[00:42] <ali1234> not any more
[00:46] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/mousetweaks/+bug/762806
[00:46] <ali1234> apparently it's fixed
[03:46] <em> its suddenly getting late
[03:46] <Azelphur> just a tad
[03:46] <Azelphur> have some music to keep you going http://youtu.be/lMWmi9ovX7M
 -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/bacon-sausage-shortage_n_1909609.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
[06:27] <insync> hi is this the ukrainian channel?
[07:15] <knightwise> mornin
[07:23] <christel> morning :)
[07:24] <knightwise> morning christel
[07:24] <christel> how are you knightwise ? :)
[07:24] <knightwise> how are you today
[07:25] <christel> not too bad! not quite as awake as i'd like to be (as evidenced by pouring a cup of coffee down myself)
[07:25] <AlanChicken> morning
[07:25] <knightwise> doing fine    irc'ing over ssh on my linux server from my android phone
[07:25] <knightwise> mmmm coffeeeeeeee
[07:25] <AlanBell> thats better
[07:25] <knightwise> hey alanbell
[07:28] <knightwise> hmmm been tinkering with hfs+yesterday
[07:28] <knightwise> want a shared partition both my mac and linux os can write to
[07:29] <knightwise> kinda works but still a little dicy when it comes to file rights and stuff
[07:36] <knightwise> hey popey
[07:37] <knightwise> popey  you dont happen to be free for an hour tomorrow night for that interview i have been bugging you about ?
[07:37] <popey> :)
[07:37] <popey> sure
[07:38] <popey> 19:00 UTC is best for me
[07:39] <knightwise> that would be 2100 hours brussels time ?
[07:39] <knightwise> perfect   ill send you an invite
[07:40] <popey> ta, send it to alan.pope@canonical.com pls
[07:42] <knightwise> done :)
[07:48] <popey> ta
[07:54] <mattt> morning
[08:00] <knightwise> hey matt
[08:01] <mattt> knightwise: how's things?
[08:02] <knightwise> doin fine   working on the next podcast and stuff
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> Would a podcast from Australia be an antipod(e)cast?
[08:03] <elfy> lol
[08:03] <knightwise> lol   dont know   i have done several with aussies though
[08:04] <knightwise> hey ivanka
[08:05] <knightwise> brb /quit
[08:08] <diplo> Morning all
[08:08] <diplo> From peeps in the know, how do i list users in irssi ?
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> diplo: /list
[08:13] <diplo> ta fanx
[08:13] <MartijnVdS> or /who
[08:14] <diplo> list doesn't seem to work, when i log in they are in a small grouping like [name] [name] etc
[08:15] <MartijnVdS>  /names  then?
[08:15] <diplo> ah yes that's it ta!
[08:15] <diplo> I really seem to suck at Goo Foo at the mo
[08:15]  * diplo puts it down to lack of sleep
[08:17] <ivanka> hi knightwise
[08:29] <Laney> who's on Virgin?
[08:29] <Laney> try http://alioth.debian.org please
[08:30] <AlanBell> popey: will there be a new unity landing soon?
[08:30] <AlanBell> getting a bit bored of having no window decorations
[08:30] <popey> its not broken
[08:30] <popey> fix your machine :)
[08:30] <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[08:30] <Laney> why would you need to install the task and not the metapackage?
[08:31] <popey> the metapackage doesn't pull stuff in, the task does
[08:31] <Laney> confused dot com
[08:31] <popey> if you (for example) do a dist upgrade which (due to archive skew) removes unity & friends, then reinstalling ubuntu-desktop will do nothing
[08:31] <popey> installing the task will re-pull in the deps
[08:31] <Laney> if it removes unity then it removes ubuntu-desktop
[08:32] <popey> not always
[08:32] <popey> and even if it does, re-installing ubuntu-desktop doesn't reinstall unity
[08:32] <popey> i have had this happen numerous times this cycle (and past cycles)
[08:33] <Laney> i certainly hope it does, otherwise Depends aren't working
[08:33] <Laney> recommends not so, but they shouldn't break things like window decorations
[08:33]  * mattt holds onto his butt
[08:34] <popey> AlanBell, fixored?
[08:35] <popey> either way, plan is to release another stack next week
[08:36] <AlanBell> that did pull in unity-webapps-common, lets give unity a prod and see what happens
[08:37] <AlanBell> nope, not fixored
[08:37] <diplo> Laney: Still need the url checked ?
[08:37] <Laney> oui
[08:37] <diplo> https://alioth.debian.org/themes/gforge/images/header/top-logo.png
[08:37] <diplo> Icon is missing
[08:37] <Laney> I just want to know if it works
[08:37] <diplo> But other than that it loads fine. Loads fine though
[08:39] <diplo> yeah clicked lot's of links and all seems to load / work ok
[08:39] <popey> AlanBell, what version of bamf do you have installed?
[08:39] <popey> apt-cache policy bamfdaemon
[08:39] <Laney> traceroute to alioth.debian.org (217.196.43.134), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1  cpc3-clif9-2-0-gw.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com (82.2.118.1)  15.130 ms  15.127 ms  16.622 ms 2  nott-core-2a-ae7-1387.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.229.13)  20.256 ms  20.273 ms  20.235 ms^C
[08:39] <AlanBell>   Installed: 0.3.0-0ubuntu2
[08:39] <Laney> [ NO MORE ]
[08:39] <Laney> :(
[08:40] <bigcalm> Grumble morning peeps :)
[08:40] <popey> what about libbamf0 and libbamf3-0 ?
[08:41] <AlanBell> popey: all the same
[08:41] <popey> AlanBell, do you have a /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity-webapps.so.0 ?
[08:42] <popey> if you run "dpkg -L libunity-webapps0 | grep so" does it show as one of the files installed?
[08:42] <AlanBell> I do have /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity-webapps.so.0
[08:42] <popey> ok, logout / login
[08:42] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226167/
[08:43] <popey> looks good
[08:45] <JamesTait> Oh yes, good morning all! :)
[08:45] <bigcalm> Staffers are so polite :)
[08:46] <AlanBell> popey: still borked
[08:47] <popey> pastebin .xsession-errors pls?
[08:47] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226172/
[08:48] <AlanBell> affects guest session too
[08:49] <popey> AlanBell, apt-cache policy compiz
[08:49] <popey> pastebin the whole thing pls
[08:49] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226176/
[08:52] <popey> i suspect this is a byproduct of you using timos ppa for a while
[08:53] <AlanBell> so do I
[08:53] <popey> AlanBell, apt-cache policy compiz-gnome    pls
[08:54] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226181/
[08:57] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:57] <bittin^work> hi
[08:57] <brobostigon> hi bittin^work
[08:58] <popey> AlanBell, same for libdecoration0 ?
[09:00] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226197/
[09:05] <bigcalm> Is spotify broken for anybody else right now?
[09:06] <popey> AlanBell, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226208/
[09:06] <popey> see if that re-downloads from the right places (i.e. no PPAs etc
[09:06] <ali1234> bigcalm: working for me
[09:06] <popey> wfm too
[09:06] <bigcalm> And you can play tracks?
[09:06] <popey> ya
[09:07] <bigcalm> Sods law, I can now as well
[09:07]  * bigcalm shakes a fist at the goblins jumping on the internet tubes
[09:07] <bigcalm> Thanks guys
[09:07] <AlanBell> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226209/
[09:08] <AlanBell> no PPA I can see, and still broken in a guest session
[09:09] <popey> hmm
[09:10] <popey> can you file a bug pls against compiz?
[09:12] <ali1234> i haven't had a single compiz problem since downgrading
[09:12] <ali1234> i kind of miss reporting bugs actually
[09:12] <AlanBell> yeah, but I want the new shiny
[09:14] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1056044
[09:14] <AlanBell> UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to quantal on 2012-06-21 (95 days ago) <- brave
[09:16] <popey> this social bit of spotify where it tells you what friends listen to... I am listening to dubstar thanks to laney :)
[09:16] <popey> might connect spotify to my fb account :S
[09:16] <popey> but then I'll get loads of 80's tat from davmor2
[09:16] <popey> :)
[09:16] <ali1234> dubstar
[09:16] <ali1234> are they still going?
[09:16] <bigcalm> Haha
[09:16] <Laney> (H)
[09:17] <Laney> it's this playlist: http://open.spotify.com/user/joellevandyne/playlist/6qWx4r20Pyx2GEtvccAEW3
[09:17]  * daubers loads his old school CD 
[09:17] <Laney> the first song is such a great tune
[09:17] <bigcalm> Their last album was in 2007 and titled Goodbye
[09:17] <Laney> I listen to it all the time
[09:17] <bittin^work> i clicked on Laneys link by mistake :(
[09:17] <Laney> what?
[09:17] <bittin^work> but when i think about it i seem to be more in that mood then µ-ziq mode
[09:17] <popey> laney is actually the only person listed in my spotify
[09:18] <ali1234> white town
[09:18] <Laney> yeah
[09:18] <ali1234> i bought that on CD single
[09:18] <ali1234> lolz
[09:18] <ali1234> oh gorky's
[09:18] <bittin^work> i can never be your woman
[09:18] <ali1234> rancid, deus... it's back to the 90s school disco
[09:19] <ali1234> "alternative edition"
[09:23] <bittin^work> Dubstar sounds like an UK version of T.a.T.U
[09:23] <directhex> ._.
[09:23] <ali1234> wat
[09:23] <bittin^work> the start of that song did
[09:24] <popey> "I was making myself the usual cup of tea when the doorbell strangely rang"
[09:24] <popey> *snort*
[09:30] <bittin^work> Laney, nice playlist =)
[09:30] <Laney> tis
[09:30] <Laney> I can't claim credit though
[09:30] <knightwise> strangely rang ?
[09:37] <Laney> http://open.spotify.com/user/seaninsound/playlist/1kh9rRntsjAirYNFMMMgtf
[09:37] <Laney> try that one too
[09:38] <bittin^work> Laney, nah not really my stuff
[09:38] <bigcalm> I'm confused by the spotify interface. I don't seem to be able to find/add new people within the client
[09:38] <Laney> I do spotify:user:username in the search box
[09:38] <ali1234> bigcalm: it's facebooky
[09:38] <bigcalm> ali1234: I refuse to link my facebook account. Maybe that's it
[09:38] <hoover> hi folks
[09:39] <ali1234> probably
[09:39] <bittin^work> as Laney said
[09:39] <bigcalm> I have 5 people in my list, but cannie add new peeps
[09:41] <popey> bigcalm, are you bigcalm?
[09:41] <popey> that sounds dumb
[09:41] <bigcalm> popey: I do believe I am
[09:41] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:41] <popey> bigcalm, are you bigcalm on spotify?
