
[04:28] <ritz> robert_ancell, hmm, thanks. will check with them at UDS
[04:29] <ritz> robert_ancell++
[04:29] <robert_ancell>  ritz, Mika Meskanen is the person to talk to (mika)
[05:50] <didrocks> good morning
[06:00] <pitti> Good morning
[06:02] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[06:06] <pitti> salut didrocks, ça va?
[06:08] <didrocks> pitti: still coughing like mad :/ I think I'll see a doctor this afternoon
[06:08] <didrocks> pitti: yourself?
[06:08] <pitti> urgh, that lasts long
[06:09] <pitti> didrocks: we went visiting a friend in Marburg over the weekend; that was fun (and rather lots of drinking in the evening) and going to bed at 3:30 and so, so still a little dizzy :)
[06:10] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps now during the beta freeze you can take a day off and spend it in the tub and the bed?
[06:10] <didrocks> pitti: ah, nice weekend for you then! :)
[06:11] <didrocks> pitti: well, I already spend the weekend like that with no positive evolution
[06:11] <didrocks> pitti: so, the doctor option is taken for today :)
[06:11] <didrocks> don't really feel bad, just coughing a lot and so, feel tired
[06:16] <didrocks> pitti: I'm supposing you are working on the glib test timeouting issue on armhf? if so, can you please update to latest glib at the same time?
[06:23] <pitti> didrocks: I am, yes; but I'd rather get it to build first
[06:23] <pitti> didrocks: uh, another one?
[06:23] <pitti> didrocks: I was hoping to get the current -proposed version into quantal today, as it's the same version that we already have there
[06:24] <pitti> for a new upstream version I'd rather keep it in -proposed until after b2?
[06:24] <didrocks> pitti: ah, sure :)
[06:24] <didrocks> pitti: so that upload
[06:24] <didrocks> and then, staging 2.34.0 into -proposed
[06:25] <pitti> oh, the final already?
[06:25] <pitti> I'm not yet through my weekend/morning email, I suppose I need to do a final pygobject release as well
[06:26] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, this week is finale :)
[06:37] <pitti> didrocks: ok, git diff 2.33.14.. is safe
[06:37] <didrocks> pitti: sweet :)
[07:23] <seb128> hey desktopers!
[07:23] <didrocks> welcome back seb128 :)
[07:24] <seb128> hey didrocks, thanks
[07:51] <Laney> morning
[07:54] <didrocks> hey Laney, how are you?
[07:58]  * pitti hugs seb128, bienvenue!
[07:58] <Laney> good thanks didrocks!
[08:11] <sabdfl> hello all
[08:12] <Laney> hey
[08:12] <pitti> hey sabdfl, how are you?
[08:13] <sabdfl> well thanks! had a good week of turkish sunshine
[08:13] <didrocks> hey sabdfl!
[08:13] <sabdfl> no hint of sham trials or #muslimrage!
[08:13] <sabdfl> it was lovely, kalkan bay. highly recommend it
[08:14] <sabdfl> pitti, great stuff on the rigour-and-quality front
[08:14] <xnox> =) sabdfl good. gotta love turkish pancakes with meat =)
[08:15] <sabdfl> yeah, the mezze was masterful
[08:15] <Laney> back to the glorious weather
[08:17] <xnox> the british summertime sadness? =)
[08:18] <Laney> makes me feel right at home :-)
[08:22]  * Laney eyes this cloud node
[08:22] <Laney> ./configure taking several minutes is suspicious
[09:08] <dpm> hey morning pitti. I just noticed that the Ubuntu One control panel appears untranslated, as it's not finding ubuntuone-control-panel.mo, which seems to have disappeared from the latest Quantal language packs. I've checked on Launchpad, and we haven't done any changes to the template: it should still be exported. Any ideas where it could have been left out, langpack-o-matic perhaps?
[09:10] <Laney> I saw a bug complaining that gnome-panel isn't translated any more too
[09:10] <Laney> bug #1055295
[09:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055295 in gnome-panel "Translation files are no longer installed in quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055295
[09:19] <didrocks> weird, gnome-panel is in universe for a long time already
[09:22] <Laney> it has X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes
[09:22] <Laney> does that do anything?
[09:24] <didrocks> not sure TBH
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, do you still get the issue with compiz freezing when the screensaver activates?
[09:32] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: didn't suspend/resume for a long time enough to see it, why?
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i don't know if it's just bad luck, or if something changed last week, but it now does it consistently, every single time my screensaver activates for me :(
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> it did it every time i left my laptop over the weekend, and just now when i went to grab some coffee
[09:33] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it wasn't on screensaver activation for me, but rather on suspend/resume (never got it when the screensaver activated)
[09:33] <didrocks> tjaalton: thoughts? ^
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, ah, it's definitely screensaver activation for me
[09:34] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: tjaalton thinks it's an issue with mesa
[09:34] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and not really fixable in time though :/
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> i get these warnings in my Xorg.0.log when it happens too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1224153/
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> i hope it's fixable. quantal is basically unusable for me right now ;)
[09:34] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: try a mainline kernel (3.6rc)
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> tjaalton, is there somewhere to install those from?
[09:35] <tjaalton> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:35] <tjaalton> there are people reporting success with it..
[09:35] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: while you are around, any news about the chat button and the dismiss of quick filtering?
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> not yet ;)
[09:36] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: for the chat, can't we really deactivate them?
[09:36] <tjaalton> asked mdeslaur to test as well, would be nice to bisect it on a separate bug and not on the monster that got slashdotted..
[09:36] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm afraid we will release quantal with it :/
[09:44] <pitti> dpm: sorry, missed your ping
[09:44] <pitti> dpm: I'm not sure actually; is it in the exported tarballs still?
[09:45] <pitti> dpm: I don't see any trace of it in quantal.log
[09:47]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[09:47] <seb128> thanks
[09:47] <seb128> (sorry I was "off-site" with my old laptop, just catching back on my main computer backlog)
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> seb128, you're back!! (hi btw)
[09:47] <pitti> dpm: checking current export
[09:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[09:48] <seb128> Laney, gnome-panel uses langpacks
[09:48] <seb128> Laney, that X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack is for universe packages to have them langpacked
[09:48] <Laney> I thought it might be, ta
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128, how was your vacation?
[09:50] <seb128> Laney, yw
[09:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, quite good, relaxing
[09:50] <seb128> I'm glad I missed the beta2 crazyness :p
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:51] <Laney> yeah, it was quite crazy ...
