| === ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle | ||
| === ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle | ||
| === davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle | ||
| === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch | ||
| === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow | ||
| === ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle | ||
| === mpt_ is now known as mpt | ||
| snwh | mpt it was suggested I ought talk to you about mockups I've done, regaring unity settings in Ubuntu: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png | 16:26 |
|---|---|---|
| mpt | snwh, that icons URL <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png> gives me a 404. | 16:30 |
| mpt | now, to the settings panel | 16:31 |
| snwh | mpt, that one's gone so it'll 404 | 16:31 |
| mpt | snwh, if an Ubuntu user sees the word "Unity" anywhere in the UI, we've screwed up. | 16:32 |
| snwh | "Dash" then? | 16:32 |
| snwh | since it's present in the UI already | 16:33 |
| mpt | We have names for specific elements -- Dash, Launcher, menu bar, windows, notification bubbles, etc -- and that's unavoidable, but there's no reason for people to know that some those elements are part of "Unity" and some aren't. | 16:33 |
| mpt | "Dash" would be fine, yes. | 16:33 |
| mpt | <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png>: Have you considered making the Dash settings part of the "Appearance" tab? There are pros and cons to doing that. | 16:34 |
| snwh | I think that was briefly discussed when I sent these through unity-design ML | 16:35 |
| snwh | would it not be more easily found if it were out front -as it were? | 16:36 |
| mpt | Yes, it would | 16:37 |
| mpt | I designed a separate "Launcher & Menus" panel a while ago for the same reason | 16:37 |
| mpt | (back when we were considering making the menu bar more configurable) | 16:37 |
| snwh | such as the infamous autohide menu. | 16:38 |
| mpt | So that would be one of the cons. The pro is that it would avoid panel proliferation, with the ugly orphan effect in your mockup. | 16:38 |
| mpt | (orphan = the last item on a row by itself) | 16:38 |
| snwh | and we don't want to stretch it again as for U1 | 16:39 |
| mpt | Unfortunately the hard work of merging panels isn't as sexy as creating new ones | 16:39 |
| mpt | <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png>: I don't know what "Dash Form Factor" means, and I doubt other people would either :-) | 16:40 |
| mpt | The menu label is far too far away from the menu -- it should be 12px or so | 16:40 |
| mpt | "Search Results" looks awkward as a heading when it's the only heading in the panel. | 16:40 |
| mpt | I've found a good heuristic when designing is that if you're repeating a word several times, you can usually factor it out. | 16:41 |
| mpt | What's the repeated word here, and how could you solve that and the single-heading problem at the same time? | 16:42 |
| snwh | Well "Lens" | 16:43 |
| snwh | a title i suppose | 16:43 |
| snwh | I wasn't sure about the labeling but to differentiate lens from scopes | 16:44 |
| mpt | I think "Lens" and (especially) "Scope" falls into the same category as "Unity" :-) | 16:46 |
| mpt | but actually I was looking at the main area of the "Dash Home" sub-panel specifically | 16:47 |
| snwh | I thought of putting it in since installable lens and scopes appear in the Software center with that as a label | 16:47 |
| snwh | Ah "results" | 16:47 |
| mpt | "Search Results", "Amazon results", "Ubuntu One Music Store results" | 16:47 |
| mpt | bingo | 16:47 |
| mpt | So, how could you fix that? | 16:48 |
| snwh | i had a version without, but thought if its too much i'll be told to remove it | 16:48 |
| snwh | drop it entirely? | 16:48 |
| mpt | That's one way. How else? | 16:48 |
| snwh | scrap it and put the Amazon and U1 store scopes on the left? | 16:50 |
| mpt | That's a possibility, but I'm not sure what would go in the main area in that case. How else? | 16:50 |
| snwh | putting me on the spot. I'm blanking | 16:51 |
| snwh | if the header was gone.. and just the checkboxes..? | 16:53 |