[09:41] <bigcalm> popey: yes ;)
[09:41]  * popey adds
[09:41] <bigcalm> \o/
[09:41] <bigcalm> How did you do so?
[09:42] <bittin^work> i have like 2 in my list
[09:42] <popey> did what laney said
[09:42] <bittin^work> 3
[09:42]  * bigcalm reads up
[09:42] <bittin^work> :p
[09:42] <popey> spotify:user:popeydc
[09:42] <popey> is me
[09:42] <bigcalm> popey data centre
[09:42] <popey> dot com
[09:42] <bigcalm> Bah
[09:43] <bigcalm> I wonder if I can add my avatar without being on facebook
[09:46] <bigcalm> Don't see how, oh well
[09:46] <diplo> :P
[09:46] <diplo> You lot just made me download it :)
[09:46] <ali1234> i don't even know what is my spotify user name
[09:46] <daubers> popey: You're now related to the megaupload guy?!?!?!?!?!
[09:46] <bigcalm> ali1234: says top right of your spotify client
[09:46] <diplo> heh ali1234, I just had to check keepassx :D
[09:47] <ali1234> it just says my full name taken from facebook
[09:47] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:47] <popey> i did connect my spotify to fb in the past then disconnected it
[09:47]  * bigcalm loads VB 2010 Express for the 1st time in many many months
[09:48] <bigcalm> Hope I remember how to use it
[09:48] <ali1234> i made a new account rather than link my old one
[09:49] <popey> is that because people may discover your internet alter-ego is jef?
[09:49] <ali1234> jef spaleta?
[09:49] <ali1234> (is that how you spell it?)
[09:49] <popey> i think so
[09:50] <ali1234> i like to think i have better grammar
[09:50] <directhex> VB? ._.
[09:50] <popey> hah
[09:50] <bigcalm> directhex: VB
[09:50] <directhex> VB? ._.
[09:51] <bigcalm> directhex: I had to write a socket service for a windows server. VB was the quickest way of doing so. I'm not proud of it
[09:51] <bigcalm> Almost 5 months to the day since I last built it
[09:51] <directhex> VB? ._.
[09:51]  * bigcalm kippers directhex 
[09:52] <bigcalm> Yes, I wanted to do it in PHP, but couldn't get the encryption method to work the same way as the VB version
[09:52] <ali1234> PHP? ._.
[09:52] <bigcalm> Screw you guys, I'm going home
[09:53]  * directhex high-fives ali1234 
[10:04] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:04] <hoover> morning davmor2
[10:05] <popey> directhex, shame unity3d doesn't run on linux as a dev platform, know if they play to port it?
[10:06] <directhex> popey, i reckon it'll depend on customer demand. the code editor already works fine on linux (it's a mildly forked monodevelop), but the main IDE - level editor etc - would need porting
[10:06] <directhex> i assume it's already fairly portable from when they ported to windows from mac
[10:11] <popey> looks neat
[10:16]  * daubers might have a play with Unity3D over lunch
[10:16] <daubers> it's c# isn't it?
[10:16] <directhex> you can write your games in c#, boo, or javascript
[10:16] <popey> i think it supports a number of languages for scripting...
[10:16] <directhex> i assume they have their own javascript to .net compiler
[10:17] <popey> ooh, they have #unity3d
[10:22] <ali1234> no native API?
[10:23] <directhex> ali1234, sure. C# and P/Invoke!
[10:24] <directhex> note: p/invoke may not be available in unity's cut down class library
[10:24] <ali1234> is it easy to wrap C libs for .net?
[10:24] <directhex> pure C? yes
[10:24] <directhex> C++ is hard
[10:24] <AlanBell> popey: fixored :)
[10:25] <popey> how?
[10:25] <AlanBell> I had a /usr/local/lib/libdecoration.so
[10:25] <popey> erk
[10:25] <popey> where did that come from?
[10:25] <AlanBell> well . . .
[10:25] <ali1234> does unity support procedural geometry?
[10:26] <AlanBell> it may have been there quite some time, I was rebuilding compiz with text tracking zoom
[10:26] <popey> plum
[10:26] <ali1234> as in "here's an array of points and triangles, this is my object"
[10:26] <AlanBell> the new version required new symbols which were not in that on
[10:26] <directhex> http://unity3d.com/support/resources/example-projects/procedural-examples ?
[10:27] <ali1234> yeah, none of that appears to do that. i guess what i really need is custom mesh loaders
[10:28] <directhex> http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/ScriptReference/Mesh.html ?
[10:28] <popey> AlanBell, glad its all fixed now and it was down to your incompetence and not ours :D
[10:28] <ali1234> yeah, that's the one
[10:28] <AlanBell> popey: I too am glad of my incompetence
[10:30] <popey> \o/
[10:31] <directhex> popey, ultimately i think there's a *lot* of "testing the water" looking at linux for games right now. pretty much all of it can be attributed to humble bundles, imho.
[10:31] <popey> yeah, i agree
[10:31] <popey> steam porting over helps
[10:32] <bittin^work> i want the beta =(
[10:32] <directhex> so humble bundles convince unity corp to finish their kinda sorta toy linux port, and promise it in unity 4.0; every game kickstarter starts to promise a linux port since it's a 1-click effort when they're already using unity
[10:32] <directhex> steam on linux, plus steam big picture, make for compelling steam set-top-box running linux arguments
[10:33] <directhex> every unity game on steam starts shipping a linux port
[10:33] <directhex> lots and lots of water testing
[10:33] <directhex> oh, and torque3d went MIT a few days ago, mustn't discount that
[10:33] <directhex> torque is the engine in SPAZ from the latest humble bundle
[10:34] <directhex> and also marble blast ultra on 360
[10:35] <popey> 11769 alan      20   0 1866m 149m  23m R  211  1.9   0:46.66 Unity.exe
[10:35] <ali1234> spaz has the worst voice acting i've ever heard in a commercial game
[10:35] <ali1234> it's even worse than the voices in anomaly: warzone earth
[10:35] <davmor2> ali1234: please just for once say you like something just so I know you can
[10:36] <ali1234> and the worst part is you can't skip the talking bits until the guy finishes mumbling through
[10:36] <ali1234> didn't like the game much either
[10:36] <directhex> ali1234, i think it's "totalbiscuit" from youtube
[10:37] <ali1234> i liked the shatter soundtrack
[10:37] <ali1234> and the bosses are fun
[10:38] <directhex> shatter is a nice twist on the breakout formula
[10:38] <directhex> more interesting than the last breakout clone i played, WizOrb
[10:38] <directhex> (a MonoGame game, linux port on desura)
[10:38] <ali1234> all levels except for the bosses can be beaten by holding the right mouse button and waiting :/
[10:41] <popey> directhex, unity3d almost works in wine, barfs during initial setup post-install, trying to copy some demo files about :(
[10:46] <popey> hmm, spotify keeps playing a fraction of the next track in the list, but because I'm in shuffle mode it then stops and leaps to another track
[10:47]  * popey unticks 'gapless playback'
[10:47] <Laney> oh I do love being on hold to virgin media
[10:47] <Dave2> shatter has a default keybinding for a key I don't have
[10:48] <Dave2> and no in-game control remapping
[10:48] <Dave2> that was slightly annoying
[10:48] <davmor2> Laney: is that cause you get to pick your own music?
[10:49] <Laney> I refused to and then I got defaulted to pop
[10:49] <Laney> it sounds hideous on speaker phone
[10:49] <ali1234> Dave2: shatter has a external settings editor
[10:49] <davmor2> Dave2: Shatter uses just he mouse and shift unless there is more further down the line
[10:49] <Dave2> It does, but that's not very useful when you get to the boss and it says "oh use this key to fire loads of bullets"!
[10:50] <Dave2> -!
[10:50] <Dave2> davmor2: it uses more than that
[10:50] <ali1234> it's also the only way to change the screen rez
[10:50] <Dave2> Indeed
[10:50] <Laney> apparently it might take up to 20 minutes
[10:50] <ali1234> for be it runs in a tiny postage stamp with huge black borders. like all the games in this bundle in fact.
[10:50] <ali1234> but they all seem to have different weird ways of changing that
[10:50] <ali1234> so it's at least fixable this time
[10:51] <directhex> ali1234, changing resolution is hard
[10:51] <ali1234> i know right
[10:51] <directhex> on linux anyway
[10:51] <Dave2> for me it ran full-screen at 640x480 on my 1920x1200 24" monitor
[10:51] <ali1234> well changing resolution makes no sense anyway
[10:51] <Dave2> it wasn't very pleasant
[10:51] <ali1234> i hate games that do that
[10:52] <ali1234> yeah same here
[10:52] <ali1234> changing resolution might be hard
[10:52] <Dave2> I thought you said it ran with massive borders. By fullscreen I mean fullscreen.
[10:52] <directhex> ali1234, some people have toy graphics cards, like intel, which can't really cope with minesweeper fullscreen, let alone 3d games
[10:52] <ali1234> detectng the current screen mode is not
[10:52] <ali1234> Dave2: oh you mean it actually changed screen mode?
[10:52] <Dave2> Yes
[10:53] <ali1234> for me it ran at 640x480 on a 1920x1200 screen mode, with borders
[10:53] <ali1234> i don't allow any software to change screen mode on my system, becuase most often it knocks out the second monitor
[10:54] <ali1234> then when it crashes you can't change back
[10:54] <directhex> ctrl-alt-numpadplus
[10:54] <ali1234> that never works, because the games always grab the input devices in raw mode
[10:56] <popey> nikki and the robots changes resolution perfectly
[10:56] <popey> (for me)
[10:56] <ali1234> yeah for me it would just do the same thing
[11:01] <BigRedS> Is there some way I can use gnome-shell's power management config thingy in Unity? I'm assuming they both adjust hte same things in the bowels of gnome3
[11:30] <diplo> blimey popey, spending some pennies on your server :)
[11:31] <popey> yeah, finally decided to upgrade it
[11:31] <popey> had 4x2TB sat in a drawer for too long
[11:31] <diplo> I'd love to do something like that but way out of my price range
[11:31] <popey> since I binned the drobo :)
[11:32] <diplo> Could have donated them :D
[11:32] <diplo> Still waiting for them to drop to the price I bought my previous 2 for
[11:33] <diplo> Want to make mine a 4 disk setup, but if i buy them now it'll cost me 40 pound more, I just don't have that much spare to spend on me :/
[11:47] <knightwise> :)
[11:47] <knightwise> 0/
[12:47] <oimon> popey, did you literally bin the drobo or find a buyer on ebay?