[09:51] <seb128> I managed not use the computer for most of the holidays, not for work stuff at least ;-)
[09:52] <pitti> dpm: hm, it is in the latest export again, but that's not the tarball I used (I used the 0830 export and manually merged the latest delta)
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> that's what i need to do the next time i take some vacation :)
[09:52] <pitti> dpm: so I can only assume that it'll be back in the next build
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> (i should take vacation when there isn't a firefox release)
[09:52] <pitti> dpm: hm, it even is in my merged tarball
[09:53] <didrocks> pitti: are you taking care of latest glib now that you fixed the FTBFS or do you want me to?
[09:53] <pitti> didrocks: I can (and it's already in the Debian svn)
[09:53] <didrocks> great :)
[09:53] <didrocks> thanks pitti
[09:53] <pitti> but I really want to get this version into quantal without bothering the release team too much
[09:53] <seb128> pitti, robert_ancell did the update apparently (from my bug emails)
[09:53] <pitti> didrocks: but it still failed
[09:53] <seb128> he just hit a failing test
[09:53] <didrocks> pitti: urgh?
[09:54] <pitti> didrocks: I don't know what changed a week or two ago at our arm builders
[09:54] <pitti> anyway, I retried the builds
[09:54] <Laney> failed with a test failure still?
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: I discussed that with him last week, we eventually just synced it back
[09:54] <pitti> it doesn't happen on all the other arches nor the Debian arm builders
[09:54] <didrocks> seb128: speaking of 2.34.0 after the FTBFS fix :)
[09:55] <pitti> i also committed my changes to Debian
[09:55] <pitti> we can sync back if/when we sync pcre3 from Debian
[09:55] <dpm> pitti, thanks. Weird. I noticed it when I saw the .mo file wasn't in any of the langpacks I've got installed (ca, de, pt_BR, zh_CN)
[10:03] <dupondje> gtk+ is build on quantal with --enable-debug? :)
[10:08] <Laney> seb128: hum, I don't see that gnome-panel ever got picked up by the langpacks
[10:09] <Laney> at least it doesn't appear in language-pack-gnome-de-base since the change
[10:09] <seb128> Laney, you need dpm or pitti about that, could be a bug in the universe langpack feature
[10:09] <seb128> not sure it got lot of testing
[10:09] <dpm> Laney, seb128, indeed it is.
[10:10] <dpm> so it seems that translations from universe are imported and exported fine from LP
[10:10] <dpm> but LP fails to list them in a text file that langpack-o-matic processes
[10:11] <Laney> so a bug in launchpad?
[10:11] <dpm> so they are ignored. We knew that this affected banshee and we (pitti) worked around it in langpack-o-matic by hardcoding banshee
[10:11] <dpm> but we didn't know other packages were affected
[10:11] <dpm> it's a bug in Launchpad
[10:12] <Laney> filed anywhere?
[10:12] <dpm> I contacted a LP dev last week about it, but he's busy with something else, need to ping someone else
[10:12] <Laney> let me grep to see if any other universe packages use this
[10:12] <dpm> Laney, yes,  bug 1048556
[10:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1048556 in ubuntu-translations "Language pack translations export needs to add universe packages to domain map" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048556
[10:13] <Laney> cheers
[10:13] <seb128> Laney, do you know what's the status with webkit?
[10:13] <Laney> building
[10:14] <Laney> we'll find out if doko's suggestion works when it gets to the end and tries to link
[10:14] <seb128> Laney, I was rather meaning ... staying on 1.9.2, going for 1.10, rolling back to 1.8
[10:15] <Laney> ah
[10:15] <Laney> well I think security don't want us to have a development release
[10:15] <seb128> yeah, neither do I
[10:15] <Laney> but going backwards would be fairly horrible
[10:15] <seb128> I tried hard to get the new version to build before holidays
[10:15] <seb128> but without luck
[10:16] <Laney> well, as said in the bug I got it to build
[10:16] <seb128> do you know if upstream did the change they said they would do?
[10:16] <Laney> with a patch to make and removing -g (debugging)
[10:16] <Laney> couldn't find any evidence of that... you mean splitting the lib?
[10:16] <Laney> (didn't try a new upstream release yet though)
[10:16] <seb128> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit/+bug/1005682/comments/6
[10:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1005682 in webkit "FFE: Update webkit to 1.9.91" [Wishlist,In progress]
[10:17] <Laney> oh don't know if I saw that
[10:17] <Laney> I've been working on bug #1043507
[10:17] <seb128> Laney, well, I had make-dfsg with that patch in the ppa yeah (though it was the new make version as well which I emailed -devel about and Steve? nacked because it should be done at the start of the cycle)
[10:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1043507 in webkit "webkit build fails on binutils limitation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043507
[10:20] <dpm> Laney, seb128, ok, re-poked LP developers for help with the universe translations bug
[10:20] <Laney> dpm: cheers
[10:20] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[10:20] <Laney> seb128: getting the source to see if that's in .92
[10:21] <seb128> Laney, ok
[10:21] <Laney> forward is almost certainly better than back here
[10:21] <seb128> Laney, https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKitGTK/1.10.x suggests it's not done
[10:22] <seb128> Laney, I guess we should build with -gstabs if that works
[10:22] <seb128> so we can update
[10:22] <Laney> well that also needs the make patch
[10:23] <seb128> right...
[10:23] <Laney> so ... depends if that will fly
[10:24] <seb128> did I say before that I hate webkit :p
[10:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I noticed that the "chat" icon is still there in tb 15 ... didn't you say it was only on by default in unstable series?
[10:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do we plan to drop it for quantal?
[10:31] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, and thanks for helping fix bug 1018621 the other day. It struck me that this may be an SRU candidate for precise. Not that I think that a lot of people have removed their ~/.profile file, but for those who have, the bug may be pretty annoying. Do you think that's enough of a reason to SRU the fix?
[10:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1018621 in accountsservice ""Language for menus and windows" is not saved if .profile is missing" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018621
[10:36] <pitti> GunnarHj: certainly sounds fine to me, yes
[10:38] <GunnarHj> pitti: Great! Then can you please add a precise task while I upload the patch.
[10:40] <pitti> can you please add an SRU test case to the description?
[10:40] <pitti> task added
[10:41] <GunnarHj> pitti: Sure, I'll write something.
[10:43] <pitti> thanks!
[10:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i guess we need to approach mozilla about that. but i've been busy the last few days trying to stop things like bug 1051152 from coming up again :/
[10:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1051152 in globalmenu-extension "Firefox 16 beta crash in nsIContent::SetAttr with greasemonkey installed" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051152
[10:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
[10:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do we need mozilla's authorization to change that default?
[10:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
[10:52] <seb128> :-(
[10:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you talk to jasoncwarner_ about it?
[10:52] <chrisccoulson> not yet. i can do though
[10:52] <seb128> would be good, he should be the one deciding
[10:52] <seb128> but my gut feeling is that we already have an im client
[10:52] <seb128> and we don't want to duplicate the feature
[10:53] <jasoncwarner_> hey chrisccoulson seb128 what's up ?