| mpt | snwh, if someone asked you what these checkboxes do, what would you say? | 17:05 |
| snwh | Unchecking would prevent Amazon results from appearing in the Dash home | 17:07 |
| snwh | for example | 17:07 |
| mpt | And what would checking them do? | 17:07 |
| snwh | show the results | 17:07 |
| mpt | good | 17:07 |
| snwh | a switch | 17:07 |
| mpt | Those are good words to use in a label | 17:07 |
| mpt | When searching, show results from: | 17:08 |
| mpt | [/] Amazon | 17:08 |
| mpt | [/] Ubuntu One Music Store | 17:08 |
| mpt | Since it shows results from your PC as well, perhaps "include" would be even better than "show". | 17:08 |
| snwh | of course | 17:09 |
| mpt | <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png> | 17:09 |
| mpt | snwh, would there be a "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox for every lens? | 17:10 |
| snwh | something along those lines | 17:11 |
| mpt | Can you think of a drawback to presenting settings for the Dash Home contents that way? | 17:12 |
| snwh | if a user wanted to hide the results from the home, but not disable the lens entirely | 17:12 |
| snwh | not knowing which are disabled | 17:13 |
| mpt | right | 17:13 |
| mpt | It would be difficult to see, at a glance, which items might appear and which wouldn't. | 17:14 |
| mpt | You'd have to navigate to each item in the list and then look at its "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox. | 17:14 |
| mpt | How might you make that quicker? | 17:15 |
| snwh | a massive checklist | 17:15 |
| snwh | perhaps under home settings | 17:15 |
| snwh | would a tree view be too much | 17:16 |
| mpt | Ah, but you already have a tree view there :-) | 17:16 |
| mpt | How about using the same one? | 17:16 |
| snwh | but with an indication of which are disable | 17:16 |
| snwh | -ed* | 17:17 |
| mpt | That would work | 17:17 |
| mpt | Or, you could move the checkbox itself into a column of the treeview. | 17:17 |
| snwh | of course | 17:18 |
| snwh | this is why youre the professional | 17:18 |
| mpt | heh | 17:19 |
| mpt | With regard to Unity, we're both interested bystanders. :-) | 17:19 |
| snwh | i was concerned with the advent of more and more lenses this is a missing feature | 17:19 |
| mpt | yes indeed | 17:20 |
| snwh | but beyond my skills to try myself | 17:23 |
| bizhanMona | HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx | 17:29 |
| bizhanMona | HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx | 17:29 |
| snwh | well mpt, i shall fix the mockups | 17:31 |
| me4oslav | bizhanMona Try asking on just #ubuntu ... I guess :) | 17:31 |
| mpt | snwh, good work. Thanks for getting involved. | 17:31 |
| snwh | mpt, thanks for taking the time | 17:32 |
| snwh | to set me straight | 17:32 |
| snwh | heh | 17:32 |
| mpt | bizhanMona, this isn't really the appropriate channel for that, but no. <http://blog.canonical.com/2012/09/20/quetzal-is-taking-flight-update-on-ubuntu-secure-boot-plans/> | 17:33 |
| mpt | bizhanMona, if you have more questions after reading that, I suggest asking in #ubuntu-devel. | 17:33 |
| mpt | (Though I see you already got the same answer in #ubuntu-desktop.) | 17:34 |
| bizhanMona | mpt: thanks I placed the question on a few ubuntu- channels at the same time, I was not sure which one is the appropriate place. Now i know. thank you. | 17:37 |
| mpt | np | 17:38 |
| snwh | alright, mpt some improvements made: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png | 19:17 |
| mpt | snwh, nice work | 19:17 |
| mpt | snwh, all the panels are settings panels, so "Dash Settings" might be a little redundant :-) | 19:18 |
| mpt | What choices would be available in the "Dash size:" menu? | 19:19 |
| snwh | I was thinging full-screen, reduced(?) and automatic | 19:20 |
| snwh | think* | 19:20 |
| mpt | snwh, do you know what "Automatic" does? | 19:22 |
| snwh | Would choose either full-screen or reduced depending on the screen size. | 19:23 |
| snwh | i guess its not clear to an end user | 19:24 |
| snwh | "Adapt-to-screen" | 19:24 |
| mpt | so, there are three options | 19:26 |
| mpt | Do you think a menu is the best way to present those three options? | 19:26 |