[12:47] <popey> sold it
[12:48] <oimon> good £?
[12:48] <popey> better than nothing
[12:49] <oimon> your HP server is software raid or HW?
[12:57] <popey> btrfs, so neither :)
[12:57] <popey> but software redundancy
[12:57] <directhex> butterfs. because fsck's for wusses!
[12:59] <popey> it has fsck :p
[12:59] <popey> although I neve use it :)
[13:14] <oimon> ahhh that's better. closed enough tabs to actually see the favicons in chrome
[13:28] <davmor2> popey: but how do you cope without the pleasure of watching the raid rebuild?
[13:30] <bootinfdsds> Hi AlanBell, I like your thermal printer thingy post today ... Does anyone have any idea on my Dymo 330 printer post  ( on the same post as yours )
[13:31] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: is it an esc/pos printer?
[13:32] <bootinfdsds> No it is the basic dymo 330 thermal printer , If I found a way to use  in on Ubuntu then I could print out address labels for my letters, and so could everyone.
[13:33] <bootinfdsds> I kinda stuck.
[13:33] <bootinfdsds> **I'm
[13:35] <davmor2> bootinfdsds: did you try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=861781
[13:35] <bootinfdsds> opening...
[13:36] <bootinfdsds> davmor2, Bookmarking .. thank-you.
[13:44] <diplo> Anyone tinker much with Django in here ?
[13:45] <popey> davmor2, there are tools for that too on btrfs :)
[13:45] <diplo> Want to try utilising it, first task is to display all images from a set directory, don't want to add them just display them
[13:47] <davmor2> diplo: there are some really good guide on the main django site, I'm just starting to read through setting up a site with it :)
[13:51] <diplo> yeah set up looks easy, more specifically after a module for the images or whether i write my own
[13:51] <diplo> Might just go for my own, biggest issue I've had with django so far is loads of tutorials, but there aren't many demos of the modules working
[13:51] <diplo> :/
[13:52] <davmor2> diplo: have a look on youtube
[13:52] <diplo> Good point, saw tutorials for install on there but hadn't looked for gallery apps
[13:53] <diplo> Most of the peeps need some help from popey to do tutorials :P
[13:53] <diplo> You using it for anything in particular davmor2 ? Or just learning it ?
[13:54] <davmor2> diplo: just learning it, because it is using python
[13:55] <diplo> You using it inside virtual enviroment package ?
[13:55] <hoover> cheers all
[14:03]  * AlanBell facepalms at bug 1055766
[14:04] <diplo> lol
[14:05] <davmor2> AlanBell: you mean it shouldn't?
[14:06] <einonm> lol...that makes me wonder if there's anything akin to RFC's for ubuntu changes? Or does Canonical simply dictate and respond to any backlash?
[14:07] <AlanBell> that would be what UDS is
[14:07] <AlanBell> and blueprints
[14:07] <einonm> ok, thanks...I will google
[14:08] <davmor2> diplo: No I'm just reading through it at the minute I'll be having a play with it in a LXC to have a play with it
[14:09] <einonm> Hmm..not much there... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=amazon+lens
[14:09] <AlanBell> well no, a feature this small might not have a blueprint all to itself
[14:09] <AlanBell> this is a couple of afternoons work
[14:10] <davmor2> einonm: it might be under webapps
[14:10] <einonm> but an RFC on a kernel mailing list, for example, doesn't depend on work size but potential impact
[14:11] <einonm> davmor2: webapps as part of ubuntu, or is that another site?
[14:11] <einonm> ..part of blueprints, soz
[14:11] <davmor2> webapps blueprint possibly
[14:11] <davmor2> einonm: that or Lens blueprints
[14:12] <einonm> so my search in the TLD for blueprints doesn't find lens or webapps blueprints as well?
[14:14] <AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/onehundredscopes/+spec/ohs-quantal
[14:14] <AlanBell> no shopping there, but really there are hundreds of lenses, Amazon is just a little one that is easy to do
[14:14] <einonm> Thanks. Ooh, adult lens? I say.
[14:14] <AlanBell> yes indeed, I based an OpenERP lens on that one
[14:15] <einonm> does that data get sent back to ubuntu servers as well? ;)
[14:15] <AlanBell> was quite a good framework and I was quite careful to make sure I understood all of it and didn't leave any bits behind
[14:16] <AlanBell> no, with my openERP lens you would point it at the xmlrpc entry point of your local server
[14:17] <davmor2> einonm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses/Ideas
[14:17] <AlanBell> the adult lens I think queried the API of whatever site it was connected to (I never ran it, just read the code)
[14:18] <einonm> AlanBell: sure. I had to google a few terms there, but I get the gist of it.
[14:18] <AlanBell> so yes, if that returned results to the global scope then it would be sending off queries to dodgy places
[14:20] <ali1234> this idea of search aggregation didn't work when it was called web portals and it isn't going to work on the desktop eiher
[14:20] <AlanBell> depends on your success criteria
[14:20] <ali1234> nobody, and i mean absolutely nobody at all, uses google desktop. which is basically the same thing as unity dash, except better
[14:21] <einonm> ali1234: I probably agree. It's like android apps. THe question I always ask is, can this be replaced by a webpage? If so, it's a bit useless
[14:21] <einonm> People understand webpages and trust them (rightly or wrongly). It's not the same with apps
[14:22] <einonm> android apps are sometimes jumped up webpages with too much power over your phone
[14:22] <ali1234> that's far from the only problem
[14:22] <ali1234> putting all the searches in to one place sounds convenient but in the end you just get a cluttered mess
[14:23] <einonm> ..and things happening behind the scenes that you can't control easily
[14:23] <ali1234> it's much easier to refine your search by going to the place where you know the thing you are looking for is
[14:23] <mungojerry> ali1234, i used goog desktop when i used windows (>5 years ago)
[14:24] <ali1234> the difference between unity and traditional desktops is like this
[14:24] <mungojerry> i needed it to search emails in outlook effectively
[14:24] <AlanBell> there is a real architectural problem with unity lenses which allow evil lens writers to scoop up global search queries and do imaginative things with them. Canonical and Amazon are not the ones to be scared of.
[14:24] <ali1234> traditional desktops: you want a pair of shoes so you go to the cupboard and get them
[14:25] <ali1234> unity: you want a pair of shoes so you describe them to a man who goes and looks through your cupboard and finds them. while he's there he also looks at everything else in your cupboard. then he returns with every pair of shoes he found, including all of your wifes. and then he tries to sell you new shoes from amazon
[14:27] <mungojerry> ali1234, more like, ask wife, any there any shoes in the cupboard? she shouts back yes, your favourite ones, the ones you used the other day and your wellies. btw you have holes in your shoes so i think you should get some new ones
[14:27] <pinky-> I've often wondered how much Amazon pay Canonical?
[14:27]  * AlanBell calls the analogy police
[14:27] <AlanBell> pinky-: totally standard affiliate rates
[14:28] <mungojerry> i care so little about this amazon dash shenanigans its untrue
[14:28] <ali1234> yeah that's really the least terrible part of the whole thing
[14:28] <mungojerry> don't use it (not on principle), don't care. might use it one day, still don't care
[14:28] <einonm> It's strange that no one seemed to mind when firefox (and ubuntu?) Have their own google homepages, which has a revenue stream associated, if I'm correct?
[14:28] <ali1234> the worst thing is when the guy comes back with 18 pairs of shoes, none of which were what you actually wanted, and you're like, "no, no, the BROWN ones" but it's like he just doesn't get it
[14:28] <mungojerry> most of the people making the noise are not ubuntu dash users, so should be quiet
[14:29] <ali1234> and he starts coming back with like brown shirts and stuff
[14:29] <AlanBell> the fact that categories in lenses have to be hard coded is annoying
[14:29] <christel> ali1234: lol
[14:29] <ali1234> and you know exactly where the shoes are, but the guy won't let you just go and get them, because he wants to help you so much
[14:29] <mungojerry> ali1234, to be fair, my experience of dash is, type terminal, hit return.
[14:29] <ali1234> so you just get really frustrated with him, even though he's trying really hard to help you
[14:30] <einonm> ali1234: Hopefully not the ones with certain political party emblems on the sleeve
[14:31] <mungojerry> ali1234, it's sort of based on the philosophy of abstracting the file system and app menu so you shouldn't have to care where stuff is.
[14:31] <mungojerry> but my mp3 collection is in folders cos the metadata is a bit shagged
[14:32] <mungojerry> and 20 of the albums seem to show the album cover of some rapper who i've never owned an album of
[14:34] <mungojerry> did anyone make a lens manager to easily turn lenses on and off
[14:35] <SuperEngineer> mungojerry:  - yes
[14:35]  * SuperEngineer checks for location
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> mungojerry: it's called "lens toggle"
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> [via a ppa if a recall correctly]
[14:37] <mungojerry> oh yeah, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-t7-4Olu8VEo/T-HTKPeZulI/AAAAAAAAJJQ/uy0FXU4hOS8/s320/lens-toggle.png
[14:37] <mungojerry> ugly but does the job i guess
[14:38] <AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty one arrives really soon
[14:40] <SuperEngineer> pretty it's not but it works http://ubuntuportal.com/2012/06/lens-toggle-useful-apps-to-enabledisable-unity-lenses.html
[14:40] <SuperEngineer> [same as your piccy]
[14:41] <SuperEngineer> "beware ppa" rules apply ;)
[14:41] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/mockups/unity-settings-panel-applications-dylanmccall-1.png
[14:41] <mungojerry> bit nicer
[14:41] <mungojerry> oh it's a mockup
[14:41] <AlanBell> yes, but a little less real
[14:42] <AlanBell> 15:40 < AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty one arrives really soon
[14:42] <SuperEngineer> but if it gets built - AlanBell's is prettier - and hopefully won't be ppa
[14:42] <AlanBell> not mine
[14:43] <AlanBell> the critical thing is enforcing the show results in dash home thing
[14:43] <SuperEngineer> ok - Mr. AlanBell a.k.a. pendantic, I was trying to compliment your research being better than mine
[14:43]  * SuperEngineer cries
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> *pedantic btw nor pendantic... that would make a good search!
[14:45] <AlanBell> that should be implemented by not doing the callback to the lens on_search_changed function unless you have selected that lens
[14:46] <AlanBell> if it is an optional feature that the lens is supposed to support then it is still a problem
[14:53] <einonm> Going back to my original question, "if there's anything akin to RFC's for ubuntu changes?", I'm assuming the answer to that is a no.