[10:53] <seb128> what do you think?
[10:53] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, hey! how are you?
[10:53] <jasoncwarner_> hey seb128 how was the holiday?
[10:54] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, do we think we should keep or drop the "chat" feature from thunderbird? it's feature duplication, we already have a (better) im client
[10:54] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, excellent, it was good to get a break from work ;-)
[10:54]  * didrocks was confused about it the first time seeing it at guadec
[10:55] <didrocks> and I was connected without noticing and people were talking to me there (in thunderbird)
[10:56] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: re: chat...looking at it...hadn't seen it...one sec...(or rather, a few minutes)
[10:57] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, I'm away for lunch so no hurry
[10:57] <seb128> bbiab (having lunch at home so I will be back in like 15 minutes)
[11:01] <dpm> hi all, could someone have a look at bug 957589, Sweetshark perhaps?
[11:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 957589 in df-libreoffice "Language packs do not install LibreOffice help language packs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957589
[11:01] <jasoncwarner_> seb128 chrisccoulson just checked it out. is there any risk in leaving it in? does thunderbird autoconfigure it or anything?
[11:01] <jasoncwarner_> it definately is duplicate and we'd want to keep our own IM/chat program over thunderbirds for sure
[11:03] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: thunderbird doesn't autoconfigure it. But if you do configure it, you are connected to one of the IM thinking you are not (and missing messaging for instance)  :)
[11:04] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I do think that hiding the button and the menu to configure would be enough TBH
[11:05] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I'd like the option for people who actually *want* to use thunderbird chat to be able to (all 3 of them? j/k ;) )
[11:05] <jasoncwarner_> but, yeah, just hiding the icon by default would probably be enough
[11:05] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: and some nuts with your ice-creamed+chocolate topping? :)
[11:05] <didrocks> cream*
[11:07] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: did you try the mainline kernel already?
[11:07] <jasoncwarner_> omg...my freakin' laptop is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hot. ever since I reinstalled it (yesterday), it keeps overheating. the fans don't spin up ever either...very weird
[11:08] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I'm sure it's just an excuse for more ice-cream to cool it :)
[11:08] <tkamppeter> didrocks, seb128, chrisccoulson, who is responsible for GTK2 in Ubuntu?
[11:08] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I wish it was that simple!
[11:09] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: with it up to date, don't experiment that on the x220
[11:09] <didrocks> I*
[11:09] <didrocks> tkamppeter: us? :)
[11:09] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: this is an x220 as well.. I didn't yesterday before I reinstalled either! today, after finishing the reinstall, freakin' blazing keyboard.
[11:10] <tkamppeter> didrocks, bug 1053891 needs also to be fixed in GTK2, as Firefox and Thunderbird still use GTK2.
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053891 in gtk+2.0 "GTK print dialog does not allow printing and does not show options of a remote DNS-SD/Bonjour printer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053891
[11:10] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: waow, I'll try to use a live this week to see if I can reproduce
[11:10] <didrocks> tkamppeter: does your patch just applies to it?
[11:10] <didrocks> apply*
[11:10] <tkamppeter> didrocks, I did not try yet.
[11:11] <didrocks> tkamppeter: can you please try? then ping us and we'll sponsor it :)
[11:11] <didrocks> thanks!
[11:11] <didrocks> tkamppeter: no need to target beta2 though, it will be in a post-beta update
[11:11] <didrocks> too late for it :)
[11:12] <didrocks> (assigned and fixed milestone)
[11:12] <tkamppeter> didrocks, OK.
[11:20] <tkamppeter> didrocks, the patch applies, I am testing now whether it actually works.
[11:20] <didrocks> tkamppeter: thanks! keep us in touch :)
[11:36] <seb128> tkamppeter, what didrocks said
[11:36] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, chrisccoulson says we need to ask mozilla to hide the icon ... should we do that?
[11:38] <tkamppeter> didrocks, seb128, patch is working, will post the debdiff ...
[11:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, help
[11:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, unping, tb fails to start but it seems to be an eds partial upgrade issue, trying to update those
[11:40] <seb128> ok, better after updating e-s-d
[11:42] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson, tjaalton: so, I didn't get a single black screen issue this weekend. On friday I changed "Turn screen off when inactive for" to "never"...so it may be related to dpms after all
[11:42] <tkamppeter> didrocks, seb128, debdiff ready to apply attached to bug 1053891.
[11:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053891 in gtk+2.0 "GTK print dialog does not allow printing and does not show options of a remote DNS-SD/Bonjour printer" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053891
[11:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[11:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, another eds pain ;)
[11:43] <chrisccoulson> tjaalton, i'm running the mainline kernel, but my machine hasn't been idle for long enough for the screensaver to come on yet
[11:44] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: is it the only machine you have?_)
[11:44] <chrisccoulson> tjaalton, it's the only machine i have running quantal ;)
[11:44] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: ok, have you tried the rc kernel yet?
[11:44] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: yeah, ok
[11:45] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: not yet, no
[11:48] <didrocks> seb128: I'm looking at the gtk2 patch
[11:48] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: what laptop is it btw?
[11:48] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: I'm tempted to undupe your bug and follow up there..
[11:48] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[11:48] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: fine with me
[11:49] <didrocks> also packaging 2.24.13 is working fine :)
[11:51] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: done. chrisccoulson, you can follow bug 1054198 as well
[11:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054198 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Thinkpad T510 doesn't come out of screensaver" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054198
[11:54] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: also, you can set the blank timer to 1 minute, that should make it faster to reproduce or verify it doesn't happen anymore
[12:07] <smspillaz> Mirv: sil2100: do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1041169 is fixed ?
[12:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1041169 in compiz "custom keyboard shortcuts not migrated after upgrade to compiz 1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu2 " [Low,Confirmed]
[12:08] <smspillaz> didrocks: have you got the PS bug priority list handy ? is it just unity-distro-priority ?
[12:09] <didrocks> smspillaz: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[12:09] <smspillaz> cheers
[12:11] <smspillaz> didrocks: was this one 1041535compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in __strcasestr_ia32() from ccsStringToModifiers(binding=NULL) and pitti's bug the only ones for gsettings ?
[12:11]  * smspillaz grepped for compiz and gsettings and only found those two
[12:12] <didrocks> smspillaz: what do you mean with pitti's bug?
[12:13]  * didrocks sees way more compiz bugs on #dx
[12:13] <smspillaz> didrocks: #1042041 1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values
[12:13] <smspillaz> right now I'm just handling all of the gsettings distro bugs
[12:14] <smspillaz> at the moment I'm working off of this list which is lacking: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bugs?field.tag=gsettings
[12:14] <smspillaz> erm https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bugs?field.tag=gsettings
[12:14] <didrocks> smspillaz: the one I pointed to you the other day was bug #1041169
[12:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1041169 in compiz "custom keyboard shortcuts not migrated after upgrade to compiz 1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu2 " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041169
[12:14] <didrocks> which is on this list
[12:15] <smspillaz> okay, I've just checked with Mirv above to see if that was a problem with the migration script
[12:15] <didrocks> smspillaz: for bug #1041169?
