=== ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle === ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle === davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === ckpringle_ is now known as ckpringle === mpt_ is now known as mpt [16:26] mpt it was suggested I ought talk to you about mockups I've done, regaring unity settings in Ubuntu: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png [16:30] snwh, that icons URL gives me a 404. [16:31] now, to the settings panel [16:31] mpt, that one's gone so it'll 404 [16:32] snwh, if an Ubuntu user sees the word "Unity" anywhere in the UI, we've screwed up. [16:32] "Dash" then? [16:33] since it's present in the UI already [16:33] We have names for specific elements -- Dash, Launcher, menu bar, windows, notification bubbles, etc -- and that's unavoidable, but there's no reason for people to know that some those elements are part of "Unity" and some aren't. [16:33] "Dash" would be fine, yes. [16:34] : Have you considered making the Dash settings part of the "Appearance" tab? There are pros and cons to doing that. [16:35] I think that was briefly discussed when I sent these through unity-design ML [16:36] would it not be more easily found if it were out front -as it were? [16:37] Yes, it would [16:37] I designed a separate "Launcher & Menus" panel a while ago for the same reason [16:37] (back when we were considering making the menu bar more configurable) [16:38] such as the infamous autohide menu. [16:38] So that would be one of the cons. The pro is that it would avoid panel proliferation, with the ugly orphan effect in your mockup. [16:38] (orphan = the last item on a row by itself) [16:39] and we don't want to stretch it again as for U1 [16:39] Unfortunately the hard work of merging panels isn't as sexy as creating new ones [16:40] : I don't know what "Dash Form Factor" means, and I doubt other people would either :-) [16:40] The menu label is far too far away from the menu -- it should be 12px or so [16:40] "Search Results" looks awkward as a heading when it's the only heading in the panel. [16:41] I've found a good heuristic when designing is that if you're repeating a word several times, you can usually factor it out. [16:42] What's the repeated word here, and how could you solve that and the single-heading problem at the same time? [16:43] Well "Lens" [16:43] a title i suppose [16:44] I wasn't sure about the labeling but to differentiate lens from scopes [16:46] I think "Lens" and (especially) "Scope" falls into the same category as "Unity" :-) [16:47] but actually I was looking at the main area of the "Dash Home" sub-panel specifically [16:47] I thought of putting it in since installable lens and scopes appear in the Software center with that as a label [16:47] Ah "results" [16:47] "Search Results", "Amazon results", "Ubuntu One Music Store results" [16:47] bingo [16:48] So, how could you fix that? [16:48] i had a version without, but thought if its too much i'll be told to remove it [16:48] drop it entirely? [16:48] That's one way. How else? [16:50] scrap it and put the Amazon and U1 store scopes on the left? [16:50] That's a possibility, but I'm not sure what would go in the main area in that case. How else? [16:51] putting me on the spot. I'm blanking [16:53] if the header was gone.. and just the checkboxes..? [17:05] snwh, if someone asked you what these checkboxes do, what would you say? [17:07] Unchecking would prevent Amazon results from appearing in the Dash home [17:07] for example [17:07] And what would checking them do? [17:07] show the results [17:07] good [17:07] a switch [17:07] Those are good words to use in a label [17:08] When searching, show results from: [17:08] [/] Amazon [17:08] [/] Ubuntu One Music Store [17:08] Since it shows results from your PC as well, perhaps "include" would be even better than "show". [17:09] of course [17:09] [17:10] snwh, would there be a "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox for every lens? [17:11] something along those lines [17:12] Can you think of a drawback to presenting settings for the Dash Home contents that way? [17:12] if a user wanted to hide the results from the home, but not disable the lens entirely [17:13] not knowing which are disabled [17:13] right [17:14] It would be difficult to see, at a glance, which items might appear and which wouldn't. [17:14] You'd have to navigate to each item in the list and then look at its "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox. [17:15] How might you make that quicker? [17:15] a massive checklist [17:15] perhaps under home