[14:53] <ali1234> no
[14:54] <czajkowski> einonm: no we dont have RFC, we have blueprints
[14:54] <AlanBell> depends what you mean by "akin"
[14:55] <AlanBell> there are blueprints and UDS sessions which plan out the intended work for the cycle
[14:55] <AlanBell> people can get involved at that point and make comments (that kind of is the Request For Comments)
[14:56] <einonm> Principally something that's as open as kernel mailing list RFC's, and allow any interested parties to have a say before acceptance
[14:56] <AlanBell> yes
[14:56] <AlanBell> you totally can
[14:56] <czajkowski> blueprints are open
[14:56] <czajkowski> as is UDS
[14:56] <czajkowski> sessions are streamed live thre is interaction
[14:57] <einonm> I had a look at the blueprints, and have come across a few pages that were forbidden for me to view, and I don't understand how the green 'Approved' status gets added, so I'm feeling a bit sceptical about that ATM. I'll have to read up some more.
[14:57] <AlanBell> I have *no* idea what a kernel RFC is, or where to find one
[14:58] <AlanBell> they can't possibly exist
[14:58] <einonm> No, not like the internet ones - just an email with a patch or idea for discussion, They appear on most of the kernel related mailing lists (look for subject: [RFC].....)
[14:59] <AlanBell> but but I am not on that mailing list, it is a secret from me!
[14:59] <einonm> you can choose to be, or lust look at the public logs of the list. You are being pedantic!
[14:59] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-September/thread.html
[15:00] <ali1234> AlanBell: pretty much every post on that list follows the same format: "this is what we've decided, if you don't like it, tough"
[15:00] <ali1234> same goes for ayatana list
[15:01] <AlanBell> yes, unity-design did get rather broken
[15:01] <ali1234> AlanBell: did you see the recent announcement of the u-turb on grub 2?
[15:01] <directhex> i love u-turbs!
[15:01] <ali1234> neither the original decision nor the change was ever discussed publicly
[15:01] <ali1234> u-turbs!!
[15:01] <einonm> That list looks like a start...more like what I'm used to
[15:02] <AlanBell> ali1234: yes, and I don't disagree with you on that at all
[15:02] <AlanBell> there *are* real problems with stuff arriving undiscussed
[15:02] <einonm> AlanBell: I'm not trying to criticize any ubuntu  methods (yet...!), just curious as to how it works
[15:03] <ali1234> i am
[15:04] <ali1234> the individuals behind ubuntu are good people but when they get together as a group they are extremely insular and will reject any outside influences
[15:05] <popey> completely fair comment
[15:05] <popey> i dont think the last bit is entirely fair though
[15:05] <ali1234> this goes for most groups really, it's just human nature
[15:05] <einonm> ali1234: that's why it's called a community! I'm not too bothered about social characteristics, which can ebb and flow, more the basic mechanisms
[15:05] <popey> many of us to take on board what people say, and bring up external stuff at internal meetings
[15:06] <popey> I know I've brought up comments made in irc public channels in company meetings
[15:06] <ali1234> einonm: "community" means different things to different people
[15:06] <czajkowski> ali1234: I think that's a bit harsh and a bit of an over statement tbh, they do take on feedback
[15:06] <czajkowski> you may not like the fact they don't take on your suggestion, but that doesnt mean it's not listened to either
[15:06] <ali1234> i'm still not sure whether i am a part of the ubuntu community or not
[15:06] <ali1234> it seems like when i agree with what sabdfl says i am a part of the community. and when i disagree, i am not
[15:07] <czajkowski> ali1234: not everyone agrees which is fine, but do you even run unity ? You don't seem to liek much stuff that is done
[15:07] <ali1234> luckily, i've never been the type of person who cares about being accepted by his peers :P
[15:07] <ali1234> czajkowski: yes, actually i ran unity for over a year
[15:07] <ali1234> in that time i reported many many bugs too
[15:08] <ali1234> since that's usually the next question you ask when trying to silence dissent. "have you reported a bug?"
[15:08] <czajkowski> who's trying to silence you
[15:08] <czajkowski> reporting bugs is good
[15:08] <ali1234> you are
[15:09] <ali1234> "do you even run <x>?" is a classic shut-down
[15:09] <czajkowski> I do find some of the bugs people report are their feeling/opinions on things when perhaps they don't know all the facts or are not devs
[15:09] <ali1234> "have you reported a bug?" is another, and "are you using SVN/PPA?" is another
[15:09] <czajkowski> ali1234: no it's a question not a shut down , if you view it that way, perhaps you've engaged with people who maybe don't want to engage
[15:09] <popey> I am disappointed ali1234 doesn't run unity tbh. I value his feedback.
[15:10] <popey> and i remember when ali1234 did run unity, he was quick to file and confirm other peoples bugs too
[15:10] <popey> but I understand why you dont
[15:10] <popey> hey ho
[15:10] <czajkowski> indeed
[15:11] <czajkowski> btw if folks wwant to listen in
[15:11] <popey> I appreciate feedback from people who actually run our stuff and encounter problems
[15:11] <czajkowski> live webinar going on now
[15:11] <czajkowski> http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/54729
[15:11]  * popey points and laughs at czajkowski 
[15:11] <popey> you said "webinar"
[15:11] <czajkowski> :s
[15:11] <xnox> being a bit of a rebel is a trait of our community it includes everyone: lubuntu, kubuntu, gnome remix, whatnot. internally we don't always agree with each other about everything, but to external entities we are simply unstoppable.
[15:11] <czajkowski> they are webinars
[15:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: he's winding you up very easily I might add :)
[15:13] <czajkowski> no was wondering in case I used the wrong word
[15:13] <czajkowski> it's been a long day
[15:14] <mungojerry> is there a way to use "save as.." in gimp rather than "export" to get png/jpeg? muscle memory means i forget every time and it's annoying
[15:14] <popey> disappointed that uncyclopedia doesn't have an entry for webinar
[15:14] <popey> not in latest I don't think
[15:15] <ali1234> get used to it. the new exprt thing is genius
[15:15] <ali1234> it's better than what photoshop does
[15:15] <ali1234> foss actually invented something totally original and actually good. amazing
[15:15] <ali1234> see, i do like change, when it is an improvement
[15:15] <mungojerry> huh? save as used to do the same thing right?
[15:16] <ali1234> not really
[15:17] <ali1234> see you have the native format (xcf, or psd) and then the target format, right?
[15:17] <ali1234> so with the old way it only remembers one of the filenames
[15:17] <ali1234> so you had to save as twice every single time you modified the file
[15:17] <ali1234> with the new way it remembers both filenames/formats
[15:17] <ali1234> so you only have to just do "save", "export" and not change the format every time
[15:18] <ali1234> this only applies if you are making a jpeg, and need to save the source layers in the xcf as well. but that's nearly everyone
[15:18] <ali1234> if you just want to edit a jpeg then there's an "ovrwrite" option that saves over the original file like "save" used to
[15:19]  * popey falls over at ali1234 liking something
[15:19] <ali1234> i thought i would dislike the new way,but when i tried it i found out they actually thought about it ahead and fixed all the problems that i expected
[15:19]  * czajkowski props popey up and hands him a mug of tea to recover
[15:19] <ali1234> i expect to dislike everything though
[15:20] <ali1234> that way i am never disappointed and sometimes i get a nice surprise
[15:22] <einonm> ali1234: That sounds like a glass half empty kind of thinking
[15:22] <ali1234> no
[15:22] <ali1234> i always assume the glass is completely empty
[15:22] <ali1234> until i have evidence to the contrary :)
[15:22] <ali1234> that's not the same thing at all
[15:37] <ali1234> single window mode was a huge let down btw
[15:37] <AlanBell> ali1234: I am actually liking the single window implementation in gimp
[15:37] <ali1234> i was expecting MDI
[15:37] <ali1234> instead i got "you can only view one image at a time"
[15:37] <ali1234> it's really bizarre
[15:37] <AlanBell> ah, OK
[15:38] <ali1234> it's basically like normal gimp but with an arbitrary limitation on opening only one file at a time
[15:38] <AlanBell> and the toolbars dock to the image
[15:38] <AlanBell> you get tabs for the images
[15:39] <Azelphur> Amazon logic, if it don't fit in the box, cut the top off https://www.dropbox.com/s/ase3a2wuxyicnvf/2012-09-25%2016.38.19.jpg?m
[15:39] <Azelphur> xD
[15:39] <AlanBell> I like it, I thought I wouldn't because I have always used gimp
[15:40] <AlanBell> I figured the single window thing was just people who had used photoshop and hated change
[15:40] <AlanBell> but I actually like it
[15:41] <mungojerry> ali1234, the single window mode has cuased me to use gimp probably 3x more
[15:41] <ali1234> no, photoshop users will hate it as much as the old stuff
[15:41] <ali1234> well, photoshop power users, the ones who are always complaining :)
[15:41] <AlanBell> yeah, they will complain anyway
[15:41] <ali1234> i just docked every tool window into one uber-too window, and put that on monitor two
[15:43] <AlanBell> it does mean that Unity's alt-tab switcher has lost the only application that it improved
[15:43] <mungojerry> if i'm pasting something into a fresh new image, i just wanna save as jpeg, but i have to export it
[15:43] <ali1234> like this http://ubuntuone.com/0MvThXD7sYwYbQG96NEAJd
[15:43] <mungojerry> it's not the end of the world but i wanted to change it if poss
[15:43] <ali1234> oh come on U1
[15:43] <mungojerry> ali1234, tell us 3 things that you like :D
[15:44] <ali1234> i like indicators
[15:44] <ali1234> they are a significant improvement to the old tray stuff
[15:44] <ali1234> especially for multiple monitors
[15:45] <ali1234> i quite like notify-osd as well
[15:46] <mungojerry> i meant in life in general
[15:47] <mungojerry> but they can also be some of your top things in life too
[15:47] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/229745 <- gimp setup
[15:48] <mungojerry> i see. but the great thing is you have choice of single or not
[15:49] <mungojerry> not sure if the choice will be there forever...
[15:49] <AlanBell> ali1234: that makes sense, I like the one monster window of tools
[15:49] <ali1234> it stops them from getting spread across multiple desktops
[15:49] <mungojerry> i didn't get into il-2 sturmovik as i'd hoped
[15:49] <ali1234> it doesn't work properly for me
[15:49] <ali1234> just crashes out all the time
[15:50] <mungojerry> oh, no probs in that area
[15:50] <ali1234> seems like a fun game though
[15:50] <mungojerry> jus the plane crashes instead
[15:50] <ali1234> yeah that too
[15:52] <mungojerry> i plugged my ps2 controller via a usb thingy
[15:52] <mungojerry> need to find my tomb raider disks and play that via the emulator sometime
[15:52] <dutchie> i have tomb raider for pc *and* ps1 \o/
[15:52] <dutchie> and a ps1, but that's beside the point
[15:53] <davmor2> mungojerry: steel storm is awesome via a PS3 controller
[15:53] <mungojerry> foolishly i got rid of old stuff thinking i'd nver want to play it again
[15:53] <ali1234> tomb raider was a pretty good game back in the day :)
[15:53] <mungojerry> and TR II
[15:53] <ali1234> not sure if i played 2 or 3
[15:53] <ali1234> probably 2
[15:54] <davmor2> ali1234: shadowman was better gfx for a game the same age
[15:54] <mungojerry> 2 had venice at the beggining
[15:54] <ali1234> which was the one where you are running around in a diving suit with a harpoon gun?