[12:15] <didrocks> it's not, it's duplicated keys in the schemas
[12:15] <smspillaz> okay
[12:15] <smspillaz> thanks :)
[12:15] <didrocks> yw
[12:16] <didrocks> it's the one I took the time to explain and put the schemas name on irc last week
[12:16] <Sweetshark> Running libreoffice intregation tests on quantal in nonheadless mode in a VirtualBox is ... interesting to watch.
[12:17] <smspillaz> didrocks: have you got the scrollback handy ?
[12:17] <didrocks> smspillaz: no, and no time to look at it right now
[12:17] <smspillaz> didrocks: okay. Was it this one ?
[12:17] <smspillaz> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050796
[12:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1050796 in compiz "Double shortcuts conflict with gnome-control-center ones" [High,Triaged]
[12:17] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: unfortunately, I rebooted on 3.6r7, and closing my laptop lid triggered the issue. I updated the bug with a stack trace.
[12:17] <didrocks> smspillaz: yep, this one
[12:17] <smspillaz> okay, and this causes the migration failure ?
[12:18] <Sweetshark> LibreOffice is handling it so far, but unity (dash for example) seems to be mightily confused by the number of windows popping up and closing down ....
[12:18] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: bah :/
[12:18] <didrocks> it does for keys that are duplicated
[12:18] <didrocks> like launch a terminal
[12:18] <smspillaz> okay, thanks
[12:18] <smspillaz> tracking that.
[12:18] <didrocks> thanks
[12:18] <smspillaz> np
[12:18] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: thanks for testing though
[12:18] <smspillaz> didrocks: you're lucky btw, it was the last thing in my scrollback :P
[12:18] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: I'll wait and see if the screensaver coming up with inactivity does it too
[12:18] <smspillaz> if one more person had joined or quit I would have lost it
[12:19] <didrocks> smspillaz: heh :)
[12:19] <didrocks> smspillaz: you should log or copy and paste what's important :p
[12:19] <smspillaz> yeah
[12:21] <smspillaz> didrocks: Mirv: sil2100: if you run into problems with the gsettings backend just tag the related bugs with "gsettings" and add a task for "compiz"
[12:21] <didrocks> smspillaz: ok, will do
[12:21] <smspillaz> cheers
[12:23] <didrocks> gtk2 ok -> uploaded with tkamppeter's patch and new release
[12:40] <Mirv> smspillaz: ok
[13:15] <QuantumQrack> Anybody have any recommendations for ubuntu 64 bit vs. 32 bit running from flash drive so I can try it out?  tried 64, it didnt load up properly.
[13:17] <jbicha> QuantumQrack: please ask your support questions in #ubuntu or if it's for Quantal, ask in #ubuntu+1
[13:21] <Sweetshark> which package contains the debug symbols for libgio? gvfs-dbg?
[13:23] <seb128> Sweetshark, libglib2.0-0-dbg
[13:23] <seb128> dbgsym rather
[13:23] <Ursinha> anyone else having problems with unity not coming back whenever the screen stays off for some time? I'm using metacity --replace to be able to get to my open windows again
[13:23] <Ursinha> I'm using 6.6.0-0ubuntu1, the latest version available, I guess?
[13:24] <jbicha> seb128: welcome back!
[13:25] <seb128> jbicha, hey, thanks!
[13:25] <Sweetshark> seb128: ah ok, installed that too already, just to be safe ...
[13:26] <Ursinha> seb128, hi :) is signon-ui a package we should be monitoring?
[13:26] <seb128> Ursinha, yes
[13:26] <Ursinha> (and welcome back :))
[13:26] <seb128> Ursinha, hey (thanks) ;-)
[13:27] <seb128> Ursinha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~webapps/+packagebugs
[13:27] <seb128> Ursinha, the packages on that page we should be monitoring
[13:27] <Ursinha> seb128, hmm, right
[13:27] <Ursinha> thanks for that
[13:27] <Ursinha> will add now
[13:27] <seb128> yw, thanks for asking about those ;-)
[13:32] <jbicha> GunnarHj: hey, I don't know if you saw my email, but I'd prefer if you moved your guest session customization forum post to say help.ubuntu.com/community or askubuntu.com
[13:37] <jbicha> huh, I wonder when gcompris got added to the -desktop set
[13:41] <ogra_> jbicha, are you sure youre not looking at edubuntu seeds ?
[13:41] <ogra_> :)
[13:41] <jbicha> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/ubuntu-desktop
[13:42] <jbicha> it was in universe for precise
[13:42] <ogra_> well, ask stgraber :)
[13:42] <ogra_> it used to be in main until edubuntu switched to build from universe (not so long ago)
[13:43] <ogra_> but it definitely shouldnt be in the ubuntu-desktop set by default
[13:44] <stgraber> hmm, more a question for cjwatson actually ;)
[13:45] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Hi Jeremy! No, I saw no email from you (possible Thunderbird problem), but sure, I can copy it to help.ubuntu.com/community. That's what http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1949027 recommends anyway. I'll let you know when it's done.
[13:46] <jbicha> GunnarHj: ah, I tried CCing you on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-September/016863.html but maybe I had an old email address for you
[13:47] <jbicha> hard docs string freeze is tomorrow so I'll need at least the new link soon
[13:57] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Hmm.. I subscribe to ubuntu-docs, so I should have received it in that capacity. In any case I appreciate that you posted that to the mailing list (I had the same thought). Will try to create the community page later today, and let you know the new URL.
[14:34] <charles> mterry: ping
[14:35] <mterry> charles, yo
[14:37] <charles> mterry: could you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/1053670
[14:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053670 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [High,Confirmed]
[14:39] <seb128> charles, hey, why is that bouncing back to our team?
[14:39] <seb128> charles, don't you guys have a dbusmenu maintainer in #ps?
[14:40] <seb128> mterry, hey, how are you? you guys had a crazy time while I was not there I can see ;-)
[14:40] <mterry> seb128, yes  :)
[14:41] <seb128> mterry, crazyness is over and not quite yet?
[14:41] <seb128> e.g should I hide for an extra few days :p
[14:41] <charles> seb128: yes, if mterry doesn't have time for it I'll look into it
[14:41] <Laney> there will be another hit if I accept this ubuntu-meta upload ...
[14:41] <mterry> seb128, still hasn't formally landed (I pushed ubuntu-meta, but not accepted)
[14:42] <seb128> Laney, hit of work of of online discussions?