settings [17:16] would a tree view be too much [17:16] Ah, but you already have a tree view there :-) [17:16] How about using the same one? [17:16] but with an indication of which are disable [17:17] -ed* [17:17] That would work [17:17] Or, you could move the checkbox itself into a column of the treeview. [17:18] of course [17:18] this is why youre the professional [17:19] heh [17:19] With regard to Unity, we're both interested bystanders. :-) [17:19] i was concerned with the advent of more and more lenses this is a missing feature [17:20] yes indeed [17:23] but beyond my skills to try myself [17:29] HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx [17:29] HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx [17:31] well mpt, i shall fix the mockups [17:31] bizhanMona Try asking on just #ubuntu ... I guess :) [17:31] snwh, good work. Thanks for getting involved. [17:32] mpt, thanks for taking the time [17:32] to set me straight [17:32] heh [17:33] bizhanMona, this isn't really the appropriate channel for that, but no. [17:33] bizhanMona, if you have more questions after reading that, I suggest asking in #ubuntu-devel. [17:34] (Though I see you already got the same answer in #ubuntu-desktop.) [17:37] mpt: thanks I placed the question on a few ubuntu- channels at the same time, I was not sure which one is the appropriate place. Now i know. thank you. [17:38] np [19:17] alright, mpt some improvements made: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png [19:17] snwh, nice work [19:18] snwh, all the panels are settings panels, so "Dash Settings" might be a little redundant :-) [19:19] What choices would be available in the "Dash size:" menu? [19:20] I was thinging full-screen, reduced(?) and automatic [19:20] think* [19:22] snwh, do you know what "Automatic" does? [19:23] Would choose either full-screen or reduced depending on the screen size. [19:24] i guess its not clear to an end user [19:24] "Adapt-to-screen" [19:26] so, there are three options [19:26] Do you think a menu is the best way to present those three options? [19:26] radio buttons? [19:27] yep [19:28] Open the Dash: ( ) Full screen (*) Reduced on large screens [19:28] or something like that [19:29] (maybe "Dash size:" would actually be clearer for that) [19:29] I guess the "Home" lens item shouldn't have a checkbox at all, eh [19:30] but the rest of them need a column heading to explain what the checkboxes are for [19:30] What could that be [19:30] Oh, I left out the "Automatic" option [19:30] for the Dash size [19:31] well the checkbox is to invoke the status of the lens/scope [19:31] If there are three or more options, radio buttons shouldn't be laid out horizontally -- in this case because they wouldn't fit, but in general because it would mean they were differing distances apart [19:31] so: "Enabled" as a column [19:31] but there's plenty of room here to go vertical [19:33] but doesnt a checkbox have the implicit meaning of whatever it does is enabled or not? [19:33] Size for the Dash when opened: (*) Automatic [19:33] ( ) Full screen [19:33] ( ) Reduced on smaller screens [19:33] or something [19:34] the radio buttons wouldnt go under the label? [19:34] they could, depending on the width [19:34] okay [19:35] snwh, yes indeed, "Enable", like "Enabled", is best avoided -- invariably it can be rewritten more meaningfully [19:36] I guess a fully explanatory heading would be "Include in Home Results" [19:36] I wonder if that could be shorter [19:36] but then Home is under "Include in Home results" which is paradoxical [19:36] That's okay if it doesn't have a checkbox [19:37] okay [19:43] mpt, could the radio buttons go something like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png [19:44] snwh, yep [19:45] snwh, the radio buttons was just an idea ... it depends partly on how much space is available, and partly on how important the setting is [19:46] well the "window controls" do exist when the dash is present [20:04] mpt, i think we're getting somewhere https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png [20:05] Progress indeed [20:06] I just came to say, that snwh's speed of creating mockups is to infinity and beyond. **flies away** [20:07] the HUD is very useful in GIMP [20:11] snwh, I need to concentrate on messaging menu stuff now, but I'd be interested to see how the rest of the screens look tomorrow perhaps [20:11] snwh, also, has didrocks seen your work? [20:13] no didrocks hasnt [20:14] i could have the other screens completed [20:15] mpt, i did have a thought on the messaging menu though -regarding icons [20:15] snwh, ah, were