[15:54] <mungojerry> TR 1 & 2 are some of the few games i ever completed since coming of age
[15:55] <dutchie> i have TR 1 to 4 on pc :D
[15:55] <dutchie> i don't think i have actually cleared a single level on them though
[15:55] <mungojerry> :O
[15:55] <mungojerry> i remember the graphics on TR1 were awesome at the time
[15:55] <mungojerry> when the camera pulled out for a wide shot of a cool scene
[15:56] <ali1234> tomb raider was good, but ocarina of time was the best 3d platform puzzle game
[15:56] <dutchie> reading from the back of the box: "Over 5,000 frames of animation on the main character, Lara, alone"
[15:56] <mungojerry> reminds me i haven't completed the most recent zelda
[15:56] <mungojerry> stopped playing at one boring bit
[15:56] <dutchie> the system requirements are great
[15:56] <ali1234> i gave up on twilight princess for same reason
[15:56] <mungojerry> yeah the stupid wolf bit was boring
[15:57] <mungojerry> the newer one is better though
[15:57] <mungojerry> less wolfy stuff and running aimlessly
[15:57] <ali1234> yeah. and also they massively increased the "hints" from the fairy/whatever that thing was supposed to be
[15:57] <mungojerry> i just wanna play and enjoy
[15:57] <ali1234> and the quicktime events
[15:57] <mungojerry> not waste 3 hrs running around looking for something i've missed
[15:58] <ali1234> yeah the wolf bits were just "go collect 30 rat tails"
[15:58] <ali1234> boring grind to make the game longer and no puzzles
[15:58] <ali1234> it's all about the puzzles!
[15:58] <mungojerry> i wonder why i stopped playing the precursor to skyrim
[15:58] <mungojerry> what is it called?
[15:58] <ali1234> oblivion
[15:58] <mungojerry> yeah
[15:58] <ali1234> i played that for a couple of hours
[15:58] <mungojerry> quite fun, but onl;y played it while waiting for zelda
[15:58] <ali1234> the thing is though it's all random
[15:59] <ali1234> and when it's all random... it's all different. but at the same time, it's all exactly the same
[15:59] <ali1234> there's no cleverly thought out puzzles
[15:59] <ali1234> just the same rooms in a different order
[15:59] <czajkowski> BigRedS: oi see over there -->
[15:59] <ali1234> and combined with the way the level scaling works... just got boring after a bit
[15:59] <ali1234> same grind with bigger numbers
[16:00] <mungojerry> i got a bit confused at the oblivion fgate bit
[16:00] <mungojerry> then bored
[16:00] <danno_> can anyone tell me why programs that are running are no longer appearing in the taskbar
[16:00] <mungojerry> i don't like playing in a room on my own either
[16:00] <ali1234> i think i played up to where you go into that guy's mansion with the burning skeleton dudes
[16:00] <mungojerry> danno_, which programs?
[16:01] <ali1234> danno_: are you still using lubuntu?
[16:02] <danno_> yeah i am
[16:02] <ali1234> that kind of makes a big difference
[16:03] <ali1234> you'll need to find some other lubuntu users. i gather they are quite rare...
[16:03] <mungojerry> i was on lubuntu till last 2months ago
[16:03] <ali1234> if the taskbar thing crashes and restarts and "loses" all the apps, that's a bug
[16:03] <mungojerry> my wife just called me fatty by mistake...she said it was swype's fault
[16:03] <ali1234> that's one way it could have happened
[16:05] <SuperEngineer> mungojerry: worried about about your "i don't like playing in a room on my own either" comment.. is there something you need to confess?
[16:05] <ali1234> danno_: screenshots might help us diagnose it
[16:06] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: that is the wrong comment just below mine ;)
[16:06] <mungojerry> SuperEngineer, i meant the desktop pc with the graphics card is in a study....prefer to spend leisure time in my wifes company
[16:06] <mungojerry> lol
[16:06] <mungojerry> right, off home, nice food on the table i hope
[16:09] <SuperEngineer> mungojerry: enjoy
[16:10] <danno_> ill sort one out, 2 minutes
[16:13] <Azelphur> popey: that ink set didn't come with a black bottle :(
[16:13] <Azelphur> was red yellow blue and "cleaning fluid" lol
[16:13] <popey> mine did
[16:13] <popey> must have been a different set
[16:13] <Azelphur> fun
[16:13] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:13] <popey> "oops"
[16:14] <Azelphur> I refilled the color cartridge but it won't print color at all, not sure if all the cartridges have to be done
[16:14] <Azelphur> I printed solid RGB bars and got nothing
[16:14] <ali1234> CMYK
[16:15] <ali1234> K= black
[16:15] <ali1234> i dunno why they call it K. probably to distinguish it from blue?
[16:15] <mgdm> I believe so
[16:16] <mgdm> I think they use a Latin word for it
[16:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: does that translate to yes I need black to get it to do anything :P
[16:16] <mgdm> actually, no - K is for 'key' -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYMK
[16:17] <hamitron> mgdm, beat me to it, to look all clever
[16:17] <hamitron> ;)
[16:17] <ali1234> Azelphur: no it means printing RGB bars to test ink levels is a fail :)
[16:17] <ali1234> since none of those are actual ink colours
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: however, cymk might not be enough either
[16:17] <Azelphur> ali1234: I don't even know if it's an ink issue really, it just started printing blank pages one day
[16:17] <ali1234> maybe not but it will be a LOT closer
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've seen printers with _2_ sets of cymk + extra black
[16:18] <Azelphur> feel free to suggest useful things :P
[16:18] <colin_> hey
[16:18] <ali1234> well for all colours to run out simultaneously is very suspicious
[16:18] <hamitron> buy a new printer?
[16:18] <popey> ho
[16:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> Get a laser printer :) Toner cartridges last forver.
[16:18] <ali1234> yeah laser printers are the bomb
[16:18] <hamitron> ohhhh, reminds me, need a new toner
[16:18] <hamitron> :/
[16:18] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've had this for like 2 years, and I got it second hand
[16:18] <colin_> so, I need to upgrade to 12 because I'm concerned about security patches just stopping.
[16:19] <colin_> the machine is a server, on the internet
[16:19] <popey> colin_, what version you currently on?
[16:19] <colin_> but also a workstation
[16:19] <colin_> 10.04
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Inkjets aren't worth it if you print (a) a lot or (b) once a year
[16:19] <popey> they wont stop for a while colin_
[16:19] <ali1234> but you don't just need to refill toner in a laser
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in case (a), ink will bankrupt you
[16:19] <colin_> so first, (given it's technically a desktop install) when will the patches stop coming?
[16:19] <ali1234> you have to maintain the photo roller thingy too
[16:19] <colin_> ok, well anyway
[16:19] <popey> colin_, April 2013 on desktop, April 2015 on server
[16:19] <colin_> in terms of update
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in (b) the ink will dry out, so you'll go bankrupt buying ink ANYWAY
[16:20] <ali1234> yep ^ it's true
[16:20] <Azelphur> lol
[16:20] <colin_> the way my system works is this: there are siz disks in software raid 10
[16:20] <colin_> six
[16:20] <Azelphur> so what's a cheap laser printer/scanner for someone who prints once a year?
[16:20] <colin_> each has a raid 5 partition at the front that has a boot partition
[16:20] <colin_> it works very well
[16:20] <popey> nice
[16:20] <ali1234> Azelphur: don't go combo
[16:20] <hamitron> a friends printer
[16:20] <hamitron> ;)
[16:21] <colin_> but, hwta the hell is likely to happen to me if i press "upgrade"
[16:21] <ali1234> my scanner from 15 years ago still works fine
[16:21] <popey> colin_, should "just work" :D
[16:21] <Azelphur> this is starting to sound expensive already
[16:21] <colin_> well
[16:21] <colin_> ok
[16:21] <popey> colin_, if you go from 10.04 to 12.04, that's supported
[16:21] <ali1234> scanners are cheeeeeaaaaaap
[16:21] <Azelphur> come to #ubuntu asking for help with printer -> buy new printer
[16:21] <Azelphur> xD
[16:21] <colin_> even with my odd raid set up?
[16:21] <hamitron> I'd personally get a really cheap epson
[16:21] <Azelphur> and buy new scanner too
[16:21] <popey> yes
[16:21] <Azelphur> lol
[16:21] <hamitron> inkjet
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: something like the CP1525n ? (I have its older cousin, the CP1515n)
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Ethernet, postscript, colour laser
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> €200 in .nl
[16:22] <colin_> popz?
[16:22] <davmor2> colin_: backup first mind
[16:22] <colin_> obviously thanks for that
[16:22] <colin_> :-P
[16:22] <ali1234> 10.04 to 12.04 has that funky font bug though :)
[16:22] <popey> np
[16:22] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: there's no way that will ever save me money
[16:22] <Azelphur> I paid £15 for my current printer
[16:22] <ali1234> doesn't seem to hurt anything though
[16:22] <popey> true
[16:23] <davmor2> colin_: It's always worth reiterating and not assuming
[16:23] <popey> colin_, at the very end of the upgrade you might get a dialog box full of squares
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it'll work for 20 years
[16:23] <popey> colin_, both ali1234 and I saw it, i moved the dialog to the side and it all carried on fine
[16:23] <colin_> yeah thanks dav, popey what are consequences of squares?
[16:23] <ali1234> i pressed the button that was obviously "OK"
[16:23] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: assuming it works for 20 years, I could buy a whole new printer of the current printer I have once a year, and come off about the same price wise.
[16:24] <ali1234> the firefox i had open in the background also did the same thing on all webpages and menus and stuff so i just closed it
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but without the jamming, crapping out, and ink cost
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: i.e. a lot less hassle :)
[16:24] <Azelphur> I've never had it jam, I havn't refilled the ink in 2 years (and I got it used)
[16:24] <ali1234> and buying a new printer every year
[16:24] <colin_> ok, as dav said it's worth re-iteratnig: this , you think, will "just work" with my raid5 and raid10 partitions?