[14:42] <charles> seb128: but it looks like it was mterry's patch, so I was trying to be nice :)
[14:42] <Laney> well, mainly the latter
[14:42] <kenvandine> Laney, that is a feature that is expected in b2 :/
[14:42] <mterry> Laney, online discussions
[14:42] <Laney> but some of the former too (not for us though)
[14:42] <seb128> charles, oh ok, if mterry broke it he can probably fix it ;-)
[14:42] <mterry> :-/
[14:42] <mterry> :)  Will look
[14:42] <seb128> Laney, I would rather try to not play against the stream there
[14:43] <seb128> Laney, it feels like it will just increase the number of discussions and make things land later rather than earlier
[14:43] <Laney> probably true
[14:43]  * mterry has to grab groceries, will be back online in a bit to look at that bug
[14:52] <GunnarHj> pitti: Other things came up, but now I have added a test case (sort of) to the description of bug 1018621, and I think it's ready for precise-proposed.
[14:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1018621 in accountsservice ""Language for menus and windows" is not saved if .profile is missing" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018621
[15:03] <pitti> hate hate hate our armel buildds
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, too slows?
[15:07] <desrt> interesting datapoint: my nexus 7 builds glib in 5 minutes
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, me too ;)
[15:09] <seb128> desrt, that build doesn't include running the testsuite I can tell you :p
[15:09] <seb128> desrt, the testsuite takes much longer than the actual build here
[15:09] <desrt> seb128: how did you guess? :)
[15:09] <seb128> ;-)
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> i bet our webkit maintainer doesn't like armel buildd's too
[15:09] <pitti> seb128: I don't know what chagned last week, but all of a sudden the tests fail all over the place, especially the timing ones
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 ;)
[15:09] <pitti> it seems that the builds are very loaded or so
[15:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, stop looking at me, we have a new webkit maintainer, Laney! ;-)
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:10] <Laney> nah, doko took it off me :P
[15:10] <desrt> what's the story with armhf?
[15:10] <Laney> oh, for it to be far enough along to be having problems with arm
[15:11] <Laney> pitti: I think something did change, doko keeps complaining about qt4-x11 newly failing
[15:12]  * ogra_ is happy that armel will be gone the day after release 
[15:12] <Laney> it will?!
[15:12] <ogra_> i wish we had killed it months ago
[15:12] <seb128> Laney, armfh for the win I guess ;-)
[15:12] <ogra_> yeah
[15:12] <Laney> indeed
[15:12] <desrt> armfh is the big-endian armhf? :)
[15:12] <Laney> I just didn't know any decision had been made
[15:12]  * Laney tweets the official annoucement ;-)
[15:12] <ogra_> desrt, big endian is armeb
[15:13] <desrt> ogra_: seb made a typo.  i made a joke.
[15:13] <ogra_> k :)
[15:13] <seb128> :-p
[15:13] <seb128> I need to work on my fingers synchro, fh hf ... it's hard :p
[15:13] <pitti> well, armhf keeps failing as well
[15:14] <ogra_> i even missed that typo
[15:14] <desrt> we have armhf builders?
[15:14] <Laney> yeah
[15:14] <ogra_> pitti, same way ?
[15:14] <desrt> huh.
[15:14] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/builders
[15:14] <desrt> do we have a precise armhf?
[15:14] <ogra_> yes
[15:14] <pitti> ogra_: not always in the same test, of course
[15:14] <desrt> crikey
[15:14] <didrocks> desrt: come on! you are soooo disconnected!
[15:14] <ogra_> armhf is default since quite a while
[15:14]  * pitti looks what failed this time
[15:14] <desrt> i assume a tegra3 can handle hf...
[15:14] <pitti> I keep bumping the timeouts (doing 1 second of work in 2 seconds), and promptly it takes even longer
[15:14] <ogra_> armel was dead beef in precise already
[15:15]  * desrt wonders why he is running debian armel like a sucker
[15:15] <ogra_> because you like it slow ?
[15:15] <ogra_> or because your HW doesnt have proper floating point support ?
[15:15] <ogra_> (or because its not armv7)
[15:16] <desrt> it's a tegra3
[15:16] <ogra_> if the answer to all three is no, you should consider switching ;)
[15:16] <ogra_> LOL
[15:16] <ogra_> yeah, use hf
[15:17] <desrt> i assume the android kernel will be happy with tat?
[15:17] <desrt> *that
[15:17] <ogra_> kernels dont care
[15:17] <desrt> they definitely do
[15:17] <ogra_> not about floating point in userspace, no
[15:17] <desrt> the kernel needs to be aware of the FP registers in order to do proper context switches
[15:17] <desrt> otherwise one process ends up with the registers of another
[15:18] <ogra_> i dont think the kernel does anything with FP registers
[15:18] <desrt> it kinda has to...
[15:18] <ogra_> and i have run hf userspace 100 times on top of el kernels
[15:18] <desrt> when you do a process context switch, you need to store the registers of the process in some kernel data structure somewhere
[15:18] <desrt> and restore them when you come back
[15:19] <ogra_> (and the other way round)
[15:19] <ogra_> all that counts is libc
[15:19] <ogra_> (and everythin linked against it)
[15:19] <desrt> maybe you got lucky? :)
[15:21]  * desrt notes that values would not be stored in FP registers for long periods of time, so unless there is active heavy floating point crunching going on by two separate processes at the same time (on a single core) then changes of register thrashing are lowered
[15:22] <ogra_> desrt, well, i guarantee yu that you can run hf userspace on el kernels and the other way round
[15:22] <ogra_> if you find any issue you can prove being related to that all your beer at UDS is on me
[15:22] <desrt> ogra_: then surely the -el kernels must be aware of the FP registers...
[15:38] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i need to go clothes shopping before UDS :/
[15:38] <chrisccoulson> i hate spending money on clothes!
[15:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do more conf and collect geek tshirts :p
[15:38] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> i've got plenty of t-shirts. the problem is, i can almost fit 2 people inside them now ;)
[15:40] <Laney> hot wash ;-)
[15:42] <jbicha> http://blogs.gnome.org/diegoe/2012/09/23/webkitgtk-failing-to-build-argument-list-too-long/
[15:43] <Laney> yeah
[15:43] <seb128> jbicha, we have that patch in the ubuntu-desktop ppa for ~1month
[15:43] <seb128> jbicha, nothing really new in the blog post though :-(
[15:43] <seb128> it's only part of the build issues
[15:44] <jbicha> I thought the comment that the make patch was rejected was interesting
[15:44] <seb128> yeah, we new the patch was not upstream...