| snwh | radio buttons? | 19:26 |
| mpt | yep | 19:27 |
| mpt | Open the Dash: ( ) Full screen (*) Reduced on large screens | 19:28 |
| mpt | or something like that | 19:28 |
| mpt | (maybe "Dash size:" would actually be clearer for that) | 19:29 |
| mpt | I guess the "Home" lens item shouldn't have a checkbox at all, eh | 19:29 |
| mpt | but the rest of them need a column heading to explain what the checkboxes are for | 19:30 |
| mpt | What could that be | 19:30 |
| mpt | Oh, I left out the "Automatic" option | 19:30 |
| mpt | for the Dash size | 19:30 |
| snwh | well the checkbox is to invoke the status of the lens/scope | 19:31 |
| mpt | If there are three or more options, radio buttons shouldn't be laid out horizontally -- in this case because they wouldn't fit, but in general because it would mean they were differing distances apart | 19:31 |
| snwh | so: "Enabled" as a column | 19:31 |
| mpt | but there's plenty of room here to go vertical | 19:31 |
| snwh | but doesnt a checkbox have the implicit meaning of whatever it does is enabled or not? | 19:33 |
| mpt | Size for the Dash when opened: (*) Automatic | 19:33 |
| mpt | ( ) Full screen | 19:33 |
| mpt | ( ) Reduced on smaller screens | 19:33 |
| mpt | or something | 19:33 |
| snwh | the radio buttons wouldnt go under the label? | 19:34 |
| mpt | they could, depending on the width | 19:34 |
| snwh | okay | 19:34 |
| mpt | snwh, yes indeed, "Enable", like "Enabled", is best avoided -- invariably it can be rewritten more meaningfully | 19:35 |
| mpt | I guess a fully explanatory heading would be "Include in Home Results" | 19:36 |
| mpt | I wonder if that could be shorter | 19:36 |
| snwh | but then Home is under "Include in Home results" which is paradoxical | 19:36 |
| mpt | That's okay if it doesn't have a checkbox | 19:36 |
| snwh | okay | 19:37 |
| snwh | mpt, could the radio buttons go something like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png | 19:43 |
| mpt | snwh, yep | 19:44 |
| mpt | snwh, the radio buttons was just an idea ... it depends partly on how much space is available, and partly on how important the setting is | 19:45 |
| snwh | well the "window controls" do exist when the dash is present | 19:46 |
| snwh | mpt, i think we're getting somewhere https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png | 20:04 |
| mpt | Progress indeed | 20:05 |
| me4oslav | I just came to say, that snwh's speed of creating mockups is to infinity and beyond. **flies away** | 20:06 |
| snwh | the HUD is very useful in GIMP | 20:07 |
| mpt | snwh, I need to concentrate on messaging menu stuff now, but I'd be interested to see how the rest of the screens look tomorrow perhaps | 20:11 |
| mpt | snwh, also, has didrocks seen your work? | 20:11 |
| snwh | no didrocks hasnt | 20:13 |
| snwh | i could have the other screens completed | 20:14 |
| snwh | mpt, i did have a thought on the messaging menu though -regarding icons | 20:15 |
| mpt | snwh, ah, were you the one who did the colored envelopes? | 20:15 |
| snwh | yes | 20:15 |
| mpt | The tricky thing is that we are trying to communicate two different things with the icon | 20:16 |
| mpt | (1) whether you have new (important) messages or not | 20:16 |
| mpt | (2) what your chat status is | 20:16 |
| mpt | Currently we're using the color of the envelope for (1), and the emblem for (2). | 20:16 |
| mpt | You use the color of the envelope for (2), which gives up (1) altogether as far as I can see. | 20:17 |
| snwh | what if the envelop were to blink? | 20:17 |
| mpt | I think that would be unpleasant, because you may want to leave it for hours | 20:18 |
| snwh | true | 20:18 |
| mpt | (Actually I think it used to blink, briefly, for a while in the 9.10/10.04 era) | 20:18 |
| mpt | (and sabdfl rightly scotched it) | 20:18 |
| snwh | i fail to recall that.. | 20:19 |
| me4oslav | what if only a part of the envelope is coloured in-some-colour? | 20:19 |
| snwh | my thought was to use the colours since the new message blue would still convey its meaning and revert to the green or what have you when read. | 20:19 |
| mpt | me4oslav, that's pretty much what the emblem achieves -- with the benefit that it's using miniatures of the same icons Empathy uses itself. | 20:19 |