[16:24] <Azelphur> I'd prefer to try and fix what I have rather than fork out 200 euros for a new printer
[16:24] <ali1234> Azelphur: do a reset on the internal memory then
[16:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: how do I do that? :D
[16:25] <ali1234> printers have lots of internal counters like "user has printed 3000 pages"
[16:25] <Azelphur> xD
[16:25] <ali1234> so the carts are rated for X pages and theprinter will just give up after that, even if they are not empty
[16:25] <ali1234> reseting it depends on printer model
[16:25] <Azelphur> fun
[16:25] <ali1234> so, what model is it?
[16:25] <Azelphur> HP Deskjet F4180
[16:26] <ali1234> basically google "<model> reset ink counter"
[16:26] <ali1234> plenty of hits on google for that model
[16:27] <ali1234> you might need to futz with windows software though
[16:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: not so much, most of them are for the wrong printer or say "do not work on F4180" XD
[16:27] <ali1234> yeah well you have to account for people who just fail to follow the instructions and then post "does not work"
[16:28] <popey> colin_, yeah, should be fine,
[16:29] <colin_> well...ok will I still get updates for 10.04 for another years or so? Obviously I'd rather not mess with a perfectly good, stable system
[16:29] <popey> yeah
[16:29] <Azelphur> think I found one
[16:29] <colin_> ok nice cya
[16:29] <Azelphur> involves putting tape over the contacts :P
[16:29] <ali1234> haha, yeah, that's one way
[16:29] <popey> install fedora 17 in a virtual machine its so painfully slow
[16:30] <ali1234> if it's reading from a chip on the cartridge, those can often be rewritten with some little arduino code
[16:30] <ali1234> usually they are TWI/I2C/SPI or something
[16:30] <ali1234> ie they are just a 16 byte eeprom
[16:31] <ali1234> there's an alternative method in the comments on the tape page
[16:31] <Azelphur> I'm looking at a youtube video
[16:31] <ali1234> hold on + cancel and then plug in power
[16:31]  * Azelphur tries
[16:31] <ali1234> hold until it stops blinking
[16:31] <davmor2> colin_: IIRC I think the squares is because it is still running an app that is pointing at an older version of the fonts/python/gtk and so at the end those nolonger exist
[16:33] <colin_> davmor2 if that is the only issue I will be truly blessed. It's a sensibly maintained system, with complied sources, proprietary binaries all on a separate tree. maybe it'll work. mainly the MDraid was my concern
[16:33] <Azelphur> I think we confused it now lol
[16:34] <Azelphur> I did that, and now it seems to be powered on, but ignoring my print job
[16:34] <Azelphur> ah, there it goes
[16:34] <Azelphur> and nope, still blank page
[16:34] <popey> colin_, the mdraid is probably the least of your worries
[16:35] <ali1234> Azelphur: key combo might differ on different models
[16:35] <Azelphur> it does seem to make it do something when I do that
[16:35] <popey> Azelphur, does the head go back and forth like its printing?
[16:35] <popey> or just spit out a blank page
[16:35] <Azelphur> popey: yea
[16:35] <colin_> popey , well then my position is likely good. Of course it won't work, but you never know. thnx
[16:36] <ali1234> might be broken. do the carts still read empty?
[16:36] <Azelphur> ali1234: no, they both stopped reading empty when I refilled color
[16:36] <Azelphur> originally it marked them both as empty
[16:36] <ali1234> hmm
[16:36] <ali1234> just buy a new printer
[16:37] <Azelphur> \o/ for 200 euros
[16:37] <pinky-> from Amazon
[16:37] <Azelphur> oh hey now it's saying it's out of ink again
[16:37] <Azelphur> gonna try the contacts thing I guess
[17:03] <Azelphur> no luck :(
[17:17] <czajkowski> pinky-: via the dash :p
[17:18] <pinky-> dish dash dosh
[17:22] <popey> directhex, seen another game has been added to the bundle... wizorb
[17:22] <popey> $ grep exe /usr/share/applications/wizorb.desktop
[17:22] <popey> Exec=mono /opt/wizorb/Wizorb.exe
[17:23] <popey> FWIW I just started it and it opened full screen on my external monitor, perfectly fine
[17:27] <pinky-> czajkowski, meaning flash the cash from the dash
[17:30] <ali1234> directhex: isn't that the game you said was "not as good as shutter" yesterday?
[17:30] <directhex> yeah. it's a different take on breakout clonery
[17:30] <ali1234> looks more traditional
[17:31] <ali1234> and yeah, mono games seem to do fullscreen right on my system
[17:31] <ali1234> so that's good
[17:31] <ali1234> bastion is the only one that hasn't needed me to do weird stuff and "just worked"
[17:31] <ali1234> so far
[17:31] <ali1234> the only thing i don't like is it grabs the mouse pointer
[17:31] <ali1234> but all SDL games do that too
[17:35] <directhex> well they *are* sdl games really
[17:36] <ali1234> yeah SDL mostly works correctly too, once i figured out that setting SDL_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY globally in the environment was a great idea
[17:36] <directhex> as per libtaoframework-sdl1.2-cil
[17:36] <ali1234> SDL_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=1 should really be the default
[17:37] <ali1234> so how come all these developers that constantly complained about how much SDL sucks and how hard to use it was...
[17:37] <ali1234> how come they all love it now it's called monogame?
[17:45] <directhex> monogame abstracts at a higher level. it's not sdl on windows
[17:45] <ali1234> fair enough
[17:45] <directhex> or xbox. and i assume not on ios but iu'd have to read the code
[17:46] <ali1234> sdl was always a bad clone of direct x anyway, to be fair
[17:46] <ali1234> and by direct x i mean direct draw
[17:47] <ali1234> they probably don't have direct draw any more but they must have replaced it with something
[17:47] <directhex> "DirectDraw has been deprecated since version 7 but is still included with DirectX, although updates are no longer made. Developers have been instructed to use textured quads in Direct3D for 2D graphics."
[17:48] <ali1234> heh
[17:48] <directhex> makes sense tbh
[17:48] <ali1234> yeah that's what most people have been doing with SDL for the past 6-7 years
[17:49] <ali1234> just use it to open the window and the use opengl
[17:50] <ali1234> what's this i hear about nvidia getting improved xrandr support?
[17:52] <hamitron> could you dev for wp7 and port it using monogame?
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah, in theory
[17:52] <ali1234> that's kind of the point
[17:52] <hamitron> I may have to look into it
[17:53] <ali1234> there's plenty of other cross platform options
[17:53] <ali1234> it really depends what type of game you wanna make tbh
[17:54] <hamitron> I never minded SDL tbh
[17:54] <ali1234> SDL is great if you want to make a 2D shmup
[17:54] <directhex> hamitron: that's the main use case, i think. one of the main companies doing monogame development is a wp7 game company
[17:55] <ali1234> it's far from the best choice if you want to make a FPS though (assuming you don't want to write the whole 3d engine from scratch)
[17:56] <hamitron> ali1234, if I was looking to target wp7 it may be a good choice though
[17:56] <ali1234> monogame or SDL?
[17:56] <hamitron> monogame
[17:56] <ali1234> oh windows phone
[17:56] <ali1234> yeah...
[17:56] <ali1234> not so much choice there
[17:57] <hamitron> tbh, not got any plans.... if I was to just do something for linux, I'd use SDL
[17:58] <directhex> wp7 forces your hand really
[17:58] <ali1234> wp7 is not something i'd care about developing software for
[17:58] <ali1234> it occured to me the other day
[17:58] <directhex> or skip it since it has no users
[17:58] <ali1234> you were asking for humble bundle for wp7
[17:58] <directhex> i'm not sure how many extra options wp8 will have, real-world
[17:58] <ali1234> this can never happen as wp7 does not allow side loading
[17:59] <hamitron> did a new version of SDL ever come out with support for game controllers?
[17:59] <ali1234> humble bundle on android... you have to side load
[17:59] <ali1234> by "side load" i mean "not use the app store"
[17:59] <directhex> hamitron: sdl 2.0!
[17:59] <hamitron> it is out?
[17:59] <ali1234> sdl 2.0 isn't out yet
[18:00] <hamitron> when I last read up on it, 1.2 was stable, and 1.3 added it but was not complete
[18:00] <ali1234> 1.3 is now called 2.0
[18:00] <ali1234> nothing else changed
[18:00] <hamitron> ok
[18:01] <hamitron> ali1234, what does your racing game use?
[18:01] <ali1234> ogre3d and OIS
[18:01] <directhex> torque is Free now
[18:01] <ali1234> but really all it needs is a scene graph and vector math library
[18:01] <directhex> dunno if it has a linux port yet
[18:01] <ali1234> everything else is written from scratch
[18:02] <hamitron> any plans to support force feedback devices?
[18:02] <ali1234> me?
[18:02] <hamitron> yeh
[18:02] <ali1234> sure, why not
[18:02] <ali1234> OIS claims to suppor them but it doesn't work with my xbox controler
[18:02] <ali1234> OIS is kind of crappy though
[18:02] <ali1234> but, it's still better than anything else on linux
[18:03] <hamitron> ff wheels were working in SDL 1.3
[18:03] <hamitron> iirc
[18:03] <ali1234> next version is supposed to be able to get the text names of the axes of the joystick
[18:03] <ali1234> i really need that for config. but next version has been in the works for years...
[18:04] <ali1234> and besides, sound is much higher on my todo list than force feedback
[18:04] <hamitron> oh yeh, ofc
[18:04] <ali1234> and also "game menus"
[18:05] <hamitron> command line arguments will do
[18:05] <hamitron> ;)
[18:05] <ali1234> loading up te game and being dumped on to an endless race is not really much of a game
[18:05] <ali1234> also i need to totally rewrite the physics, especially the flight physics which are totally awful
[18:05] <hamitron> is it a server and client type model?
[18:05] <ali1234> did i mention there is a demo you can try?
[18:06] <ali1234> heck no
[18:06] <ali1234> you fly at 2000 km/s
[18:06] <hamitron> km/h?
[18:06] <ali1234> oops yeah
[18:07] <AlanBell> did someone break alt-prtscr again?
[18:07] <hamitron> I needed a new pair of pants at the thought
[18:07] <hamitron> ;/
[18:07] <ali1234> any point being, 20ms ping = error of... quite a large distance
[18:07] <AlanBell> in quantal
[18:08] <ali1234> it's like... 10m
[18:08] <hamitron> but you have to have multiplayer!