[15:45] <seb128> I wonder what other distros do
[15:45] <Laney> I hope that patch to split the library up gets merged upstream
[15:45] <Laney> fixed and merged, my earlier investigations revealed that it was reverted
[15:46] <jbicha> I'm sure Fedora just applied the patch; mageia was having problems though last I heard
[15:46] <Laney> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94435 this one
[15:47] <ubot2> bugs.webkit.org bug 94435 in WebKit Gtk "[GTK] Split WebCore/platform into a separate library" [Normal,Reopened]
[15:47] <Laney> clever bot
[15:47] <Laney> "rolled out" means reverted
[15:50] <Laney> seeds accepted
[15:51]  * Laney waves to /.
[15:54]  * micahg wonders why he has a 44M file in /etc/X11
[15:56] <chrisccoulson> splitting the library up? surely a better way of fixing it would be to fix the build system?
[15:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how so?
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> firefox avoids the "argument list too long" by using a linker script rather than passing objects on the command line
[15:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, they just have a number of sources that goes over the arguments limit it seems?
[15:57] <seb128> oh, I guess that works too ;-)
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, they replaced building of intermediate archives (*.a files) with a descriptor file (which just contains a list of objects), and they use these descriptor files to build a linker script
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> pretty much
[16:56] <didrocks> have a good evening everyone
[16:59] <desrt> ouch.
[16:59]  * desrt feels massive amounts of dist-upgrade pain
[17:16]  * desrt gives up, reinstalls
[17:28] <desrt> sob
[17:28] <desrt> today was appatently a bad day for a reinstall
[17:31] <ogra_> desrt, cant be, we are in a freeze :P
[17:31] <ogra_> nobody uploads during freezes, right ?
[17:32] <desrt> today is a very bad day
[17:32] <desrt> i want to throw everything out the window at this point
[17:32] <ogra_> oh man
[17:33] <desrt> i think my blue 'thinkvantage' button is broken
[17:33] <desrt> so i can't get the bootmenu up
[17:33] <desrt> and now i'm stuck with the result of the installer messing up half way through...
[17:35] <ogra_> well, you can get back into your live image, no ?
[17:35] <ogra_> just fix grub from there
[17:35] <desrt> having trouble with that on account of my inability to get the boot device menu up
[17:36] <ogra_> oh, you talk about bios level
[17:37] <desrt> got it
[17:38] <desrt> lets see if the installer crashes again
[17:39] <desrt> hmm.  this os-prober thing is hanging
[17:41] <desrt> hah.  killing it from the console unsticks the intaller
[17:46] <chrisccoulson> bah @ bug 1055615
[17:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055615 in thunderbird "crashreporter crashed with SIGSEGV in get_fast_child_requisition()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055615
[17:46] <chrisccoulson> overlay scrollbars crash our crash reporter!
[17:47] <desrt> huh.  the osprober is getting stuck tryng to read from /dev/sdb1... which is the usb device that i am installing from.  odd.
[17:52] <desrt> huh...
[17:52] <desrt> quantal makes me want to install adblock
[17:53] <desrt> i just love how i see dollar signs every time i open the dash
[17:54] <seb128> desrt, stop the trolling :p
[17:54] <desrt> seb128: seriously...
[17:54] <desrt> and amazon icon in the launcher?
[17:55] <seb128> desrt, it's a one line in one of the dash pages (ok the default one), it's easy to ignore, and it doesn't have ads, just stuff matching your searches
[17:55] <seb128> desrt, and disabling it is an apt-get away (will be soon some ui clicks away)
[17:56] <tkamppeter> pitti, still there?
[17:56] <Sweetsha1k> desrt: just search your local ogg-files for tracks by the sex pistols or by pussy riot and type slowly ...
[17:57] <desrt> Sweetsha1k: i don't have to try that to have an idea about what will happen...
[17:58] <jbicha> seb128: "soon some ui clicks away" as in 13.04?
[17:59] <seb128> jbicha, I don't know, I'm just back from holidays but the original plan had a way to opt out, I don't think they let that out to force users
[17:59] <seb128> jbicha, not sure if they will try a ffe,uife,stringfe or wait next cycle though
[17:59] <seb128> jbicha, "ui" would probably be a filter in the dash, so not a big ui change
[18:00] <jbicha> I already wrote a page in docs with the current way to disable: uninstall the shopping lens
[18:00] <desrt> s/the dhopping lens/unity/ works as well :-)
[18:01] <jbicha> of course if you're going to remove unity, you might as well just use the gnome remix
[18:02] <seb128> I think the trolling is something I didn't miss during my holidays :p
[18:02] <desrt> i would have done that but for the lack of dailies
[18:02] <seb128> anyway, dinner time
[18:02] <seb128> bbiab
[18:04] <jbicha> well Alpha2 is only a week and a half old but there have been a bunch of GNOME updates since then
[18:08] <desrt> jbicha: what are you doing about nautilus?
[18:08] <jbicha> referring people to the GNOME3 PPA
[18:09] <jbicha> seb128: what do you think about having Nautilus 3.6 in quantal-backports?
[18:48] <seb128> some days I hate linux
[18:49] <seb128> wth do I need to restart xorg after coming back from diner to have something displayed on screen
[18:49] <seb128> I don't even have a screensaver
[18:51] <jbicha> seb128: did you see my question about what you think of nautilus 3.6 going into quantal-backports?
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i bet you have bug 1054198 too ;)
[18:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054198 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Thinkpad T510 doesn't come out of screensaver" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054198
[18:51] <seb128> jbicha, no, I didn't, I came back from diner with a "nothing on screen and no refresh"
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> (seeing as you have similar hardware to me)
[18:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't use a screensaver though
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, does your display get turned off?
[18:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's why then
[18:53] <seb128> jbicha, I think backport should be use for apps and not for system components like the filemanager
[18:53] <jbicha> nautilus is an app too :)
[18:53] <seb128> jbicha, but I don't believe strongly about it and I don't think lot of people use backports, I think ppas are a better solution than backports ...e.g don't take my opinion too much in consideration
[18:54] <micahg> seb128: backports are enabled by default and show up in software center
[18:54] <seb128> micahg, and?
[18:54] <micahg> it makes it easier to find for those who want it :)
[18:54] <seb128> that doesn't change the fact that I don't like them, they are a poor solution
[18:55] <larsu> seb128, we have a potential fix for that dbusmenu crash. Can you pull the commit when into the package I merge it into trunk?
[18:55] <seb128> but if they are listed in s-c I would recommend against putting nautilus there
[18:55] <larsu> seb128, I don't know if this really fixes the problem, as I can't reproduce it...
[18:55] <seb128> you don't want to recommend broken upgrades in s-c
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> our whole model for distributing apps sucks :(
[18:55] <micahg> jbicha: you'd also need to test about 2 dozen reverse dependencies for potential breakage
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> why can't i install gimp 2.8 from the S-C in precise?