| mpt | The problem with the current icons, I think, is that the emblems don't stand out strongly enough against the envelope. That's partly a problem of color (not bright enough), partly size (a little too small), and partly outline (maybe the envelope should have an emblem-shaped chunk cut out of it). | 20:20 |
| snwh | the different shapes are a bit garish, if they were all circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png | 20:22 |
| me4oslav | mpt - I think (major rajor personal opinion) that this colourful emblem is a bit too much (could be very wrong, through) | 20:22 |
| mpt | snwh, with both the envelope and the emblem, the differing shapes helps people who are color blind | 20:23 |
| mpt | (or have lesser color impairments) | 20:24 |
| mpt | However, they are a bit *too* different in size right now | 20:24 |
| mpt | e.g. the triangle looks much larger than the square | 20:24 |
| snwh | very true | 20:25 |
| snwh | if the emblem was within the circle? | 20:25 |
| snwh | then the overlay would be too small | 20:26 |
| snwh | mpt, what is it was no longer an envelope? | 20:29 |
| snwh | if* | 20:29 |
| snwh | but i suppose thats the most familiar metaphor | 20:32 |
| snwh | answering my own questions. | 20:32 |
| mpt | snwh, yes, it could be a speech bubble or something instead | 20:36 |
| snwh | like the good ol' me menu of the past, heh | 20:36 |
| mpt | yep | 20:36 |
| mpt | (which is fair enough, since it is a merger) | 20:37 |
| mpt | oh, wtf | 20:37 |
| mpt | OMG Ubuntu, a week ago: "Where no chat accounts are enabled you’ll still be stuck with an annoying green dot (to denote ‘online)." | 20:37 |
| mpt | And nobody thought to report a bug about that? | 20:37 |
| snwh | i noticed that with my green envelope thing, but thought it was something i'd done | 20:38 |
| mpt | (reported bug 1056457) | 21:07 |
| snwh | mpt, how about shapes like this? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-menu.png | 21:27 |
| mpt | snwh, that looks okay, except that now you're showing chat status in two different ways | 21:28 |
| mpt | (a) color of the envelope, and (b) color+shape of the status icon | 21:28 |
| me4oslav | mpt snwh - In case you haven't seen it: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/is-an-off-switch-for-the-shopping-lens-in-the-works | 21:30 |
| mpt | :-) | 21:31 |
| snwh | I only changed the shapes, just now. havent touched the envelopes | 21:32 |
| snwh | Geez Joey is everywhere | 21:32 |
| mpt | If Joey was here, I would scowl at him here for not reporting that bug | 22:08 |
| mpt | snwh, I reported http://launchpad.net/bugs/1056488 about the messaging menu icons | 22:35 |
| * mpt -> home | 22:35 | |
| me4oslav | mpt you've at the office 'til 11.37? | 22:37 |
| me4oslav | O.o | 22:37 |
| me4oslav | PM that is | 22:37 |
| mpt | yeah, I was sick this morning so started at 3pm | 22:37 |
| mpt | anyway, toodle pip | 22:38 |
| snwh | All the way over here in Canada it's only 639pm | 22:39 |
| me4oslav | 1.40 AM ... had 4 coffees today, can't sleep ... oh well, I can always start work bit later tmrw :) | 22:40 |
| snwh | me4oslav, indeed you can | 22:42 |
| snwh | that sounds like my usual coffee consumption | 22:43 |
| me4oslav | So, that's what the secret about the mockups is :D | 22:44 |
| snwh | me4oslav, how to you like these circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot2.png | 23:22 |
| me4oslav | snwh - circlesepcion on invisible :P | 23:24 |
| snwh | easy to do in inkscape | 23:24 |
| snwh | i thought of an infinity symbol for busy | 23:25 |
| me4oslav | let's steal Skype's - tick on a grey circle and see what happens | 23:26 |
| me4oslav | BTW, after those two are done (Dash in System Settings and messaging menu icons) mind mocking up a sound menu design, I have in on pen ana paper (better than the last ones you've seen), I just suck at mockups. | 23:27 |
| snwh | not a problem | 23:29 |
| me4oslav | AWESOME. I will go to bed now (just to lie down and read some bizarre fiction), obviously I won't be able to sleep :D | 23:30 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