[18:08] <hamitron> :/
[18:09] <ali1234> sure... multiplayer split screen
[18:09] <hamitron> no no :( 40 players online ;)
[18:10] <hamitron> I can see the issue though
[18:10] <ali1234> i will make network play
[18:10] <ali1234> it will be lan only though
[18:11] <ali1234> if you can connect two lans with a tunnel and get ping <5ms, then you can play that way too
[18:11] <hamitron> heh
[18:11] <ali1234> well, you can try to play with higher ping, but you won't enjoy it
[18:11] <hamitron> "no problem" ;/
[18:11] <ali1234> demo: http://ubuntuone.com/5uweM7aLkMLiKSSvMnP4nH
[18:12] <ali1234> replace exe with this update: http://ubuntuone.com/0zDlBMUOEfQ22n0r5Ng5gQ
[18:12] <hamitron> what are requirements?
[18:12] <ali1234> you need nvidia or ati graphics proprietary driver
[18:12] <hamitron> OS?
[18:12] <ali1234> at least geforce 6
[18:13] <ali1234> ubuntu 12.04
[18:13] <ali1234> you need to install libogre and libois
[18:13] <hamitron> I'm lacking the OS too
[18:13] <ali1234> you need a joystick with 6 axis
[18:13] <hamitron> 6!
[18:13] <ali1234> ie game pad with (analog) shoulder triggers
[18:14] <ali1234> it only uses 4 axis
[18:14] <ali1234> 0, 1, 2, and 5
[18:14] <ali1234> because it is hardcoded for xbox and that's how it is layed out
[18:14] <ali1234> this is another thing i need to fix: joystick config. i think i already mentioned why i haven't yet
[18:14] <hamitron> yeh
[18:14] <hamitron> need keyboard support too
[18:14] <hamitron> ;)
[18:15] <ali1234> cannot be played with keyboard, sorry
[18:15] <ali1234> download mupen-64 and f-zero x and try to play it with keyboard
[18:15] <ali1234> you won;t beat the second GP
[18:15] <hamitron> I got a t.16000m joystick anyway
[18:16] <hamitron> although, maybe best to borrow sisters xbox 360 controller
[18:16] <ali1234> 360 controller should work
[18:17] <ali1234> button mapping will be a bit different
[18:17] <ali1234> but axes will be correct
[18:18] <Azelphur> hmm, so there's this fancy device I see called a LagBuster, which is basically QoS but it auto detects your bandwidth on the fly, so you won't lag due to normal fluctuations in bandwidth availability most ISPs have, Anyone know how to make DD-WRT do this? XD
[18:18] <ali1234> yeah
[18:19] <ali1234> same way you do it on any linux box :P
[18:19] <Azelphur> hi captain vague
[18:19] <Azelphur> :p
[18:19] <ali1234> actually this netgear router has this feature
[18:19] <ali1234> but it has a problem
[18:19] <ali1234> it detects bandwidth and then limits upstream to that amount
[18:19] <ali1234> but upstream bandwidth is not actually achieveable in practice
[18:20] <ali1234> so it's completely useless and doesn't work at all
[18:20] <Azelphur> yea, and then never checks again until you reboot it
[18:20] <ali1234> and you can't override the autodetect
[18:20] <ali1234> no, it checks constantly
[18:20] <Azelphur> o.O
[18:20] <ali1234> but always sets it slightly too high, so it has no effect
[18:20] <Azelphur> haha
[18:20] <Azelphur> so hows it actually done?
[18:20] <Azelphur> I mean, I wouldn't think you could just speedtest.net all the time
[18:20] <ali1234> on the netgear it is done with proprietary kernel modules, so i can't even fix it
[18:20] <Azelphur> xD
[18:20] <ali1234> oh, it just looks at the training speed of the DSL modem
[18:21] <Azelphur> ah I see
[18:21] <hamitron> sounds stupid putting an extra bottleneck there to me
[18:21] <ali1234> it works because it eliminates buffer bloat
[18:21] <ali1234> so it reduces lag at the cost of a tiny amount of bandwidt
[18:21] <Azelphur> so the training speed on a modem is reasonably accurate? I wonder how I could read that xD
[18:21] <ali1234> it's accurate sure
[18:22] <ali1234> but the problem is it's impossible to actually get that speed
[18:22] <Azelphur> o.O
[18:22] <ali1234> like you won't even get 100MB per second on a 100MB ethernet
[18:22] <ali1234> you'll get 99.9
[18:23] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:24] <Azelphur> yea, I'm not getting anywhere near what my router is reporting
[18:24] <Azelphur> my router says 14.8/0.7 and I'm actually getting 11.12/0.39
[18:24] <ali1234> yeah
[18:24] <ali1234> it shouldn't change much
[18:24] <ali1234> you are fine setting a fixed value
[18:24] <Azelphur> it does, mine can go all the way down to 2 at congested periods
[18:24] <ali1234> having it auto detect is not worth the effort
[18:25] <ali1234> then your ISp sucks
[18:25] <Azelphur> auto detect is the reason I'm not using QoS at all
[18:25] <Azelphur> because without auto detect on a normal home connection, it's useless due to contention
[18:25] <Azelphur> the bandwidth changes too much
[18:25] <ali1234> you should only be using it on your uplink
[18:25] <hamitron> mine is consistent.... just not good any of the time ;)
[18:25] <ali1234> uplink is never cngested
[18:26] <Azelphur> heck, I just did 2 rests in a row and got 10.57 on one and 11.15 on the next, that's a big enough difference
[18:26] <Azelphur> and 0.36 up then 0.4 up
[18:26] <ali1234> if latency is important to you set the limit to 0.3
[18:26] <Azelphur> both latency and download/upload speed are important  :)
[18:27] <Azelphur> it's gotta be possible to do it, because this lagbuster device is doing it
[18:27] <ali1234> no, it's just claiming to do it
[18:27] <ali1234> the glass is probably empty
[18:27] <Azelphur> true xD
[18:27] <Azelphur> they do state very clearly that it has "real time bandwidth monitoring"
[18:27] <hamitron> 1.4
[18:27] <hamitron> :/
[18:28] <popey> pip pip
[18:28]  * hamitron runs
[18:29] <ali1234> so yeah. variance in your uplink speed is probably caused by the very buffers you are trying to avoid
[18:29] <ali1234> so the rate limit needs to be carefully tuned. but once you;'ve done that you never need to touch it again
[18:30] <ali1234> this lagbuster thing is snake oil
[18:31]  * Azelphur shrugs
[18:32] <ali1234> fwiw netgear claims this router is dual core. it might be dual core hardware but the kernel does not have SMP support
[18:35] <hamitron> heh
[18:35] <hamitron> I like my wrt54gl
[18:36] <hamitron> damn it ali1234
[18:36] <hamitron> I'm tempted to install 12.04 specially to try your game
[18:36] <hamitron> :/
[18:36] <ali1234> why u not use 12.04 already?
[18:37] <hamitron> running windows 7 on my x86 rig
[18:37] <hamitron> then linux on my r-pi
[18:37] <hamitron> :)
[18:37] <ali1234> seriously just get f-zero x if you haven't already played it. it's actually a proper game
[18:37] <ali1234> and it's much better than my efforts at this poit
[18:38] <hamitron> well, was wanting to look at your efforts more than get a game really
[18:38] <hamitron> :)
[18:38] <hamitron> I got F1 2012 for a real game
[18:39] <ali1234> f zero x is better
[18:39] <hamitron> :-o
[18:39] <ali1234> the only better racing game is f-zero gx but you need like a i7 5GHz to emulate that
[18:40] <ali1234> if you have not played this game... you have not played what is certainly one of the best racing games ever made
[18:40] <ali1234> maybe you won;t like it as much as F1 whatever, but still
[18:40] <hamitron> I got f-zero on my snes
[18:40] <ali1234> yeah... n64 version is miles better
[18:40] <ali1234> and gamecube version is miles better as well
[18:41] <hamitron> kk, shame it isn't on xbox 360
[18:41] <hamitron> :/
[18:41] <ali1234> it's on wii virtual console
[18:41] <hamitron> I mean a proper console
[18:41] <hamitron> ;/
[18:41] <hamitron> or ps3, as I am tempted to get one just for DUST 514
[18:42] <ali1234> LOL
[19:10] <ali1234> "sea foam"
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> foam party oop norf!
[19:11] <ali1234> lol
[19:11] <ali1234> seriously though what is that stuff
[19:12] <AlanBell> plancton poo
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> yum!
[19:12] <ali1234> i love this quote
[19:12] <ali1234> "The foam is a natural product and we wouldn't anticipate any health concerns."
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> Because natural products are all good for you!
[19:13] <AlanBell> because nothing natural can be harmful
[19:13] <ali1234> because everything natural is completely safe right?
[19:13] <AlanBell> lol
[19:13] <ali1234> like cobras
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> and Australian spiders
[19:13] <AlanBell> "The foam is a natural product and we wouldn't anticipate any health concerns that we can be sued for."
[19:13] <davmor2> and daffodils
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: daffodils are bad now?
[19:14] <ali1234> i know a guy who ate daffodils
[19:15] <ali1234> the doctors say he'll be out in the spring
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ...
[19:17] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeap they are toxic particularly the bulbs
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I don't eat flowers usually though
[19:23] <Azelphur> popey: refilled the black ink as well now, but still no luck :(
[19:23] <ali1234> what did you refill it with??
[19:24] <Azelphur> my dad had a bottle for his printer
[19:24] <Azelphur> looks exactly the same as my current bottles, I'd imagine it's from the same manufacturer
[19:24] <ali1234> the cartridges don't usually have sensors in them so it won't know you've refilled it
[19:24] <ali1234> also they could be dried up
[19:25] <ali1234> and therefore blocked
[19:25] <ali1234> the print head that is
[19:25] <Azelphur> that's possible
[19:25] <Azelphur> any idea how to fix that
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> that's hard
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> easiest is to buy new carts
[19:25] <ali1234> yeah, do the cleaning cycle. if that doesn't work, figure out what type of solvent to use, and apply a very small amount to the print head
[19:26] <ali1234> though again, going from working fine to nothing at all over night is highly unusual
[19:26] <Azelphur> ali1234: my ink set came with liquide nettoyant cleaning fluid
[19:26] <ali1234> yeah use that then
[19:26] <Azelphur> it did go a bet faint before it died
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> "liquide nettoyant" is just French for "cleaning fluid"
[19:26] <Azelphur> the blacks were light greyish, as if it was running out of ink
[19:27] <Azelphur> fun
[19:27] <ali1234> it's probably acetone
[19:27] <Azelphur> I have a bottle of acetone for getting thermal paste off too
[19:28] <ali1234> acetone or ethanol or pentanol
[19:28] <Azelphur> to run a cleaning cycle it looks like I need Windows
[19:28] <ali1234> virtualbox
[19:28] <ali1234> you can usually do it with a key combo as well though
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> most printers can do that from the front panel as well
[19:29]  * Azelphur grabs the manual
[19:30]  * MartijnVdS recommends the googles
[19:30] <Azelphur> couldn't find anything on google
[19:30] <Azelphur> it's a really old printer
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: type?