[18:56] <micahg> chrisccoulson: because we haven't finished unbreaking the reverse dependencies yet :)
[18:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that's an issue being worked, hopefully it will be sorted by the next lts
[18:56] <seb128> larsu, sure can do
[18:57] <seb128> larsu, you are confident the commit is technically right even if it might not fix that particular bug right?
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> micahg, point proven ;)
[18:57] <larsu> seb128, yeah, I've tried it locally and charles reviewed it
[18:57] <larsu> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/dbusmenu/lp1053670/+merge/126047
[18:57] <seb128> larsu, danke
[18:58] <larsu> seb128, it's r427
[18:58] <micahg> chrisccoulson: it would be the same issue if you installed the upstream version unless it was self-contained
[18:58] <seb128> jbicha, so yeah, I'm unsure we should promote in s-c an update which breaks unity integration
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> micahg, yes, which is exactly my point. the current distribution model sucks, and doesn't scale in the real world
[18:59] <jbicha> seb128: it requires explicit action to install a backport, but I guess backports wouldn't help much anyway
[18:59] <jbicha> for one, I'd have to bug the backports team for updates
[18:59] <seb128> jbicha, according to micahg they are listed in s-c and enabled by default?
[18:59] <jbicha> if somebody pokes around software-center to see it, then yes it would be shown as an option
[18:59] <micahg> chrisccoulson: this isn't about the distribution model, you have the issue with shared components, if it were a standalone leaf app, it would've been uploaded already (as we have done many updates in precise-backport)
[18:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, having a public api makes things harder as you know :p
[18:59] <micahg> *precise-backports
[19:00] <seb128> but backport is a poor solution and doesn't scale anyway
[19:00] <seb128> we should move away from it
[19:00] <micahg> seb128: enabled, but pinned lower, so you have to select it
[19:00] <seb128> we should let upstream maintain their software
[19:01] <seb128> 95% of our softwares are unmaintained and in a crappy state
[19:01] <seb128> everybody would be in a better position if we focussed on the OS and let the apps to the app writers
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i agree
[19:02] <seb128> kill universe, let upstream maintain their app in extras or something
[19:02] <micahg> it's much lower than that I think, I'm quite amazed when I need a tool and it's an apt-get away
[19:02] <seb128> speaking as somebody who often update desktop stuff because we are 6 month behind upstream and ship a buggy version and I feel bad about it, our model sucks
[19:03] <seb128> look at the pidgin, inkscape, gimp, etc
[19:03] <seb128> we don't "maintain" them
[19:03] <seb128> nobody look at their bugs nor is engaged with upstream
[19:03] <seb128> we try to keep up with Debian or we rely on people who don't care much to feel that we suck enough that they have to do an update
[19:04] <micahg> seb128: those are all in main, so we are claiming to maintain them
[19:05] <seb128> "maintain"
[19:05] <micahg> "support"
[19:05] <seb128> well, we do security updates
[19:05] <seb128> it doesn't mean we do a good job about picking versions
[19:06] <seb128> or engaging with upstream
[19:06] <jbicha> I'm not convinced that upstream can necessarily do a better job of maintaing these packages
[19:06] <seb128> or engaging with users
[19:06] <seb128> right, most don't
[19:06] <seb128> but at least the blame is in the hands of the right persons :p
[19:06] <BigWhale> Is this an open discussion? If it is... how is Debian keeping up? Do they have the man power to keep all those packages up to date?
[19:07] <seb128> they don't
[19:07] <seb128> you have thousand of outdated or not well maintained softwares in Debian as well
[19:07] <jbicha> it's an open rant ;)
[19:07] <seb128> look at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html and how much is > yellow
[19:07] <micahg> BigWhale: Debian also has ~1000 DDs, we have ~200 Ubuntu devs
[19:08] <seb128> it gives you an idea on how much is outdated on our default install
[19:08] <BigWhale> How are other distros handling this? Fedora?
[19:08] <seb128> you can imagine universe is another order of magnitude
[19:08] <seb128> they don't handle it better
[19:08] <seb128> I don't say that the model is useless
[19:08] <seb128> but it has its limits
[19:08] <seb128> it doesn't scale
[19:09] <BigWhale> I agree that having a bazillion outdated packages isn't really good.
[19:09] <seb128> no distro keep up with the opensource ecosystem and we are speaking of an ecosystem a magnitude less active than the markets of phone app providers
[19:09] <jbicha> having each upstream learn each distro's packaging system scales worse though
[19:10] <micahg> right
[19:10] <seb128> that's why we need to make packaging easier
[19:10] <seb128> or automated
[19:10] <seb128> the only decision should be "what version do I ship" and "what patches to I include"
[19:11] <BigWhale> seb128, I agree I ranted about Debian/Ubuntu packaging before.
[19:11] <seb128> jbicha, there are not so many packaging system, there is deb and rpm basically
[19:11] <seb128> which is the same than distribution for e.g android and iOS
[19:11] <seb128> distributing
[19:12] <seb128> which most app developers do
[19:12] <micahg> I cringe every time I install a deb that doesn't come from our archive
[19:13] <seb128> not to mention that our distribution cycle, freeze, hard rules for SRUs, etc are made for an OS
[19:13] <seb128> they are focussed on avoiding issues in the system
[19:13] <seb128> there is no reason apps need to be on the same cadence and strict rules
[19:13] <seb128> micahg, that's because we don't have good sandboxing (yet)
[19:16] <BigWhale> Having universe is a big benefit even if the software in it is a little outdated.
[19:17] <BigWhale> (I always thought that import from debian is automatic)
[19:17] <seb128> right, but instead of an universe set on the ubuntu freezes you had a flexible appdev channel showing up in the s-c you would get the same benefits without the limitations
[19:17] <seb128> imports are automatic
[19:18] <seb128> but often there is work involved
[19:18] <seb128> dealing with platform changes
[19:18] <seb128> new compiler, new libs, etc
[19:18] <seb128> we should probably keep universe available
[19:19] <seb128> but if an upstream is wanting to maintain actively their software we should let them do that
[19:23] <BigWhale> seb128, what about quality and acceptance testing? Right now, are uploaders doing any of it?
[19:23] <seb128> not for random apps
[19:23] <seb128> the small Ubuntu team just can't assure the quality of all the softwares in the universe
[19:24] <micahg> well, MOTU is going to make more of an effort to look at RC level bugs before release
[19:25] <seb128> sure, that just can't scale, you probably know it
[19:25] <seb128> it takes a person full time to do a good job maintaining a source
[19:26] <BigWhale> some of the automated tests could be performed at least if the program is executed correctly
[19:27] <seb128> right, the appdev stuff plans to have sandboxing and automated packaging and testing
[19:27] <seb128> well that's the long distance goal
[19:28] <BigWhale> seb128, well, I'll support whatever will make getting programs into Ubuntu easier. :)
[19:29] <BigWhale> if this involves getting rid of universe, then so be it. :)
[19:31] <BigWhale> however, in the future, I'd love to see every program with at least some unit tests that ensure program will at least execute correctly
[19:32] <sarnold> shutdown(8)? :)
[19:33] <desrt> could be tested with the proper virtualisation :)
[19:34] <BigWhale> funny, shutdown has no test switch. Well, it should! :))
[19:39] <dobey> hmm
[19:40] <dobey> I'd love to see "incomplete" bugs in the ubuntu distribution on launchpad get auto-expired
[19:40] <seb128> they do
[19:41] <dobey> since when?