you the one who did the colored envelopes? [20:15] yes [20:16] The tricky thing is that we are trying to communicate two different things with the icon [20:16] (1) whether you have new (important) messages or not [20:16] (2) what your chat status is [20:16] Currently we're using the color of the envelope for (1), and the emblem for (2). [20:17] You use the color of the envelope for (2), which gives up (1) altogether as far as I can see. [20:17] what if the envelop were to blink? [20:18] I think that would be unpleasant, because you may want to leave it for hours [20:18] true [20:18] (Actually I think it used to blink, briefly, for a while in the 9.10/10.04 era) [20:18] (and sabdfl rightly scotched it) [20:19] i fail to recall that.. [20:19] what if only a part of the envelope is coloured in-some-colour? [20:19] my thought was to use the colours since the new message blue would still convey its meaning and revert to the green or what have you when read. [20:19] me4oslav, that's pretty much what the emblem achieves -- with the benefit that it's using miniatures of the same icons Empathy uses itself. [20:20] The problem with the current icons, I think, is that the emblems don't stand out strongly enough against the envelope. That's partly a problem of color (not bright enough), partly size (a little too small), and partly outline (maybe the envelope should have an emblem-shaped chunk cut out of it). [20:22] the different shapes are a bit garish, if they were all circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png [20:22] mpt - I think (major rajor personal opinion) that this colourful emblem is a bit too much (could be very wrong, through) [20:23] snwh, with both the envelope and the emblem, the differing shapes helps people who are color blind [20:24] (or have lesser color impairments) [20:24] However, they are a bit *too* different in size right now [20:24] e.g. the triangle looks much larger than the square [20:25] very true [20:25] if the emblem was within the circle? [20:26] then the overlay would be too small [20:29] mpt, what is it was no longer an envelope? [20:29] if* [20:32] but i suppose thats the most familiar metaphor [20:32] answering my own questions. [20:36] snwh, yes, it could be a speech bubble or something instead [20:36] like the good ol' me menu of the past, heh [20:36] yep [20:37] (which is fair enough, since it is a merger) [20:37] oh, wtf [20:37] OMG Ubuntu, a week ago: "Where no chat accounts are enabled you’ll still be stuck with an annoying green dot (to denote ‘online)." [20:37] And nobody thought to report a bug about that? [20:38] i noticed that with my green envelope thing, but thought it was something i'd done [21:07] (reported bug 1056457) [21:27] mpt, how about shapes like this? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-menu.png [21:28] snwh, that looks okay, except that now you're showing chat status in two different ways [21:28] (a) color of the envelope, and (b) color+shape of the status icon [21:30] mpt snwh - In case you haven't seen it: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/is-an-off-switch-for-the-shopping-lens-in-the-works [21:31] :-) [21:32] I only changed the shapes, just now. havent touched the envelopes [21:32] Geez Joey is everywhere [22:08] If Joey was here, I would scowl at him here for not reporting that bug [22:35] snwh, I reported http://launchpad.net/bugs/1056488 about the messaging menu icons [22:35] * mpt -> home [22:37] mpt you've at the office 'til 11.37? [22:37] O.o [22:37] PM that is [22:37] yeah, I was sick this morning so started at 3pm [22:38] anyway, toodle pip [22:39] All the way over here in Canada it's only 639pm [22:40] 1.40 AM ... had 4 coffees today, can't sleep ... oh well, I can always start work bit later tmrw :) [22:42] me4oslav, indeed you can [22:43] that sounds like my usual coffee consumption [22:44] So, that's what the secret about the mockups is :D [23:22] me4oslav, how to you like these circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot2.png [23:24] snwh - circlesepcion on invisible :P [23:24] easy to do in inkscape [23:25] i thought of an infinity symbol for busy [23:26] let's steal Skype's - tick on a grey circle and see what happens [23:27] BTW, after those two are done (Dash in System Settings and messaging menu icons) mind mocking up a sound menu design, I have in on pen ana paper (better than the last ones you've seen), I just suck at mockups. [23:29] not a problem [23:30] AWESOME. I will go to bed now (just to lie down and read some bizarre fiction), obviously I won't be able to sleep :D