[19:30] <Azelphur> HP Deskjet F4180
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hp-clean :)
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: on your Ubuntu machine
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> hp-clean -u
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> for the GUI
[19:31] <Azelphur> oO
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> oh that's default
[19:31] <Azelphur> I got a gui anyway, yea it's default
[19:31] <Azelphur> it's cleaning \o/
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> yay hplip :)
[19:31]  * Azelphur crosses fingers
[19:32] <ali1234> cleaning cycle just dumps a huge amount of ink through the head into a sponge inside the printer
[19:32] <ali1234> it usually fills most of the inside of the printer
[19:32] <ali1234> if you ever open up a inkjet you will find this is the messiest thing ever
[19:32] <Azelphur> cleaning level 1, blank page lol
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> especially if the inkjet is several years old
[19:33] <ali1234> must worse than waste toner cartridge...
[19:33] <ali1234> at least that stuff is dry
[19:34] <Azelphur> level 2, blank page
[19:35] <Azelphur> I put 5ml of ink in each cartridge btw
[19:35] <Azelphur> just in case that isn't enough
[19:35] <ali1234> i dunno
[19:35] <Azelphur> this video I watched said 5
[19:35] <czajkowski> Laney: you alive
[19:35] <Azelphur> yay, level 3 blank page
[19:35] <ali1234> smetimes the carts have like a weird spiral inside
[19:36] <ali1234> so you have to fill them, and then roll them around to get the ink through it
[19:36] <Laney> czajkowski: HOWDY!
[19:36] <czajkowski> Laney: you on 12.10
[19:36] <oimon> guys, what's the "ubuntu" way to build a package from something i've apt-get sourced?
[19:36] <oimon> (and patched)
[19:36] <Laney> I'm watching the bake off, so you better be resplendent :P
[19:36] <Laney> yes
[19:36] <ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.techtangerine.com/wp-content/gallery/cartridges/t088320-magenta-cartridge.jpg
[19:37] <ali1234> like that
[19:37] <czajkowski> Laney: if you close your lid and then re open it
[19:37] <czajkowski> what happens
[19:37] <Laney> works fine
[19:37] <ali1234> as you can imagine, air pockets get stuck inside
[19:37] <Laney> I do it all the time
[19:37] <oimon> Laney: missis is watching it, i must not speak during 8-9 on tuesdays
[19:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: lol fun
[19:37] <czajkowski> Laney: bugger
[19:37] <Laney> what do you get?
[19:37] <Azelphur> think I'll try cleaning, so I just clean the bottom of the cartridge where the silver part is
[19:37] <Azelphur> with a cloth and the cleaning fluid?
[19:38] <ali1234> no cloths
[19:38] <czajkowski> Laney: it wont wont give me the login screen
[19:38] <oimon> since you're all chatty tonight, anyone fancy helping with my question?
[19:38] <Azelphur> o.O
[19:38] <czajkowski> just black screen
[19:38] <czajkowski> and I can see the mouse
[19:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: what then?
[19:38] <ali1234> put a tiny drop onto the print head and just let it sit
[19:38] <Laney> hmm
[19:38] <Laney> do you have intel graphics?
[19:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: ah ok
[19:38] <ali1234> dont rub it with a cloth
[19:38] <czajkowski> Laney: bah never remember the command
[19:38] <ali1234> you'll get fibres stuck in it
[19:38] <czajkowski> lsw ?
[19:39] <ali1234> give the cartidges a shake too
[19:39] <ali1234> might clear out air pockets
[19:39] <Laney> lshw?
[19:39] <Laney> czajkowski: anyway you might want to try the #ubuntu-x guys
[19:40] <Laney> there was a similar sounding driver bug if you have intel
[19:40] <Azelphur> got a perfect little layer of acetone on top of the silver contact area, will leave it sitting for a bit
[19:40] <czajkowski> yes inten
[19:40] <czajkowski> cheers
[19:40] <Laney> let me see if I can find the bug I saw
[19:41] <Laney> czajkowski: heh, right at the top of the list. bug #966744
[19:42] <Laney> it's one of those monster bugs
[19:45] <oimon> bug 986676
[19:45] <oimon> :( there's a patch for canon EOS cameras (one of mostpopular) but patch isn't getting into libgphoto :(
[19:47] <hamitron> does unity work well with multi-monitors?
[19:47] <oimon> yes hamitron
[19:47] <hamitron> kk, just checking
[19:47] <oimon> better than most DEs i find
[19:47] <hamitron> I just recall someone in here saying about issues or something
[19:54] <ali1234> it depends how you want it to work
[19:55] <ali1234> it works about as well as it works with a single monitor :/
[19:55] <ali1234> all of the problems are design problems basically. technically it works fine, at least on nvidia
[19:56] <bootinfdsds> Ubuntu Uk podacst is on right now ::: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3
[19:56] <hamitron> if I was to use ubuntu with unity, on 1 monitor but using synergy.... is there any particular side I'd be best having it on?
[19:57] <hamitron> I got 3 monitors, so maybe 3 comps, each with a different OS is best
[19:58] <hamitron> suspect ubuntu would be best on the left screen
[20:02] <hamitron> ali1234, does unity rely on any edge of the screen?
[20:03] <hamitron> I can't remember how it even works
[20:04] <bootinfdsds> re you doing the podcast at the moment or is that someone else ??
[20:05] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Are you doing the podcast at the moment or is that someone else ??
[20:05] <AlanBell> that would be popey
[20:05] <bootinfdsds> Oh  Ok cool
[20:06] <christel>  g22
[20:06] <christel> er
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> christel: time for a new keyboard? :)
[20:07] <ali1234> hamitron: yes, sort of
[20:07] <ali1234> hamitron: depends how you configure it though
[20:07] <ali1234> it does have some option now
[20:07] <bootinfdsds> Anyone listening to the podcast ??
[20:08] <ali1234> there's a podcast?
[20:08] <bootinfdsds> searching ...
[20:09] <bootinfdsds> Enjoy ::: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3
[20:09] <christel> martijn silly touchscreen :)
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> christel: suure :)
[20:09] <christel> (on phone) hehe
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> christel: ♫ might as well face it you're addicted to irc
[20:11] <christel> haha I just can't stay away from you :(
[20:11] <bootinfdsds> nice song icon / character !
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> christel: awww :)
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> christel: you send people candy once.. ;)
[20:11] <christel> hehehe
[20:11] <christel> :p
[20:19] <bigcalm> Ello
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
[20:21] <christel> bc!
[20:21] <bigcalm> christeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel
[20:23] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, They are definately talking about you ..
[20:23]  * bootinfdsds listens to Alan's common sense.
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> they're always talking about AlanBell
[20:24] <bootinfdsds> I think it's recorded thou. :(
[20:27]  * AlanBell is *not* the wing commander
[20:29]  * bootinfdsds slides AlanBell a cool Redbull.
[20:31] <bigcalm> What have I been missing out on by doing work instead of IRC today?
[20:32] <hamitron> slacker
[20:32] <hamitron> ;)
[20:32] <bigcalm> I know
[20:33] <bigcalm> Feel bad about it
[21:07] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well everyone.
[21:08] <bigcalm> Night
[21:08] <brobostigon> nos da bigcalm o/
[21:19] <christel> nos da cariad ;)
[21:42]  * popey pokes christel with ROTINHYLAS in ##cooking
[21:44] <popey> nvm
[21:44] <Azelphur> popey: he visited ##hardware too, mass nick flood I guess?
[21:45] <popey> yes
[22:13] <ali1234> so how about an irc server where you have to pay a 1 BTC deposit to register?
[22:14] <ali1234> you can get it back if you unregister, like shopping trolleys
[22:14] <ali1234> would make mass nick spamming prohibitively expensive, but anyone can get bitcoins anon
[22:15] <hamitron> 1 btc is a lot
[22:15] <ali1234> ok, amount is open for discussion
[22:15] <hamitron> or maybe make you register on a website?
[22:16] <ali1234> that doesn't work
[22:16] <ali1234> we have that already
[22:16] <hamitron> even if it has checks in place?
[22:16] <ali1234> what kind of checks?
[22:16] <hamitron> "enter this code: blah bleh"
[22:16] <hamitron> kinda thing
[22:16] <ali1234> no, that's trivially defeated
[22:17] <hamitron> hmmm, ok
[22:17] <ali1234> again, we already have that
[22:17] <hamitron> verify by txt msg?
[22:17] <ali1234> that's not anonymous enough
[22:18] <ali1234> whatever is $1 in btc is probably enough
[22:18] <hamitron> 0.1 then
[22:18] <ali1234> how much does it cost to ban someone in terms of man hours? that's how much the deposit should be
[22:20] <ali1234> even if someone hacks your account - it's only a dollar. it's a lesson for you :)
[22:21] <ali1234> having it refundable may be a prblem if the operators get robbed
[22:21] <ali1234> so maybe it should just be a flat fee to make an account
[22:21] <ali1234> or reactivate after banning
[22:23] <hamitron> Code::Blocks or Orwell Dev-C++
[22:52] <dutchie> ali1234: the moment irc goes from "free" to "not free" is the moment a large number of users quit
[22:53] <ali1234> le them
[22:53] <dutchie> whether those users are worth keeping or not is the main point of debate :)
[22:53] <ali1234> plenty of free irc servers
[22:56] <Azelphur> ali1234: what would paying for a nickserv account actually accomplish?
[22:56] <ali1234> well it would be the only way to speak in any channels on the serve
[22:57] <ali1234> if you get banned, you lose your deposit
[22:57] <ali1234> the revenue from doing this can pay someone to sit and ban people full time
[22:58] <Azelphur> haha
[23:02] <ali1234> it's mainly trying to stop things like the guy spamming #bitcoin recently
[23:02] <ali1234> without requiring registration of real world identity
[23:03] <ali1234> even if someone has a botnet and can get unlimited bitcoins... if they try to spam, they just pay you to hire 100 guys to ban the bots all day
[23:04] <ali1234> this is different to the usual schemes which just require proof of work, because those can be defeated with a botnet, and the person getting attacked gets nothing
[23:05] <ali1234> anyway it's just an idea
[23:06] <ali1234> it has problems, like if the server op abuses the system
[23:06] <ali1234> but... free market, you know?
[23:06] <ali1234> *hand wave*