[19:41] <seb128> 1 year or so?
[19:41] <seb128> or maybe longer
[19:42] <dobey> i'm looking at bugs filed against u1 from maverick, which i marked incomplete over a year ago, that are still around
[19:42] <seb128> bug number?
[19:42] <Laney> I think if there's any response the expiration stops
[19:42] <Laney> or something like that
[19:43] <dobey> :-/
[19:43] <dobey> bug #703979 was one
[19:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 703979 in ubuntuone-client "UbuntuOne continually faults leaving system unusable" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703979
[19:45] <sarnold> I thought it was 90 days?
[19:45] <dobey> usually it says "This bug will expire in XX days if there is no activity."
[19:45] <dobey> but i haven't seen that on any of these bugs against ubuntu yet :-/
[19:46] <seb128> dobey, that's because the users replied to your questions
[19:47] <dobey> the questions weren't answered, hence it was still incomplete. and on other bugs, there were no replies
[19:47] <micahg> it's 60 days with no response
[19:47] <dobey> like this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/616921
[19:47] <ubot2> dobey: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x9212c2c> bug 616921 not found
[19:48]  * micahg isn't sure if private bugs expire
[19:49] <dobey> or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/602478
[19:49] <ubot2> dobey: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x9212c2c> bug 602478 not found
[19:49] <dobey> or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/618170
[19:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 618170 in ubuntuone-client "package python-ubuntuone-client 1.3.8-0ubuntu2 [modified: usr/share/pyshared/ubuntuone/syncdaemon/main.py] failed to install/upgrade: Unterprozess installiertes post-installation-Skript gab den Fehlerwert 1 zurück" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[19:49] <dobey> thought that prev one was private, but apparently not
[19:51] <dobey> err, s/private/public/
[20:13] <seb128> mterry, is the greeter still supposed to have a session selector icon?
[20:14] <mterry> seb128, not if you only have one session installed
[20:16] <seb128> mterry, oh, yeah, seems like things got uninstalled ... I've it back now, thanks
[20:16] <seb128> mterry, selection doesn't work fine though
[20:16] <seb128> like it sometimes has the text entry cursor and clicks seem to go through
[20:16] <mterry> seb128, you can't click the first two entries?
[20:16] <mterry> seb128, fixed in trunk
[20:17] <seb128> mterry, you are always one step ahead I can see ;-)
[20:17] <seb128> yhanks
[20:17] <seb128> thanks
[20:17] <mterry> seb128, would be better if bug did't exist at all, but sure  :)
[21:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, my upload of gtkhtml4.0 got rejected by an archive admin, is there any way to find out why?
[21:18] <Laney> robert_ancell: infinity rejected it temporarily because of the tightened shlibs
[21:20] <robert_ancell> Laney, what effect does that have?
[21:20] <Laney> you can get rejected packages back and accept them later
[21:20] <Laney> it was just to stop somoene accidently accepting it
[21:20] <Laney> it should have been accepted first, and then evolution
[21:21] <robert_ancell> Laney, ok, so I don't need to change anything and it will be accepted at a later date?
[21:21] <Laney> right
[21:22] <Laney> then we'll need to rebuild all of the rdeps
[21:22] <Laney> well, all 4 or so of them :-)
[21:22] <robert_ancell> we *really* need to automate that
[21:22] <Laney> tightened build-deps would have helped here
[21:23] <robert_ancell> Laney, in what way? So that evo depended on the newer gtkhtml? The problem is that upstream doesn't require the new gtkhtml
[21:50] <robert_ancell> mterry, yay!
[21:51] <mterry> robert_ancell, :)  some of the way
[21:51] <mterry> robert_ancell, now I'm seeing errors like "Error writing X authority: Error opening file '/tmp/lightdm-test-G2Ljc8/home/guest-Gfg19k/.Xauthority': Permission denied"
[21:53] <robert_ancell> mterry, weird
[22:11] <jbicha> robert_ancell: hey, so what do you think about leaving gnome-user-docs at 3.4 since we're holding back on gnome-control-center and nautilus?
[22:11] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I'm not opposed. I'm always unsure what to do about the user-docs since the content may not match what we have in Ubuntu
[22:12] <jbicha> the docs are a bit of a mess
[22:13] <jbicha> I started using conditional formatting in gnome-user-docs which will let us show Unity-specific stuff to Unity users & GNOME stuff to everyone else
[22:13] <jbicha> but the conditional formating won't allow us to change page titles so that only reduces the diff by half-ish
[22:15] <jbicha> as a related problem, the Ubuntu GNOME Remix has to ship ubuntu-docs because of patches to call help:ubuntu-help instead of help:gnome-help
[22:16] <jbicha> *ship both gnome-user-guide & ubuntu-docs
[22:39] <robert_ancell> jbicha, u-g-r is good in that it's highlighting these hacks so we are forced to come up with proper solutions
[23:02] <jbicha> wow, gstreamer 1.6 by June and to think I still remember when we were at 0.10 http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/wiki/ReleasePlanning/RoadMap
[23:06] <robert_ancell> jbicha, hey, make sure to leave the sushi update (bug 1055853)
[23:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055853 in gnome-sushi "update gnome-sushi to 3.6.0" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055853
[23:06] <robert_ancell> mfisch is practising updates
[23:08] <jbicha> ok
[23:13] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: hey
[23:13] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, hello
[23:13] <cyphermox> evo needs to be updated becuase of gtkhtml; I just wanted to make sure you weren't already preparing something before I upload
[23:15] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, what needs updating?
[23:17] <cyphermox> hmm, I was just relaying information, now I see it doesn't make much sense
[23:18] <TheMuso> Are we uploading GNOME 3.6 to proposed, or waiting till post beta?
[23:19] <jbicha> robert's already uploaded half of it :)
[23:19] <TheMuso> If to proposed, then ok will upload a11y stack bits there too.
[23:20] <jbicha> he's just been uploading to -release as there's conflicting advice about whether -proposed is better for this
[23:21] <TheMuso> Hrm ok.
[23:21] <TheMuso> Yeah, proposed makes sense for soft freezes, but not really for hard freezes.
[23:27] <TheMuso> D/c